1st Amendment goes TOO FAR? What's wrong with these kids???

[CatWoman]

Frightening

There have been people commenting recently about the latest generation's increasing comfort with authoritarianism. I don't know if that trend is true, but these poll results should scare us all:


Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."

The students are even more restrictive in their views than their elders, the study says.

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.


http://atrios.blogspot.com

link to actual article: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/

[Thtwudbeme]

1. The future of this country is looking pretty damned

scary right now.

That article scared the hell out me; I do not know what is wrong with these kids.

I wish I had something uplifting to write.

[tom_paine]

15. The future of the country IS damned

Damned to repeat the same mistakes of the past that lead to Ceaser, Hitler, Marcos, and the rest.

We are damned, pure and simple.

And as always, the anti-Christian followers of Der Fuhrer Bush will be leading the way and dragged the rest of us with them.

Just like last time.

I know what is wrong with these kids. They are the children of their parents, who don't desrve the frredom that the people who defeated Hitler handed down to them.

They have come full circle and they and their kids are the poeple who let Hitler get into power.

Full circle.

[Hissyspit]

43. This Discussion Is Also In Latest Breaking News Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1199266&mesg_id=1199266

[lonestarnot]

121. Apples don't fall far from the tree.

;( Remember little Nazi children?

[regnaD kciN]

116. By that standard, so is (was) the past...

...because there was a similar poll taken among students in the early fifties, right in the midst of McCarthy's "Red Scare," that showed virtually the same results.

And, within a decade, many of those who were calling for restrictions on freedom of expression were beatniks, civil-rights activists, or members of the Free Speech Movement.

Go figure...

[manly]

127. restrictions on freedom of speech

Unless I misunderstand you, you seem to be saying that beatniks, civil rights activists and members of the Free Speech Movement were calling for (in favor of) restrictions on freedom of expression. If this is what you're saying, you're seriously mistaken. It never happened.

[silverpatronus]

133. i believe the poster meant...

that they BECAME beatniks etc. a decade after they'd advocated restrictions on freedom. in other words, they grew up and changed their minds.

[manly]

144. possible meaning

H.L.Mencken had a form letter which he sent to every reader who wrote to him, regardless of subject.
"Dear Sir or Madam,
You may be right."
Peace.

[Xavi]

146. You know

My high school didn't have a newspaper until this guy started one. We had a staff of nine, worked late putting it together, and the students really seemed to like what we had to say. I think that the problem is that they're kids and they don't like when people say things that clash with what they believe in.

[ComerPerro]

2. You know the most disturbing and puzzling aspect of this

Conservatives consistantly believe that free speech should be restricted, that some things should just not be allowed to be expressed, and that it is wrong to express dissenting viewpoints during this time of "war".

But, at the same time, they embrace people like the Swiftboat Liars and Ann Coulter, who hide behind "free speech" to spread viscious lies.

Apparently, if you say that Bush misled the nation into the war in Iraq, you are going beyond the bounds of free speech. But if you call an ex-President a rapist, you are a patriot and have a bestseller.

[realisticphish]

3. that is fucking terrifying

:scared: and they're only a few years younger than me


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[BOSSHOG]

4. Youth is wasted on the Young

These little fascist bastards have yet to have their first amendment rights restricted. Their caterwauling is directed only against people who don't agree with their programmers. Irony and cannibalism will put an extremely large dent in the conservative "movement" in this country and I believe it will occur very soon. And please, praytell, would someone explain to this veteran what an "unpopular view" is?

[tom_paine]

17. "Unpopular views" is Totalitarian Code for opposing Der Fuhrer and Party

You know, THE PARTY: Is our Bolshevik or Bushevik, who can tell the difference between them except for a small bit of economic philosophy?

[Pedro Picasso]

97. Experience is wasted on people who forget.

Maybe I'm a bit closer to high school age than a lot of posters. I recall it being a locked down cattle-herding kind of place, where touching the classroom flag could get you a stern warning, and expressing an opinion other than that of the teachers or administration would get you in serious trouble.

I am not surprised that children currently in the rights-free environment of public schools aren't aware of the rights that adults have in our society. It's hard to even care what rights teachers tell you that you have when it's obvious that you can't exercise them.

