smirk has won another one - has put american blacks in chaos

[donsu]

I'm stunned with amazement hearing black after black think smirk is the next best thing to sliced bread.

all that money paid to black preachers sure paid off for the bushgang.

it was easy to bribe black preachers who were running a racket anyway.

those preachers served some powerful kool aid.

maybe we could up the ante and pay the preachers more?

[K-W]

1. link?

Any evidence of this chaos?

[donsu]

3. listen and read - links are everywhere

nt

[K-W]

5. Then it shouldnt be hard for you to find one for this thread. EOM

[donsu]

8. listen when c-span takes phone calls

nt

[Misunderestimator]

11. So, you are basing this accusation on the fact that C-span may

take more calls from people you perceive to be black on their republican line? That's cute.

[donsu]

42. I'm not basing my opinion on only c-span phone calls

that was just a suggested link

[Misunderestimator]

44. LOL... a suggested link...

[K-W]

45. Then give a real link. EOM

[K-W]

18. c-span doesnt give the race of thier callers, but thanks for trying

I thought there were plenty of links?

[DS1]

13. There was a time when a person didn't need a link to post an opinion

on DU. People now act as if everyone needs a link to ride across the river Styx :eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

16. Yeah, well, this opinion kinda bugs me, and certainly sounded

as if it was coming from some source...

[donsu]

25. the source is me - my thinking

nt

[K-W]

30. So you invented a devide caused by black ministers in your head.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

this is why we ask for sources, so we know when someone is making something up

[donsu]

39. LOL

nt

[Misunderestimator]

31. Yeah, I know that now...

[K-W]

17. We are discussing a statement of fact, not an opinion.

But thanks for your input just the same.

[DS1]

23. I see it as a poorly worded opinion

and I don't really care about the topic, it's the responses that bug me

[K-W]

29. Read the post again.

He claimed a devide and claimed that it was caused by black ministers.

These are specific claims, not opinions by any definition.

[donsu]

41. faith based money went to some black preachers

I posted a link to one of the articles last wk. or so. (don't keep links)

[K-W]

46. Ok, that is a little better.

I'll even take a word for it since you provided specifics.

Now give me some evidence of a devide.

Look, Im not trying to be a jerk, I just need to know what supports your statement as ive never heard it before.

[LiviaOlivia]

69. Recasting Republicans as the Party of Civil Rights

This article is about the GOP machine going after black voters.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-slavery29jan29,1,6647068.story

Recasting Republicans as the Party of Civil Rights
Strategists reach back to GOP's antislavery roots in an attempt to lure black voters.

By Peter Wallsten
Times Staff Writer

January 29, 2005

WASHINGTON — Condoleezza Rice took the oath Friday as the first black woman to be secretary of State, then immediately reached back into history to invoke the legacy of Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. Her words were the latest example of President Bush and his top aides citing the Republican Party's often-forgotten 19th century antislavery roots — a strategy that GOP leaders believe will help them make inroads among black voters in the 21st century. And if it reminds voters that the Democrats once embraced slavery, that's not such a bad byproduct, strategists say.

Bush, who keeps a bust of Lincoln prominently displayed in the Oval Office, is making Civil War references a staple of his speeches promoting democracy overseas and policy changes at home. And a glossy, GOP-produced "2005 Republican Freedom Calendar," spotlighting key moments in the party's civil rights history, has been distributed to party officials nationwide. "We started our party with the express intent of protecting the American people from the Democrats' pro-slavery policies that expressly made people inferior to the state," Rep. Christopher Cox (R-Newport Beach) wrote in a letter printed on the calendar. The letter continued: "Today, the animating spirit of the Republican Party is exactly the same as it was then: free people, free minds, free markets, free expression, and unlimited individual opportunity."

~snip~

The focus on the party's past reflects the realignment goals of White House strategist Karl Rove and demonstrates that Republicans view winning a larger portion of the black vote as a major factor for success in future national elections. As part of a sweeping plan to increase the party's appeal to minorities — including Latinos — the Bush White House has aggressively courted socially conservative black preachers and their followers by stressing its opposition to same-sex marriage, by promoting school vouchers and encouraging the funding of church-based charities. Republican strategists are aiming to win as much as 30% of the nation's black vote in the 2008 presidential election — an ambitious goal, given that polls have shown Bush won 11% in his reelection last year and that Democrats remain widely viewed as the party of civil rights.

~snip~

In the years that followed, Republicans led the fights against affirmative action and the creation of a national holiday honoring slain civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. Referring to the GOP's new efforts to promote its civil rights record, Yale University history professor David Blight said, "It's appalling to me as a historian and as an American citizen. It necessitates ignoring and avoiding at least 80 years of the history of the Republican Party, that the Republican Party became the bastion of white solidarity, white comfort." Republicans, however, insist their true history has been obscured — an argument encapsulated by a slogan on their new calendar. "Celebrating a century and a half of civil rights achievement by the Party of Lincoln," proclaims its cover, which features a large image of the 16th president.

