SwiftBoatLiars; why are republicans so much more STUPID nowadays???

[LynnTheDem]

30-some years ago, when the facts were still fresh, when O'Neill was hired by Nixon to smear Kerry -a man O'Neill had never met, never served with- Americans knew O'Neill was total complete bullshit & laughed him out of town. Dems AND REPUBLICANS.

30-some years later, bush hires O'Neill to smear Kerry, using the SAME LIES he'd used 3 decades ago, a man who had NEVER served with Kerry, who had NEVER MET Kerry until Nixon hired him to do his failed hatchet job.

And the rightwingnuts swallowed every single lie.

Well, much as I hate saying this, except for O'Reilly. He knew the SB Liars were nothing but liars and said so.

NONE of the SwiftBoatLiars ever served 1 second with Kerry, except for the one liar who served ONE DAY on a separate boat, whose crewmates all backed Kerry up, and who when his own file was released thru FOIA, was proved in fact a liar.

NO ONE else in the handful of SBLiars ever served one single second within sight or sound of Kerry...yet we all know who the morans believe.

Are they inbreeding too much? Draining the genetic swamp?

30-some years ago conservatives were so much smarter.

[shoelace414]

1. It's more important to be loyal than be right.

[blm]

2. You mean more important to be loyal and well-paid than truthful.

.

[LynnTheDem]

4. It's more than that; they Truly Believe.

If the facts were explained to a 6 year old child, the child would come to the correct conclusion; SBLs are liars.

The same conclusion conservatives came to 30+ years ago; now, 30+ years later with the exact same lies, and they swallow it whole.

What is causing this mental degradation of the right??? It isn't Faux Moos, they don't even have the viewership New York City's local news channel does, let alone the networks.

Sure wish some experts would look into it, because no doubt, they ARE getting stupider by the year. I'd love to know WHY.

[shoelace414]

8. It's also the hammering about how

the media is liberal, so if they hear anything against what they want to believe, then they just ignore it and chalk it up to the liberal bias.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. You're on the money

I used to go to this debate board and everytime I would post news or something on everything going on and it didn't go along with what Bush and his people were saying she'd say something about the media being liberal and biased and of course I just laughed my ass off at her.

[Hugin]

3. Itz awl dat hoemskool'n ... n/t

[glitch]

5. brain shrinkage from cocaine abuse in the 80s. The repukes were the

only ones who could afford snorting enough to do brain damage.
And they did.
Or, it's the prescription sleep meds like Ambien that cause them to lose REM sleep and thus a good part of their short term memory and analytic abiities.
Or, they all have early stage mad cow, often misdiagnosed as alzheimers.
Or, they don't really believe the swift boat liars either, but Bush promises the best chance for their greed to be sated at some point.
Or, the repuke attacks on the public school system has been successful and they are in fact less intelligent.
Or, the repuke investment in tv media has paid off and the brainwashing done there is successful.
Or, all of the above.

Let's all go back to the feudal state! That way, when they hole up in their castles we can lock them in and get back to business.
Problem solved.

[Toots]

6. I really don't think they made one bit of difference

Those solidly in the GOP corner were never going to vote for Kerry with or without the swift boat liars. I personally believe the game is rigged and Kerry never stood a chance anyway. I have lost all faith in the credibility of the USA and it is completely because of Bush* and his cabal. I have always known that politicians will say whatever they think is needed to get elected and that is the way it has always been but I still had faith in America as a whole. After the Supreme Court put Bush* into power and nobody did anything I lost that faith. Elections are now nothing but show. It has all been pre-ordained who will be "elected".

[CrispyQ]

10. Will you vote again?

Just curious, cuz feeling like you do, I've been asking myself the same question.

[Toots]

32. I have been mulling that one over quite a bit

I think I will continue to vote yes. I think it is because I have been brought up to believe voting is not just a right but an obligation. I will no longer stay up election night to veiw the results though.

[LynnTheDem]

12. I agree, the SBLs made no difference imo

But the SBLs did demonstrate the total lack of reasoning ability of the rightwingnuttery.