I don't think this is a problem with Commie Liberal or a Fascist Right-Wing kids. It's a problem with the fact that American schools are something between a daycare and a prison that's -- oh by the way -- also trying to teach students to recite the names of presidents. I would recommend a civics class very different from the one taught as Economic, Legal, and Political Systems in my state. I would recommend one that teaches you how to function as a citizen. How to maintain personal finances, detect when advertising or media are lying to you. How to exercise your rights when dealing with police officers and security guards. How peaceful protest and letters to congressmen can be effective and how they can be ignored. I think we need a little citizenship guide that says more than how many stars and how many stripes are on our flag.

[stlsaxman]

103. What a great first post! Welcome to D.U. Pedro!

Your post is fuckin' spot on! Looking forward to seeing you around more.

[Pedro Picasso]

148. Thank you.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the welcome. I hope to stick around a while.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

5. They'll change their tune if they ever lose that right n/t

[tom_paine]

20. No they won't. They'll sit back and take it

Like their parents, lazing their way through TV-befuddled days.

By the time these fools feel the consequences of their actions, and those of their Fuhrer-worshipping parents, it will be far too late.

Even in a country full of Free People like Ukrainians, let alone a weak and slavish people like the Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

[KnowerOfLogic]

62. 'Fraid you're right. nt

[Mizmoon]

6. My teen would say something like this

Why? Cause teenagers don't know shit about shit.

I wouldn't get too worked up over this one ...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. When I was a teen, I never believed the government...

should censor the news. These young ding dongs may be the new "Hitler Youth".

[Mizmoon]

13. I bet if you could have a transcript

of stuff you said when you were a teen, you would be horrified at the things you claimed to believe in.

[KnowerOfLogic]

63. I seem to recall that "never trust anybody over 30" was still a common

belief when i was a teenager (late 70s, early 80s); there was a lot more skepticism of authority and a belief that free expression should be the rule, not the exception.

[Anakin Skywalker]

138. Maybe they can volunteer to fight

for Der Vaterland over in iraq. :)

[BOSSHOG]

14. However, the programming does not end with the teen years

If the fascists have a 50% success rate with 15 year olds today in a free country what does that bode for our country when those 15 year olds are 45 and doing the programming themselves? I think it cause to get a little worked up over.

[Mizmoon]

16. all right, whatever

fear my teenager, if you think you must.

[Cats Against Frist]

27. I agree with you that teenagers are clueless

but many of the people who think the first amendment is too broad, will grow up to be adults that think the first amendment is too broad:

http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=2621

This is a link to a poll -- toward the bottom, there are some disturbing numbers about the press, and government and flag buring.

I would say that between the delusionals, the cultural supremacists, the empire builders and the corpo-fascists, this country is the Third Reich waiting to happen.

[hobbit709]

34. Back in the '70s

Some people modernized the wording of the preamble to the Constitution and parts of the Declaration of Independence and went around to several malls asking people to read it and if they agreed with the principles stated to sign it. 40% refused, calling it communist propaganda. The percentage of idiots seems to be a constant, sometimes they more vocal about it.

[IceOwl]

50. Who doesn't know what?

And whose fault is that? Parents leave far too much up to public schools and daycare these day.

[DebJ]

117. darn smart teenager there!

[dandrhesse]

7. I don't know any young people who feel this way.

My daughter is a sophmore in high school and she and her friends do not feel this way at all. In fact they are appalled by the abuse of rights taking place and feel that the country is in real trouble.

[Stand and Fight]

115. You answered your own semi-question...

Your daughter and her friends do not feel this way at all -- I bet you talk to your daughter about everything going on, and chances are that she hangs out with like-minded friends who's parents are -- in turn -- not very dissimilar from you. I know plenty of young people who are woefully uninformed and cannot tell you commonly known facts -- such as who the first lady is, what the Patriot does, who the supposed lead hijacker was on 9/11, who is known as the Father of the Constitution, that the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are separate documents, that James Madison ought VERY hard for a Bill of Rights... It is a sad state of affairs, but your daughter and her friends are very likely in the minority. Without knowing where you live I make those assumptions, but I've lived in lots of places the last ten years and this article is dead-on.

[dandrhesse]

120. I understand, but what I am trying to say is that there is hope and

people like my daughter and her friends speak out in class and challenge their positions, causing them to defend themselves for the first time. We need to be fostering these kids, they are the FUTURE of our country.

