I'm getting sucked in..The joy the Iraqi expats show is infectious

[DianeG5385]

I hate the war and the slaughter, but it's hard not to feel for the Iraqi people who are smart, well educated and urbane, voting to take their country back. I hope they win, the Iraqi people that is. Then, I want them to kick the Americans out and rename their country to Mesopotamia! "Iraq" is a British concoction from their time as occupiers. I will cry with joy if they can pull it off and NOT be American puppets!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[candle_bright]

15. That's harsh

I went to college with 2 Iraqi sisters. Their family fled Iraq when they were little because their father got on Saddam's shit list for some fairly minor "offense."

I guess they should have stayed there and been slaughtered, eh? Sorry, but I think your position is offensive.

[ComerPerro]

18. Or maybe they would have been slaughtered by a liberating army

Perhaps in a raid, looking for terrorists.

Besides, why didn't they go straight back to Iraq in May of 2003. After all, the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?

Or perhaps last December after Saddam was captured. I don't think they would be in any danger.

After all, if things are so great and the freedom is spreading to all corners, why are the expats still here in the US?

[candle_bright]

19. Excuse me...

but it isn't your place to tell people where to live. Considering by 2003 they had lived in the U.S. for about 20 years, it's reasonable to believe they have roots here now.

I think your condemnation of Iraqi expats is unjust. They are free to live where they choose, for their own reasons. I certainly don't think it's any of MY business...

[ComerPerro]

22. So why would they vote?

If they have roots here, are US citizens here, and are voting in our electoins and contributing to our society (which is great, this isn't about immigration or race), why would they vote in Iraq?

If they have no interest in returning to Iraq and consider themselves Americans (as would be reasonably expected, having lived in our great nation for 20 years) why would they vote in the Iraqi election?

[candle_bright]

24. You don't know them

or if they are voting or not. You don't even know if they are U.S. citizens. You also don't know if they plan to ever return to Iraq.

I took issue with you saying "fuck Iraqi expats." You made a blanket statement, condemning all Iraqis who no longer reside in Iraq. Why stop at just Iraqis? If you want to be fair, condemn anyone living outside his/her country of birth.

[ComerPerro]

31. I don't know if they are voting

My issue is with Iraqi expats who claim to love their country but are doing nothing to help it. Oh, besides voting, I guess.

Of course, I don't know these people. I don't even know if they exist.

My blanket statement is that it is wrong to claim a cause that you have no interest in defending or working for.

[mitchum]

34. Their insistence on "something must be done (by someone else)"...

makes them resemble Cuban expats, doesn't it?

[XanaDUer]

42. Yes it does, doesn't it?

n/t.

[LynnTheDem]

54. Comer, do a search

by author. You're wasting your...not breath, I guess it's your "type", lol.

[ebayfool]

60. That search led to a thread that just convinced me @ another thread on ...

voter ID cards on another forum, TY. (I see your point, BTW!)

[Heyo]

41. Well..

"Perhaps in a raid, looking for terrorists.

Besides, why didn't they go straight back to Iraq in May of 2003. After all, the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?"

Because it's a lot smarter to wait until the violence chills out, if they plan on going back.

Heyo

[LynnTheDem]

51. You sure know a lot of Iraqis.

Every time someone posts, you have another "Iraqis you know personally" story.

Interesting.

[Stirk]

16. Exactly.

[renegade000]

25. jeez...way to write off every expat in the world...

eom

[Telly Savalas]

38. So should Democrats Abroad close up shop?

[DS1]

2. Who called it Mesopotamia in the first place?

That's my question.

[maxudargo]

3. I think "Mesopotamia" is Greek

So, I don't think it's any more the authentic, local name for the place than Iraq.

[MADem]

4. Wouldn't it be nice

...but I foresee a different result. I think that Chalabi and his Persian pals have plans for the Southern Union, the Kurds have an agenda that will either include Kirkuk or bloodshed, and the leftover chunk, the Ba'athist-infected Sunni triangle and the remaining wastelands, will bitch, moan and blow shit up from now until the cows come home!!!

I think the only possible positive result would be three semi-autonomous states under a federation. It's like Yugoslavia--once Tito bit the bullet, and there was no strongman, the place fractured like a jelly jar hitting the concrete floor.

Wish I could be more optimistic, but between the Persians to the east and the Turks to the north, who want to protect the Turkoman population while at the same time suppress the nationalistic hopes of the Kurds (because they have a HUGE Kurdish problem, that we conveniently ignore because they are allies), even ignoring the "insurgents", the foreign "troublemakers" and all of the other disaffected folks from the dictatorships in the surrounding region, all I can see is trouble ahead.

Unless, of course, the ballots have already been counted, and we put OUR strongman in charge. That buys us a year or so to get the hell out of there and find another source of black gold to take over.