Regardless how many times the lies were pointed out and proved to be lies, doesn't matter. After someone has been caught out telling multiple lies, these rightwingnuts just continue to believe the liar!

Point out that in fact SBL X, Y and Z never served one single second within sight of Kerry, and the rightwingnuts say "so???" Well ummm gee...so HTF would they know anything about Kerry then, you incredibly stupid MFers!

And they look at you blankly and continue to chant the lies from these SBLs who never spent one single second with Kerry in their entire lives! :wow:

Mentally handicapped, that's all I can figure.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Swifties and fundies are just cover --

so that no one will look at the fraud.

[NewJeffCT]

26. I disagree - SBLs made a huge difference

Soon after the the cable news channels start going 24/7 on the SBLs, Kerry's support among the military plunged...

And, I know quite a few people that disliked Bush, but voted for him as the lesser of two evils due to Kerry: 1) being a flip-flopper, 2) the SBLs and 3) Kerry being weak on defense.

[LynnTheDem]

27. Ever wonder why bush refuses to announce what the military polling

results were? ;)

[FreedomAngel82]

44. I saw three military outcomes

sometime a while go. I don't have it anymore but I do remember two out of three groups voted for Kerry. I haven't heard anything on the military voting either. If W did win wouldn't he be shouting it from the mountain tops?

[geniph]

40. What the SBLs did was to put Kerry on the defensive

The tactics were effective, not because of anything in particular they said that people believed or disbelieved (I think the people who already disliked Kerry continued to do so, and his supporters continued to support him despite the SBLs). What they did was to FRAME THE DEBATE and keep the topic on Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam, instead of allowing Kerry to outline his plan for the future and talk about his experience on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

It forced him on the defensive and kept him from going strongly on the offense. In that, it was very effective indeed.

[fooj]

7. I think this new found "stupidity" stems from their arrogant belief that

they are completely above the law! They are all so damn full of themselves it's disgusting! However, that is often when the powerful screw up! We can only hope!

[AnnInLa]

9. Can recommend that you read

the book, What's the Matter With Kansas? It gives some interesting perspectives into the answer to your question.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Thanks, Ann,

I'll see if our library has that. :)

[tom_paine]

11. We are ALL "stupider" today, not just the Busheviks

Although they have purposefully been mind-enslaved by the propaganda infrastructure I like to call Goebbels v2.0

Stupidity or intelligence has very little to do with gullibility. My personal view is that intelligence may be a small ward to gullibility, but as human being, smart and stupid, we ALL share the characterstics (to some degree or another) of "Unquestioning Obedience to Fuhrer", of "Scapegoating the Other" of "I refuse to accept that I have been lied to because it would be to painful and would forece me to acknowledge I have been a fool" and so many others.

Finally, convincing yourself of demonstrable lies and ignoring contrary facts out of selfish self-interest is nothing new and NOT limited to Busheviks.

It just seems that way because they have harnessed all these negative characteristics in to One Fabulous Marketing Plan in which the product to be sold is Orwellian Tyranny.

[LynnTheDem]

13. I still think "stupider" is stupid.

I know, living language etc etc but "more stupid" still sounds better imo than "stupider" :D

I didn't say that well, lol! I used "stupider" in my OP, so don't want you to think I'm commenting on your using it; it just still looks wrong to me to see the word, lol!


I agree with what you're saying, but I still feel the SBLs brought out something more than the usual level of partisanship etc from many rightwingnuts. It really seemed more like mental retardation.

I mean the civilians, not talking head pundits.

[tom_paine]

14. I mean "civilians", too

I maintain the reason we lost the Old Republic was becuase we had stopped deserving freedom decades ago and it's just finally catching up with us now.

[LynnTheDem]

16. But how come we don't swallow the BS???

If SBLiars came out lying about bush, and if their lies were pointed out and the illogic pointed out, we would call them liars. Why can we see it even when it's our side lying, and they can't?

