Hollywood Producers Racist Accuses Halle Berry

[JI7]

<American actress HALLE BERRY has accused Hollywood producers and directors of being prejudiced against black women.

Berry hoped she had made a major breakthrough when she won the Best Actress ACADEMY AWARD in 2002 for her role in MONSTER'S BALL, but she has had to resort to developing films herself to create the kind of parts she wan ts.

The 38-year-old says, "The struggle for the woman of colour to find good material is still very present, and it's a struggle I fight every day. I try to make the best out of what comes to me but it's going to be about making my own reality really.

"I've been called a n**ger straight to my face...but there's also much more subtle insidious ways that racism occurs here in Hollywood.

"I don't care what anyone says - they may think it doesn't exist, but it's usually those who aren't black who think that.">

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/entertainment/26582004.htm

[tinrobot]

1. Ummm....

Isn't her mom white?

Methinks she doth protest too much.

[cap]

3. yes but one drop of blood

and African American facial features and you're black

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. What Are African American Facial Features?

[Sandpiper]

6. If you're half black and half white

Does society treat you like a black, or a white?

[Lorien]

14. Society always deems you black

because black genes are dominant; a person with one white parent and one parent who is half black and half white will still be considered black because externally, that's how they look (Tiger Woods is mostly Thai, but most people think of him as black).

[Sandpiper]

17. Exactly

Tiger Woods is 1/4 black, 1/4 white, 1/2 asian, and yet society deems him black.

In this country, if you have a drop of African blood in your veins, you're black.

[Rockerdem]

40. Tiger is Cablinasian

As he refers to himself. Caucasian. Black. American Indian. Asian.

Get over it. Its the future of America and the world.

As far as Ms. Berry, her problem is discrimination against women, not her color. If she were male, she would have producers beating down her door, looking for a "buddy" for the white male lead in an action flick.

[philosophie_en_rose]

85. Get over it?

The idea that black men have it good because they are invited to be "buddies" in films starring "the white male lead" is indicative of racism in both Hollywood and the posts in this thread.

[tinanator]

95. more disturbing here than in the real world

is it really that hard to be fair and aware?

[ikojo]

105. Halle Berry is suffering from a dirth of good roles

for a couple of reasons...she is near 40 and a woman and she hasn't exactly been in a blockbuster lately, except for X Men 2. Catwoman did poorly at the box office and wasn't exactly received fondly. In Hollywood an actor is property and is only as valuable as his/her most recent movie. If the movie did well then there will be people knocking on her door. When movies don't do well, the phone calls and knocks become fewer.

Many Hollywood women of all colors and ethnicities complain of a dirth of roles for "older" women. Seems Hollywood types think women past 30 don't matter anymore.

Here is a list of Halle Berry's most recent movies courtesy of imdb.com...

I doubt any of the roles pack the punch of Monster's Ball.

Their Eyes Were Watching God (2005) (TV) (completed) .... Janie
Robots (2005) (completed) (voice) .... Cappy
... aka Robots: The IMAX Experience (USA: IMAX version)
Catwoman (2004) .... Patience Phillips/Catwoman
Gothika (2003) .... Miranda Grey
X2 (2003) .... Storm/Ororo Munroe
... aka X-Men 2 (Singapore: English title) (USA: working title)
... aka X-2 (USA: poster title)
... aka X-Men 2: X-Men United (USA: promotional title)
... aka X2: X-Men United (USA: promotional title)
Die Another Day (2002) .... Jinx Johnson
... aka D.A.D. (USA: promotional abbreviation)
Monster's Ball (2001) .... Leticia Musgrove
... aka Bal du monstre, Le (Canada: French title)

[BrendaStarr]

121. The ageism of Hollywood is as bad as the racism.

And the sexism is terrible too.

A woman can hardly get a role unless she has a body like Barbie.

And a face to match.

But Halle has aged very well.

[Pithlet]

143. Yep. She fights three forces at play in Hollywood.

Ageism, sexism and racism.

[trogdor]

315. How about bad actress-ism?

So Hollywood producers are racist. This isn't news. They get away with it because just about anything can be a "bona-fide occupational qualification" depending on the movie being made.

My suggestion? Do something about it besides whine and bitch about it, blaming the system for something you did to yourself. Find somebody who can write to write screenplays you can star in. I'm sure there are any number of people in the biz who would be happy to oblige, IF she were serious about getting away from these stupid "show your tits" roles she's been doing lately. IF she were really the caliber of actress worthy of an Oscar, this should not be a problem.

Denzel Washington still gets good roles. That should tell you something. Halle Berry isn't box-office poison because she's black (sort of). She's box office poison because she's Halle Berry.

I mean really. Since when is doing a Bond movie AFTER having won an Oscar a good career move? For one thing, James Bond stopped being cool when Roger Moore stopped playing him. For another, name one actress who actually helped her career by playing a Bond girl. Ever. Even in the Sean Connery era.

[Karenina]

320. She won WHAT?

That BITCH doesn't "deserve" SHIT. Musta been RIGGED or more o dat gol-derned AFFIRMATIVE ACTION tripe!!! How DARE she "blame the system!" She ain't nothin' but tits and ass. I mean REALLY!

[Tomee450]

323. Is Rush Limbaugh

your best friend? He also calls blacks whiners when they complain of racism. Shades of O'Riley, Limbaugh and David Horowitz.

[Karenina]

330. Where's Bill Duke these days???

Just wondering...

I worked as an extra on many sets in LA. Central Casting meant I would play a hooker, service personnel, a homeless person... usw ad nauseum...

I'll never forget the JOLT I experienced one night on Sunset. There we all were, hurrying up to wait when a beat-to-shit vet passed by as the limo arrived and a pot-bellied, arrogant asshole arrived to survey the shoot. The stinky bugger was chased away as all the assistants rushed to feed the fat asshole. I made a HUGE SANDWICH and surreptitiously passed it through the barricade to the man, whose dignity had been stripped from him by war and YEARS on the streets...

[fishwax]

347. No kidding. Some of the responses on this thread

are pretty discouraging.

[Tomee450]

325. What do you mean

"something you did to yourself?" How do you know that? To make such an assertion one would have to think that no discrimination existed in the entertainment industry, something unsupported by the facts. Did it occur to you that perhaps she has not been offered other roles so she took what was offered? Perhaps she is now speaking out because she no longer want such roles but better ones. As far as Denzel is concerned, he said on national television that he doesn't get the best roles offered to him. I find it astounding that you and others want to attack Halle. You accuse her of whining, of being a bad actress, of making poor choices. You have totally rejected the fact that blacks in Hollywood have a harder time than whites. Much has been written about this situation. Halle is not the only black actor to complain of racial discrimination. Angela Basset is known for one major motion picture. I am sure she wanted other starring roles but like other blacks could not overcome that racial barrier.

[shanti]

334. But Halle has aged very well.

i would give credit for that to her african genetics. more melanin, less sun damage.

[exploited]

282. Sounds like she missed out on this role too

"I've been called a n**ger straight to my face...

Sounds like she auditioned for a Tarantino flick (a highly desirable gig I believe).

Good thing she's a beautiful and rich black woman and not, say... a disabled and unemployed black woman. She'd have something to complain about then. Ironically, her above average beauty (which makes her race irrelevant in cameraland btw) is now her handicap in hollyweird because she can't be perceived as a (*sound trumpets*) "serious actor".

Also ironically, why do those who are used to feeding off the beast complain about the quality of what they choose to bite off? Her celebrity is founded on a career of crap roles... and her beauty.

'I don't care what anyone says'
Tell us about it honey. It's all about you, you, you.

[Tomee450]

285. No

the problem is with the attitude that a rich black person should be willing to accept racial discrimination and say nothing. The problem is with attacking the victim and not the individual or industry that engages in such unfair behavior. No one would ever expect a rich white person to not complain if they believed they had been mistreated. This is only expected of African Americans. And by the way, her above average beauty has nothing to do with her problems. As I recall, Elizabeth Taylor had above average beauty and she worked for quite a long time. I suppose you think Denzel Washington was only thinking of himself when he also complained about bias in the industry. You are making excuses for something that is quite prevalent in this society, that is, racism practiced against persons of color.

Your attitude reminds me of my parents account of life during Jim Crow. Whites would pass young black men standing on the corner and called them lazy and good for nothing. Of course, the fact that the men could not get jobs or only the lowest paying ones was never the issue for their accusers. Nothing much has really changed. It's the fault of the black person that they cannot get jobs in their chosen field. It's their fault that they get paid far less than whites. Oh it's always their fault, never the fault of individual of institutionalized racism.

[exploited]

287. Good for you

It's important to fight for a cause in life but it's also important not to get lost in the moment.

I thought I was attacking the 'industry that engages in such unfair behavior'. That's good right? Halle Berry is involved in spinning that industry along. The majority of her role choices have done nothing but help reinforce the prejudices that exist in society -- she's spinning it back at us and getting paid very well for it whilst living in a detached bubble of priviledge.

Whilst she had no problem letting the industry exploit her in the past by accepting roles like B*A*P*S (Black American Princesses), now that she's an entrenched hollywierd icon she want's more. She wants to fight for her rights. She want's good roles for ALL beautiful black middle aged women in hollywierd. LOL. Every hollywierd actor (regardless of age, race or beauty) is longing for a good role just as much the public are longing for a good hollywierd movie.

I could give a rats arse about Halle Berry in the fight for her limelit cause. My support goes to people like you, fighting for legitimate causes at grass roots level. Actors audition; they take the job and then pretend their way through it. Obviously Halle Berry is completely ill equipped to produce her own movie; she's unable to support a great up-and-coming script writer; and she's not going to have a play a role in breaking hollywierd stereotyping.

BTW is Denzel Washington the black Kevin Costner; or maybe he's the black Bruce Willis; or is Bruce Willis the white Will Smith? Regardless, race has little bearing on the quality of the outcome IMO. But they keep churning it out and consumers/actors/producers/bankers/etc. keep feeding off the beast.

[Tomee450]

296. Oh please spare me.

A black person with legitimate grievances, grievances supported by other black people, is dismissed and she is subjected to personal attacks. It's just more of the same, more of what African Americans have come to expect.

Your posts just reeks with insensitivity and bigotry. Halle, on her way to stardom, takes demeaning roles. She did what others have done to start their careers. Yet you denigrate her for that. Because she took those roles, you feel she should not expect anything better. You would never take that attitude toward someone not black. People are expected to start low and strive for the top. If they achieve a measure of success they are not expected to just stop but seek to do even better.However, you and others feel this should not be the case for black people. We should always be satisfied and not complain, not even about proven discrimination.

Am I surprised that you could give a rats ass about Halle? No. I suspect you wouldn't give a rats ass about any black person who dares to complain about his experience with racial discrimination. I've encountered your attitude before. Halle is good for nothing in your opinion. Never mind the successes she has had. I guess in your mind that success was unearned. Shut up Halle, don't complain, accept your fate is the rant of those unconcerned about equal opportunity for all.

You may keep your support. Given the tone of your post it's clear that it is anything but genuine. Your attitude is not uncommon when the subject is a black person. It is abundantly clear that where race relations are concerned, this country as a long way to go.

[exploited]

308. Obviously a fan

Look, I first wrote different reply to your 'please spare me' post which further denigrated Ms. Berrys public record but then I read it back from the perspective of someone with a polarised viewpoint on race relations. It turned out to be obviously just another blatant attack on a person of colour(/sarcasm). I decided it's best not to go there so I wrote this.

I find it interesting that you seem to draw no distinction between the various stratas of society. You speak in broad terms about the 'case for black people' which includes yourself (presumably?) and Ms. Berry in the same sphere. Do you have a house in Malibu? Can you afford to finance a new movie for Ms. Berry to star in? If you could, that would be great -- it doesn't have to be big budget hollywierd item to be a good role for her; there's a whole world of great cinema available to those who seek it.

I'm a white guy but I cannot comprehend the privileges available to someone like Brad Pitt -- whatever he has to say has NO bearing on anything relevant in my life. You know the Tom Cruise movie, Vanilla Sky? Absolutely repulsive seeing a man like Cruise "acting" in a movie that revolved around his vanity -- however, the original French film was interesting.

See where I'm coming from yet?

BTW, political correctness can bite my arse. I feel differently about discrimination though (except for reverse discrimination against the rich -- let them eat shit!)

:)

[Karenina]

309. Your posts reveal

the white male privilege which has informed your thought processes. If you were actually able to FEEL anything from the perspective of "the other" the gratuitous visciousness they spew would surely produce shame.

[exploited]

318. Thankyou, hi

You neatly bring sexism to the table -- it was too hard to resist wasn't it ;)
Now what if I was in a white male minority group (there are several you know) and indeed could FEEL the perspective of the oppressed then surely that must be the source of my venom.

Still... shame on me. However much my priviledge has been squandered I should be grateful I wasn't born a woman, or gawd forbid, a beautiful, rich, popular, "successful" black woman.

I've been talking about movies and movie stars -- every post. The racism/sexism angle is not my beat up. Shame on yourselves -- all of you :P

I was wrong: Vanilla Sky was a virtual scene to scene rip-off of "Abre los Ojos", a Spanish film (not French), not that I minded what nationality the actors were -- it was a good movie.

[Karenina]

328. OOOOOOH, I see...

It's not that I have no understanding of the corner on which you stand.
Quite the contrary. However, you seem to have built a soapbox on it to bash anyone "beneath" you on the allgemeine social hierarchy, holding yourself up as an example, which is, of course, your birthright.

[exploited]

346. allgemeine -- WTF

I had to Babel Fish that one.

I assume you must be implying some kind of Aryan birthright for white males. I hope I'm mistaken.

If not, you've made you point like a true bigot. Congratulations.

[Karenina]

348. Forgive me my vernacular

I live in a bi-lingual limbo and if thinking or typing quickly, or in a tizzy I OFTEN DON'T RECOGNIZE when I've lapsed into D'englisch EVEN UPON PROOFREADING!!! LOL!!!
Funny though, your projection on my meaning says far more about you than me. I don't know what Babel Fish (notoriously unreliable) told you, but just for the record, in this context it means general or universal.

Against whom would you assume I am bigoted? LOL!:evilgrin: LOL!

[Tomee450]

319. I think I pegged you correctly.

Just another post from an insensitive person, comfortable in the knowledge that he will never have to walk in the shoes of a black person. You speak of Halle's wealth and status but you have clearly shown that you would feel the same about a black person without status or wealth. High status and wealth does not make a black person immune from racism. Black movie stars cannot get cabs. Well known authors when appearing for speaking engagements are given a white person's car keys to park his car. Wealthy blacks unable to buy properties in New York City. Wealthy lawyers are subjected to driving while black. But of course you know all of this.

There was a deep callousness to your comments that I have encountered before, ususally from people who held deeply racist beliefs. They always, like you, were ready to reject the truth in favor of blaming the victim of racists acts.

It's because of attitudes like yours that African Americans continue to face so many barriers to reaching their potential in this society. Change is a long way off, I believe.

[Karenina]

333. Even the "sainted" Oprah

has experienced the :wtf: "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" Refused entry at an exclusive shop. I'm SHOCKED! Simply SHOCKED!!!

[exploited]

337. Mate!

You're obviously one of those people that claims they can have people pegged due to your subjective perception of anothers online wordplay. Have I pegged that right?

You are way off. I am entirely not 'comfortable in the knowledge that I will never have to walk in the shoes of a black person.'

Ever tried trying to catch a cab from a wheelchair.

Now go back and read my posts with this new found knowledge. I'm not a racist/*ist. I can't stand fawning political correctness because it's used to mask true intent (are you with me, do you follow?). I can't stand bleating "victims" who are not prepared to forge their own path (hello Ms. Berry, can't create your script/great role/movie with all the weight you carry in hollywierd? -- then make a great low budget independent film).

If my comments sound callous it may be because life has toughened my hide but it probably has more to do with your sensibilities and whatever is happening to you in your part of the world. That's where it's at. If you want to break down barriers in your life you need to work on yourself. That's the only way.

Activism rocks. Press release statements get lost in the clutter. (oh, the racism in Hollywood).

"Burn Hollywood Burn" - Public Enemy (you know, the rap group, of black men.)

[Karenina]

343. Can you possibly imagine

what it would be like to be asian or black or "middle eastern" in a wheelchair?

[Cats Against Frist]

340. Actually, I think he showed that he'd feel the same if a WHITE person was

bitching.

I don't get any racism off of these posts at all, and I'm quick to bash any white male that I see speaking from his privilege, any time I get the chance.

I think he's making a class-based critique. Poor anybody who has a fucking mansion, a hot body and gets to complain on behalf of "black actresses," while her fame is sealed by her conformity to the "white standard of beauty."

I think that all kinds of groups are underrepresented in hollywood, fat people, normal gay people (not portrayed as victims or comedians), all women over 40, people with disabilities, etc.

I think she has a gripe, but as far as underrepresented social groups go, gorgeous black women that look like white women have fewer problems than most.

And I agree, if she wanted SERIOUS roles, there are plenty of independent films, if she could act, that would probably have her. She wants a big-budget, serious, starring role a-la Nicole Kidman, (whose career, I predict, will be going down the toilet now, because of her aging).

I wish her the best, but there's plenty of other things to be lobbying for, and I should be rotting in hell for even posting to this topic, when there are other, more important things to think about.

I do think the use of the term "hollyweird" is fucking irritating, though.

[Tomee450]

350. Here we go again. More excuses.

Your failure and that of others to see the racism in many of these posts graphically illustrates how difficult in will be to end racial discrimination in this country. Attacking a black person who claims racism, racism that is easily verifiable, is indeed racist. I've seen it all before and it's terrible disheartening. Black people can't work so they are called lazy. They are called whiners, they are called mediocre. You can't make this a class argument because all blacks regardless of class experience racism. Stop with the wealth and beauty arguments. It means nothing when you are black. One can always tell the enablers of continued discrimination. They always bring in other so called victims as you have done. If a fat person faces discrimination, then a black fat person experience even more discrimination. A black gay person has two strikes against him. It appears some here are attempting to muddy the waters.