[maxudargo]

8. All these deaths

And I think what we will accomplish in the end is expanding Iran's sphere of influence. That's what our soldiers are over there fighting and dying for.

[maxudargo]

5. You know, it's easy to get excited about the Iraqi elections

if you don't live in Iraq. Do you follow any of the Iraqi bloggers? Zayed of Healing Iraq left the country a few days ago and won't be returning until after the election. Riverbend of Baghdad Burning is hunkering down with her family waiting for it to be over.

But if you're an Iraqi expat sitting in the United States or United Kingdom, it must be really wonderful to see.

[Taxloss]

10. The turnout is low in the UK.

There was a BBC story; if you want I'll dig up the link. So no queues at polling stations. Nothing like it.

And what about the expats in other countries? Iran and Turkey for instance?

[Spazito]

6. They will not get their country back regardless of their...

vote. What they will get, unless they throw out the US by force, is the right to have their resources sold off, the right to work for US corporations and the right to be a jumping off country for the US/PNAC plans to "stabilize" the middle east. Some rights, eh!

[Karenina]

49. And the right

to pay Monsato EVERY YEAR for GM seeds to grow in their radioactive soil
or STARVE...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3027306

[JNelson6563]

7. Oh yes!! I am so happy

for those well-heeled folks I've been seeing on TV voting in Iraqi elections! They are so joyous that they get to vote now!

Of course nevermind that it is their countrymen who are getting slaughtered in wholesale numbers by us and our "allies", THEY are far away, doing well and it's all good.

In other words, I am hard pressed to think of a more blatant "I've got mine tough shit for you" demostration in my life. If those people had an ounce of principle they'd boycott the election instead of willingly playing cheerleader to our imperialist efforts.

You feel joy when you see this display, I feel disdain for this bunch of sell-outs who love their country so, when they aren't in it.

Julie

[ComerPerro]

9. Exactly

And, this whole thing is a sham.

One, I don't care what anyone says. Bush doesn't care about the Iraqi people, and I can't think of a single conservative I know (or have heard on TV, radio, etc) that, while being excited about the elections and supposedly wanting democracy for the Iraqi people, wasn't ready to kill every single one of them three months ago.

Its all a bunch of self-righteous bullshit. This was never about spreading freedom and democracy. People only say that now because it makes them feel better about themselves. It also helps them demonize opponents of this invasion.

No one can tell me that Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh were so worried about the plight of the Iraqis that they thought we needed to get Saddam out. If that were the case, why did they sell it using 9/11 and nonexistant WMDs? Why didn't they support Clinton and his UN approved bombings (which killed no American soldiers)? Why did they say he was Wagging the Dog?

And, these expats can go to hell. They were rich enough to run and hide, and now they get tears in their eyes because, at long last, they can vote safely and in front of the cameras in New York or Los Angeles?

To hell with them.

You summed it up perfectly:

In other words, I am hard pressed to think of a more blatant "I've got mine tough shit for you" demostration in my life.

[LynnTheDem]

56. bushCartel and RW pundits are only "happy for the Iraqis" as a means of

justifying for bush's total f*ck-up and war criminal invasion & occupation.

If they had no photos of "Iraqi ex-pats" (many of whom have never set a foot in Iraq ever) to use to apologize for their bush-god, they'd be busy calling for the glass parking lot scenario.

[MADem]

14. Some of those happy Iraqis

...are dual citizens, who also voted for the weecowboy. Their joy has as much to do with future business opportunities if this hideous experiment succeeds as anything else.

It is easy for these people to get excited and happy when the bombs aren't falling outside their door, and they've managed to get a big chunk of their family out of harm's way, I guess.

But the truth of the matter is, most expats ARE boycotting the election. A lot of them didn't want to have to travel long distances, first to register to vote, then to go and actually vote. The information regarding the election was damn near classified, they delayed in telling people where they could go to register, to vote, and they didn't release the candidates' names until way late in the game. Those who have satellite/Arab cable got more information than we are getting, but how can you make an informed decision when your access to what is going on is coming through a filter, and you aren't dealing with day-to-day, all-politics-is-local issues.

I read that only about ten or eleven percent of eligible expats actually bothered to vote.

[Nile]

21. Their countrymen are getting slaughtered by their countrymen.

Middle easterners are killing middle easterners far more that "us and our allies" are killing them and have been for some time now. Just who do you think is doing all of the suicide bombing in that area?

[Ms. Clio]

30. Sy Hersh says that bombing continues, constantly

He also says that most of the country is basically a free fire zone.

Since the last credible estimate of Iraqi deaths was 100,000, I think it's quite clear who is killing the most IRAQIS, not "middle easterners."

I don't even know why you would use such a term. Bizarre.