[tom_paine]

18. ANYONE can fall victim to sophisticated propaganda

Let me tellyou, up until I was jarred awake by the eath of the Old Republic, it affected me, too.

Oh, not in the crazy Nazi-like way it shuts down Bushevik minds and replaces their ids with "Unquestioning Fuhrer Worship" but in other ways.

If I look back to the Last Days of the Old Republic and remember which of the lying "conventional wisodms" that Bushevik Sub-Media Reichspravda created in the 80s and 90s, the list would be fairly long.

I still remember in October 2000, saying to a Bushevik Dupe, "Yeah, the media is sort of liberal."

None of us are immune, and Goebbels v2.0 is the most sophisticated, successfully designed Propaganda Infrastructure in Human History.

hell, even now that I am awake and aware, the poison STILL slips through.

Powerful. 10X more powerful than Hitler's version or Stalin's.

[LynnTheDem]

22. You're right.

I think I'm really...hmmm what word? Hubby says "tell them the truth...NOSEY!" LOL!

I question everything, I mean I'm terrible that way, drives ppl nuts. So I get most the poison screened out but yeah it does slip thru now & then.

I really love FACT and TRUTH. I just cannot understand why anyone would lie (other than "no you don't look fat" etc) or prefer not to know the facts.

But anyhoo, yet when you rationally point out things to rightwingnuts, they refuse point-blank to accept it. If I point out to you that in fact you have your hand sitting on a hot stove element, you'd remove your hand; rightwingnuts would argue that no they do not have their hand on a hot stove element...while their flesh cooks!

TRUTH is just TRUTH, yet it's the Enemy to them, it seems.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. The Repub Strategy Has Been To Appeal To The Least & Dimmest

The leadership isn't any stupider. But, the strategy of the right, since the mid-70's, is to find issues that would appeal to the least informed, least educated and least intelligent among us. So, the people to whom they appeal are dim-bulbs, and they just aren't well enough informed, or too insular, to see the truth when it lands on them. They've got their minds made up and don't WANT to know facts, and don't WANT to have to think things over.

The Repubs like it that way, because such people are easily fooled, easily led, and easily influenced.
The Professor

[LynnTheDem]

17. Hmm that makes sense. And explains why they'd vote AGAINST their own

best interests.

I've actually heard -I kid you not!- rightwingnuts chant about how the rich shouldn't have to pay more taxes than the poor!

And these were barely above poverty level rightwingnuts!

The little girl that had her intestines sucked out by the faulty pool; they bitch about her family's lawyer getting a high settlement, not thinking that it was the JURY who decided that, that in fact it's the lawyer's duty to try for the most or he can be disbarred & even go to jail, if he doesn't, and that the poor CORPORATIONS shouldn't have to pay out their hard-earned cash.

It's insane. Just so insane!

[tom_paine]

19. I partially agree, but then why are so many Busheviks intelligent

Not all of them are dumb as rocks, even the Sturmtruppen.

I would argue that intelligence has nothing to do with gullibillity or the very human characteristic of believing one's own lies for the cause of selfish self-interest.

You are partially right, but the situation is more complex than that, IMHO. So many other negative market-tested human characteristics are involved here, not just stupidity.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. Then We'll Agree To Disagree

The leadership is less bright than they think they are, but they are the smartest of a stupid bunch. The other dynamics are even uglier than stupidity. There's willful ignorance, there's bigotry and racism, there's greed and stinginess.

But, unless you're already rich, greed and stinginess are small elements. Voting against one's own best interest is rooted in ignorance and bigotry. The market tests to which you refer need to be more complex than that. Occam's Razor!
The Professor

[stanwyck]

20. they really ARE dumber, here's why

they don't get the other side. We're so polarized now, that people seek out "news" (for too many, that's hate-radio) that only reinforces their calcified views. There is no objective, rational and factual information for many. They listen to Sean or Bill or Rush and believe they're informed. They're not. Ask them who Armstrong Williams is. They won't know. Ask them who The Carlyle Group is. They won't know. Ask them about Virginia Plame. Again. Nothing. Meanwhile, they don't read (except Coulter or rightwing columns paid for (with our tax money) by the Bushies). And they don't watch legitimate news on TV. Just Faux. So, yes, they're dumber. Because they're only getting the slice the Bushies want to feed them.