It is a fact that African Americans face more hostly because of race than any other group. Racism is rampant in this country so why do you attempt to infer that its impact is not felt by minorities in Hollywood.

If Halle wants to start producing her own work, fine. But why should she be forced to do so when other stars don't find that necessary. We are talking about discrimination here, the inability of blacks to get good work in their chosen fields. People accuse blacks of whining, blacks who have endured hundreds of years of discrimination yet, some of the biggest whiners in this country are white males. It's only been about fifty ears that blacks have benefited from such things as Affirmative Action. Yet, white men, beneficiaries of all things good in this society, are always whining about reverse discrimination. Privileged white men can complain but African Americans can't. If an extremely wealthy white businessman complained about unfair business practices which caused him to lose money, you would not call him a whiner.

I am so tired of people telling African Americans who just wants to work and not be discriminated against that they should be doing other things to improve conditions for blacks and be satisfied with their present lot.

What about members of the majority population making a concerted effort to stop discrimination in all its forms then this entire conversation would be unnecessary.

[shanti]

332. cablinasian isn't a race

if tiger wants to use it as a personal descriptor, fine, but it's not his race.

[Karenina]

335. As far as Amurikkans are concerned, you're correct.

Q: What do you call a cardiologist in Atlanta?

A: Just another nigger.

[tjdee]

My daughter looks white.

She is biracial, but no one will ever call her black. She is not even a little bit brown. Maybe she'd be cast as Hispanic, but she's fairer than Jennifer Lopez.

If she were an actress, I'd count her as extremely lucky because unfortunately her marketability would be much higher.

I hope that changes.

[ikojo]

106. I have a niece who was classified by the Marines as Latino

and there is not one drop of Latino in her ancestry....

Italian (father's side)
Irish (father and mother's side)
Easter European Jewish (mom's side)

[notadmblnd]

229. I know what you mean

people have even come and asked me "what is he?" because they cant tell if he is hispanic, black, white or arab. My reply has always been he's a little boy. Next come the excuses.. "oh I was just wondering... I have a mixed neice or nephew etc. It has been my experience that since people can't tell what his ethnicitiy is, he has been accepted by all.

[Karenina]

235. Long time ago

When my Mr.Spock was a kid, we were in the grocery store and a woman passed us, obviously noted my skin hue and remarked, "Oh, he's just sooo cute. Is he mixed?" Spock blurted out, "Madame I am NOT a breed of DOG. I am BI-RACIAL." She in my perception, by her comportment, REALLY meant no harm, but 5 year old SPOCK was HIGHLY OFFENDED. Ever seen a brown face turn RED???

[ultraist]

172. It's a social construct NOT GENETIC

In the US, the "one drop rule" means if you are part black than you are considered black. IT IS NOT LIKE THIS IN ALL COUNTRIES. This was a rule/law created a LOOOOONG time ago. In some countries, if you are part white, you are considered white by race. (They have the OPPOSITE one drop rule).

It has nothing to do with genes. "Black genes are dominant" is not true. The DNA of blacks and whites is 99.9% THE SAME.

[rniel]

261. What about Vin Diesel

I heard he's half black, but probably most people think of him as white.

[hiley]

15. My grandkids are black but I am white

and so is their Mother but you understand the way it is;
they are black.

[goclark]

30. Black, Black, Black

That is how you are treatedc.

They think of Halle Berry as a "pretty BLACK actress."

[SemperEadem]

253. Exactly

If Hollywood was going to do a casting of Mary, Queen of Scots or Catherine the Great, Halle is off the list, even though she may bring the exact temperment and performance to the part, she will be overlooked in favor of a Rene Zellweiger, Kate Winslett or a Cate Blanchette--and none of them are Scottish, but they're white and can be trained to speak with a Scottish dialect.

If they were casting Cleopatra, Rene, Cate and Kate still would be considered for the roll along with Halle.

It's not all about acting ability--it's about which projects get greenlighted by the studio each year and of those being greenlighted, how many of them are going to be 1. well written and 2. a vehicle by which a Halle Berry or a Vivica A. Fox or a Jada Pinkett or an Angela Bassett or a Lynne Whitfield or a Alfrie Woodard will be considered in the running along with the white actresses considered for the picture.

[trogdor]

316. Uh, no.

Rene, Cate and Kate would all suck as Cleopatra. You know it, the industry knows it, and I know it. Bad example.

Of course, if it were 1984, Tina Turner would be a natural as Cleo.

[AuntiBush]

51. Depends on Cultural Upbring

At least, that's what my Cultural Anthropology class taught us. In more simpler terms, we're pre-conditioned according to our demographic neighborhood raised in, regarding the race, or class, or even cultural beliefs that surround us.

In the end, we learned that when we make our way into adulthood, at a stage where we make decisions and form opinions on our own, no longer influenced by parents, etc., it is then we choice which culture that's more adaptable, comfortable and welcoming to us.

Kinda sad, in a way, that all of us are not more opened to one another.

[shanti]

338. makes for a very confused kid!

if he looks black but is raised white...and a very angry confused adult!

[SemperEadem]

250. physically, if you look black, then you're treated black

if your features are more white, you get insulted by people you don't know asking you about your pedigree, as if they had a right to know and then them making stupid, rude and ignorant comments to you, as if you had a hand in who you were born to.

[Karenina]

344. HALLO!

The "assumptions" are OUTRAGEOUS.

[shanti]

331. you are really asking this question?

well, as the mother of a biracial son, i will answer it for you. most people treat him as BLACK - period. however, he thinks of himself this way too, i have no problem with it. yes, technically, he is black and white....:shrug:

[Karenina]

339. As the black mother

of a bi-racial son who identifies as erraaaa... well... as white as I did as a child, I'd say we've NOT paved a smooth enough path for our kids. Content of character and all- if you know what I mean.

[LisaL]

19. It probably is harder to be a biracial person...

Cause of comments like yours. She is not black enough? But she will never be white enough either.

[hiley]

22. exactly

right !

[TomClash]

25. But she sure is sexy, hot and beautiful

Can most people say the same about themselves?

[hiley]

27. Most are not as sexy as her

that is for sure. She could make many jealous.

[porkrind]

50. She is. I just watched her "catwoman" movie last night.

Mediocre movie, but she carried it. She looked great too. Too bad she has to put up with this racist crap. Too bad for all of us that the ignorant and fearful among us perpetuate racism, and politicians use it as wedge issue to control them.

[DBoon]

77. ..and very talented

which makes her criticism all the sharper.

She isn't a no-talent using race as an excuse for their stalled career - she's someone who should have absolutely no complaints, who should be at the top of her field.

[pokercat999]

118. Black, white, green or blue

Halle makes my heart run just a little faster.

[mark414]

209. fear of a black planet

white man, white woman...white baby

black man, black woman...black baby

white man, black woman...black baby

black man, white woman...black baby

[Kahutec]

224. It is all in the color and features

I am close to a bi-racial family who have 2 beautiful boys who are tan colored and one is white. All are a beautiful mix of both parents!

[mattclearing]

225. Props for this.

PE are so badass.

[WilliamPitt]

230. WTF does that have to do with anything?

Wow. Way to prove the point.

[Kahutec]

270. I think I'll RACE on down to the toilet!

[Used and Abused]

234. I'm not a halle berry fan, but she is right

Some of you should put the sarcasm aside for a moment and think about the many "all white" releases from this weekend alone. Halle, unfortunately, cannot revert back to the fly by night black comedies like "Barbershop." So she has to wait for people to cast her in the major movies, and guess what? It won't happen that often. And her being mixed has nothing to do with anything. Most blacks in this country have white ancestry somewhere down the line (due to the many rapes that occured during slavery).

[jayctravis]

327. Good point.

Halle is so stunningly beautiful and has an Oscar for one of those wrenching parts that labels her a "serious" actor that producers probably can't fit her into midrange comedy which pays the bills. Oscar winners get pegged for expensive high-risk movies that rise or fall on their performance, and while she's an excellent actress, I'm not sure she is "seasoned" enough to do this.

She's done such weird parts. In Gothika she was good but the movie was awful. Swordfish was probably the most abhorrent movie I've seen. I wonder if she was even considering winning an Oscar when she agreed to that gratuitous boobie shot.

Probably she should not shy from doing small roles where she has the chance to steal the movie. Can she do comedy?

[jdj]

349. well, as Halle tells it...

being that her parent's were of different races, she asked her mom one day if she was bi-racial.

Her mom said "no, you're black."

Halle said she told her this to prepare her for the fact that she would be perceived as a Black woman.

And it appears since, as she has said, people have called her n----- to her face, that her mother was very wise to prepare her for this.

[Psephos]

2. Yes, Halle and her millions are living proof /sarcasm

I'm not saying there's no racism in Hollywood, but she is hardly the poster girl for it.

[cap]

8. actually halle is right to protest

that she isnt getting kazillions like major white stars. It all trickles downward to where everyday folks arent getting a major shake.

Have you ever wondered why she isn't cast as Juliette in Romeo and Juliette across a white actor? Or why Denzel Washington doesn't get to be Hamlet?

[UncleSepp]

16. Or why Bruce Willis doesn't play Othello? (n/t)

[cap]

46. being black was specifically part of Othello's character...

your comment makes no sense... there's a lot of explicit reference to Othello's skin color.

A few things just dont make sense, ie plays about race need characters with the right skin color but most other plays don't. That was my point.

[tjdee]

68. A friend of mine bitched that Audra MacDonald shouldn't have been Daddy

Warbucks' secretary. I wanted to break something, LOL.

When race is not SPECIFICALLY alluded to, the part should be open to everyone.

That is not the way it is done in Hollywood.

[Karenina]

82. Audra has INCREDIBLE pipes too!

She's ALL THAT and a BAG O'CHIPS. An incredible talent, impeccably trained and a great spirit! Naw, y'all don't even KNOW who she is or what she can do. Dismiss the Negress with a wave of the hand. It's part of white privilege. Even OPRAH indulges in it! :evilgrin: Dorothy Donegan, Vy Redd, Clora Bryant, WHO THE HELL ARE THEY??? NEVER HOID OVEM! But BRITTANY... Thanks Tjdee!!!

[tjdee]

136. Audra is soooo underrated.

She is amazing, really amazing.

But that BRITNEY SPEARS! She's SO GREAT! :evilgrin:

[Bucky]

252. Ving Rhames as Kojak coming out soon.

Kojak was white--Greek American in fact, going by the name. Yet they're casting Ving Rhames in the part. Because he's black? No. Because he's a good actor and ALL of Hollywood isn't racist.

Racism is real in America. But multi-gazillionaire Halle Berry is not its victim. Sorry, no sale.

[mitchum]

205. and being a teenager is specifically part of Juliet's character...

as Hamlet's relative youth is essential to his character. Denzel Washington is one of the finest actors working today, but he would look ridiculous as Hamlet. As ridiculous as Gibson and Branagh were in the role (although Washington's chops put those two to shame)

Racism is present in Hollywood (as it is in the rest of this country), but her problem is her industry's (gender specific) ageism.
As far as producers are concerned, she is getting long in her pretty tooth.

[UncleSepp]

324. Being Danish is part of Hamlet's character

In the present time, Danes come in many races, but in the time in which Hamlet is set, Danes were white. Shakespeare's Italian, Scottish, English, and Danish characters have explicit references to their nationalities, and in that time, those references of nationality also implied race. In that sense, a white Othello makes as much sense as a black Hamlet. European culture is white as much as African culture is black. Please don't try to make it more generic than it is. We're white, we're not see-through.

OTOH, depending on the director's decisions for setting, the race or even gender of established characters may be changed, either for deliberate effect (Othello being, in these days, perhaps a Semitic appearing Arab, and not a Moor? Set the whole play in California in the forties and make him Japanese?) or simply to put the best actors in the roles. Casting decisions in opera tend to be made this way. Nobody blinks at a black Wotan anymore as long as he's got the pipes.

I think you might have chosen a better example for black actors in roles which are not racially specific. For Hollywood recently, think about "I, Robot." The male lead and one of the male supporting actors were both black, and other than one or two throwaway lines, that had nothing to do with the characters. Will Smith tends to play action parts which could be played by an actor of any race: there's no Bruce Willis action movie for which he could not have played Willis' part. His comedy roles, on the other hand, have tended to be race-specific roles.

An upcoming example might be the next James Bond. James Bond is British, and in modern Britain, a Brit may be black or Indian or anything else. Although we have become accustomed to a white James Bond, there's no real reason why Bond *must* be white. The role is culture-specific, but since it is modern, not at all race-specific. No, the role certainly is no Hamlet, but why should it be?

[gollygee]

131. No - see there are some roles that require an actor to be black or white

Most roles could have an actor of any race, but Hollywood assumes that any character who is not specified as being any particular race is white.

[pocket]

20. Denzel got one of the leads in "Much ado abotu nothing"

Great movie, btw.

I like Halle, but boy has she been in some stinkers.

Gothika was absolute vomit.

[oasis]

31. And catwoman?

[pocket]

55. I didnt see Catwoman

I wasn't going to fall for that one...

[oasis]

58. Her part in that James Bond flick was hardly anything to write home about.

:shrug:

[Tomee450]

116. But even Denzel

has stated that he doesn't get the kind of parts that are offered to white actors. I believe it was on one of the talk shows that he made that statement.

[Karenina]

213. An Officer and a Gentleman 1982

Lou Gosset Jr. had to CONVINCE the producers that race was not germane to the role. Good that they allowed themselves to be persuaded, eh?

[mattclearing]

226. Seriously, I understand not having access to great roles, but really...

You'd think she'd take a vacation rather than subject us to another Catwoman or Gothika.

I'm glad she's producing, though. If that's what it takes, good for her.

[tinrobot]

24. Average people can protest, too...

<<Have you ever wondered why she isn't cast as Juliette in Romeo and Juliette across a white actor>>

Because she's an average actress?

Because she's never done Shakespeare before?

Because 'Catwoman' lost bundles of money?

Because her name above the movie title doesn't generate more business?

There's plenty of reasons besides "she's black."

[cap]

47. but there are no reasons why there haven't been talented

black actresses regularly playing those parts. There are no reasons why blacks arent groomed to take on major parts in Hollywood just like whites are. Stars just dont happen --- there's a whole industry of making them.

[tinrobot]

66. She blew her chance...

She was on top after her Oscar win and had her pick of roles. She chose to make 'Gothika' and 'Catwoman.' Two bombs in a row does not do well for one's career, regardless of race.

I don't think 'Racist Hollywood Producers' are the only ones to blame for her failure to get more starring roles. Halle needs to take some of that burden herself. She chose two flops. Not reading the scripts carefully and saying 'no' is entirely her fault.

[Tomee450]

120. I wish people would stop making

excuses for the discrimination that exists in Hollywood. There are plenty of good black actresses who are continuously ignored. I thought the actress who played Tina Turner years ago would have a great career. She has mostly been ignored in Hollywood. Other black actresses have suffered the same fate. The powers that be in the movie industry have always discriminated against blacks. That is a well known fact.

[mitchum]

206. Her name is Angela Bassett, and she is very talented...

and criminally underused. As is the case with Alfre Woodard and many more. Hollywood is racist. It is also sexist and ageist. But perhaps it discriminates most against those who can't "deliver a blockbuster"
And all of that is a shame.

[mattclearing]

227. Angela Bassett is/was such a badass.

She carried Strange Days. And she was great in Boyz N'Da Hood.

In fact, she's been great in just about everything she's ever done.

What happened?

[roseBudd]

89. You said "Because she's an average actress?"

Um, I guess you did not see "Monsters Ball" and are unaware she won Best Actress for that part. Or "Introducing Dorothy Dandridge" which she won a Best Actress Golden Globe and Screen Actors Guild award for.

[elizabeth]

102. Why does it always have to be "something else?"

Do black people still need to be swinging from trees before we acknowledge racism? When an African American points out racism, why do white people have to immediately try to explain it away?

[Kerrytravelers]

126. What makes you think we're all white?

[elizabeth]

135. I was addressing the question generally, not to any specific forum member

[Karenina]

214. But sometimes

it's pretty obvious, eh? :evilgrin:

[tblue37]

249. Denzel did play the Prince

in Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado about Nothing. Keanu Reeves played his brother.

[EnfantTerrible]

376. Actually Denzel is playing Brutus

on Broadway and is in rehearsals for it right now.

[Tomee450]

115. Your attitude is absolutely

preposterous. Why is it that some people think that a black person with millions should just accept racial discrimination and say nothing? Do you think money is everything? Halle's money shouldn't even be brought up. She is an actress who wants to work in her chosen field. She feels she is being discriminated against and you seem to feel that is OK since she has millions. Absolutely absurd.

[SemperEadem]

254. you say that as if the money was the sole goal for Berry

and not the love of acting.. so she's made a couple of million on a few flicks... when other actresses are doing a lot of films, working consistently and expanding their abilities and probably making near what Berry's done.

totally unfair.

[fasttense]

4. Gee, millions is not enough for her?

No doubt there is racism in Hollywood. (Repukes in government have made it safe for racists everywhere.) But her complaining about it is like Madonna complaining about sexism. Unbelievable.

[TahitiNut]

13. Yep. Much better that someone who doesn't succeed do the complaining.

It's easier to respond: "Sour grapes!" :eyes:

[fasttense]

39. No, much better that she DO something about it.

Money is power, She has more money than me, she has more power than me. Why doesn't she start a company to promote other black woman in movies? Why doesn't she help out the next generation of black actresses? She's just developing roles for herself. How about the rest of society? Attack the cause of racism.

[Tomee450]

124. She can do all that

you have said and still talk about racism. Martin Luther King did both. Why should anyone remain silent about racism. To do so makes no sense whatsoever.

[SemperEadem]

256. what makes you think she isn't doing just that?

you know her personally or something?