~snip~

[Misunderestimator]

2. Um... yeah... I'd like a link too to back up this very GENERAL accusation

[donsu]

7. you will have to link to my brain

this is my opinion. I believe opinions are still allowed at DU

[Misunderestimator]

10. So you think that generalizing that BLACKS support Bush because

some small minority of them do is a valid opinion? I guess you think that GAYS support Bush too because a small, stupid minority do.

[donsu]

28. I don't think it is a "small minority"

nt

[Cats Against Frist]

52. Maybe you should look up the percentage of Blacks who voted for Bush

1/10 a small enough minority for you? Would it also AMAZE you to know this is about the same amount of support the GOP always gets from Blacks??

[norml]

12. I'll attempt a mind meld while I'm in the shower.

In the meantime, try to come up with a link, or an example. They aren't required, but they are entertaining.

[K-W]

20. That was a statement of fact, not of opinion.

But nice try.

[DS1]

15. Don't have a link for ya

I'm just pointing out that links don't equal validation. I've posted something I've been "feeling" looking to see if anyone else was getting a "vibe" before, but then everyone just threw demands of links my way - it was really fucking dumb.

I'm not arguing this thread either way, moreso venting my frustrations re: demanding links for the sometimes unlinkable.

[Misunderestimator]

21. I'll agree that it's unlinkable...

:P But I wasn't asking you :silly:

[K-W]

27. You picked the wrong thread.

In this case the poster made a claim of a devide. It was a statement of fact, not of opinion.

If such a significant devide existed, one would expect to see some evidence to support the claim. Thus the ask for evidence.

I hate to break it to you, but there is alot of misinformation in this world, it is of the utmost important that we make sure we have true information whether it annoys you or not.

[bemildred]

4. Have some more KoolAid. nt

[NJCher]

6. uh, please

I don't think American blacks are fooled in any way, shape or form by the fraud in the WH.

In any group there are a few sellouts.

Playboy bunny, anyone?


Cher

[salin]

9. Not the case locally,

Like others I would like to see some hard evidence of this claim as it defies my daily experience.

[merh]

14. Are you aware that for the first time in history the divided

black Baptist leadership came together and put out an agenda opposing the weed's policies?

Black Baptist leaders put demands to Bush
Groups unite on opposition agenda

By Manya A. Brachear
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 29, 2005

NASHVILLE -- Leaders of 15 million black Baptists on Friday called on President Bush to pay as much attention to democracy at home as democracy abroad, issuing a list of demands that they say better defines America's moral values.

After an unprecedented assembly of four historically divided Baptist groups, presidents of each denomination declared their opposition to the war in Iraq and to the nomination and expected confirmation of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general.

They also called for a higher minimum wage, discontinuation of recent tax cuts, investment in public education and reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, some provisions of which are up for review in 2007.

"We have power in terms of black registered voters across the country to impact who sits in the White House," said Rev. Stephen Thurston, president of the 3 million-member National Baptist Convention of America and pastor of the New Covenant Missionary Baptist Church on Chicago's South Side.

(snip)


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0501290142jan29,1,2052254.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

[donsu]

19. so beat me with a wet noodle - time will tell if what I think is true or

not.

[K-W]

22. You dont get to invent facts and pretend they are opinions.

Either there is a devide amongst blacks or their isnt.

It is a statement of fact, not opinion.

[donsu]

37. I think the planned divide of blacks by the bushgang is beginning

to take affect.

I'm seeing signs everyday and so thought to speak to you all.

guess this is another subject like Israel that we can't talk about on DU without posters getting hysterical.

I'm surprised by this.

[Misunderestimator]

43. "hysterical" ... now that's a nice weapon...

Sure... talk about the problem, because there is a problem... The Bush gang has tried to appeal to Blacks. But to insinuate the they are buying it hook, line and sinker is going to get you some arguments. It's so funny to me how people post inflammatory "opinions" and then are "surprised" that people argue about it.

[donsu]

50. I never said all blacks were buying it

you cannot deny that the bushgang has made inroads in the black community.

[Misunderestimator]

53. As they have everywhere else.... you cannot deny that you implied

this to be a problem among blacks... why single out the black community? More of them voted against Bush than did whites.

[K-W]

47. Then give me specifics.

What are people saying. What percentage of blacks, where.