[LynnTheDem]

25. Did you see that recent PIPA survey?

Where out of 8 issues, rightwingnuts only correctly knew bush's position on ONE of them???

And they still think Iraq did 911, had WMD, we've found WMD, the world supported the invasion, etc etc etc.

What are WE reading and watching that THEY are not??????!!

Found the PIPA and it's just incredible! The majority of bush supporters were wrong on every issue; the majority of Kerry supporters were correct on every issue. What gives???!!

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

[tom_paine]

28. You know a similar survey taken in 1934 Germany (if it had been allowed)

would have had identical results

Hitler supporters: Living in an alternate Party-Defined Reality in which concrete facts have no place... only the pronouncements of the Goldy and Noble Fuhrer as well as Nazi-Loyal Sub-Media.

Bush supporters: Living in an alternate Party-Defined Reality in which concrete facts have no place... only the pronouncements of the Goldy and Noble Emperor as well as Bush-Loyal Sub-Media.

Some things never change.

[LynnTheDem]

29. I believe it! But WHY???

I mean why is it this way???

I just don't understand it. WE know the facts...how the HELL can so many bush supporters NOT know the facts???

And it isn't just bush's lying; bush did publicly say Iraq had nothing to do with 911. They don't even listen to him!

[tom_paine]

33. The answer to that is as old as human history

Not only has all this happened before, but it has happened in so many times and so many places it is nearly a constant in the struggle of freedom vs. tyranny.

A poor answer I know, but that is the best I can come up with.

It is hardwired into human nature. Some of us want to be free, some want to lick the boot of their master and Know their Place. You have to admit it is pretty easy to shut your brain off and just OBEY the Party.

There is no why,a nd in the end this characteristic may be the defining one of humanity, as we head off into the sunset of Failed Species in the Milky Way Galaxy.

[LynnTheDem]

34. It's not easy for me, that's my problem, lol!

I always gotta know they whys and hows and whatfors (last night I spent an hour wondering how deaf people think. When hearing people think, we hear the words coz we know how the words sound. Do the deaf think in sign language?)

So for me it's not easy to just go along.

But still I mean this is ridiculous! SAME COUNTRY and the majority of K supporters know the facts while the b supporters don't? That's just so insane, imo, and something's seriously wrong.

I WANNA KNOW WHY in a clear-cut precise answer dammit!!! LOL!!! :D :D :D (Thank God you're not the poor sucker married to me, huh! :D)

[stanwyck]

35. it's fear

that has been carefully manipulated by the rightwing. They've been working on creating this for decades. They used to use direct mail. Now, it's radio and TV, too. Every fear, of minorities (except the hand selected "non-scary" ones), women (except for the compliant, submissive ones), people of other religions, and especially, "intellectuals", who might open up minds and cost them their base. Fear of "the other". They're the ones keeping you back. Keeping you from making big money. Keeping you from having a happy marriage. Keeping you from the American dream.
Rush and Sean and Bill all understand how to keep their people listening to them. And only them. Listen to their words. It's all about "the other".
Us.

[tsuki]

53. Sidebar. Son had a study group in college that met a the house.

He and the others were repeating the material over and over. When the group left, I asked Son what it was about. Usually the group was a lively discussion, q&a about material they had read.

He informed me that the new member was an audio learner, could not comprehend what she read. So they had to explain the book to her over and over until she "got" it.

She did not last long at college, but has anyone else heard of "auditory" learners? I always meant to look it up. Son says it is not infrequent.

[Demeter]

23. Darwin's Revenge!

[leftofthedial]

24. because they want to believe

the truth has no power over them

[noonwitch]

31. Too much inbreeding

Just a guess.