[Bucky]

255. If an unfamous, unrich person said this, it wouldn't make the news

It still sounds like sour grapes. There's plenty of actors of color playing roles that are not race specific. Halle Berry is one of them, quite frankly. I don't doubt that there are racists in Hollywood. The entertainment industry is still pretty open and liberal on race matters.

If she wants to make a difference, she might do better to address inequalities in education, job training, housing, banking, and business opportunities. Problems in those areas are well documented. Opportunities in the acting profession provide far too many examples to counter Ms Berry's complaints.

[Tomee450]

271. Your statements are inaccurate.

The entertainment industry is notorious for its racism. A few years ago Jesse Jackson was trying to call attention to this fact. He acted after receiving so many complaints from blacks who couldn't get good jobs in the industry. Halle Berry's accusations are supported by the statement of other African Americans. Some people prefer to keep their heads in the sand. Others attempt to change the subject which is racism in Hollywood, to blaming the victim with personal attacks. If Halle wants to talk about discrimination in other areas, fine but it is not her job to do so. She wants to work,not be discriminated against. She has every right to speak out if she feels she has been unfairly treated. I am so tired of hearing that its a case of sour grapes when a famous and wealthy black person indicates they have experienced discrimination. To me, that shows just how little the person hurling that insult cares about the issue. They just want African Americans to shut up and say nothing.

[Lorien]

32. Just because someone has earned a good income

doesn't mean that they should be treated like crap. I'm so sick of this reverse snobbery on DU; if you aren't poor then shut up. I've been poor enough to starve for weeks while living in a ghetto basement, and I earned a large six figure income during the Clinton years. Now I'm poor again. Money DOES NOT give a person happiness; all it does is remove itself as a concern. When I was well off, I worried about my health, my friends, the republican takeover of congress, the fact that I hated the work I was doing...I had heartbreak when friends or family died-I just didn't think about money. Now I think about money all the time because I'm in debt (unemployment and medical bills can change everything). That's the big difference. Yes, being wealthy is far less stressful than poverty in day to day terms, but bad things happen to wealthy people too, and they have a right to feel what they feel about those things. They are human. If Berry feels her that her career is fading away because of her race, gender, or age, then she has a right to be alarmed. If she's been called a ni**er to her face, she has a right to be outraged. She's a human being, not just a fat bank account.

[VegasWolf]

37. Lorien, well said, she is a human being, and a beautiful one at that.n/t

[Wind Dancer]

Great post, Lorien.

[Tomee450]

125. Thank you. Excellent post.

[Tomee450]

122. No what is unbelievable

is that someone would feel that another person should accept racial discrimination just because she is wealthy.

[tinonedown]

5. Don't leave out other minorities

Including black men, Asians and Latinos. Though I understand her personal frustration it's apparent that this goes beyond African American women. Token awards and roles will not satisfy any longer, we must be integral in the system as we are everyday American life.

[Robert Oak]

7. come on she's right

Think about it. Do you see Halle Berry getting those meaty dramatic roles, even after an Academy award?

She gets...what? hot piece of meat in a James Bond movie????

[DoNotRefill]

59. Ummm...correct me if I'm wrong here...

but haven't a lot of the so-called "hot piece of meat in a James Bond movie" been played by white women? Like Ursula Andress, Kim Basinger, et cetera? Being cast as a "Bond Girl" isn't exactly an insult, at least in my book. Besides, if she didn't want the role, she could have said "no", right?

I haven't been to see a movie in a theater in years...not because I don't like movies in theaters, but because so much of what is out there is rubbish.

[Tomee450]

127. Halle hasn't complained

about the Bond role. She is not happy because she, despite being a good actress, is being ignored in Hollywood because of her race. She is suffering the same fate as other well known black actresses.

[roseBudd]

91. Other black actors after winning Oscar have had the same experience

remember Louis Gossett, Jr after "An Officer and a Gentleman"

http://www.indiana.edu/~bfca/features/oscars.html

Is Hollywood still conducting business in black and white, or is green the predominant color of the Film Industry? In other words, does the image of African Americans that Hollywood most frequently presents reflect what makes the most money with national and international audiences? If so, what can be done to combat this problem in order to secure more worthwhile roles for black actors and actresses and projects for black filmmakers?

We encourage you to make up your own mind by taking a look at the articles, books, websites, and films listed at the bottom of this web page

African American Academy Award Winners:
Hattie McDaniel, Best Actress in a Supporting Role for Gone With the Wind (1939).
James Baskett, Honorary Award "for his able and heart-warming characterization of Uncle Remus, friend and story teller to the children of the world in Walt Disney's Song of the South" (1946).
Sidney Poitier, Best Actor in a Leading Role for Lilies of the Field (1963).
Louis Gossett, Jr., Best Actor in a Supporting Role for An Officer and a Gentleman (1982).
Denzel Washington, Best Actor in a Supporting Role for Glory (1989).
Whoopi Goldberg, Best Actress in a Supporting Role for Ghost (1990).
Cuba Gooding, Jr., Best Actor in a Supporting Role for Jerry Maguire (1996).
Halle Berry, Best Actress in a Leading Role for Monster's Ball (2001).
Denzel Washington, Best Actor in a Leading Role for Training Day (2001).
Sidney Poitier, Honorary Lifetime Achievement Award "for his extraordinary performances and unique presence on the screen and for representing the industry with dignity, style and intelligence." .

[DS1]

9. Well, there's no way the "Catwoman" movie had anything to do with this.

Youch

[Lorien]

10. She's right, but there's also a huge amount of

sexism and ageism in Hollywood too. She's not just an African American; she's also a woman over 35-three strikes against her. When I worked in the film industry I always heard about the "treasured box office demographic-white men aged 16-24". Big box office $$$ came from movies that featured stars who appealed most to that demographic.

One of my former students is a good friend of Halle's (I keep hoping that they'll get together because he's a great guy), and I've overheard horrible racist statements against him back when I was working in a studio. It's shocking and disgusting.

[tblue37]

251. Then the filmmakers are fools--

because Halle Berry would bring in the coveted young white male demographic (and every other male demographic) no matter what the movie was. Let her play Shakespeare, and suddenly a lot of adolescent males will want to go to the Shakespeare flick instead of Terminator X. Yeah, she's over 35, but she looks 25.

[Lorien]

257. They are indeed fools

remember when they fired a writer on a teen drama because they found out she was 33 and not 19? She looked 19, her scripts attracted a huge audience, but because she was over 30, they canned her (I think it was on the show Felicity). As soon as an actress turns 40 in Hollywood, the scripts drop off significantly, even if she looks like she's 27. It's sick.

[Karenina]

260. She got canned

because some bigwig, thinking she was a teenie, realized he'd made and ABSOLUTE FOOL of himself to a mature woman who recognized his BULLSHIT.

[jpgray]

11. Well, try to name the last ten significant, dramatic AA roles in film

And then try to name the last ten significant, dramatic Caucasian roles. You'll notice one is rather thinly stretched over a period of years whereas the other will probably fit into one year. Halle Berry is a lousy actress, but she's right about this--there isn't much significant work for her.

[tjdee]

44. Especially women. OMG, don't even get me started on Asians.

There are three working Asian actors in Hollywood right now, and that's stretching it (Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, and Jet Li).

It's not like they're going gee, Brad Pitt, or...Jet Li.
Doesn't happen.

[SemperEadem]

259. ooooh.. they should

Jet Li and Chow Yun Fat are both foine!!!!!!!!

[MurrayDelph]

12. Didn't she also scream racism

as the reason her character in The Flintstones didn't
have an action figure?

She's a spoiled diva whose antics dilute any efforts to help
remove real rasicm.

[hiley]

21. I don't agree with you at all,

she may be spoiled but she has the right to "Scream Racism" because she lives in her shoes not any of us. :hi:

[Karenina]

93. Goodness gracious!

Yesterday it was Essie-Mae getting dragged through the muck for her perceived foibles, today Halle, :wtf: Is it open-season on black women?
(Not as if it hasn't always been). Guess I better get me one o' dem Kevlar vests!

[Kerrytravelers]

23. Racism is everywhere, no doubt...

however, she has chosen to do crappy films. And as far as developing her own projects, do you know how many actors do that? She isn't unique to the situation. Often women over 35 have to do that because all the parts are written for women in their early 20s. At this point, she has enough clout with audiences and with those in the film business to truly develop some worthwhile projects. The best way to rise above those who would pull you down is to be excellent. That what Oprah and Barbara Walters said the other day, and I thought, how true. No matter your gender, color, etc, there will always be people who want to tear you down. Be excellent and you will succeed. If Halle wants to rise above these racists, don't make a public scene about it, simply develop excellent projects, rise above them, and then say, I told you so. Now, there will be those who dismiss her because of her public sttements. She can also use this opportunity to give other deserving actors a chance at some great roles they may otherwise be passed over for. If I were in her positin, I would create roles that don't play into the sterotypes, but get to the heart of her ethnicity and culture. That is definetly something I would pay to see.

That's how I've found my excellence and who I am today. And really, instead of accussing others of injustices, just making yourself excellent is far more freeing.

[tjdee]

57. She is unable to do that.

That's her problem.
She has no head for that sort of thing, or she would have done it already--maybe she's just realizing that, and will develop a head for it.

[MADem]

84. NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!

Watch INTRODUCING DOROTHY DANDRIDGE. It was her project, start to finish, and she did a fantastic job on it. Everything, from costumes to scenery to the way the film was made, was wonderful. The casting was great too--the Preminger role was spot-on.

[Kerrytravelers]

128. Dorothy Dandridge was great...

why isn't she doing more of this? Far superior work than Catwoman or any other studio picture I've seen her in lately.

And yes, I'm a Halle fan!

[tjdee]

146. You are right, I forgot that.

And she won an Emmy for it too, no?

So that was a mistake on my part--so then I agree with whoever said that she should do MORE of this.

Does it suck that she has to? Yes.

But she should definitely do more pieces like that.

[Kerrytravelers]

155. Emmy and Golden Globe (I think)

[elizabeth]

110. Of Course!

"No matter your gender, color, etc, there will always be people who want to tear you down. Be excellent and you will succeed."

Work twice as hard to be treated half as good!! Why don't white men think like that?!

"If Halle wants to rise above these racists, don't make a public scene about it, simply develop excellent projects, rise above them, and then say, I told you so."

Thank God, the activists in the late 60s/early 70s "made a scene." Maybe if more people did make a scene, our country wouldn't be in the God-awful shape it's in now. I think that is part of the problem. Too many personal pursuits/interests, not enough communal ones!

[Kerrytravelers]

123. "make a scene"

Obviously, when a woman has an Oscar and millions, people will dismiss her. However, by proving them wrong, she sets and example.

Clearly, there are times for scenes. For me, this is not the first time she has accused people of being racist when things didn't go her way.

If her statement was in regards to Black actors as a whole, then I would agree. But her statement was a personal one, not a communal one (as you put it.) She has a unique oportunity to really make a change. I would have rather her come out and announce the start of her production company because of the racism she has experienced, not just said they are racists, but then not take a proactive stand regarding the matter.


Don't read more into my posts then I wrote.

[Tomee450]

134. But are you saying that

the other times she cried racism it did not exist? I am black and I can recouont many cases of racism that I have experienced. Do you realy think that African Americans only experience one or two cases of discrimination in their lifetime? You are very much in error if this is what you think.

[Kerrytravelers]

160. I never said all her claims of racism didn't exist.

But if she has these experiences, be proactive in the fight against it. SHe made an excellent Academy Awards speech, citing those who had worked for her to be whree she is. Shouldn't she be doing the same for others?

[Tomee450]

169. Halle speaking out about racism

is an attempt to fight it. You can speak against racism and also do other things to combat it. Some here seem to be annoyed that she has even spoken about racism in the movie industry.

[wildeyed]

73. Well maybe racisms was why her character in the Flintstones

didn't have an action figure? :shrug:

[ismnotwasm]

18. Racism and sexism

She's 38-- over the hill by hollwood standards. Exceptional beauty--beauty that crosses racial barriers--and tokenism have no doubt taken her very far. I'm not a big fan of hers, but she's at that age where female actors HAVE to start expanding their roles, or get left in the dust of newer, fresher faces. If that is the case, I wonder what roles she is being offered? I'm glad she's making a statement. Maybe she sees herself as speaking for others, there are not a lot of black women in hollywood getting great parts, last I checked. And it "is" ism-not-wasm, as far as sexism and racism are concerned.

[fasttense]

35. Before the plastic surgery, she wasn't as pretty.

[wildeyed]

75. Meow! n/t

[qanda]

26. Some of you all just don't get it!!!!!

And probably never will. SAD. SAD. SAD.

[tjdee]

65. Yup, and that's why it won't change for years.

If that.

[elizabeth]

103. even among "progressive" white folks

[Kerrytravelers]

130. and you know who is white, or Latino, or Asian, or male or female?

I never bother to think about it when reading peope's post unless they specifically state it.

[elizabeth]

152. Again, generally speaking....

You asked me not to read any more into your posts, please extend the same courtesy to me. I'm not assuming everyone on here is white. I am willing to say that I believe when individuals experience racism and discrimination first hand, it is a little harder to dismiss it when someone else claims to be a victim. Speaking from both historical precedents and contemporary examples, what group is the LEAST likely to experience racism/discrimination? White people. I also think to ignore race differences is completely unrealistic. If you don't think about race, how can you think about racism? Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

[Tomee450]

139. Lately, I've begun

to believe that some here really aren't that progressive.

[Misunderestimator]

80. Some of the posts here are astounding... OF COURSE there is racism

in Hollywood.... why would it be any different there? Just because she's rich and famous she doesn't have the right to speak up about her own experiences with racism? Wow.

[Kerrytravelers]

133. No, she should certinaly speak up, but in addition to speaking up,

because she is in an influencial and financial position, she should be taking proactive stances to help others less fortunate than she is in the entertainment and other fields.

I am all for people speaking out, but what others are saying is, when you can do something to help others, DO IT! I hope she does start a production company and produces projects thay give other Black actors- and minority actors in general- a chance. Why stop at actors, how about those behind the scences as well. Spike Lee does this. If she feels the sting of racism, pony up and do something about it.

[Misunderestimator]

151. Why should she take proactive stances to help others... she's doing

the most she can as a celebrity by speaking up. Who are you to judge her? I see plenty of people everyday doing things that are good for others who could do even more than they are doing, myself included. Why is it her responsibility to help others, when speaking about the problem already helps more than she could in many other ways?

[Kerrytravelers]

154. She should help because she is in a position to do so.

It is all our responsibilities to help others out to make this world a better place.

[Misunderestimator]

158. Right... Our responsibility... She bears no more responsibility than any

single one of us. She's an actor, Kerrytravelers, she's not a diplomat, she's not a philanthropist, she's not Mother Teresa... she's no different than you or me. But she certainly has done MORE in bringing THIS subject to light than you or I have. How have you made the world a better place today?

[Kerrytravelers]

162. I work with inner city school children with learning disabilities

and I write on issues regarding education, in addition to working and volunteering on election cycles.

Have I done enough for you?

[Misunderestimator]

165. Good for you.... and Halle is doing her part as well.

Trying to quantify the level of someone's charity is always a dangerous thing to do.

[Old Mouse]

217. You said it. n/t

[w4rma]

28. There is racism, sexism and nationalism *everywhere*. She needs to name

names rather than painting everyone there with a broad brush.

I would guess that the bigger the corporation the more racist and sexist the folks at the top are (since they are more likely to be Repukes).

[Karenina]

264. Yeah RIGHT!

Jes like it was incumbent upon Essie Mae to call out her daddy. :eyes:

[oasis]

29. Halle face is girl, your just a a hack. And an old one at that. You were

destined to fall by the wayside.

[Lorien]

33. A "hack" with an Oscar?

Hardly. And old? Can we tell you that it's time to "fall by the wayside" when you near forty? I hate seeing this kind of bigotry on DU.

[oasis]

38. Only exceptionally good actresses get parts at her age. That's how

it has alwawys been in Hollywood. Her marketability has declined. Maybe you can write a part for her and submit it to the studios. Or she can.

This is not Delta airlines putting a (stewardess)out to pasture and denying her a living because she's lost her looks. Btw, maybe Halle can pick up an application from Delta if she's desperate for work.

And yes, you can tell me to "fall by the wayside" when my money making potential begins to go south.

[tinrobot]

45. It happened to Cher

She won an Oscar. When was the last time she had a leading role in a film?

[oasis]

49. And Cher has some good work under her belt. Sharon Stone, Melanie

Griffith, Kathleen Turner and Kelly McGillis are all sitting on the sidelines because there is no work for their level of talent.

Katherine Hepburn, Lucille Ball and Dorothy McQuire are among a few Hollywood actresses that were able to adapt to the aging process.

Halle's also a primadonna/alchoholic which doesn't help her case.

[tjdee]

56. Melanie Griffith is a HORRIBLE actress.

Just wanted to say that :)

But the industry is still being run by middle aged white men.
That's basically what the problem is.

[oasis]

62. 75-80% of Hollywood's leading actors today wouldn't make it in the

40's through 70's. The industry demanded talent.

[MADem]

83. Gee, I thought she shone in CRAZY IN ALABAMA

I think she has the ability, but all that plastic surgery is ruining her--she is starting to look a little scary. And I'm not sure her priorities are always with her craft. What the hell, if she saved her earnings, she doesn't have to act.

I agree with your assessment about who runs the industry. Perhaps Halle might want to talk to Penny Marshall, and Demi Moore (who made a BUNDLE producing the AUSTIN POWERS series).

I think it is more of a gender issue, not a race issue, frankly. Two black men are nominated for BEST ACTOR this year. Black is cool this season, apparently. But if women want a good part, they need to find either a wise man producer, a woman producer, or scrape up the dough, the script, the director, etc. themselves. But if they keep on at it, eventually they will prevail. It's not an easy road, but if they stay on it, they will eventually own the industry....the female producers have a pretty good track record in terms of artistry and profit--and profit is the bottom line.