This is what we need to know, what led you to your conclusion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Right but AA's overwhelmingly voted Dem in this past election as in

others...so right now the facts rebut your opinion and thinking

[madrchsod]

24. doesn`t matter what color they are

there are always people who are willing to lead their flocks if the money comes rolling in. they justify it by saying it`s doing "gods work". some may think they have a friend in the whitehouse but they are only fooling themselves...


on edit--i read about this in a gospel magazine about whether bush or kerry would make a good president. the article came out for kerry but just barely. later issues have dicussed the bush faith based funding and whether it was right to join the plan...it seems your opinion may just have alot of truth to it,at least in my opinion.....

[GetTheRightVote]

26. Faith Based Money Programs in our System for one

does somewhat support your thoughts though I am not sure I agree with you on it. I know many good Preachers but I know bad ones as well go from place to place as I do contracting my work. But it is not hurting those who get funds from these programs to support * either. I do believe that there is good and bad, the bad Preachers will take the money and run with it, I know in the South where I am right now that the Preachers in some of the churches told their people that if they did not vote for * they would go to hell. So there are definitely some bad Preachers in the south atleast and more then happy to see the money come rolling in too.

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

32. No one in MY neighborhood likes Bush or is in "chaos."

Bush came here to New Orleans and met with black preachers and did a photo-op press conference... the Kool Aid was served, but it didn't work. New Orleans voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.

[K-W]

33. Nor here in NYC

All hating Bush, but I guess thats to be expected.

[Swamp Rat]

35. My OPINION is that Bush has sucessfully divided WHITE Americans if anyone.

[msgadget]

34. Mine either,

but the other side would like that impression to stick and be advanced.

[Swamp Rat]

38. I agree

See post#35

[Misunderestimator]

36. Well, I have a problem with the subset of black Americans who oppose

civil rights for gay people, and I'm quite certain that it's a larger subset than the subset of black Americans who voted for Bush... but I certainly don't generalize about the entire group.

[donsu]

48. if you don't like the word 'divide' try 'charmed'

the bushgang has charmed a lot of blacks over to their side.

first they charmed the preachers.

if you don't like 'chaos' try 'confused' or 'troubled'

[Misunderestimator]

49. They've also charmed women, gays, Christians....

what's the point of singling out blacks?

[Cats Against Frist]

51. ARE YOU ON THE PROPAGANDA BANDWAGON, TOO????

The only people who are claiming this -- other than you, of course -- are right-wing hacks, AEI fellows and Republican politicians.

The GOP have always had a 10 percent contingent of Uncle Toms -- mostly affluent "deny my heritage" blacks, and the religious "wrong," -- that they've trotted out for the last few years. And they are actively spreading some kind of rumor that they're still the "party of Lincoln" or some shit. (Read Mario Cuomo's book on Lincoln, and you'll see this is impossible).

Please do not do the GOP's propaganda work for them by repeating this HIGHLY HIGHLY erroneous, created in the right-wing fantasy brain LIE. They're trying to do the EXACT same thing with "Young people."

What a coincidence, eh? Two simultaneous "phenomena" about how THE MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE are turning to the GOP "in droves," which is only reported by card-carrying members of the right-wing propaganda mill.

What a coincidence, eh?

[Tinoire]

54. I've been stunned too but

among my really strong Christian Black friends who first fell for the crap about compassionate conservatism, I noticed a backlash beginning.

There was one junior pastor-type at my last job that I was really close to who was a very real person and a real Christian about his faith.

He and most of his congregation had voted for Bush (mind you, this is in effing California) and it took me two years of stories, two years of pictures, two years of pushing the envelope before he eventually, sincerely, admitted I was right. What finally convinced him was all the non-MSM but provable information I told him about from respected sources AND, AT THE SAME TIME noticing that the government funds they'd relied on to take care of people in need had been drastically cut by the "compassionate" conservatives.

All the while I kept reminding him of wolves in sheeps clothing and exposing who was who in the Illuminati and what it was as well as showing him pictures of the Iraqi victims of democracy.

It took THREE LONG YEARS. And this was a GOOD man! A good man who just wants to live his life doing good and honoring God. We can't just call them narrow-minded for not liking the Democratic Party's stance on gay-rights and abortion- we have to understand where these good people are coming from and intelligently combat it.

The DLC's latest ploy of sprinkling every other sentence with God God God & also pushing faith-based initiatives ain't gonna do it. If the Democratic Party wants decent Christians back on board it needs to expose the evils we've collaborated upon and throw out the collaborators to show that we are sincerely working for good. The WAR would be a GREAT start. We want Christians? Tug at their heart strings.