Just like us, there are lots of them out there but the MSM covers more of the other side. Nothing is bringing these issues to the fore like the possibility of the draft.

Two years ago in middle school may daughter told me about kids reading "Bushisms" between classes and the whole hallway would erupting in laughter and kids saying, how could someone so stupid be elected president? There are a lot of kids that don't trust our generation because they feel we have been duped we put faith in a system that supports this charade.


There is hope even for the kids who don't know which end is up. I was not "politically" active or necessarily "aware" in high school so that doesn't mean that kids who don't know their head from a hole in the ground now will be like that always.

[Karenina]

8. Electronic gadgets.

[K-W]

9. Authoritarian parenting comes home to roost

If you raise your kids to uncritically obey authority, that is just what they will learn to do.

[Old and In the Way]

18. I think you're correct.

Our kids have reasonably progressive viewpoints....because that's what they hear from Mom and Dad. If the parents are rgressive, good chance that kids will reflect that in their thinking. Until they rebel.

[K-W]

22. What scares me

is that with education failing, and more people working more and more hours to get by, that effective parenting is just going to fall completely by the wayside. When parents parent on instinct they tend to fall into an authoritarian relationship that doesnt behoove the parent, child, or society.

[Branjor]

44. Also....

schools must no longer be teaching the meaning of democracy. Maybe they only have Bush-approved curricula these days.

[IceOwl]

51. Democracy

If they're teaching the meaning and value of democracy, it's democracy as defined by Republicans and other gangster cronies.

[K-W]

54. Exactly, generalized and superficial and tied to nationalism.

A perfect setup for tyranny.

And of course nobody dare teach that our government is based on the premise that the natural rights and will of the people trump government, even ours.

[MountainLaurel]

46. A function of religion as well

In church, they're taught that to question the bible or what the pastor tells them is a sin. If you're raised on stories of the horrors of hellfire, of course you're not going to risk your salvation by questioning anything.

[RaleighNCDUer]

69. Many years ago, after years of agnosticism, I gave church

another try. It was right across the street, it was my father's faith, I loved the music, and there was this real cute girl in the choir. I wound up taking the adult confirmation classes, stayed there for a couple years.

Then the pastor went on a rant, one day, about how the 'Question Authority' bumper sticker was downright evil, advocating sin.

I haven't been a christian since.

[WoodrowFan]

73. I haven't been a christian since.

neither has that pastor. Like the bumper sticker says, "he died to take away your sins, not your mind."

[merbex]

65. I was going to post that this is the result of strict father vs

nurturing parent as Lakoff writes.

In Strict Father mode the child NEVER questions;obedience is all

Free speech is too scary to these people.

[Reverend_Smitty]

11. Those kids certainly didn't go to my high school

We had a Green club and a philosophy club...both of which I was a founding member. I can't imagine much has changed in the 3 years that I have been out of HS.

What is really strange is the principals and teachers seem to wholeheartedly believe in free speech, so where are the kids getting fed the Kool-aid?

[K-W]

19. Education is massively regional, it all depends on your town.

I come from a liberal middle class town in New England, and yah, our teachers were all great and I know the constitution like the back of my hand thanks to them.

But there are some places where everyone, the schoolboard, the teachers, the principal, all of them have massive misunderstandings of these things because of the politics of thier regions.

[klyon]

12. This frightening, our schools are failing us

We are not teaching our kids how to think only to follow authoritarian commands, IE. the military. I have heard people (not children) say they would give up freedoms to be protected from terrorism, such as the right to not have their house searche

I am very worried about our democracy.

KL

[MadHound]

21. While this is truly frightening, it isn't all that suprising

You have a generation of kids growing up who were born during the Reagan/Bush administration, when our latest fascination with jingoistic nationalism became fashionable. They came of age and political awareness during the Clinton years, when anything left was demonized, ridiculed and shouted down. And now they are entering adulthood during the most authoritarian era that we've seen since McCarthy or Hitler.

The messages they received were distinctly right wing, not just from the MSM, but also right wing hate radio and their own peers. It just goes to show that the propaganda being spewed out over the past twenty years is effective, in that we wind up with most of a generation brainwashed into believing that freedom and civil rights should be measured out as our "leaders" see fit, not that they are rights that transcend politics.