I don't go to Hollywood films. I wait until they come out on the cable, if I see them at all. I really prefer the independent films. They are sometimes uneven, but they have a gritty reality that you can't find in the slick, overproduced Hollywood productions, which are usually short on plot, heavy on product placement, and formulaic.

As an aside, Halle is a nice gal. She spent a lot of time visiting the troops right before FLINTSTONES came out. Banged all over hell (with the flu, puking) to remote outposts during Black History Month. I give her a great deal of credit for that, she went, cheerfully, to some real hellholes, and you never would have known she was under the weather--a class act. She also never mentioned it, when she could have gotten a lot of mileage out of it....

[tjdee]

153. Independent films, I was just talking about this with my sister.

I was watching the Sundance dailies, and when they showed the 'power room' or whatever, it was full of middle aged white men. At Sundance, which is supposed to be the "independent" place to be. It was sad.

Made me wonder where all the black filmmakers are (or Asian, for that matter, or Hispanic,etc.). Or women, though I did see a handful.

I'd agree that it's much more of a gender issue-- a long time ago I wanted to be an actor, but now that I'm too old (and still under 30!) I see that the *real* place to be is in production or directing. That is where the power is. As you say, Penny Marshall and Demi's producing credits, that's where it is.

[tinrobot]

60. Helen Hunt

Won an Oscar for "As Good As It Gets"

Where's her career at right now? She's back on TV last time I saw...

An Oscar is not a guarantee of future work. Halle needs to learn this.

[tjdee]

63. She's not just talking about herself, though.

I see your point, and it's kind of sad that a number of my favorite actresses are almost at that point (I mean, Sandra Bullock is 39?!)--
but she is right right right. I can't underscore that enough.

[oasis]

67. When a no talent like Keanu Reeves finds steady work then you know

something is out of whack in Hollywood.

[tinrobot]

76. The Matrix made money

Tons of it. That's why Keanu gets more roles. There's absolutely nothing out of whack when you realize it's not about talent, it's about money.

[oasis]

78. Money is the bottom line. Halle can holler but it's all about the dollar.

;-)

[Old Mouse]

216. Lost all of it and more on the sequels n/t

[girl gone mad]

279. Exactly. Money talks in Hollywood.

You're only as good as the Box Office on your last picture.

Also, there's something known as the "Oscar curse", because so mnay Oscar winners have seen their careers go on a downward spiral for one reason or another.

[UdoKier]

239. Keanu is not 'white'.

He's half Hawaiian/Chinese, and half English.


But yes, he is a no talent, but good looks take you a long way...

[tinrobot]

71. Halle ALWAYS talks about herself...

Have you ever seen her in an interview? Very self-centered. The fact that she had two bombs in a row has nothing to do with her inability to get more roles. She's so vain, she can't comprehend that her bad choices could possibly be a factor in her career downturn, so it MUST be racism.

I totally agree that black women do not get choice roles, and they should get more. I'm just saying Ms Berry is not the one to be making the case for it. Her words just ring hollow for me.

[tjdee]

74. I think personally she's as exciting as a piece of bread.

I find her to be bland in every sense of the word--when she is off a movie set.

I also think her movie choices suck hardcore. BUT, as I was saying before, what else is she being offered? Were those two the best of the bunch?

Also, production and promotion on both films named could have been better. I'm absolutely sure they didn't get the same support that a Renee Zellweger film would, and it's not like Bridget Jones is Oscar material either.

Don't get me wrong, I can only barely defend Halle's business choices. But she is absolutely correct in her assessment, accidentally or no. I've been saying it for a while, but no one is going to interview me.

[MADem]

86. Delta does not DO THAT

In fact, I happen to know, personally, a SIXTY SEVEN year old Delta Flight attendant, who started way back in the day with Pan Am, went to Western, and was absorbed by DELTA.

There's a lot wrong with Delta, but age discrimination (or weight discrimination, for that matter) is an unfair charge. In fact, most of the senior attendants would LIKE to retire, but they keep 'em working till they keel over!

[girl gone mad]

278. I know I'm just fanning the flames..

but to me it's a bit like NBA players complaining that they're not getting huge contracts at age 40.

It may not be fair, but that's the industry they're in. Blockbusters are made for young audiences. It's human nature to sympathize with young, good looking people, which is why protagonists are almost always young and good looking.

Leading men may still get peak roles a bit later in life, but the ageism applies to them as well. Bruce Willis and Harrison Ford aren't action stars anymore. Arnold knew he wouldn't have a long career, so he made plans for what to do with the rest of his life.

[Tomee450]

281. You ,like others

ignore many of the posts from blacks who have tried to explain that racism is a fact in Hollywood. Young black actresses have the same problems with discrimination as Halle Berry. Angela Bassett was rather young when she played Tina Turner but look what happened to her. Do you really believe that she never wanted to act in starring roles in major motion pictures? Black actors are not offered good parts. It's exactly the same thing that has been happening in the modeling industry. Fewer and fewer black models are being seen on the runways. Many of these models are young and attractive but they too, cannot get the good jobs and have complained about this. It is shocking that so many people are in denial about a real problem faced by blacks in the entertainment and other industries, regardless of age.

[theboss]

357. Hollywood as an entity is discriminatory to a whole bunch of peopl

It's not easy being any woman over the age of 35. Or any black actor. Or any Hispanic actor. Or any Asian actor. I don't think any of this a revelation, however.

I think if Angela Basset had said this, most of us would be okay with it. But Halle Berry has had more success than 99.99999 percent of all actresses in the world. And anyone who follows Hollywood knows that she lives on "Planet Me!"

So, I think she makes a very real point. But I think she is being as self-serving as ever.

To me, what this article really boils down to is Halle Berry is pissed that she hasn't had a blockbuster.

[theboss]

356. Has anyone actually seen that movie?

It's still not clear to me how she won the Oscar in the first place.

I think she's an average actrees with exceptional beauty. She's only given three performances I thought were "great:" Bulworth, Dorothy Dandridge, and Jungle Fever.

[Tomee450]

137. Oh, and do

you feel the same way about Julia Roberts who is also about Halle's age. And what about Catherine Zeta Jones, is she also over the hill in your mind?

[Kerrytravelers]

164. Julia Roberts is a waste of space.

Catherine Zeta Jones married money, so she'll never worry.

I'm also not crazy about Angela Bassett, but it has nothing to do with her color but how I just don't care for her films. I'm not crazy about Samual L. Jackson because I think he's obnixious. Has nothing to do with his color but about how I can't stand him during interviews.

[UdoKier]

240. Julia Roberts is way over the hill as a starlet/sex symbol.

She peaked at Pretty Woman. The fact that she looks like a horse doesn't wok much in her favor.


Zeta-Jones, on the other hand, is blessed with amazing bone structure and will hold up well for a long time to come. It's all very individual.

Look what the once-cute Meg Ryan has done to herself:


before


after

[LiberallyInclined]

34. it's a capitalist society...

and black-centric films don't do as well in the marketplace.

Halle has a bundle of money- why doesn't she do what others in her position have done...develop her own films and invest her own money.

I'm a middle-aged white guy, i don't consider myself a racist, but "black-centric" (?? for lack of a better word at this point) films don't especially interest me- and since i don't have kids, children/family fare generally doesn't do it for me either. and i can't think of a single "bollywwod" production that i've ever seen.

different strokes for different ffolkes, but you can't blame the studios/producers for trying to make a profit.

[yorkiemommie1]

36. when my daughter's mixed race friends go see an agent

the one of the first things they ask is 'can you speak 'ghetto'?

my daughter is half white/ half asian and many agents tell her " i don't know how to place you in a...family " does it HAVE to be in a family? how about any number of other roles?

they also ask her if she speaks chinese.

[Kerrytravelers]

171. I would absolutely call them on the carpet about that one.

Some people have no idea how terrible they sound until it is pointed out to them. Remember, the goal is to educate them, not alienate them! (If that is possible.) :eyes:

[Dover]

41. It's racism combined with profit motive. I'll bet the producers just

don't quite believe that movies with blacks have the same sale potential. And there may be no good writing for that to happen as well. And that's probably because most writers are white.
And on and on.

They need to write material that doesn't focus on color at all...it shouldn't determine a character's role (unless the movie is trying to make a cultural statement about color). People are people...above and beyond cultural heritage and skin color. Will we ever get to that?

[tjdee]

69. That is why they hire Beyonce, Queen Latifah, etc.

Because they figure that their fans will see the picture.

It makes me want to throw up.

What happens when they write culturally absent material, though, blacks get pissed off. Then the character "acts white".

You can't win with some people, but it seems to me that as you said, they're playing it safe as far as a profit goes.

[UdoKier]

241. What's wrong with Queen Latifah?

She's talented, big and beautiful. She doesn't act "white" or ghetto.

I think she is a great example that a woman can be big AND VERY sexy.

[Rockerdem]

72. Hollywood uses formulaic race

Actually, some of the richest stars are macho black males, and there have been a LOT of them. Hollywood loves them because they cross over demographics, something that white males cannot do very successfully unless accompanied by one of the above. However, when it comes to women, its another sad story. The only ones who make it are model-looks biracials/multiracials who have crossover appeal. And crossover is where its at, dollarwise.

[Dover]

101. sounds about right......

Oprah Winfrey was/is not model perfect and is an excellent actress, but always played culturally specific black roles. No threat there, and no crossover that challenged her role in society directly.

But then she decided to be herself and do what interested her.
She showed them!!!

[the_outsider]

167. we definitely will and it will happen soon

It will happen with the shift in global economic balance which will change a lot faster than the economic balance within US. 70% of Americans are whites, but their disposable incomes and net assets both are a lot more than 70% of the total national incomes and net assets. That's why their tastes, fantasies and prejudices are reflected in almost 100% of Hollywood movies.

Movies are capital-intensive and profit-driven. With other currencies becoming more competitive with dollar, other countries' purchasing powers and self-esteem increasing, their own movie industries maturing, hollywood will have to re-invent itself to continue to sell globally. Without selling its crappy action blockbusters to a global market, it will collapse on its own. Percentage-wise very few films (and most of them are really crappy) make huge profits which sustain the rest of the industry and a large portion of that profit comes from foreign markets. That share will continue to increase as India, China and Euro becoming more competitive with US economy and a slow but steady erosion of white middle class in US with less and less disposable income to spend on movies.

Hollywood will need crossover films with leading characters from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds to survive in the global marketplace or to even compete with Indie films.

As an example of a film which does not focus on the leading characters' race/color and is just a stoner road comedy , you can watch "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle". Both John and Kal Penn are very funny and talented. Another great film about second-generation Asian over-achievers and their moral emptiness is "Better luck tomorrow" which easily transcends Asian experience in US and can be as easily applied to a group of White kids.

[solarize]

42. Yay! We need more people to point out that

America is extremely racist and getting more racist by the day. I live in Central Virginia and I see racist behavior every day...from name calling (eg, the word "nigger" is used constantly) to blatant violence. I'm sick of it and I'm glad she's made a statement about it. This whole business about her being a bad actor and rich does not negate the fact that she is right...

I'm latino...have you seen a latino in a starring role recently???

[TahitiNut]

70. Besides J-Lo, you mean?

:shrug: I guess Penelope Cruz doesn't count. Unless "lately" means in the last 5 minutes.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[solarize]

92. It's been at least 2 or 3 years

since either of these actresses have played a major role in a Hollywood film.

[TahitiNut]

97. Total Bullshit! Try checking IMDb before posting something so ridiculous.

:eyes:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000182/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9SmVubmlmZXIgTG9wZXp8aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc=1;ft=20;fm=1

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004851/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9UGVuZWxvcGUgQ3J1enxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=20


Now, compare it to Julia Roberts ... a totally Anglo actress arguably the most popular in Hollywood today ... with 11 roles since 2000.

# Charlotte's Web (2006) (pre-production) (voice) .... Charlotte
# Ant Bully (2006) (filming) (voice) .... Hova
# Ocean's Twelve (2004) .... Tess Ocean
# Closer (2004/I) .... Anna
# Mona Lisa Smile (2003) .... Katherine Ann Watson
# Confessions of a Dangerous Mind (2002) .... Patricia Watson
# Full Frontal (2002) .... Catherine/Francesca
# Grand Champion (2002) .... Julia, pregnant ticket taker
# Ocean's Eleven (2001) .... Tess Ocean
# America's Sweethearts (2001) .... Kathleen "Kiki" Harrison
# The Mexican (2001) .... Samantha Barzel

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000210/

[TahitiNut]

96. Then you must have blinders on.

First, Penelope Cruz has been as active as any actor can get. Below, in reverse order, I list only what she's been doing since 2000. There's nothing minor about starring in "Captain Corelli's Mandolin," "Vanilla Sky," and "Head in the Clouds" - all significant movies!!

# Volver (2006) (announced)
# Tu vida en 65 minutos (2005) (pre-production)
# Bandidas (2005) (post-production) .... Maria
# Chromophobia (2005) (post-production) .... Gloria
# Sahara (2005) (completed) .... Eva Rojas
# Head in the Clouds (2004) .... Mia
# Noel (2004) .... Nina Vasquez
# Non ti muovere (2004) .... Italia
... aka Don't Move (USA)
# Gothika (2003) .... Chloe Sava
# Fanfan la tulipe (2003) .... Adeline La Franchise
# Masked and Anonymous (2003) .... Pagan Lace
# Waking Up in Reno (2002) .... Brenda (Spanish Woman)
# Vanilla Sky (2001) .... Sofia Serrano
# Sin noticias de Dios (2001) .... Carmen Ramos
... aka Don't Tempt Me (USA)
... aka No News From God (USA)
... aka Without News of God (USA)
# Captain Corelli's Mandolin (2001) .... Pelagia
# Blow (2001) .... Mirtha Jung

<...more...>
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004851/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9UGVuZWxvcGUgQ3J1enxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_


When I look at Jennifer Lopez, I see another actress that's extremely active and popular.

# American Darlings (2005) (pre-production)
# Monster-in-Law (2005) (post-production) .... Charlotte "Charlie" Honeywell
# An Unfinished Life (2005) (completed) .... Jean Gilkyson
# Shall We Dance (2004) .... Paulina
# Jersey Girl (2004) .... Gertrude Steiney
# Gigli (2003) .... Ricki
# Maid in Manhattan (2002) .... Marisa Ventura
... aka Made in New York (USA: poster title)
# Enough (2002) .... Slim Hiller
# Angel Eyes (2001) .... Sharon Pogue
# The Wedding Planner (2001) .... Mary Fiore

<...more...>

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000182/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9SmVubmlmZXIgTG9wZXp8aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u


Lastly, don't fucking EVER suggest I'm a "racist apologist"!! I don't know what people's problems are on DU these days that they can't seem to compose a fucking post without making some personal attack, but I'm getting damned tired of it. If you want to discuss issues and facts, fine. Don't EVER fucking try to suggest I "think racism is no longer an issue" or that I'm "living is some sort of weird alternate universe"!!! That kind of BULLSHIT personal attack is about as disgusting as it gets!

If you want to show racism, there's one helluva lot better evidence and examples than the fucking MOVIES!!

This will, with little doubt, be soon removed (almost rightly so) by the moderators, even though it focuses PURELY on a post, and not a person.
To them, I apologize for adding to their workload.
For saying this, however, I do not.

[elizabeth]

109. You still only mentioned two actresses.

So we have Lopez and Cruz. I will even throw in Selma Hyak as another example, so that's three in relation to how many white actresses. In addition only about 3-4 of the non-Lopez movies you listed were mainstream. Then, you had to go to imbd to get them.

[TahitiNut]

113. I'm not in the habit of tabulating actresses by their demographics.

It's not my job.

I'm also not very mindful of a person's demographics unless the person, for one reason or another, affiliates themselves with a demographic perspective. Both J-Lo and Penelope Cruz have been in movies that I've watched and enjoyed recently. J-Lo was recently on "Inside the Actor's Studio" and spoke of the casting difficulties of Latinas in the Anglo movie market. Nonetheless, she's been extraordinarily successful.

I have a great deal of respect for Selma Hayek (she was awesome in Frida), Penelope Cruz (I loved her performance in both "Corelli" and "Head"), and J-Lo ... who's under-rated (imho) as an actress.

Insofar as "having to go to IMDb" ... I tend to offer objective information rather than my own "ass-extractions." In saying "you had to go," you make it personal ... about me and not the subject. It's NOT about my ability to list Latinas or Latinos in the movies.

What it's about is a national culture that (I agree) is recently becoming less accepting and tolerant of (what I regard as our wonderful) ethnic diversity in this country. There's one helluva lot better ways to show this than to make totally specious claims that J-Lo or Cruz don't get enough roles. Such a specious and false claim merely fuels the forces of bigotry!

[solarize]

111. I'm sorry for being so caustic...

This is one of those hot button issues for me and I apologize for over reacting. I know you aren't a "racist apologist," I think I was just being overly reactionary...

Sorry again...

[TahitiNut]

114. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Let's all try to keep our eye on the ball. There's not much doubt that tolerance for diversity is on the wane ... and is a poor goal to begin with. I've NEVER been "tolerant" of diversity. I've reveled in it. It's like a Sunday Brunch ... I can't even begin to comprehend why anyone would complain that there's diversity at a Sunday Brunch. Likewise in the vast and wonderful rainbow of humanity. It's not something to "tolerate" -- it's a blessing!

There's a helluva lot more tangible and comprehensive evidence of bigotry than talking about a few stars in the movies. Health care, employment, and other areas of disenfranchisement are still overwhelmingly indicative of prejudice and bigotry on our nation.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

273. Penelope Cruz is Spanish, which gives her a pass

with white racists.

[TheWraith]

207. Well...

There's Edward James Olmos, who I've recently become a big fan of. Does Martin Sheen count? He's only half Spanish, of course, the other half being Irish.