[mark414]

37. "facts are stupid things"

we can thank ronnie for all of this

[stanwyck]

38. Yes! Ronnie made so much of this happen

He allowed our airwaves to get overrun with corporate whores who spout only rightwing infommercials -- no more equal time. And he made being uninformed and folksy "presidential".
He set the bar so low, even GWB could make the cut.

[mark414]

41. yeah i hate ronnie more

as far as presidents go, georgie pordgie is much worse, but we need to remember that he probably wouldn't have even been governor if it wasn't for the gipper

[JoshK]

39. It's mainly due to the rightwing takeover of the media.

Once a society permits propaganda to replace all attempt at conveying an objective picture of the world, the population is trapped, & has little chance to formulate valid conclusions.

[bobbieinok]

46. 1 message 24/7....people watch FAUX, CNN, one network, listen to Rush

(for 'humor') and one other RW talk show, read home town newspaper and consider themselves very well informed......they have no idea how very little actual info they have been presented

it would never occur to them to read the guardian or the BBC online.....they don't even know that's possible

most have not kept up with technology and think 'news' today is what it was 30-40 years ago

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Did OReilly

really say that the SBV people were liars??!!! I think I'm going to faint.

[Radical Activist]

45. The worst part is that the media kept discussing their allegations

and treated them like a legitimate group even after they had been completely discredited over and over again. That is the difference today.

[bobbieinok]

48. if all you listened to was RW radio and cable news, you did NOT know

they had been discredited......just that the 'liberal media' had lied and tried to discredit these noble patriots

[deacon]

49. Rove needed a compliant media to get bush reelected, he got one

Now we learn they pay people off. We need a special prosecutor and 60 to investigate bush.

[rfkrfk]

47. Christmas in Cambodia, what were the final arguements?

How did that, turn out?

[LynnTheDem]

50. Kerry was in Cambodia.

As O'Neill had been (not together and not at the same time; Kerry was back in the USA before O'Neill was sent to 'Nam). Of course O'Neill kept insisting that he KNEW Kerry had never been in Cambodia -event ho he didn't even know Kerry existed until AFTER he was out of Vietnam & hired by Nixon- because NO SOLDIERS had been into Cambodia.

O'NEILL: How do I know he's not in Cambodia? I was on the same river, George. I was there two months after him. Our patrol area ran to Sedek, it was 50 miles from Cambodia. There isn't any watery border.

And then new Nixon tapes were released. Including one of Nixon being told about the soldiers' forays into Cambodia. As told to Nixon by...O'Neill...who is on the tape telling Nixon all about O'Neill's forays into...Cambodia.

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

NIXON: In a swift boat?

O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

heh :D

It is fact that Kerry WAS in Cambodia several times between January and February, 1969, on clandestine missions. Absolute fact.

The SBLiars say but he wasn't there 2 weeks before then.

Kerry & his crew were at least within 40 miles of Cambodia the night of Dec. 24, 1969 and were earlier that day on the Cambodian border; and there's apparently an article that'll be coming out that shows in fact Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.

After O'Neill was caught out in 17 lies (repeated numerously with various variations), it's amusing to see how the rightwingnuts still believe anything he says. Even small children learn faster than that.

[rfkrfk]

51. Kerry should have spoken, on this matter

Gibberish from a biographer, is not enough.
Kerry should have spoke for himself.

[LynnTheDem]

52. I totally agree! His "advisors" told him not to

That it would just distract from getting his message out...which was exactly bushCartel's plan when they hired Liar O'Neill; distract so Kerry's message and the facts of bush wouldn't be heard.

[tsuki]

54. Here, where we have a lot of retired military, they were the ones

that bought into the GravyBoaters. Like Bud Day and the like. They disrupted Democratic meetings about it. It was the single most important issue in the campaign.

Sometimes I wondered if the election, to them, was not more about Viet-Nam. How if they had been given more time, more money, more men, they would have been able to "beat" the commies.

It was almost like they wanted to redeem Viet-Nam, and they were going to do so with Iraq. And they weren't going to let any bunch of left wing hippies tell them this time.

It may sound weird, but those are my impressions.