It also is indicative that our youth still have the need to rebel against their parents and their partents' generation. Those of us growing up with Baby Boom generation had authoritarian, RW parents, thus our rebellion tended to slant to the left. This generations' parents are from the left leaning Baby Boom, so thus their rebellion tends to slant to the right.

[n2dfun]

25. How many teenagers . . .

do you know who listen to RW radio talk shows? Come on . . .
that's not it! It's also not the parents or anything to do with their relationship with their parents. I think it's the education system in combination with the high-tech world we live in. These kids spend their days watching MTV, reality shows, chatting online, etc. . .

All they need is ONE good teacher to light a fire under them with regards to learning the basics about the First Amendment.

That's my opinion.

[MadHound]

29. Actually I've known quite a few, in high school and college

Who listen to Rush and his ilk. To them it is "entertainment", yet the message gets through anyway. And please don't try to lay this solely at the feet of the education system. Most educators I know are pretty left leaning, and while fighting through the mandates of NCLB, mandatory testing, short pay, long hours, constant criticism from all sides, they still manage to do a pretty decent job of educating our youth.

We are beset with brainwashing and propaganda friend. In a study conducted around ten years ago, it was found that TV depresses the Alpha and Beta waves of the brain, thus in essence putting the person into a light hypnotic trance. Now not all people are vunerable to hypnosis, but the majority are, and thus are taking in every utterance of Faux and others as gospel. Then there is the simple tried and true tactic of the Big Lie, along with other well tested propaganda tactics. They are effective, to see how effective one needs to look no further than the successe of Madison Av. in foisting crap off on the American publilc.

Education is teaching only our children 6-7 hours a day, but propaganda goes on 24/7. Now tell me how does one combat that onslaught?

[NewJeffCT]

49. The problem is...

The problem is that Rush and his ilk have spawned CNN & Fox News and all the RW talking points have sunk into the mainstream.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. There are plenty of good teachers out there --

most in the public schools fit in that catagory.

But there are parents and politicians and preachers telling the kids that their teachers are incompetent, left-wingers whose only loyalty is to their teacher's union.

What do you do?

[liberal N proud]

23. Not only are they passing out cool-aid at Church but the schools

also are filling our children with this crap.
The educators are not doing their job, Freedom of Speech should be taught in Social Studies classes in ever school in this country.

[texas_teacher]

26. Survey

I'd be more interested to see how this survey was presented to the students and what the test looked like. We (6-12 teachers) were having a meeting this morning and had just this discussion. Our students know the Bill of Rights and none of us could remember having a student advocate for less freedom of anything.

Before everyone starts blaming teachers and schools, maybe we should look at the study and take into account that perhaps the data is not as indicitive of anything more than poor reading skills.

Find 100 teens and ask them if their right to speech isn't important. We teach the Bill of Rights and the importance of freedome constantly...let's not blame the teachers.

[Reverend_Smitty]

30. When I was a senior in High School...

I took an honors government class. We devoted an entire marking period to studying the constitution. We had to enter a statewide constitution debate contest, and because we wanted to do well, our class knew that document like the back of our hand. That was such a great class because it exposed us to a hands on approach to government, I don't ever remember the teacher saying anything partisan even once...he allowed for both Republican and Democrat speakers to come in and we made up our own minds. Every high school should have a class like this

[Heddi]

37. Hey Rev! I had a class like that too. My class went on to DC to represent

our state in a Constitutional Debate team. We didn't win, but we did pretty well.

The entire class was devoted to learning the constitution and the bill of rights. Our classmates would have to sit on a panel and answer questions posed by constitutional lawyers and such. They were pretty tough on us kids, and for being 12th graders, I think we held our own pretty well.

I agree...EVERY high schooler should have to learn the Constitution & BOR in that way. It really gives you a great appreciation of the documents and what they do (and don't) stand for.

[Reverend_Smitty]

83. You were probably in the same contest that we were in...

except our class didn't win the state competition. We all learned a lot and had fun doing it. My area of expertise was the philosophy behind the constitution, John Locke, social contract, that sort of thing

[Petrushka]

70. B-b-but! Would that be the [uh] "politically correct" thing to do? n/t

[Acryliccalico]

24. My children and

my grandchildren do not feel or think this way. If you know the truth and show them the truth, no school or government can delude them into believing a lie. :kick:

[Liberal Classic]

28. Too much MTV

When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly. There's a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it.