My two cents on this issue: I have a hard time feeling sorry for Halle. I'm sure there's racism, but she's hardly the poster child for it. Moreover, the impression that I've gotten of her over the last few years is that she's a bit of a primadonna, and has a bit too high of an opinion of herself. Her statement seems to talk more about her difficulties than that of other black actresses. Given that, and the bombs that she's been making recently, this comes off as more of an excuse and pity grab than a genuine protest, and that's never good. It ends up feeding the impression that racism is a card to be played by people who don't want to own up to their mistakes.

[Tomee450]

246. I think you are wrong.

First of all, I doubt if Halle is looking for someone to feel sorry for her. That sentiment is often hurled at African Americans by people who do not want to hear anything about racial discrimination.

I've not noticed that Halle acts like a prima donna. She is a lot more humble than many entertainers. Attacking Hattie personally just because she has spoken about racism is most unfortunate. She is telling the the truth and is not discussing racism more than other actors. I've heard both male and female black entertainers say exactly the same thing. And the discrimination is not limited to being in front of the camerae. Many blacks have also complained about their inability to get jobs behind the camera.

Halle may have appeared in bombs but her performances have been good in some of those bombs. Additionally, since she is not being offered the better roles, she may have decided to accept what she was offered rather than not work at all.

It's sad that so many people in this country are in denial about the racism that exists here.

[tjdee]

43. She is SO RIGHT. Some of you don't get it.

Unless you are a hip hop singer (see: Beyonce, Queen Latifah, Ashanti), if you're a black woman you are not being cast in major pictures.

Period. I can name a dozen white starlets (Tara Reid, etc.), and NO black ones. No Asian ones either.

This makes me so much angrier than I can express in a message board post.

Another thing we can thank red America for.

[DoNotRefill]

61. Ummm.....

"I can name a dozen white starlets (Tara Reid, etc.), and NO black ones."

What about the Richie girl who hangs out with the Hilton airhead? If "one drop of black blood = black" as some say here, wouldn't she count?

[tjdee]

64. Is she working in films?

I was speaking about film starlets, I guess I could have been clearer.

But if we're going to talk about Nicole Ritchie, I do not see her with an album deal, nor a perfume, nor any of this other franchising that Paris is doing. In her case, that's probably because Nicole Ritchie has no star quality at all. But really, neither does Paris.

[elizabeth]

132. Nicole Ritchie is not black or bi-racial

Lionel Ritchie adopted her when he married her mother

[tjdee]

159. She IS part black, and she IS multicultural.

Lionel Ritchie's wife is not her biological mother.

Nicole's biological father is Sheila E.'s brother, who is black and latino. Her biological mother, no one knows anything about, but she is rumored to be white.

Lionel Ritchie and his wife didn't have any children of their own, and Nicole was kind of passed around as a young child. They took her in. (That part I learned from the E! Hollywood Story on them!)

[elizabeth]

163. Sorry-- missed that show

I stand corrected.

[Karenina]

88. I challenge you all

to name ONE black female instrumentalist. Or one EVER featured as a cameo in a film. NO SINGERS. Just ONE. Ever wonder why? :shrug:

[fortyfeetunder]

90. I can name at least two

Message:
I do not know her name, but she plays bass guitar in Paul Shaffer's band on the David Letterman show.

Another black female instrumentalist is Regina Carter jazz violinist.

[elizabeth]

98. Wow--two

(and you don't even know the name of one)

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

100. Maybe the majority gravitate towards other pursuits...

Just because there are not a huge amount of black female instrumentalists, doesn't mean that this is the byproduct of racism. Get real...

JB

[fortyfeetunder]

177. You are right, it's not necesarily racism

How about a lack of encouragement? (True for most male-dominated professions)

However, the Sphinx project is one group working to change that.

www.sphinxmusic.org

[Karenina]

263. Thanks for that link 40

But when I tell you I played in an orchestra in NYC "to change that" 35 FUCKING YEARS AGO, how does that affect your feeling or thinking?

[Karenina]

211. Can't find any "qualified ones," eh?

:wow: The angry and white parts are obvious in your posts. It's also obvious at whom some of that anger is directed. I nominate this thread as exhibit #1 in the case of "liberal" denial of the byproducts of racism.

[Tomee450]

247. I couldn't agree more.

Some of these posts are shocking. It shows that when someone describes himself as liberal or progressive, that does not mean he doesn't hold some of the same negative views about blacks as the Republican right. A black person tries to discuss the very real racism that they have experienced and they are attacked. They
l. failed to take responsibility
2. failed to make good choices
3. are lousy at their work
4. They are prima donnas
5. They are making millions and have no right to complain.

All kinds of excuses are made to deflect from the real issue which is discriminatory practices directed at persons of color. And yet some people would strongly deny that they harbor any views that could be considered racist. They are quite comfortable with attacking the persons who experience the racism rather than those who practice it.

[Lorien]

262. Geez, I heard this all the time in the animation industry

"there are hardly any female animators because women don't gravitate towards animation". Really? then why are the enrollments in animation classes 70% female? I had to remove my first name from my portfolio and fill it with sports and cheesecake to get a job. When they found out that I'm a woman, they tried to retract their job offer. Let's not delude ourselves; racism and sexism are alive and well in this country-even here on DU.

[Karenina]

265. Why am I crying?

Is it just because I'm "too sensitive" and need to "toughen up" or is it because I've been BEATEN TO A BLOODY FUCKING PULP by angry liberals and conservatives of ALL SKIN SHADES and both genders for excelling in my field FOR DECADES, just wanting to do "my thing?" Is it the RELENTLESS INVALIDATION, hazing, stereotyping, belittling, being held to standards that those making the demand could NOT MEET??? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Lorien]

299. I'm with you, Karenina

I know exactly how you feel, and I know you've had a really rough time of it because your field demands a lot of social interaction. They do beat you down, and it's fucking exhausting. Always being asked to do twice as much for far less pay, being told "you've really come a long way for a woman", or "you____ like a man"! (Meant as a complement) the harassment, the bulldozing (trying to crush you if they want your job). Hell, I finally started my own business and became a recluse so I could just DO MY JOB in peace. I am anonymous. Most of my clients don't know my gender until they've signed me to do the job. You don't have that luxury. It's unbelievably cruel, and I wish there were something I could do.

:hug:

[solinvictus]

48. But....

she's chosen some real stinkers over the past two years, "Gothika" and "Catwoman" were two roles that other stars turned down because they read the script. One commentator said of Berry that, being an Oscar winner, she should be more careful in selecting roles. "Catwoman" is not the role for an Oscar winning actress and it was passed over by several other stars.

[tjdee]

52. What else is she getting, though.

Catwoman was a poor choice. But that makes me concerned about what else they're sending her. What if CatWoman was the best of the lot?
I can guarantee they're not sending "Million Dollar Baby" her way, or "Being Julia" or anything that they haven't first sent to Nicole Kidman and all the white actresses.

I CAN bet, though, that she's being sent "The Black maid who saves the day" and "The Life of that black woman who no one knows about", with Joe Schmo directing (in his first picture!).

I think Halle has horrible business sense and basically no star personality, but there is a great deal of truth in what she's saying.

[roseBudd]

94. Name the scripts Halle rejected that weren't stinkers, should she

have just not worked at all? That really works for an acting career.

[Behind the Aegis]

53. she makes a good point....

BUT....look at all the other minorities that are also not represented. Who was the last Asian-American to win an Oscar? Latino/a? The thing is they (ethnic) minorities can ban together and make a stink. They can expose some of these people for who they are. I don't know how much of a difference it would make. But let's also talk about the number of OPENLY gay and lesbian actors out there! How many roles do they get?!?! Unless they are playing a disease-ridden, pedophile or a truck-driving,gym teacher, roles for gays and lesbians DO NOT exist. Gays are, like always, OK as long as they are BEHIND the scenes!

[DoNotRefill]

54. Ummm.....

I think this can be said of ALL producers and all genders/ethnicities. The crap hollywood has been putting out recently (with one or two exceptions) is exactly that....CRAP.

Personally, I think that there are no decent roles for ANYBODY out there now.

[Horse with no Name]

79. Hollywood reflects society

And society as a whole does promote racism.
I love Oprah, but I feel that she has become the society of whites poster child...someone they can say "I'm not racist, I watch Oprah".
If Oprah were to run for public office, I feel you would see the Repugs turn on her so fast it would make your head spin.
Not to say that neocons are the only racists...but I feel the majority of them are.

[fortyfeetunder]

87. Hollywood and diversity

Hollywood recycles the same looking stars (young, slim, blonde) with little to offer in diversity. I don't think it's going to change unless the public, led by actors who commit as change agents.

If Halle wants to change the face of Hollywood, then maybe she ought to team up with either Spike Lee, Robert Townsend, M. Night Shamaylan, etc. to direct a movie that will show diverse and talented cast at its finest and capable of crossing over a diverse audience.

[elizabeth]

108. She did...

Halle Berry did work with Spike Lee in Jungle Fever.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

99. THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR CHOOSING TO BE IN "CATWOMAN".

I'm so sick of African-Americans or other minorities blaming the racism of others when THEY THEMSELVES OFTEN MAKE POOR CHOICES leading to hardship or problems.

Racism sucks and is present (no doubt), but this doesn't immunize the victims of racism from assuming some personal responsibility and owning up to their poor choices.

Give me a break...

JB

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kerrytravelers]

145. Whitey?

Wow. In less than 10 posts, you've managed to use a slur. Congratulations. You sure made your point.

[elizabeth]

161. Slur?

In what way? The id on the post specifically said "white" liberal and angry white liberal at that. Angry at what? I can only assume the anger is directed toward "black people who don't take personal responsibility for their problems (i.e. racism)." I stand behind my post. Racism is offensive, isn't it? Glad you can at least recognize against a self-identified "white" person. Too bad it is not as easily recognizable when it is directed toward black and brown people. Didn't Halle report racial epithets used against her?

[Kerrytravelers]

166. Yes, dear, racism is offensive.

I can only assume the anger is directed toward "black people who don't take personal responsibility for their problems



That's a pretty big assumption to make. At his 900+ posts to your 12, you might want to look at past posts to discover this "Angry White Liberal" is not a racist.

Don't assume that because someone takes a differnt position on an issue they are necessarily against you. Instead of atacking someone, ask them what they meant by that. Most people here at DU will respond in kind. Tell them your life experiences and why you take the view that you have.

Quite honestly, I'd rather hear why at 12 posts you have been so angry. What did you see in Halle's statements? What feelings does it bring to your mind. Then,I'd be happy to tell you the same thing from my experiences.

The moderators do delete posts here at DU. I haven't cited you, but others might it you directly call them racists.

Here, have a beer and welcome to DU.:beer:

[Tomee450]

173. Well I think your attitude

has been quite condescending. I do wish people would not preach to people whose shoes they have not worn. African Americans are quite able to determine who,is and who is not prejudiced. Sometimes people put forth a progressive or liberal facade but eventually their real colors show up. That poster's remarks were quite offensive to me and others. I have seen similar emotions expressed from people known to have a real disdain for African Americans. The kind of anger he showed was a red flag.

[Kerrytravelers]

174. My attitude has been I think Hallee is in a strong position to make a

proactive change withn the enternainment field. If that is condesending, then so be it. I harly think hoping someone who can make a differnece will is such a terrible thing. If I didn't always express what I meant in the best way, I can accept that, but if you had read my posts consistantly, I have said the same thing repeatedly.

I only wish I had the money, power and audience support to make such a change. I am envious of her position and opportunity to do something truly outstanding.




AngryWhiteLiberal wrote:
I'm so sick of African-Americans or other minorities blaming the racism of others when THEY THEMSELVES OFTEN MAKE POOR CHOICES leading to hardship or problems.

Racism sucks and is present (no doubt), but this doesn't immunize the victims of racism from assuming some personal responsibility and owning up to their poor choices.

Give me a break...





Ok, could it have been written better? Hell, yes. But his point is that Hallee has made some pretty crappy films lately, so that may just play a role in her losing parts. He thinks she may have some personal responsibility in her lack of roles. While he deserves cencure on his poor writing skills here, we must not always assume that people are racist.


Do I agree with his position? Well, not really. But everytime someone claims racism, that doesn't make it true. That is his point. I personally don't know if it is her choice of bad roles, or if that is all she had offerend when I made the point that I would like to see her take a proactive stance and confront the racism head on by taking change and producing the same quality a film that she did when she produced the Dorothy Danridge film that won her an Emmy and a Golden Globe. She has proven she is capable. I'd like to see her do it and make all those who doubted her eat their biggotted words.

[ultraist]

182. Kerry traveler: Please...

Remarks such as, "the goal is to educate them not alienate them" is CONDENSCENDING and revealing.

[Kerrytravelers]

186. huh?

The goal is to educate those who make racist remarks is condesending? Huh? Notice I also said "If that's possible with rolly eyes, referring to the difficult task of getting biggots to hear you and how aggravitating that can be.

Oh, I get it. We should just explode when people are being racist instead of telling them what they are saying is wrong. I have found that getting upset feels good at the moment, but the person you're mad at just tunes you out and doesn't hear you.

So, yes, it reveals that I actually try talking to people when I am offended.

But, if you need to believe I am some biggot, go ahead.

[Tomee450]

184. African Americans

are not just living to cry racism. Usually when the accusation is made, it is true. Racism is ugly, it is painful and I can assure you that most of us would rather not have to discuss it. Unfortunately, the day when that is no longer necessary is a long way off.
To me your intent and that of some others, is to deflect attention from the fact that racism exists by pointing the finger at its victims and accusing them of not doing enough to end it. In other words, it is the African American population that should be responsible for ending discriminatory practices. Something is very wrong with that thinking. Halle seems to be the object of anger simply by saying what is a known fact, that is, racism is a problem in Hollywood. Even if she does nothing proactive, she still has the right to complain if he feels she is being treated unfairly because of her race. Black people should not be asked to bear most of the responsibility for ending a situation not of their making.

[Kerrytravelers]

192. Absolutely racism is alive and well

Working in education, and specifically the shcools in wich I work, I see it everysingle day.

Anytime there is racism, it should be screamed from the top of every mountain and to anyone who will listen. When someone who has no power in their situation is discriminated against, they most often have no place to turn.

Hallee is in a different situation. She has it all. Her appeal is universal, she is wealthy, she is talented and has a proven track record of being successful. She proved her ability to not only act (hello Academy Awards, Emmys and Golden Globe) but her ability to really put together a great project (Dorothy Dandridge.) What I see posts saying is she is in the perfect position to make a huge change- not just for herself but for those who are up and coming. While we can still work on changing the system, she can really make a huge change. I happen to love Hallee and would love to see her in quality films again.

It's not asking those who have been discriminted against to take responsibility for all the injustices. But if you recall hre Oscar speech, she cited all those who had paved the way for her. he is aware of what they sacraficed for her. She has the talent that many don't have to make a change.

Someone else posted that she currently has three projects under her helm. If the tide continues in her favor- and anyon'es favor who has been the victim of racism, isn't that better for all of us who work tirelessly for civil rights?

I mean, seriously, is it wrong to want to see her succeess in order show those who doubted her how horrible they were. It wouod be more of a statement to say because of the racism in this industrym I am doing this. We already know there is racism, but there are millions in this country who refuse to see it. The statement isn't for us- it's to them.

Working in education, I am constantly working on projects to bring more money in. I can't tell you how many times I hear the most blanketed sttements. I always tell my kids thay have to stand strong and show those who dubted them how wrong they were.

That is really what is in the hearts of most people on the DU board, even those who aren't always so elegant in how they phrase theyir wording. There have been so many heated posts that probably could have been resolved by asking us to reread our statements or what we meant. Please, don't assume that all of us are biggots. We really aren't.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

362. I don't agree with you

that "African Americans are quite able to determine who,is and who is not prejudiced"; at least not if, as I think, you are implying that their judgement in such matters is worth more than others.

I don't think that just because X is white and Y is black, Y's judgement about what is and isn't racism is ipse facto any better than X's.

There is a tendency to assume that all or most denials that a given attitude or person is racist are themselves signs of racism. I'm not accusing you of this, but I think you're going perilously far in that direction.

There was no racist material in the original post, and to say that "the kind of anger he showed was a red flag", although I do agree that the choice of alias is arguably an amber one. Accusing someone of racism because "I know his sort" is foolish, though, I think.

[Tomee450]

368. Well, I think

people who experience racism in their daily lives have no difficulty whatsoever in recognizing it. It doesn't take me long at all to tell if someone is prejudiced. I have lived and worked among whites who really were uninformed about discrimination since they had had few or no black acquaintances and did not live among blacks. They were not prejudiced however, and when racism was brought up, they listened. Some later told me that they became more aware of the problem after being acquainted with African Americans on the job.

You have a perfect right to your opinion but the tone and content of that particular post would be a red flag to most African Americans. I have friends who never post here but lurk often. All of them feel exactly as I do about that poster.

[Karenina]

373. Those Xs who have never experienced

being the target of racism are in NO position to dictate or define what it is. I find your judgement flawed as the post in question reeked of a familiar stench that you clearly do not recognize, or perhaps perceive as lavender. Different strokes... :eyes:

[ultraist]

188. WTF?

WTF is this supposed to accomplish?
"The moderators do delete posts here at DU. I haven't cited you, but others might it you directly call them racists."

Don't call out racism on the board or you will get deleted? Sorry. I will continue to call out racism when I see it. It's NOT ok to post racist remarks. Making veiled threats to people to keep them from calling out racism is pretty strange.

[Kerrytravelers]

195. I feel as if you are attempting to argue with me...

so I will no longer be responding, no matter what you call me.

This includes, but is not limited to biggot, republican, racist, strange, or anything else designed to ignight an argument. I have said nothing to you to in anyway argue, yet your posts directed at me has been.

[Solon]

117. You don't deserve that avatar...

When you tar and feather the man it represents. I'm white, and even I see the obvious racism in your post. That is soooo disgusting :puke:

[jeffrey_X]

329. He definitely shouldn't be using that avatar.

what a tool.