Yes Donsu, I noticed the same thing and as a Black woman, it's EXTREMELY disturbing. You suggest we should "up the ante and pay the preachers more". Won't work. Except for a corrupt few, it's not money. It's consistency and we have not been consistent. We have NOT cared more for the poor than we have for corporations. We've cared an itty bitty bit more but not enough to point to clear line of demarcation. We need to do better with the TRUE values of Peace, Love and Charity.

My personal humble observation from years of reading DU, is that non-Christians have a hard time understanding the sincerity of real Christians who think Bush is the real thing.

It's not Black after Black but it is TOO MANY!

People like Condi, Clarence, Powell and Alan Keyes weren't spawned in a vacuum. Nor was that Black preacher at Bush's side.

The good news is that this shit is being exposed and more and more good religious people, of all races and religions, are realizing they are being played by these spawns of Satan:

[donsu]

56. I was being snide when suggesting more pay - and thank you

for giving your opinion

[donsu]

55. people - I've noticed a trend and spoke about it

to me, it looks like the bushgang is winning in gaining the votes of blacks.

I mentioned it because I hope we will fight back and stop the kool aid dispension.

that's what I think and I'm not taking the thoughts back.

[Misunderestimator]

57. No one's asking you to take your thoughts back...

Maybe if you had said "I've noticed a trend that more and more blacks are being charmed by the Bush administration" it wouldn't have had the same effect as saying

"smirk has won another one - has put american blacks in chaos
I'm stunned with amazement hearing black after black think smirk is the next best thing to sliced bread.

all that money paid to black preachers sure paid off for the bushgang.

it was easy to bribe black preachers who were running a racket anyway.

those preachers served some powerful kool aid.

maybe we could up the ante and pay the preachers more?"

How else did you expect people to respond? To agree that they see "black after black think smirk is the next best thing to sliced bread," when they see something entirely different?

Were you looking for wholesale agreement on this opinion of yours?

[donsu]

61. wasn't looking for agreement, was looking to see if anyone else

had noticed what I see. and to say to DUers what I said.

so far only a few posters have seen it.

[Misunderestimator]

62. Then what are you complaining about?

:shrug:

[K-W]

63. Then why did you phrase your post to mean something else?

Your post did not say, "Ive noticed a devide amongst blacks with a faction supporting Bush because of ministers paid off with faith base initiative money, have you seen this too?"

You declared Bush the victor in deviding blacks and declared the devide without any hint that you wondered if other people noticed the observation you drew your wild conclusion from.

[donsu]

66. yes I think the bushgang is winning - making big inroads in the

black community. that's what I think

[K-W]

67. That is a claim bigger than one persons personal observation

unless that person is very involved in a very large black community.

Are you so qualified, or do you have evidence of big inroads? Why do you continue to refuse to present the support behind your conclusion?

[merh]

58. So, I provide you a link that should put your "concerns" at ease

and instead of stopping to read it, you continue to post your opinions for 30 minutes.

The Black Baptists coming together for the 1st time in history and officially putting the weed's agenda down and demanding he worry about democracy at home should make you realize that your opinions may not be correct.

Read the article - you will not that the black methodist churches are probably going to do the same thing and that the blacks are not drinking the kool aid. Have you been watching too much Faux news? I'm just wondering because RW talking points would have us believe otherwise.

[donsu]

64. I knew about this, I also read your post

I was speaking of black preachers who serve kool aid.

and I could speak about black commentators, pundits, journalist, etc. that serve kool aid, but if I did this thread might implode (I'm being lighthearted here in a sarcastic manner because I feel like it)

[merh]

68. If you knew about this meeting and their demands to the weed

and you still posted your thread, based on your opinions, without links and ignoring this information, then it appears that you like pushing the kool aid. Your post is what the RW hopes everyone believes (including the black preachers, pundits and journalists).

[K-W]

60. If your observation were true, than there would be evidence.

Your lack of evidence suggests you drew this conclusion without evidence yourself. Sorry we cant just take your word for it on a massive internet forum.

[candy331]

65. Most Blacks going over the great divide are persons that have made it

in the financial world and now have voices that can be heard. Republicans are smart they don't aim for the voiceless in the Black community, they aim for the prominent whose voices are heard constantly over the roar of the crowds. Down in the trench Blacks know that repubs don't represent them and Democrats have almost abandoned them. So I expect the polls will show fewer Blacks bothering to vote(sad but true) at all unless drastic changes are made in the party.
My opinion doesn't mean much either but I too think that the strategy by the repubs is to divide the Black community on issues that really matter to them(jobs, prison sentences, healthcare, poverty etc) and using so called moral issues.

[alcuno]

59. That's weird and just the opposite of what I see. I'm in a 60/40

community where the 40% are black. Most of my friends and co-workers who are black have been on to the * administration from day one.

I think that perhaps you are confusing geographical location with race.