- Bill Clinton MTV's "Enough is Enough" program

[Dark]

31. I kind of agree with the stories one.

At least, concerning military stories. If there is a chance revealing a story (like Rivera did) could undermine our troops' safety, then I would say that they do have to get gov't approval. So some kids may have thought the same thing.

And some are just fascist fundie fuckers.

[murray hill farm]

36. it also depends on how the questions were worded!

I can see teen agers saying that there should be times when there should be limitations...especially if the only available answers were yes or no...any of us might do the same!

[progressivebydesign]

32. I'm in the 'teenagers don't know jack' category..

.. Unless the child is truly progressive, from a progressive household, they often buy into the black and white way of seeing things. Good vs. evil, etc. It's a function of immaturity, and not knowing the nuances of life yet. The progressive kids are often more educated or in tune with reality... 9 times out of 10, a kid merely spouts whatever is believed at home (or sadly for a teen girl, whatever her boyfriend thinks, usually). If the majority of 21 year olds felt this way, then I'd worry more. There are even jr. high kids that know the dangers of that type of thinking, and we ALL have stories about our own teens, etc... but until you're out in the world, you're just parroting your parents or what you see on tv. I'm not worried..

[Kali]

68. There are diffent personalities for sure

Pretty much progressive house here, especially with political thought/discussions - three kids, one is pretty much oblivious, one is a questioner, reader - seems to have similar thinking to myself - able to see grey. Second son has a lot of trouble - wants the world to be black and white - would make a great freep with the right upbringing! He struggles - has a kind heart but I know he wishes the world were more simple.

[Democrat Dragon]

95. Although I like Fantasy stories

I think many Fantasy stores, which are now popular amongst teen as well as the online game Neopets preach a black and white view of the world. Unlike Japanese Anime and Manga which is usually more complicated.

[canberra]

114. I'm not worried either

High schools kids spend all day in an environment where there are limits to what they can and cannot say, what they can wear etc

It's no surprise being in a controlling environment that they accept this sort of thing.

I remember seeing a similar survey (I would search for a link if I could remember more about it) where a majority of high school kids believe the Government should set prices for bread, milk, etc.

Kids think the government should have a very controlling influence because that's what their teachers/principals/parents have. If they still hold those sorts of views when they are 22-23 then we have problems.

[LiberalVoice]

126. Good post...

I agree completely.

[Javaman]

33. repuke robot children, aka hilter youth.

[SammyBlue]

35. Considering that my mother and I teach

this is not surprising. These kids are being brainwashed by their parents into touting the neo-conservative line.

You should see some of the answers on tests and papers these kids turn in.

FYI, did you know the Napoleon was the General who stomped the Bonus Army and the 1930s bank robber that left money for farmers was named "Pinky the Bandit?"

Also, the President elected 4 times was George Foreman, the author of the "Grapes of Wrath" was Andrew Mellon and the Bonus Army was known as the "Old Fart's March?"

Yes, welcome to the future. Be prepared to weep.

[zbdent]

38. Just wait until one of them tries to write something in the "school

newspaper" - then they'll find out how far the 1st amendment goes to apply to them . . .

[struggle4progress]

39. When Graham High School Editor Heads Off Campus For First Amendment Rights

When Graham Cornwell was elected incoming editor of McMinnville High School's award-winning school paper, The Bruin, last spring he didn't know he soon would become editor of a different paper, or that he would wind up months later researching First Amendment case law. <snip>

"I produced one issue , but had many arguments with the advisor about stories that were censored or entirely cut," Cornwell said. <snip>

"At the end of the year I left the school paper and decided to start an independent paper. I got some friends together (all from the school newspaper) who were interested in having an alternative voice at Mac High and at the beginning of the school year we founded The Veritas," he said.

The Veritas is an alternative voice -- a paper for the Oregon high school that isn't actually produced there and doesn't use school funding. Cornwell got permission from the editor of Linfield College's newspaper to use its computer labs to produce the paper. <snip>

http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=77687


Banned! Williamstown teen becomes a First Amendment poster boy

By Shay Totten | Vermont Guardian

At 14, Zachary Guiles is a focused and thoughtful citizen. He plays first trombone in the Vermont Youth Symphony Orchestra, likes to ride his dirt bike and to read — especially Michael Moore’s books. And he has a good relationship with both of his parents.