[tjdee]

142. They ARE racist.

They are. It wouldn't matter whether she made another friggin "The Hours" instead of "Catwoman", the fact remains that producers ARE very much tuned into race and WILL NOT offer similar parts to actors of all races.

[mvd]

149. Yes, celebs make mistakes sometimes

I don't think that's a racist statement. But many up-and-coming minorities do find themselves limited in choices, and that is wrong!

Personally, I think Halle's quite pretty, but like Catherine Zeta-Jones, Nicole Kidman, and some other big-name actresses, she doesn't do a lot for me.

[Tomee450]

156. You certainly are angry

but liberal? You don't know anything about the choices Halle has had to make. What if she hasn't been offered better roles. Denzel Washington said he does not receive the kind of offers that other white actors receive. Are you angry at him also for stating that fact. It seems that some one rather make excuses to justify the racism that is a reality in this country. For some it's always blaming the black person for the racial discrimination that he experiences.

[ultraist]

180. You are NOT a liberal

What an outrageous thing to say, "I am so sick of African Americans or other minorities blaming racism..."

I cannot believe all of the fucking RACISM I see here on DU. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. GET FUCKING EDUCATED.

I grew up in an upper class WHITE family and I have been able to break out of my white privilege enough to have some understanding of racism and how it seeps into our thought processes.

LIBERAL MY ASS!

[DougieZero]

292. Halle Berry is silly

I thought her Oscar speech was really bad as If it was some sort of epic moment in history “this moment is so much bigger than me“ and hysterical crying. She gave that same speech at the Golden Globes the year before. She was a top model, Homecoming queen, was miss Teen USA, runner up to Miss World and won plenty of acting awards before her Oscar. Hell... She was even in the Flintstones back in the early 90's. She isn't struggling...

Her film choices after Monsters Ball have been awful and her A-list celebrity status is fading... That's show business kid.

[AirAmFan]

293. "AS IF it were some epic moment"? She was the FIRST African-American

woman EVER to win an Oscar for Best Actress in a Leading Role! See also post #112.

I'd also recommend that you take a look at Donald Bogle's classic film history, "Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies, and Bucks". American cinema has been a prime vehicle for promoting racial stereotyping, racial segregation, racial discrimination, racial prejudice, and LYNCHING, ever since its turn-of-the-century origins. Have you seen "Birth of a Nation", "Uncle Tom's Cabin", Stepin Fetchit, Bill Robinson in Shirley Temple movies, Mantan Moreland's rolling eyes in Charlie Chan movies, Aunt Jemima in "Stand Up and Cheer", Ethel Waters in "Pinkie", or Hattie McDaniel in "Gone with the Wind"? These are the images of African-Americans your parents and grandparents grew up with, and the probable main source of the racial attitudes they apparently transmitted to you.

Hattie McDaniel won the Best Actress-Supporting Oscar for her 1939 role in GWTW. Other than Hattie McDaniel and Whoopi Goldberg (1990), Halle Berry (2001) is the ONLY African-American woman ever to win a Best Actress Oscar, and the ONLY one of the three to take the Leading Role Oscar.

Given Hollywood's history of RACIST ABUSE of African-Americans onscreen and behind the camera, I'd say Halle Berry's Oscar WAS HISTORIC, wouldn't you?

I just can't believe the LEVEL OF IGNORANCE on this board sometimes.

[DougieZero]

294. I'm not a racist

I've seen and own most of the movies you mentioned, the ones that are available at least. Hollywood mimicked the times, it was even worse on Vaudeville with the dialect humor and blackface acts, even Mickey Rooney wore blackface at one point. I know all about Griffith's Birth of a Nation, I think it was even a favorite of the president at the time (can't remember which one).

Looking back, it was really awful and seems really dated and awkward... even Groucho Marx was laughing at "Darkies" in Duck Soup. Disney has shelved Song of the South in embarrassment.

All I’m saying is Halle Berry not getting great scripts anymore is more to do with Box-Office than racism.

[Tomee450]

300. Halle

"All I’m saying is Halle Berry not getting great scripts anymore is more to do with Box-Office than racism."

But how can you be so sure of that when she is dealing with an industry known for its discriminatory practices. Why automatically dismiss Halle's charges. As has been shown many times on this thread, other blacks have had the same problems.

[AirAmFan]

302. And African-Americans draw HUGE box-office, even though they

are tightly restricted in the roles for which they're allowed to read. Samuel L. Jackson recently became the all-time box-office draw leader, surpassing Harrison Ford (see post #199 for a URL link).

So, rather than being box-office driven, continued restriction of African-Americans to roles written for them by culturally insensitive scriptwriters well MAY BE COSTING STUDIOS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

[Tomee450]

306. Samuel Jackson

Thanks for the link.

I'm glad Jackson is so successful. He is a very good actor.

"So, rather than being box-office driven, continued restriction of African-Americans to roles written for them by culturally insensitive scriptwriters well MAY BE COSTING STUDIOS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS."

Clearly proves that the racists will act against their own best interest.

[Karenina]

310. It would behoove you

to re-read your own post #292 again. It's another example of how a "first and/or only is attacked and belittled. What's the name of that river in Egypt again?

[Tomee450]

303. Halle

"I just can't believe the LEVEL OF IGNORANCE on this board sometimes."

Truly shocking, and sad.

Great post but there are many people with closed minds.

[AirAmFan]

305. IMO the good news in this thread is that it really is IGNORANCE, rather

than some kind of racial animus, that explains all but maybe one or two of the racially insnsitive posts here.

And ignorance can be lessened at teachable moments. I like to think that a few people have learned something from the history and personal feelings posters like you have shared here.

[Tomee450]

307. I would like to

be optimistic, but I'm not. There is an undercurrent of real bigotry to some of these posts, IMO.

[Karenina]

311. Undercurrent???

Looks like sea foam to me! ;-) :wow: :freak: :wow:

[Tomee450]

326. Yes

Some of the posts are quite revealing.

[Tomee450]

298. Oh she's silly eh?

I've heard that before. They're silly, they're whiners, they don't take responsibility, they make poor choices, they're too old, they're mediocre. All hurled at blacks who,tired of discrimination, dare to speak out. It's so easy to blame the victim isn't it. Much easier to discard all the available information and deny that discrimination is a potent factor in the lives of African Americans.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

351. RESPONSE FROM ORIGINAL POSTER.

So, it looks like I raised the hackles of a few folks around here. A couple of questions for those who had problems with my post:

1.) Why do you automatically assume that my ethnicity is caucasian? My user name suggests white, but my avatar is African-American. Are you suggesting that an African-American or some other minority could not possibly believe in personal responsibility? Didn't you employ stereotypes in making your supposition on my racial background? And, as a result, weren't you being a little racist in the process?

2.) Using the logic of those who argue that racism is an extenuating factor for the poor choices that some people make, does this mean that we should IMMEDIATELY excuse/exonerate the illegal/unethical actions of the following people:

Condi Rice, Alberto Gonzales, Colin Powell, OJ Simpson, etc. (add the name of any minority that was PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT to be guilty of a crime or unethical behavior).

3.) By assuming that racism excuses personal action of those who are oppressed, are you indicating that these persons have no freewill? If this is the case, then how could the civil rights movement have started in the first place (e.g., Greensboro, NC. lunch counter sit-in)?


Respectfully,
JB

[AirAmFan]

352. Off-topic, casuistic, and WEAK

The topic is racism among Hollywood producers, and the stereotypical and degrading roles Halle Berry has been forced to play, not OJ.

Hollywood prducers decide which projects to "greenlight", and who gets to read for what roles. Even though African-Americans bring Hollywood huge box-offices (post #199), and Halle Berry has won a recent Oscar for Best Actress in a Leading Role, she apparently has not been offered any major-studio roles better than "Catwoman". At least she didn't have to wear a platinum-blonde wig, as she did in "X-Men" and sequels.

Have you learned NOTHING from more than 350 posts in this thread?

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

355. Last time I looked the NUMBER ONE movie this week had an all AA cast

"Are We There Yet" with an all African-American cast was number one last week. Additionally, the TOP movie at Sundance this year has an African-American cast. I guess this is proof positive of racism in Hollywood?

Berry CHOSE to be in Catwoman. No one forced her to do it, and I can bet my house that she's not lacking in movie offers and scripts. PERIOD. Her carping about racism is nothing more than a publicity stunt...given the number of posts in this tread it seems to be working.

I've learned alot from the prior posts. Particularly, the fact that knee-jerk liberalism is no better than rampant conservatism.

JB

[Karenina]

360. Great word, AirAmFan

in a VERY Deutsch, subtleties of language kinda way. Don't see that precision so often in Englisch. ;-) WHERE IS THAT BILL DUKE, ANYWAY?

It is further testimony to the entrenched racist mindset that anyone could read this L-O-N-G thread in its entirety and NOT even think about questioning his assumptions. :-(

[AirAmFan]

366. Not as great or subtle as "allgemeine social hierarchy", but thank you

I've been waiting for DECADES to use that word in context. For some reason, the post I was responding to made me remember a phrase I think I read in high school, spoken by some 18th century British parliamentary orator: "a sophistical rhetorician, inebriated by the exuberance of his own casuistry".

[Karenina]

359. How DARE that high-yellow girl

accept a role she MAY have thought would turn out well at the time. It is clear your understanding of the dynamics of filmmaking is quite limited.

1.) If it quacks like a duck...

2.) STRAWMEN

3.) Heh? :freak: Could you elaborate? Perhaps I am too lacking in
"personal responsibility to comprehend your analogy.

Your posts communicate nothing but contempt for "the other."

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

367. Sorry, I attempted to clarify my position...

Again, any reasonable discussion of personal responsibility is negated by reflexive epithets of "racist" and the like.

Well, I've got news for ya! I'M BLACK. I was born and raised in Memphis, TN. I've been the recipient of institutionalized racism since I was born, but I also believe that I have a PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my actions. Injustices abound for all, be you black, white, Jewish, Polish, or whatever...but how are we expected to arise above the injustices of others when we fail to recognize that WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR OURSELVES.

I'm done with this thread...some people just don't get it.

JB

[Karenina]

378. So somehow, in your mind

Halle accepting the role in Catwoman (to continue working) is forevermore the indicator of her NOT TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY (even if upon reading the script SHE thought or was advised it might be OK... ya know, it's a L-O-N-G train ride from script to final cut and as an actor there are LOTS of milk stops over which you have NO control). So maybe it was a shit film (I didn't see it) but her participation allows you to be judge, jury, executioner and spit on her as some kind of fallen woman? OK, I think I get it. You must be VERY disappointed that she's NOT Mother Theresa. Guess I'm lucky, I never expected that of her. BTW don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[fishwax]

379. And Emma Thompson was in JUNIOR!

Which, in case anyone has forgotten, was a movie in which Arnold Schwarzenegger carried a baby to term. That didn't kill her career.

Who knows what kind of rolls Berry was offered in lieu of Catwoman?

And even if her choices were poor, does that disprove that hollywood is racist?

[AirAmFan]

112. From the amount of racial IGNORANCE and BIAS IN THIS THREAD,

right here on a supposedly progressive board of political sophisticates, Halle Berry's case for racism in Hollywood and in this country is woefully UNDERSTATED.

Before Halle Berry in 2001, no African-American woman EVER had won the Oscar for Best Actress in a leading role. . Search the Oscars database yourself, back to 1927, at http://www.oscars.org/awardsdatabase/index.html . Look also at supporting roles and you'll find only Whoopie Goldberg (1990) and Hattie McDaniel (1939), neither of whom ever were on a glamorous path to "Leading Lady".

Look at the African-American men who've won Oscars and ask yourself two questions:

(1) Did they "get the girl"?

(2) What kind of roles did they get after winning the Oscar?

African-American men have done a bit better than African-American women in Hollywood because white writers for decades apparantly have enjoyed creating degrading Stepin Fetchit-type allegedly "comedic" roles for them. When have African-American actors ever gotten beyond the role of domestic servant, criminal, prostitute, comic, or song-and-dance man, beyond the occasional dramatic role here and there?

Look particularly at fine dramatic actors like Lou Gossett, who after winning his Oscar would have starved without potboilers like "Iron Eagle" I, II, III, ...

Hollywood still has a LONG LONG WAY to go

[Solon]

119. That's so true...

I remember watching the movie, the Pelican Brief, with Denzel Washington and Julia Roberts. I was so aggriavated by the end of the film, they changed what the book had in it, just to satisfy a racist audience. They left the romantic parts "up in the air".

[AirAmFan]

129. Denzel has been 'Gary-Coleman-ized' for SEVERAL of his starring roles

(Well at least we've been moved from LBN to another forum that a fair number of people visit--this could have turned out to be the California State Forum!)

Remember 'The Bone Collector'? To protect Angelina Jolie's White Christian Honor in that movie, her detective mentor Denzel Washington was made into a quadriplegic!

And it's also soignificant that when Denzel became the second African-American man to win an Oscar for Best Actor in a Leading Role, it was for 'Training Day", where he plays an inhuman monster, rather than for one of the films where he plays a more complete human being.

(The first African-American to win a Best Actor-Leading Role Oscar was Sidney Poiter in the 60s, for a movie where most of the female roles are NUNS!)

[tjdee]

140. He got to protect a little girl for Man on Fire!!

:)

[Solon]

141. I know, its is pathetic that hollywood does that to one...

of their best actors. I do find it dissapointing that they have to change the roles because of racial makeups of the cast or some other pathetic shit. I could maybe understand it in the '60s, but today, its the fucking 21st century for crying out loud, so no I don't really understand. Also, their is a double standard in this as well, there have been quite a few more movies about White men with minority women versus the reverse. The only exception I can think of are the movies Jungle Fever, and even the Replacement Killers as a recent example.

[tjdee]

138. And Julia had to REQUEST him.

She had the choice of who she wanted, and that's who she chose.

Tom Cruise chose Thandie Newton to be in MI2 (at the suggestion of Nicole Kidman) and wanted her for the third one.

For nothing else, she and Tom Cruise will always have a place in my heart for those choices.

[Solon]

148. Yeah, that movie killed me...

They had the chemistry going on, but couldn't act on it, it was aggrivating to me. BTW: Yes I am a cheesy romantic when it comes to movies, I like chick flicks too, and I'm a straight guy :shrug:

[Huckebein the Raven]

147. Wasn't it the same issue in the movie with

Morgan Freeman and Ashley Judd "Kiss the Girls" ?

[Solon]

150. Yes and no...

The only thing that would even justify that would be the age difference. To be honest, I was thinking throughout that movie that she had a father figure of sorts in it, so I can see not having a romance in the middle of it. Kinda like Tommy Lee Jones and her in Double Jeopardy, not a romance there either, I don't think.

[Old Mouse]

219. You are so right.

Not just Hollywood, a lot of people have a long way to go.

A black woman cries racism, and so many people are working so hard to defend or rationalize the racist system?

I shouldn't be shocked or surprized... but I am. Truly their first instinct is to blame the victim of racism?

And THIS is liberal America?

[Geek_Girl]

144. Halle Berry is One of the Most talented Actress in Hollywood today

It's a shame that the studios do not take advantage of her talent. She has the same screen quality as Audre Hepburn. Maybe she should stick to the Indy's. Hollywood is putting out mostly crap these days anyways.

[Toucano]

157. It's very hard for women

and especially hard for Black women. There aren't a lot of great roles for either.

I'm not sure that it's motivated by racism as much as the producers' feeble attempts to gauge the public taste. It's all about the benjamins with them.

Looking through her work, there's a fair amount of dogs there, but there are some good projects too. She's certainly had more than her share of "boobie" roles.

Other recent winners who've not had a good role since winning include:

Kathy Bates
Francis McDormand
Helen Hunt
Gwenyth Paltrow ("View From the Top"? "Duets"? Oy!)
and Hillary Swank (until this year)

I guess Halle is more qualified to say if she's a victim of racism than I am, but I don't think it's so unusual for winners to suffer dry spells. Oscar magic ain't all it's cracked up to be.

Personally, I'd rather see a lot more from Angela Basset, Pam Grier, and Alfre Woodard. Halle is more of a star than an actress, IMHO.

[AirAmFan]

168. I can see comparing Berry with Paltrow. But KATHY BATES?

Have you seen Halle Berry's starring role in "Introducing Dorothy Dandridge"? Like Halle Berry, Dorothy Dandridge was a stunningly beautiful African American actress who aspired to play galmorous leading roles, not a character actor like Kathy Bates or Frances McDormand.

The issue film historians see in Dandridge's career -- and the issue many movie fans see in Halle Berry's career -- is Hollywood's FEAR of the beauty and talent of African Americans. Compare Halle's inability to find a better role than Catwoman with the attention and roles lavished on Whoopie Goldberg during the 90s, after she followed Hattie McDaniel to become the second African-American woman to win an Oscar. Whoopie Goldberg, like Hattie McDaniel, posed no threat to the blonde "gold standard" of beauty in Hollywood movies. Like Dorothy Dandridge, Halle Berry DOES.

There's apparently been little progess in Hollywood in FIFTY YEARS wneh it comes to accepting beautiful African American women for glamorous leading roles. Life is continuing to imitate art, as in Halle Berry's biopic of DD.

[Toucano]

175. The category is

ACTRESS WHO'VE WON ACADEMY AWARDS FOR BEST ACTRESS WHO'VE HAD DRY SPELLS for $1,000, Alex.

Bates fits the category.

The award is for ACTING, not for BEING GOOD LOOKING. That's what the People's Choice Awards are for. :) Or the MTV Movie Awards.

As I said, Halle's had some good roles and some bad roles. Her performance as Dorthy Dandridge was actually BETTER than her performance in "Monster's Ball", IMO. That's why she won the Emmy and the SAG award for that.

The Academy doesn't award beauty. "Glamorous leading roles" don't generally earn a nomination. Look at Charlize Theron and Hillary Swank's winning performances.

My point was that there aren't enough good roles for women PERIOD. Much less for Black women. That's why I said she's more qualified to judge the situation than I am.