[jmatthan]

32. You are wrong

There have been two threads in DU which showed the BBC figures ofwho killed whom in Iraq. During the last six montths coalition forces killed more innocent Iraqi civilians than the Iraqi Resistance. As far as I can remember it was more than double!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[clem_c_rock]

46. Another DUer falls under the CNN prapaganda machine

Ever notice when a colonialist country invades another, they somehow manage to make their public believe the people whose country is being colonized are a bunch of dumb savages that need to be invaded for their own good?

Since you're one of those folks, why don't you run off to boot camp and help fight the Iraqi savages.

[JNelson6563]

63. Really?

Let's talk about the sactions we imposed on them for years. Let us talk about all the weapons we sold to Iraq when they were at war with I ran. Then, let us talk about how we stirred up that uprising at the end of Gulf War I and promised those in the north, "Yeah, you start uprising and we'll be right there with our jets". They rise up and look to the skies to see......nothing. We didn't come as promised and we left 'em there to face Saddam on their own. But at least the mass graves created from that debacle have helped the trained chimp's propaganda machine that you apparently feed at.

PM your addy and I'll send you a gift certificate to the clue store.

Julie

[hangemhigh]

47. My thoughts exactly.

:mad:

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. They shouldn't be allowed to vote in their ex country's election period.

I don't believe I'm allowed to participate in Ireland's political process. This whole thing blows me away. That and the fact that they get three days to vote.

[dsc]

13. Did you directly emmigrate from Ireland?

There are literally millions of ex pat US citizens who routinely vote in US elections.

[MADem]

17. If you (still???) hold an Irish passport

...vote away!

The trick to maintaining dual citizenship is to never screw up your passports. ALWAYS ENTER AND LEAVE the US ON YOUR AMERICAN PASSPORT, and ALWAYS ENTER AND LEAVE the OTHER country on the other country passport. So long as you don't hose that up, you can maintain your dual status.

[glitch]

12. They probably believe the U.S. elections are legitimate too.

Apparently, ignorance really is bliss.

[Dylan Garcia]

20. I'm not getting sucked in by this media circus called an election

A sham election is a sham election. I've grown tired of seeing them.

[leesa]

23. Ummm...the vote is completely rigged by the US.

The US must be thrown out first, and then maybe they can elect who they will.

[K-W]

26. Can you grab me some magic beans while you are in fantasy land.

I'm fresh out.

This is a mockery of an election being forced on the country by illegal occupiers. The fact that the Iraqi expatriot community likes it is neither suprising, notable, or hopeful.

If you think that there is even a remote possibility that anyone the US let on this ballot or near the government would EVER ask for us to leave before we wanted tehm to, you are dreaming.

[July]

57. Thanks, K-W, you gave me my first hearty laugh of the day w/your headline.

Completely agree with the rest of your post.

[Mz Pip]

27. I want them to get

their country back, too. I can't understand the contempt in this thread. What is wrong with wanting the best for a country that has been in such a mess for such a long time?

Whether or not they can pull this off without being American puppets is questionable. There is the Law of Unintended Consequences that could come into play here. Maybe in spite of the US they will at some point be successful. How could that not be a good thing?

Mz Pip
:dem:

[SmokingJacket]

28. If they could "pull it off and not be American puppets" it would

be wonderful.

Somehow I'm not convinced that will be allowed. If we are asked to leave and we do, how will Bushco have benefited?

Call me cynical, but nothing the Bushies have done yet has turned out well.

[K-W]

29. We would just overthrow them like we did Saddam

when he refused to be an American puppet.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

33. To avoid getting "sucked in"

Look at it this way. You are seeing, possibly, the joy of a man who plans to go back and rape his Sunni neighbor's hot sister after denouncing her brother to the religious police.

[TheWatcher]

35. Color me cynical

But after seeing EVERYTHING the US has done in Iraq, after seeing the way our leaders have behaved the past four years, after the rigged elections in our own country, after going to war based on lies, after EVERYTHING we have seen from this administration, I cannot for the life of me dream how anyone could even REMOTELY view what is going on in Iraq this weekend as anything more than the sham and Dog and Pony Show that it is.

Here is a dose of reality. If you think the criminals in charge here are going to allow anything even remotely resembling a free election in that country, or truly allow an iraqi Governemnt to emerge that is really of THEIR choosing, and that does not serve the interests of the Puppet Masters, you are in a dangerous denial you need to recover from.

Why in the world would our government in it's current form do or allow ANYTHING to happen that is actually benefical or good for ANYONE except themselves?

Think about what you've seen the past four years. THINK. Think about what Bush and this cadre of criminals has done. Think about the election in your own country. YOUR vote doesn't even count HERE. THINK. And then try and convince yourself this is a real election

[alfredo]

36. I think they are happy because the believe they will get their country

back from the US. I don't think bush will want to give up the oil and the bases. The PNAC spelled out their reason for conquering Iraq (pg 14 Protecting America's Defenses), and that was to secure a military foothold in the region. This was to be their first stop in their quest for world domination.