He’s not the kind of kid you’d expect to hear of getting banned from school and winding up in court. But last year, that’s what happened — all because of a T-shirt Zach wore to school — a shirt he had worn numerous times without raising an eyebrow.

The message on the shirt calls Pres. George W. Bush “Chicken-Hawk-In-Chief,” referring to the gaps in Bush’s military career as a reservist. It appears that school officials didn’t object to the political message. Rather, they took issue with the caricature of the image of the president drinking and snorting cocaine. <snip>

http://www.vermontguardian.com/local/0105/Banned!.shtml


Principal will stand trial in federal lawsuit
27 Jan 2005
By Ed Scott News-Gazette Staff Writer

A panel of three judges has affirmed a lower court’s ruling that Celebration High School Principal Dan White must be included as a defendant in a First Amendment lawsuit filed against him and the Collier County School Board. <snip>

White, a former Collier County school superintendent, had claimed immunity in the civil suit brought by Lely High School history teacher Tom Briscoe.

White argued that the board’s ability to run the district smoothly outweighed Briscoe’s free-speech rights. Briscoe successfully countered that White had not shown how his criticism had hindered the district.

Briscoe, who is seeking $1 million in damages from the district and White, claims he was disciplined by White and the board for exercising his First Amendment rights by speaking out on issues of “public concern,” regarding education in Collier County. <snip>

http://www.oscnewsgazette.com/index.php?option=news&task=viewarticle&sid=10003


The Berkmar controversy
Student editorials present two sides of the issue of a school club for gay students
Published on: 01/25/05

Today's Gwinnett Opinions page features a pair of editorials written by Berkmar High School students for the December issue of the school's newspaper, The Liberty, but removed from the publication.

Pictures of the writers and empty gray boxes appeared where the opinion pieces — about a new club for heterosexual and homosexual teens called the Gay Lesbian and Straight Society — were to have been published.

Berkmar Principal Kendall Johnson ordered removal of the editorials because of concerns about their "inflammatory nature and because it could have been disruptive to class," according to Sloan Roach, executive director of communication and media relations for Gwinnett County Public Schools.

"This particular issue of the school newspaper was published/distributed during final exams," Roach said. "There could have been a range of disruptions to the school and student body as people have very strong feelings about this issue. The principal was not going to allow there to be distractions from their focus on teaching and learning." <snip>

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/gwinnett/0105/26berkmarintro.html

[Rapcw]

93. thanks for compiling this n/t

[struggle4progress]

104. It has been many long years since I was last in the public schools ...

... but back then I considered them little indoctrination factories, designed to stifle human creativity and intelligence. Any normal person, who has ever been stuck in high school, has sympathy for its victims forever after.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. An uninformed mind is a terrible thing

Kids aren't stupid, just ignorant. This is further proof that our greatest hurdle is getting people informed on the issues.

[eagler]

41. When all these kids hear are messages from right wing media

day in and day out , year after year then this is what they're going to think. We need to bring back a new revised fairness doctrine in order for all to be exposed to different sides of important political issues. Otherwise a free America truly is dead.

[sasquatch]

42. This is a byproduct of Christian fundamentalism

As the number of these freaks rises a large part of these new members are mostly Junior High and High School kids that are brainwashed into joining because they're are easier to recruit. The reason these kids are easier to recruit is because these kids are uncomfortable with themselves and that makes them vulnrable for recruiting. When the kids are introduced to a group of they're peers that are willing to accept them they by into the system completly.

[Colorado Blue]

47. Agreed! But I think there's more: endless TV, video games

and a general disconnect from LIFE - physical, truly spiritual life. We're awash in STUFF and advertising messages and electronic "reality" - people are drugged and asleep. And because we're reasonably comfortable (so far) people are lulled, especially kids who really don't know any different.

I can't help but compare this generation of young people with the Vietnam era students and youth. We were ON FIRE.

In 2004 I had real trouble wiring up my 19 year old niece to VOTE. And her hypoxtian boyfriend voted for BUSH.

Having said that - what happened to the Baby Boomers???? After all we Boomers are these mush-brains' aunts, uncles, parents, cousins! Biggest sell-out in the history of humanity? Or just beaten down by life? That would be many Democrats I guess; the Republican baby boomers are doing JUST FINE in their gated communities.