As I've pointed out, not getting good roles after winning the Oscar is not - in and of itself- so unusual.

[AirAmFan]

183. No -- the question is why hasn't HALLE BERRY gotten more work

of the kind that comparable Oscar-winners have gotten. And the only comparable actress you've cited STILL is Gwyneth Paltrow.

The fact that no African-American actress EVER won for Best Actress Leading Role in seventy-some years of history before Halle Berry ought to indicate to you that race plays a role. And the fact you can't come up with more names than Gwyneth Paltrow's indicates that not being offered worthwhile post-Oscar roles is not so common. And did Paltrow turn down roles or choose unwisely?

[Toucano]

191. That's not the question at all.

We're not even having the same conversation apparently.

Halle has had four major motion pictures in 2 years. She's getting work.

The complaint is she's not getting Oscar-worthy roles.

I wasn't charged with naming actresses who you think are pretty who've won Oscars, so let me give this to you one last time: It isn't unheard of for actresses - regardless of their age, physical beauty, cup size, or race - to have a period where they aren't offered Oscar worthy roles after winning the award.

I really don't see how you can argue with that.

[AirAmFan]

194. "Whoopie Goldberg got PLENTY of work after her 1990 Oscar

for Best Supporting, so racism CANNOT be a factor" in Halle Berry's drought of worthy scripts. Is that what you're trying to tell me?

And Whoopie's sole predecessor as female African-American Best Actress Oscar winner--Hattie McDaniel--how did she do after being awarded her Oscar?

Please read the lead-in to this thread before accusing ME of jumping off-topic.

[Toucano]

233. Are you sure you're responding to the correct post?

I don't see where I said anything about Whoopi.

But since you brought her up, her career actually supports my argument.

Whoopi won in 1990 but didn't have another Oscar-worthy role until 1996 with "Ghosts of Mississippi". She did work plenty in the intervening years turning in performances in some of her biggest grossing projects. I'm sure she knew "Made in America" and "Sister Act" weren't going to get her a nomination.

Again, however, Halle is the only one really qualified to say if she's not getting Oscar worthy roles because she's black. I'm simply pointing out that racism may not be the only factor because what she's experiencing isn't so unusual for actresses of all colors.

Oscar doesn't work magic for a lot of careers.

[Kerrytravelers]

170. After reading through the posts here, I've made an observation.

No one here is a member of the KKK with hoods and sheets, even if we all view this event differently.

Some feel that in her position, Halle should take, as I called it, a proactive stance, creating her own projects that further her career and the careers of minorities by creating projects that bring strength. Independent film is the way to go, especially with the crap put out by the studios. Think about how many people got their start in independent, only to lose sight of their careers with studio films.

Many here think that she shold definetly speak up, but has no responsibility to start her own production company because it is the job of the studios and the American people to correct the unjustices in the world. After decades, it is sad that people still have to experience such racism, especially after earning the awards and the box office such as Halle.

In the end, no matter how everyone feels, we must take responsibility for our own destinies. How we do that is up to each individual person. No one kows what is right for Halle Berry- except Halle Berry herself.

I would like to dialog become how can we all work together instead of tearing one another apart for taking different views. This thread has been quite heated because many have taen the postings of others as a direct personal attack. Remember, most of us don't know one another. It's not personal. Our thoughts can only refelct our life experiences and what we know. I highly doubt anyone here has biggotry in their heart, but rather we all tend to come to DU to learn from others of like mind and to grow in our knowledge by gaining form other's personal experiences and stories.

Peace and Strength.

Kerrytravelers.

[Tomee450]

176. But I will be quite

honest with you, your attitude does not help. Whether you realize it or not, you come across as someone who thinks she is of higher status, someone who feels very qualified to preach to people whose shoes she has never worn. I deeply resent it when someone tells blacks to take responsibility. That is the constant refrain hurled at us. LET ME STATE IT PLAINLY, AFRICAN AMERICANS DO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. And our speaking out to expose racism is not an attempt to avoid anything.
Halle's experience is quite common in this country. Talented and educated black people are constantly denied the same opportunities as their white counterparts. There is so much evidence that supports that assertion. Some however, are much more comfortable with blaming black people for some of the problems they face which are a direct result of racial discrimination. Halle is speaking out. She is not trying to avoid responsibly.

The attitude of certain individuals on this board are little different from those found at right wing forums. Quite troubling.

[Kerrytravelers]

179. After reading my post above...

if you would call me a racist or any such slur, than you are simply someone who only wants to see the negatice and who wants to be a victim. I have no knowledge of you, whether you are male, female, black ,white, brown, green, purple, rich, poor, thin, heavy, immigrant or whatever.

Continue to feel I am against you. That is fine if that is what you need. I will continue fighting for Democratic values, for women's rights, homosexual nd lesbian rights, for minority rights, for education. I have my eye on moving ahead and doing all I can to better the lives of people- for those around me and for those I'll never know. That is the goal of 99.999% of the people on this board.

You continue feeling that I and others here are biggots if you need to. I know I"m not and I know that the people on this board are not.

Good luck to you.

[Tomee450]

187. And so now you

accuse me of playing the victim. Isn't that just what O'Reily and Limbaugh do? Indeed, that is the constant refrain of most of the conservative pundits. Any black person who tells the truth about their daily experiences with racism is accused of playing the victim. Oh yes, just keep quiet you blacks, accept your fate, be content with second class citizenship.

[Kerrytravelers]

196. That's ok, I"ll be the thread biggots if you need one.

As I stated, I didn't kow your race. Not that it would matter. But, if you need someone to be the bad guy, I'll do it. Go ahead and be as angry as you'd like. It doen't bother me. Of the 63k some odd people on these boards, it won't be hard to find others to have conversations with that move past name calling and into a new level of understanding.

But thats ok, just make me the biggot. Somehow, I'll find a way to manage.

[Tomee450]

203. I'll refrain from

calling you anything. I don't know what is in your heart. However, your posts and those of certain others, show a woeful lack of understanding of what life is like for black people in America. Most African Americans do not enjoy talking about racism. They just want equal opportunities and a chance at a decent life for themselves and their families.

[Kerrytravelers]

204. Refrain? hy stop now? You've done a marvelous job of calling

anyone who has a differnet opinion plenty. I've seen portion of sentences (mine and others) quoted, assumptions made and hints of "biggot" being thrown around. If something was unclear or poorly written, unlike other threads where people ask "is this what you meant" the automatic assumption is that the posters are biggots.

If that's the kind of board you want, then that is really ok. I choose to ask people what they meant and to move forward. I often find in regard to religion, I ask people, "is this what you mean" or "I see where you are going, but approach it from this vantage point." Many people here misunderstand religion, but I don't take it as if they are aginst me or woefully lacking in understanding, but rather I give them the benefit of the doubt in terms of what they wrote. It is often the practive of myself and others to assume people here aren't biggoted, interms of color, religion, etc and often discover the position they take is unique to their experiences and ask them why, rather then accuse them of.

I will no longer be checking this board. As I said, using me as the board biggot is fine. There are plenty of people here with whom I communicate with on a regular basis or who know me in real life having worked with me in our local politics who know the reality and will see these boards in that particular light.

[Toucano]

178. That's very astute.

You might be gratified to know Halle has 3 producer credits on upcoming projects.

"Lackawanna Blues"
"Foxy Brown"
and "Nappily Ever After".

Seems like she's taking responsibility for her destiny and that of the next generation. :)

[Kerrytravelers]

181. Great!

I saw an advertisemnt for Lackawanna Blues on HBO and thought it looked good. I'm glad to see it. I hope it continues! As a woman, i love to see women take charge and call the shots! :bounce:

[ultraist]

185. Racism is not just about the white hoods

I have seen a lot of racism on this board. The level of awareness among some here simply is not very high.

We have evidence of racism right on this thread: people posting that it is wrong for Halle Berry to speak out, 'Halle Berry shouldn't make a scene' Halle Berry made bad choices, therefore racism doesn't exist, "I'm so sick of African Americans and other minorities blaming racism..." yada, yada, yada...this is white privilege speak. NO QUESTION about it.

COME ON!

How can anyone be wrong to speak out against racism? OBVIOUSLY Halle Berry has worked extremely hard to get to where she is and against the odds, has become very succesful. She HAS been proactive and taken the lead. And I hope she continues to speak out.

[fishwax]

382. Actually, Paltrow has done rather well for herself

Duets was an opportunity for her to work with her father, who directed it, so there's no reason to hold that against her.

The Talented Mr. Ripley was a financial and critical success, and Bounce with Ben Affleck also had commercial appeal. In addition to that she's gotten to work with several "hot" directors, from the Farrelly Brothers (Shallow Hal) to Wes Anderson (Royal Tennanbaums) and Neil Labute (Possession).

So I don't see that her situation compares at all with Berry.

[Solly Mack]

189. not to state the obvious or anything

but don't ya think Halle Berry would know more about what she has experienced than we would?

Another thing...if racism exist in America (and it does..in all areas of America), why would those who work in the movies somehow be immune to being racist? Are people truly saying that not a single producer or director in Hollywood is racist? How can you possibly know that?

[ultraist]

190. EXACTLY! And KUDOS to Halle Berry for having the courage to SPEAK OUT!

Having a public figure speak out about racism helps to LIFT THE VEIL OF DENIAL.

[ChairOne]

193. I suspect that a large part of theatrical-institutional racism....

... is market-driven. Generally speaking, white folks prefer to watch other white folks - that's who they think of as "like them" or "everyday joe" or whatever.

And since there's a lot more white folks than black folks....

[Tomee450]

197. You may

be correct but I wonder. After all, young whites sometimes wear black style of dressing, sometimes wear the black hair style,also. They listen to and buy music by black artists. In fact, most rap music is purchased by whites. Could it be possible that whites feel comfortable watching whites because they rarely see anything different? Maybe it's the racists attitudes of those who produce and direct the movies that is part of the problem. White people have even adopted black slang and made it their own.

[aneerkoinos]

220. Yep

And few decades ago white folks painted their faces black and performed minstrel shows. It's a complicated issue with many subtleties.

Watch Spike Lee's 'Bamboozled', it's very much on the topic of black people's designated (by main stream) cultural role as enterteiners, in other words hippety hoppety circus monkeys, to put in the most unsubtle way. And not actors to be cast e.g. in the roles of authentic people is serious drama, unless there's a comfy racial issue involved whereby Hollywood can prove it's own "tolerance".

[Solly Mack]

198. I would think so as well

and making a profit by pandering to the prejudices of people (and it is pandering) would naturally bleed over to minority actors and actresses.

So while Halle Berry could have played Miss Congeniality or Runaway Bride, she wouldn't have been offered the role because of the intended targeted audience...who would not have accepted Halle Berry in that role. Though ever so many will deny such a thing.

Sort of the "mainstream movie" to the "mainstream audience", where the "mainstream audience" is considered mainly white.

But then that's Ms Berry's point...she would like to be offered those roles. Race isn't essential to many, if not most, storylines. Nor should it be a consideration.

Another thing:

Why was it ok for Berry to bed Billy Bob (Monster's Ball), but not ok for Denzel to bed Julia in Pelican Brief? Denzel's role was a white guy in the book, who had a romance with Julia's character....but when they changed the race of Denzel's character for the movie, they also took out the romance between the two.

Oh, but I guess there was no pandering to a potentially racist audience there... :eyes:

.... or maybe it's just a case of not offending sensibilities..yeah, that's it. (ho hum)

[ultraist]

200. Hollywood producers may be further behind than society is

I'm not so sure though, judging by some comments I've read made by supposed liberals. But let's be real, what white woman doesn't think Denzel is sexy? Yet, they did not show a sex scene with him and a white woman? Plaaaaheeeze.

I think they are behind the curve but I also think the white majority market prefers not to see blacks in "certain" roles in general. We couldn't have successful, wealthy blacks all over the screens, now could we? We must keep "them" in their place and that includes on the big screen. I mean, we've got Oprah right? That proves that blacks can become successful and barriers don't matter.

[Solly Mack]

202. I was ticked they cut the romance out! Oh, they allowed the "tension"

but cut the actual physical contact.



Some of the responses have been, shall we say, not well thought out? Wouldn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities now would we...


I'm watching Denzel now in "Remember the Titans".

[Boosterman]

223. Seems Denzel should be griping here

Although I suppose in hindsight Halle Berry might object to Billy Bob.

Actually I suspect chairone is right. I am fairly sure they use formulas to crank out all the crap they produce now anyways. Audience demographics is going to be a huge component of any such formula. Therefore if the perception amongst Hollywood producers is such that they think "no white man wants to see a black man taking one of our women" but they wont have a problem with Halle Berry because shes hot....well is the problem with society or is it with the producers themselves.

[Solly Mack]

277. Society as a whole is the problem

I think more people are racist than like to admit. I would say *I know* more people are racist than would like to admit, but saying I think gives people wiggle room to explain why they aren't...and I'm snarky enough to perversely enjoy the wiggling. Because I get tired of hearing outrage over racism made with racist comments. That might sound contradictory, but it isn't. Happens all the time.

I think producers pander to the audience...which would include pandering to the prejudices of the intended audience. So, yes, producers are also doing their share in making the problem worse.

In addition to that, chances are(hollywood as a microcosm) there do exist producers and directors who are racist...which would cause even more problems for minority actors/actresses.

[Boosterman]

286. Oh theres plenty of prejuidice

Of all sorts. Bias and bigotry abound in some segments of the population. I am just not sure the best course of dealing with it. I also think theres plenty of people who dont care one way or another. Just not sure of any numbers on it. I know racism is growing in my area.

[AirAmFan]

199. Then how did Samuel L. Jackson just pass Harrison Ford as all-time

top movie box-office gross draw champion? Even limited to roles as buddies, dope-dealers, athletes, etc., African-Americans draw plenty of moviegoers. African-Americans themselves are even a big, disproportionate part of the moviegoing public, two or three times their prevalence in US society at large.

I suspect it is the racial IGNORANCE of white writers, and the failure of white producers to hire minority writers, that explains why there are so few roles specifically tailored for minorities. And when roles aren't specifically written for minority actors, they tend not to even be allowed to read for them. This seems to be the specific form that much of institutionalized racism takes in Hollywood today. Having never lived close to any African-Americans, or had any close minority friends, the vast majority of white writers of screenplays don't know how they might talk or what they might feel. Kind of like most posters on this board.

On Jackson's recent box-office milestone, see http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/box%20office%20king%20jackson%20bounces%20in%20on%20top :

"BOX OFFICE KING JACKSON BOUNCES IN ON TOP

SAMUEL L JACKSON has added another $23.6 million (GBP12.4 million) to his impressive $6 billion-plus total box office tally after scoring a surprise hit in American movie theatres. The PULP FICTION star ... passed HARRISON FORD as the biggest grossing movie star of all time at the end of last year (04)..."

[BikeWriter]

212. Hell, I'll write more black parts into my books. :-)

[Old Mouse]

218. But he had to start in the self-degrading role

of the jive-speaking black man in Airplane.

[ultraist]

201. Why?

"Generally speaking, white folks prefer to watch other white folks--"

Let's assume your statement above is true, why do you think white folks prefer to watch other white folks?

[Solly Mack]

236. and you know, if that is discussed...

and I mean really delved into, what the answer will be

it's a "comfort zone" issue... and then we have to delve into what makes for a comfort zone...and the more we delve, the more we'll find areas of prejudice

[ultraist]

266. mmmhhhhmmmm... not likely that questioned will get answered, is it?

')

[Solly Mack]

275. I'm trying to spark interest

:)

But no, can't be answered if it's not even discussed...

[aneerkoinos]

208. Spike Lee

Anyone seen Bamboozled by Spike Lee?

[Tomee450]

304. Yes

It was a good movie but left me rather sad.

[SoCalDem]

210. Good roles for ANY woman over 25 are difficult to get unless

they produces it themselves.. There are a scant few women who can get good parts.. The sad truth is that most movies are aimed at 12-18 yr old MALES, and most of them want to look at the perky young things..

The "older" actresses are pretty much relegated to "sob-fests", "disease of the week" dramas or playing somebody who is 10 yrs younger than them's mother..or the wise-cracking secretary..

Halle's good, but she better get used to "character" work..It's got to be doubly hard for black actresses.. but the black men who have not already achieved super-stardom, have the same troubles as she does.

The movies cost zillions of buck to make, and the "business" side of the industry wants to make a TON of money back, so they cater to what the masses will pay..

[Old Mouse]

215. I am shocked at the comments

Her role in Monster's Ball was in a picture that had a specific tone about race. Her main point was that no matter how popular with audiences, or talented, or sexy she might be, in order to have a significant starring dramatic role that was not in a racially themed movie, she would have to produce the film herself.

Percentage of black blood? Black is black. If you can tell by looking at you, your black. Otherwise you "pass"

The money she's made? That's part of her point. There is never enough money to give you parity of race.

I find many of the posts staggering in intolerance and a lack of education of the black situation in modern America.

[Karenina]

221. Your comment is sincerely appreciated, Old Mouse.

Dropped mah dern jaw upthread aways...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

222. Bingo.

Studies have show, across the board, that no matter how educated, talented, high ranking a minority is, their pay NEVER is equal to the pay of a white person in the exact same situation with the exact same qualifications.

But I guess because she earns money she should get down on her knees and thank gawd that the white world has chosen to give her ANYTHING and thank them for being so generous.

[Charon]

228. Bingo

Did this study take into account the pay and allowances that a Minority officer's and enlisted personel of the armed services receive. Do not ever remember seeing a DoD pay scale marked "White" or "Minority"?

[newportdadde]

231. Well I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy here for Halle.

She is a millionare, an oscar winner, and in my opion extremely over rated.

She has basically made a living being fawned over hottie if not taking her clothes off in Swordfish then getting rough doggie humped by Billy Bob Thorton in Monsters Ball. Sorry but that makes it hard for me to take her seriously.