[JoshK]

37. To avoid being deluded, turn off your TV and read Dahr Jamail

or some reliable reporter of what is actually going on.

The Iraqi "election" has nothing whatever to do with people "taking back their country." It is a rigged show, designed to consolidate US power via the installation of a puppet regime.

[FlemingsGhost]

39. While these pawns mug for the cameras ...

Iraqis pay with their lives.

Oh, joy ...

[Redleg]

40. Should they even be permitted to vote if they are not intending

to live in Iraq?

[Tinoire]

43. Get over it quick. There are no joyous throngs swarming around.

There are no joyous throngs swarming the streets of Baghdad.

"Iraqi people who are smart, well educated and urbane" as opposed to what? Iraqi people who are stupid, illiterate and coarse?

Voting to take their country back?

The Iraqi people have already lost. There's no joy over there and their national resources have already been sold to the highest foreign bidders.

The only Iraqis dancing for joy are Vichy collaborators who couldn't care less about their fellow countrymen.

==
Let me describe the scene on the ground here in “liberated” Iraq.

(snip)

Policemen and Iraqi soldiers are trying to convince people to stay in the city and vote.

Nobody is listening to them.

Whereas Baghdad is filled with Fallujah refugees, now villages and smaller cities on the outskirts of Baghdad are filling up with election refugees.

(snip)

“They can block the whole city and people cannot move,” says a man speaking to me on condition of anonymity, “The city is dead, the people are dead. For what? For these forced elections!”

(snip)

“I’d been in Fallujah for a week and all I’d seen was tough military tactics,” he tells me, “They are arresting people and putting them in these trucks, blindfolded and tied up. Everywhere I looked all I saw was utter devastation.”

(snip)

“Then today, the military brings in a dozen Humvees and ground troops to basically seal off a small area near a market,” he continues, “In the middle of them is a CNN camera crew filming troops throwing candy to kids and these guys in orange vests start cleaning the streets around them.”

(snip)

“All of it was 100% staged. Good PR before the election,” he says. Then in a reference to mainstream America he adds, “Fallujah is fine, now go back to sleep.”

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000186.php

[LisaL]

44. Who are they even voting for?

I saw this on my local TV program. This Iraqi guy had a ballot with hundreds of candidates, and I guess the names weren't even released yet. So, he was confused who he was supposed to vote for. Even if there were names, how does someone who haven't lived in Iraq for decades would even know who to vote for among hundreds of candidates?

[clem_c_rock]

45. And I suppost you bought the 2000/2004 election results??

And, by the way, where are you getting this stuff? Are they from the same batch of pictures where they showed the statue of Saddam coming down and when you panned back it was only about 60 people participating and a good deal of them were american soldiers?

I mean come on, if you really buy this propaganda, I think you should read up about the ridiculous faux elections the British staged when they installed their puppet King Faisel who protected their oil rights for 30 years at the paycheck of $800,000 per month.

Yeah, we're really there for democracy allright.

Glad you bought it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Unfortunately, those poor people are wasting their time and risking their

for nothing. The idiot-in-chief has already chosen the leader of Iraq. What if a Sunni really won? Do you really believe the idiot-in-chief would let him/her be in charge? No friggin' way. Allawi will be the winner. The whole thing is a show. It's a bogus election. Like OUR elections are.

on edit...and do the people voting even know who the hell their voting for? It's not like there's been a 3 year campaign. How do the ex pats know who their voting for? If the people who are actually living there don't know the candidates, how do people living here and elsewhere know? :shrug: The whole thing is a farce. It's a pseudo election so the idiot can say the Iraqis have a "Democracy." :eyes:

[LynnTheDem]

50. You're right! You are getting SUCKED in

This "election" isn't even for electing a government for Iraq.

[rodeodance]

52. the images of happy Iraqi are indeed seductive-and powerful to the

world (and Americans) who are seeing them over and over.

[LynnTheDem]

58. Wrong.

Don't EVEN try to suggest the rest of the world is getting suckered into this bullshit. The world media is reporting the OPPOSITE of what the US State Media is.

[rodeodance]

59. what IS the world media reporting please

[burythehatchet]

53. I'm STILL looking for the sarcasm smilie

try not to get sucked too hard, it'll leave a hickie

[rodeodance]

55. I did not say that with sarcasm

[burythehatchet]

61. I wasn't replying to your post, but to the original post

[rodeodance]

62. sorry burythehatchet---I got mixed up obviously

[journalist3072]

64. Someone educate me please.....

Why are Iraqi expatriots allowed to vote in the first place? They live here in the United States, correct? They don't even live in Iraq. So should they really have a say in what goes on in a place they don't even live?

If I'm way off base here, someone let me know.