And I guess if you have a Lexus SUV you don't need the First Amendment.

[phusion]

45. I have more bad news for you...

We had a similar questionarre in an upper-level journalism class (ethics) I'm taking at my university.

Here are some of the results from this semester:

Newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of a story.
Strongly agree 31.9%
mildly agree 34.1%
mildly disagree 23.4%
strongly disagree 8.5%

Newspapers should be allowed to freely criticize the US military about its strategy and performance
mildly disagree 13%
strongly disagree 19.6%

How would you rate the job the news media did in covering the 2003 war in Iraq?
excellent 6.4%
good 12.8%
fair 34%
poor 44% (promising)

As part of the war on terrorism, law enforcement agencies should be allowed to monitor what books or other materials patrons check out of public libraries:
strongly agree 4.3%
mildly agree 14.9%


These are future journalists!!

[delhurgo]

48. And how many people on this site are for laws regarding 'hate speech',

'sexual harassment', and political correctness in general. You may assume that these students are developing a more conservative view of the First Amendment, but censors are not necessarily 'right-wing' anymore - today the left is for censorship too. You can add media violence and even porn to that long list of leftist/feminist/democrat targets too.

[IceOwl]

59. Really?

Consider the context and reasons why people might want those things left out of the media. I don't think anybody on the "left" is asking for these things to be censored, so much as considered as to what context violent images in the media are being used and what message is being sent with those images.

CNN and FOX show regular, every day coverage of war, with the least amount of objectivity one can get away with. They'll show the bombed out cars and houses of Iraqis, while never showing destroyed American tanks or helicopters, or the coffins coming home. This sends two obvious messages:

1) War is like a video game, an action of no consequence, where only the "enemy" dies and is not human.

2) That brutal violence can be another form of entertainment.

As for hate speech and sexual harassment, there is nothing wrong with hate speech as long as it doesn't incite violence. Sexual harassment, on the other hand, is an abuse of freedom of speech.

Porn? Give me a break. Perhaps you could name someone on the "left" who wants to censor porn? It seems far easier to come up with examples of Republicans, such as the FCC under Michael Powell shutting down radio shows and fining TV stations for "indecent content." Try again.

[delhurgo]

67. You prove my point.

"As for hate speech and sexual harassment, there is nothing wrong with hate speech as long as it doesn't incite violence. Sexual harassment, on the other hand, is an abuse of freedom of speech."

Sounds to me like you sort of agree with the students that think the 1st amend goes too far.

The only way speech can 'incite' violence is if someone specifically asks a person or people to commit an act. 'Hate' has nothing to do with it; you don't have the right not to be offended. Hate speech doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned, at least not legally it shouldn't. That doesn't stop leftists from passing laws though, mostly in Europe and Canada for now, but probably soon here as well - speech codes already exist on campuses and in workplaces. They've just recently made blasphemy illegal again in Britain because it was 'inciting' Muslims to violence.

'Sexual Harassment' doesn't exist either, imo. You can be singled out and harassed and that should be illegal, but that sex has anything to do with it shouldn't matter. People should not be fired or sued because they did something that some prude or overly-sensitive person was offended by.

[Solon]

89. You make several logical flaws...

First off, you dismiss most sexual harassment that occurs in the workplace, IN THE WORKPLACE, where you have NO rights to free speech anyways. First Amendment only applies to governments, kid. If a co-worker grabs you on the ass or breast, then what are you to do? Just take it? What type of maschoist shit is that? Same goes for a boss trying to trade sex for promotions, shit like that. It happens all the time, I have seen it happen to female co workers, and even to a male co worker once. You have little to no logic in that argument, just sexism.

Speech inciting violence and hate speech are too different things, first off, we already have limits to free speech here. If someone during a protest said "Lets kill all the pigs!" he can be arresting for inciting violence and inciting a riot. Similar to yelling "Fire!" in a theatre, which is inciting a different type of riot all together, but with the same effect, posing an imminent danger that someone else will get hurt.