[Karenina]

237. Another BINGO

White America does NOT take talented black women "seriously." We are whores, anomalies, aberrants, peculiarities, anachronisms and DEFINITELY do not DESERVE to be taken "seriously" by the dominant culture. Thank you for stating it so clearly.

[Solly Mack]

242. You do know Ms Berry has not made a career out

of nude scenes and sex scenes, right?

Actress - filmography
(In Production) (2000s) (1990s) (1980s)

The Guide (2005) (in production) .... Jane Whitefield
Foxy Brown (2005) (announced) .... Foxy Brown
Nappily Ever After (2005) (announced) .... Venus Johnson
Their Eyes Were Watching God (2005) (TV) (completed) .... Janie
Robots (2005) (completed) (voice) .... Cappy
... aka Robots: The IMAX Experience (USA: IMAX version)


Catwoman (2004) .... Patience Phillips/Catwoman
Gothika (2003) .... Miranda Grey
X2 (2003) .... Storm/Ororo Munroe
... aka X-Men 2 (Singapore: English title) (USA: working title)
... aka X-2 (USA: poster title)
... aka X-Men 2: X-Men United (USA: promotional title)
... aka X2: X-Men United (USA: promotional title)
Die Another Day (2002) .... Jinx Johnson
... aka D.A.D. (USA: promotional abbreviation)
Monster's Ball (2001) .... Leticia Musgrove
... aka Bal du monstre, Le (Canada: French title)
Swordfish (2001) .... Ginger
X-Men (2000) .... Storm
... aka X-Men 1.5 (USA: DVD title)


Introducing Dorothy Dandridge (1999) (TV) .... Dorothy Dandridge
Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1998) .... Zola Taylor
Bulworth (1998) .... Nina
The Wedding (1998) (TV) .... Shelby Coles
... aka Oprah Winfrey Presents: The Wedding
B*A*P*S (1997) .... Nisi
... aka B.A.P.S.
The Rich Man's Wife (1996) .... Josie Potenza
Race the Sun (1996) .... Miss Sandra Beecher
Executive Decision (1996) .... Jean, Flight Attendant
... aka Critical Decision
Losing Isaiah (1995) .... Khaila Richards
Solomon & Sheba (1995) (TV) .... Nikhaule/Queen Sheba
The Flintstones (1994) .... Sharon Stone
The Program (1993) .... Autumn Haley
Father Hood (1993) .... Kathleen Mercer
... aka Desperado
... aka Honor Among Thieves
... aka Mike Hardy
"Queen" (1993) (mini) TV Series .... Queen
... aka Alex Haley's Queen
Boomerang (1992) .... Angela Lewis
"Knots Landing" (1979) TV Series .... Debbie Porter (1991)
The Last Boy Scout (1991) .... Cory
Strictly Business (1991) .... Natalie
Jungle Fever (1991) .... Vivian


"Living Dolls" (1989) TV Series .... Emily Franklin (1989)

[kwassa]

244. You apparently missed the performance that won her the Oscar

Halle did a great deal more in "Monster's Ball" than having sex with Billy Bob. Did you actually see the movie?

She was also excellent in "Introducing Dorothy Dandridge".

[Solly Mack]

245. and "Losing Isaiah"

and "Bulworth"

Halle Berry is versatile...exactly what an actress should be.

[Tomee450]

248. Oh yes,

here we go again. A black person's money being discussed. A rich black person is expected to take any kind of abuse and be happy, after all, he is rich. Unbelievable.

[ScaRBama]

232. There are very few good roles.....

no matter what color a person is.

[UdoKier]

238. Yes, many of them undoubtedly are...

... but what responsibility does Halle take for appearing in a piece of racist dreck like Monster's Ball?

I was amazed that she would throw her dignity in the toilet to play a character like that, and THEN have that awful performance be validated by the academy shocked me even more.

I like Halle Berry a LOT before Monster's Ball and that other POS with Travolta where she flashed her tits. There are a lot of other black actresses out there who have kept their dignity. They may have had to settle for "B" player status, but they deserve respect.

When Halle decided to take the Sharon Stone/Basic Instinct route to stardom she lost me as a fan.

[ultraist]

267. Ooooh! This is HARSH!

WHAT female actress HASN'T used her sex appeal other than Kathy Bates?

Halle Berry has been very conservative about showing flesh compared to MOST female actresses.

Why on earth would you say, "she threw her dignity away by playing in Monster's Ball?" PLEASE explain your reasoning behind that remark.

:wow:

[UdoKier]

272. Aside from the degrading sex scene with the repulsive Billy Bob...

There was the fact that the film was the same old same old story of black woman meets white guy and depends on him to save her poor messed-up ass, even as messed up as he is. It was an awful film.

A lot of people find over-the-top sex scenes like the one in Monster's Ball degrading, not just me. It was totally gratuitous and sad.

And no, I don't like seeing other actresses degrade themselves in this way, either, no matter their color.

And yes, she was conservative, until "Monster's" and that other thing where she got her tits out with Travolta. I had respected her for that. She had a career and a following, and she didn't need to do it. I liked her in X-Men...

[kwassa]

291. Kathy Bates got naked in "About Schmidt" with Jack Nicholson

in the hot tub scene. Jack was a little freaked.

[tjdee]

269. Like Julianne Moore, Diane Lane, and Jennifer Connelly?

Jennifer Connelly's character in "Requiem For a Dream", who ends up at a sex party, is what prompted Ron Howard to hire her for "A Beautiful Mind".

Julianne's first Oscar nom was when she played a porn star in "Boogie Nights". She has also done a scene with no pants on, in a film. And she wasn't even having sex.

Diane Lane's Oscar nom was for Unfaithful, where she is an adultering fool.

Demi Moore is the QUEEN of taking her clothes off, so I suppose you have no respect for her either. Susan Sarandon...I could go on down the line with actresses getting naked repeatedly.

[UdoKier]

274. I haven't seen "Requiem"

I loved Julianne Moore in "Boogie Nights", and I don't remember her scenes being terribly explicit or degrading - but it was a film about porn, so it would have made sense. The sex scene in "Monster's" was totally gratuitous, contrived, and cheap. "Unfaithful" was supposed to be a cheeseball soft-porn movie, so I didn't see it, and it was not as acclaimed as "Monster's Ball".

Not a fan of Demi Moore, and as for Sarandon, the nude scenes she has done were done in an erotic, beautiful way, so it was okay with me.

[ultraist]

280. Oh, please...

The sex scenes in Monsters's ball were no more "cheap and contrived" than any other of those you mentioned. The reason they show less skin with Sarandon is because she does not have the HOT and beautiful bod that Halle does.

Didn't Julianne Moore also play a drug addict slut in some movie?

WHAT movie doesn't show the woman getting rescued by the man?

Name ONE movie where the woman plays a liberated, independent woman with NO sex scenes and no skin.

[UdoKier]

283. Well, I'll agree that Halle has a nice body.

I would have liked to see it glorified rather than defiled. I never said I have a problem with sex scenes or skin. I just don't like it when they are made in an ugly, un-erotic way, and/or when they are completely contrived, cynical gimmick to get buzz for the film rather than actually being important to the story.

"Erin Brockovich" showed a sexy woman, and a little skin, but she was also empowered and had some dignity.

And... in her prime, Sarandon was every bit as hot as Halle Berry, if not more so. Check out "the Hunger" sometime...

[kwassa]

290. I think you missed the point of "Monster's Ball"

The sex scenes were not gratuitous, and not particularly meant to be erotic, but were pivotal to the story. Halle's character was in deep pain through losing her ex-husband, her son, and her job, and needed desperately to connect with someone, anyone, in this case Billy Bob. Halle was completely alone and abandoned in the world, and was using sex as a basic way to connect with him in order to stifle her pain. The sex scene were neither contrived or cheap, but an expression of her desperation.

Most of the objections I've seen to "Monster's Ball" are from people that want sex to be represented as a tasteful, high-toned, and artistic, not recognizing that in real life sex can also be stupid, or violent, or escapist, or many other things. In "Monster's Ball" we have a relationship between two people brought together by major catastrophes in their lives. They each have their entire world shattered, which breaks apart the traditional barriers between blacks and white in their community. Halle's character was at the end of her psychic rope when she proposed sex to Billy Bob, and it made sense, though perhaps not the healthiest response to her situation. It the end, it turned out to be a good thing for them both.

[MISSDem]

243. We still live in a paternalistic, racist society

and there is no denying it. For actresses or for average folk, it still applies.

[Karenina]

258. And there is no escape.

it's EVERYWHERE! Worldwide... :cry: :SIGH: :cry:

[ultraist]

268. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

When people who claim to be liberal "blue staters" yet make comments so deeply entrenched in racism and refuse to see beyond their own bias, we know we are in deep shit.

[Solly Mack]

276. from the cradle to the grave

:(

[AirAmFan]

284. Remember the platinum-blonde wig she wore for her 'X-Men'

movies? Whose idea do you think that was? Do you think it was Halle Berry's idea?

Do you think she felt humiliated about having to wear a blonde wig to have a role in a big-money-making mainstream Hollywood film?

[DougieZero]

295. um...

There you go again... The comic book character she was playing is "Storm"... She was black in the comic and she didn't have "blonde hair"... it's bright white, like she was shocked with lighting... she is a super-mutant... get it?

[AirAmFan]

297. You haven't answered my questions. Producers choose what scripts

they decide to greenlight, and who gets to read for what roles.

My main question was, "Do you think Halle Berry felt humiliated about having to wear a blonde wig in order to have a role in a big-money-making mainstream Hollywood film"?

You haven't answered my question to you in post #293 either. Do you think it was historic when Halle Berry became the first African-American woman to win the Oscar for Best Actress in a Leading Role?

[newportdadde]

317. What are you talking about?

Storm's hair is WHITE not blonde it is part of the comic books character and has been for a long long time. Why would she feel humiliated? I wonder if the other actors felt humiliated that poor Patrick Stewart forced to sit in a wheel chair even though he can walk in RL. Come on get real.

[superconnected]

288. I'm with Halle on this one

I expect her to get black listed for speaking up.

I'm glad she has spoken up though.

[Tomee450]

301. I've

been thinking the same thing. She will more than likely be black listed.

[Ron Green]

289. Halle Berry is BLACK? Who knew?

[Karenina]

312. What are you trying to communicate?

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[Ron Green]

313. I'm trying to communicate that, in today's pop-culture mileu,

somebody like Halle Berry who is stunningly beautiful (and very lilght-skinned) and a competent actress is not really "black" at all, but simply a mega-star. If it were Alfre Woodard saying these things, it would ring more true, because Woodard is clearly a black woman and a brilliant working actress. Berry is a star: in the Hollywood world of pop culture, this fact goes beyond race.

[Karenina]

314. I get where you're coming from

Thanks for your response.

What I've gleaned in my half-century plus on this planet is that NOTHING trumps race. Not talent, not money, not intellect, not altruism, spirituality, charisma... NOTHING.

I can find only ONE EXAMPLE on the planet of someone who$e money has trumped his race and that would be the right "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon.

[Tomee450]

321. Exactly!!!

[Tomee450]

322. I think you

have a deep misunderstanding of racial attitudes in this country. It doesn't matter if one is light skinned and beautiful, he will still experience discrimination. I know blacks who are very light skinned and they have suffered job and housing discrimination. One friend who looks almost white finally quit her job. Meetings were scheduled for which she was given the wrong date or on dates she was absent. Pages missing from manuals. She would attend meeting in which she was the only black present and found herself always sitting alone. Continuously passed over for promotions. It got to be too much so she quit. In this country if you look black or even if you look white but are known to have black blood, you suffer the same abuse as other blacks.

[Karenina]

345. Dare we delve

into the women "assumed" to be white by suitors and later BUSTED for their darker relatives? I THOUGHT YOU WERE WHITE! YOU DECEIVED ME!!!
Forget that we understood each other, that we formed a bond as humans...
YOU'RE A FUCKING NIGGER!!!

[Tomee450]

371. I've heard of that happening.

How hurtful. I've heard of very fair skinned blacks who went north to get jobs they couldn't get in the south. They were always fearful that someone from their hometown would come to the city and they would be exposed.

[truebrit71]

336. I'm sorry, what is this young, black multi-millionaire complaining about?

Hey gorgeous, go count your money and keep on smiling, okay?

:eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

342. I hope that was said in jest....

otherwise :wtf:

[DougieZero]

353. RACIST!

...just kidding. I think Halle Berry is over-hyping the situation... She really is an A-list star that probably gets dozens of scripts a day, each comes with a multi-million dollar paycheck.

I'm sorry she hasn't won an award since 2001, but Catwomen and Gothika isn't going to do it.

Can everyone chill out in this thread? Like stated before... I'm self aware racism is alive and well, but this might be the girl who cried wolf.

[Karenina]

354. Your position seems to be

SHE has no right to express herself because she has attained some measure of success in a white male dominated business. SHE should sit down and shut up. Do I understand you correctly?

[amazona]

341. I don't blame her for being frustrated

I don't see many roles out there for strong black women, especially older black women. About the only "defense" to be made of Hollywood is that ALL older women, of any race, pretty much have to develop their own properties if they want to keep getting major roles. At 38 in a land of Hillary Duffs she is starting to hit the wall.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[theboss]

358. The issue I have with this is WHO is saying it

The issue she is addressing is very real. There is no doubt about it. And if a dozen other talented black actresses (Angela Bassett, Nia Long, Regina King, Gabrielle Union, etc), I would completely agree with them.

But Halle Berry has spent a dozen years getting very rich by playing stupid roles in bad movies. And off the set, she is known as a self-serving nutjob.

What this article screams to me is, "Don't blame me for making Catwoman and Gothika!!! And it's not my fault I almost personally killed "X-Men" with that frog line!"

[Karenina]

363. I've confronted that issue of

"WHO is saying it" so many times I :puke: upon reading the casuistry in your post. "Black folks" who have "made it" have NO RIGHT to point out inequities in the system as "religious" doctrine (MW 1st definition interpretation. AAF, bist Du immer noch hier? ;-) :hi:)

We REFUSE TO HEAR THAT from YOU!!! Shit, how many times have I been subjected to that? :puke: :puke: :puke:

"We don't need no nigger bitches telling US anything!"

Ya know, I got POUNDED into the ground for coming up with too many correct calculations in H.S. Trig. Dropped Math. Tip of the iceberg.

[theboss]

369. You completely missed my point

I think Halle Berry has achieved more than she should as a pretty mediocre actress. She's an A-List star with millions in the bank and an Oscar. And she's not that good. She's also a pretty lousy person from what I've heard.

There are a dozen other black actresses who certainly have been shafted. If this was coming from them, I would applaud it.

But to me it's like Sharon Stone talking about no longer getting good roles. She shouldn't have gotten that many good roles in the first place.

[AirAmFan]

370. This is CLASSIC "liberal" Catch-22 thinking on race

The "liberal do-nothing / no problem" approach to institutionalized racism says, "It's OK to discriminate against African-Americans who've 'made it'. We're saving our "tolerance" for the downtrodden who really NEED it."

But if the first and only African American woman to win the Best Actress-Leading role Oscar STILL only gets to read for stereotypical and degrading roles in big-money studio pictures, what incentive do less successful actors of color have to keep trying?

Chances are, Halle Berry's standard of living would fall pretty far if she didn't keep on putting on that platinum blonde wig for "X-Men" sequels. What message does that send to exciting young ingenues such as Joy Bryant (of 'Antwone Fisher' fame)?

[theboss]

375. Why is everone missing my point: I do not like Halle Berry!!!

I think she is gorgeous, but I don't care for her.

She is probably speaking the truth; I still don't like her.

[HEyHEY]

361. For all those years we looked like clowns, the joke is over

smell the smoke from all around.

Burn Hollywood Burn

[Javaman]

364. Halle, one word, Catwoman. Have a hit and they will be at your door.

[Karenina]

365. Dorothy Dandridge

wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for you, eh?

[Javaman]

372. Obviously you have never worked in hollywood, I have...

They don't care, they just want box office numbers

[AirAmFan]

374. See post #306 above, at URL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3030967&mesg_id=3041550&page=

[Karenina]

377. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Obviously, you have NOT read this thread, nor checked out post #306.
:crazy: Aaron, where are you when we need you? ;-) And WHERE is that Bill Duke???

[fishwax]

380. Halle Berry is the ONLY actor who ever made bad movies

It's not like Emma Thompson followed her academy award with a movie in which Arnold Schwarzeneger carried a child to term in his manly womb. (Junior)

It's not like Holly Hunter followed her oscar with a movie which featured a man having sex with an open wound. (Crash)

And the men as well ... I'm sure if Dustin Hoffman had followed his Rain Man Oscar with a stinker like, say Dick Tracy it would have totally ruined his career. And it's a good thing that Anthony Hopkins didn't take that roll in the Mick Jagger vehicle Freejack after winning for Silence of the Lambs, or he would have faded into an obviously deserved obscurity.

Anyway ... Halle made a couple of bad films, and we can all be certain that she had dozens more intriguing roles to choose from (since, after all, there has always been such a wealth of interesting roles for African American actresses in Hollywood).

Nope, couldn't have been racism. Had to have been Catwoman :eyes:

Okay, enough sarcasm. It just boggles my mind that the simple and fairly obvious statement that there is racism in Hollywood is met with such disdain and disbelief.

[Karenina]

381. Not just disdain and disbelief...

PILED ON, gratuitous attacks to discredit that uppity high-yellow girl who dared to utter her perception of the system!!! :shrug:

[fishwax]

383. You're absolutely right, it's been much uglier

Disdain and disbelief isn't even close. (Didn't mean to understate the issue ;)

It sure is discouraging to see so much of that attitude here. I've been away for most of the afternoon and so just finished skimming this thread for a recap. Props to you (and others) for fighting the good fight throughout the thread.

[Karenina]

384. On a positive note...

This is the FIRST l-o-n-g thread on the topic that has not degenerated into a complete flame war and been locked!!! GOOOOO DU!!!
Maybe we're making some progress! :silly: