CONGRATS are owed to bush & the rightwingers on Iraq! Admit it, libs!

[LynnTheDem]

Remember in March, 2003, before the invasion, when bush stood in front of America and said these famous words:

"We must invade and occupy Iraq so that 50% of the Iraqi people can vote under occupation of a foreign army under martial law for unknown candidates with unknown platforms to select a group who will select a group of 3 who will next year select a president and executive staff who will set up whatever form of government they wish, including a theocracy or another Hussein-style dictatorship! That is democracy!"

And we libs, and the rest of the entire world, said no way. Yep, to our everlasting shame, we poo-pooed them.

Good thing bush & the rightwing didn't bother to listen to us fringe focus groups! No, they forged bravely ahead, the US, the UK and the Aussie governments! Even ignored the majorities of their own citizens who opposed the invasion of Iraq! Such courage! Such vision!

Oh and Poland for the oil sent 200 Polish troops.

Now bush and the rightwing have Mission Accomplished; Iraq was invaded, occupied, and now 50% of the people of Iraq will get to vote under occupation of a foreign army under martial law for unknown candidates with unknown platforms to select a group who will select a group of 3 who will next year select a president and executive staff who will set up whatever form of government they wish, including a theocracy or another Hussein-style dictatorship.

That is democracy. They were right. We were wrong.

So it's cost 1420 American men, women and teens their lives, and some 15,000 their limbs, and one hundred thousand Iraqis' lives, and $300 billion and world enmity so far. For the first 2 years, with at least another 2 years to go. But troops are fungible and they knew what they signed up for, we didn't need that money, and who cares what the world thinks anyways.

A very small price to pay indeed, for 50% of the people of Iraq to get to vote under occupation of a foreign army under martial law for unknown candidates with unknown platforms to select a group who will select a group of 3 who will next year select a president and executive staff who will set up whatever form of government they wish, including a theocracy or another Hussein-style dictatorship.

So CONGRATS to bush and the rightwing! You were right, we were all wrong!

And everything that Iraq is, and everything that Iraq becomes, is all due to bush & the rightwing.

[wtmusic]

1. LTD, what happened to your huge type?

kinda got used to it... :cry:

[LynnTheDem]

2. A poster very politely objected to it.

:eyes:

[knowbody0]

3. i miss it as well

your posts usually tickle the part of my mind that blocks the horrific reality of AMERIKA

[LynnTheDem]

7. Unfortunately, everything but the "bush speech" is 100% true and IS the

horrific reality of AMERIKA...AND for Iraq.

Which is why bush is so desperately playing up the total whopper of a lie (and a whopping lie that the rest of the world KNOWS is a lie and are mocking us for) that "it's just disgruntled little minority evil saddam-loyalist deadender Sunnis not voting and all the Shia are so eager to vote".

Because in fact none of that is true, and if the US majority wakes up to the fact that these "elections" really are only 50% of the people of Iraq able to vote under occupation of a foreign army under martial law for unknown candidates with unknown platforms to select a group who will select a group of 3 who will next year select a president and executive staff who will set up whatever form of government they wish, including a theocracy or another Hussein-style dictatorship, they will drag bush & his Cartel out of the White House by their balls.*

*special by request collector's edition of large font

[Gold Metal Flake]

4. Nicely done.

Now, how about we get some of these fundies to lay off the Zep and the Iron Maiden and give them some Blivet** speeches on vinyl to play backwards.

[Massacure]

5. Since you said so.

Congrats on the fuck up Bush.

[leesa]

6. What 50% is that? I don't get it?

[LynnTheDem]

8. There are "only 4 provinces" where there won't be any voting, too violent.

But those "only 4 provinces" include some 54% of the entire population of Iraq, including 3 of the 5 largest cities...including THE largest, and CAPITAL city, Baghdad, which alone has 25% of the entire population of Iraq.

So if ALL adult Iraqis turned out to vote who are ABLE to vote, that would be LESS THAN 50% of Iraqi adults in the entire country.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. At least you didn't forget Poland

n/t

[LynnTheDem]

10. And at least Poland admits it's The OIL, stupid!

Poland seeks Iraqi oil stake

Poland, which has sent troops to support the US-led forces in Iraq, has acknowledged its "ultimate objective" is to acquire supplies of Iraqi oil.

The Polish Foreign Minister, Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz, said his country had never disguised the fact that it sought direct access to the oilfields.

"We have never hidden our desire for Polish oil companies to finally have access to sources of commodities," Mr Cimoszewicz told the Polish PAP news agency.

Access to the oilfields "is our ultimate objective," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3043330.stm

Poland, of all countries, gung-ho for an invasion of a nation that had done nothing to anyone, to get hold of their resources...

How Hitler must be laughing.

[moodforaday]

14. A bit of perspective from Poland

Okay, here goes.

1) Cimoszewicz, the foreign minister, is actually one of the very few straight-talking and relatively honest politicos on the left here. He's been known for speaking out of turn though - like after a flood when a lot of people lost homes he said "It only goes to show you need to buy insurance." He was right of course, but he picked the wrong time to ride a high horse. But, like with the oil statement, you'd at least value the candor.

2) Before Poland was partitioned by Germany, Austria and Russia in the 18th century (only to regain independence after WW1), Poland was a much bigger country that we are now. Much bigger, check some old maps. A lot of people can't really get on with the program, so to speak. (We're now talking about leasing oil fields from Libya. Pure crazy hubris.)

3) The real reason we went to Iraq was to suck up to the US. We suck up to the US every chance we get, because we feel Europe has given us short shrift at least twice in recent history: once at the outset of WW2, when England and France didn't race to our rescue in 1939, and twice after the war, when all the West basically told Russians "you can keep Poland". Then, lots of Poles emigrated to the US in the 40s and 50s. The image of the US an average Pole has is that of the 1950s prosperity and opportunity. And the Hollywood thing. So there is a deeply entrenched distrust of Europe and trust in the US. For some reason a huge majority of Polish people are dead certain the US will come and rescue us if we are militarily attacked. Not that anyone wants to attack us militarily, but you know how delusions work.

So I would say it's not *really* about oil fields. It's about how we want to be Bush's friends. If there is some bitterness now in Poland, it's because we're not really seeing any profits (political or economic) from our stint in Iraq.

So we're a copuntry that was occupied for a hundred years by three foreign powers, then we went through WW2, and now we are participating in the occupation of a country half the world away. It's insane, of course. It's just that we "love" America and I guess want to prove that we're America's friends through thick and thin.

There is some opposition to the Iraq war in privately held media, though. I'm also pretty certain a lot of people instinctively know it's wrong to participate in this. Polls indicate a large majority is against our presence in Iraq. The same polls show we adore Bush, though. Make of it what you will. Myself, I'm *very* unhappy.

[Djinn]

11. I'd just add one thing

A very small price to pay indeed, for 50% of the people of Iraq to get to vote under occupation of a foreign army under martial law for unknown candidates with unknown platforms to select a group who will select a group of 3 who will next year select a president and executive staff who will set up whatever form of government they wish, including a theocracy or another Hussein-style dictatorship.

perfectly stated but I'd add that even those "elected" puppets can't change certain laws put in place by the US to prevent Iraqi's actually getting benefit from their resources.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Djinn]

13. I think you need to check your definitions

there's direct democracy, representative democracy, liberal democracy etc etc.

I actually DON"T live in a representational constitutional republic, but if you think that can not mean a democracy then you need to read up some more

Besides which your post in kind of irrelevant, we're not talking about the US but Iraq - the point of the war was to bring "freedom" and "democracy" atleast it was once they realised the WMD story wasn't gonna fly - so why does this election guarantee a puppet govt??

[0rganism]

15. Get it straight: we are a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY at all levels of gov't

Look up the goddam definition before you come here to spread that bullshit meme. Democracy, aside from its obvious connotations of a VOTING PUBLIC, also indicates a degree of personal liberty which allows for things like a free press, some recognition of the importance of human rights, and so on.

de·moc·ra·cy
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

You're obsessed with #4 to the exclusion of 1, 2, 3, and 5. Get over it.

As for "republic", it basically applies to any non-monarchial country with a constitution or static body of law, regardless of how the government is formed. Those "socialist" countries you sneer at may also call themselves, quite rightly, "republics".

re·pub·lic
n.
1. a. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
2. a. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.

Yes, we live in a republic, and we also (and much more descriptively) live in a democracy.
(edited for emphasis)

[rowire]

16. Damn Your Subject Lines!

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