As far as you argument about Political Correctness, give me a fucking break. First off, there has NEVER been an attempt by the left only by the right, and they do have their own version of PC, believe me(Flag Burning Amendment) to restrict such speech through law. That's a bullshit argument if I ever heard one. Its made by hypersensitive racist white trash who think their freedom of speech is violated because they can't call a black man a "Nigger" to his face without getting a black eye. Boo fucking hoo! Its called politeness, plain and simple, and besides, how is that any different than knowing your manners around certain people. Not only that, but it isn't nearly as widespread as you make it out to be, and like I said before, the Right has their own version of it. Here's a test for you, go ahead and say "Bush sucks monkey balls!" at Bob Jones university, and see how far you get your ass kicked.

Your attitude disgusts me :puke:

[delhurgo]

101. Hey,

don't you dare throw up at my post! :P I like how you called me 'kid', that was cute.

I don't dismiss harassment, I dismiss lawsuits and firings based on someone being offended by something someone said that may have been politically incorrect. I didn't say anything about being grabbed or being coerced into sex, those are crimes - they're not harassment though. Thats the problem with the term 'sexual harassment', it creates confusion. Offending someone should not be a reason for legal action, thats all I'm saying.

You're point about speech inciting violence is pretty much what I said, so I think we agree. Its the idea that offensive speech or blasphemy could be considered the 'cause' of violence is what concerns me. Thats the direction they're going in Europe, and here to some extent with giving tougher sentences to 'hate crimes' (thats creating a thoughtcrime imo), and like I said the PC on campuses. The answer to offensive speech is more speech, not censorship - that's what the ACLU always says. I agree.

[DebJ]

118. Sexual harassment dosn't exist??? What do you call this:

"What the hell are YOU doing working here? Women don't belong in the truck leasing industry!" (I was the accountant.)

"Come to my hotel room and we can watch porn videos", from a Vice President in-town visiting.

[delhurgo]

124. That was rude, boorish behavior.

But something that just happened once is not harassment. It's not anything serious enough to be considered coercion either. You need alot more than just one offensive remark. Complain to the President or other high ups. If it keeps being repeated, especially after he was asked to stop - then you may have a case. Unfortunately there are jerks everywhere, but thats life.

[delhurgo]

75. "Gimme a break?"

You mean you've never heard about the feminists that want porn banned because it 'exploits women'. They are almost as rabid about it as the fundies are. You need to give ME a break.

And alot of the hysteria about 'media violence' in movies, tv, video games,... comes from the left. With the right its sex, and with the left its violence. They both are a threat to free speech.

[IceOwl]

81. Who?

You have yet to name anyone in your accusatory ramblings. You're even contradicting yourself in the same post. First you say people on the "left" want to ban porn, then you say the "right" wants to censor sex. The funny thing is, only one is undeniably true, and it's not the former.

Who was it after the Columbine massacre decrying violence in video games and TV as the reason it happened? Certainly not any "leftists."

I've already named the FCC under Michael Powell as an example of Republicans trying to prevent "indecency."

[delhurgo]

85. Here ya go:

Catherine Mackinnon and Andrea Dworkin. They're just two examples of many in the feminist movement that want to censor porn. I can't believe you don't know that though, that amazes me - they're constantly going on and on about women objectified as sex symbols, etc.... There's even feminist splinter groups that have formed to disagree with the anti-porn feminists.

Both the left and the right want to censor, its just that one concentrates more on violence and the other on sex.

You're wrong about the FCC too, sort of. Even though Powell was bad on free speech issues, he was still better than the democrat on the commission Michael Copps. Copps was always the one commissioner that wanted even higher fines, for lesser offenses, and even has suggested revoking licenses.

Google those and you'll see.

[NurseLefty]

52. You don't know a good thing until it's gone.

This is a bit nihilist, but maybe what it will take for our country - namely, our ignorant youth - to realize how blessed we are to have The Bill of Rights is for those rights to be taken away. Our current president and his party are the closest in our history we've had to fascist rule. With poll results like these, *-cheney & co. are poised to seize all the power they can.
When the youth of America realize that getting a college education is harder than anticipated, finding a family wage job is more elusive, that healthcare is out of reach, that there IS NO SAFETY NET, and then finding they have NO RECOURSE or rights to fight for a better way of life, then MAYBE, just MAYBE, they'll wake up. But by then, it will be too late.
America is seriously ill and is heading to the ICU or hospice...
:scared: :scared: :scared: :( :( :(

[SemiCharmedQuark]

53. It's cyclic.

This generation has not ever known a time when their rights were threatened. I would bet 1000 dollars next generation will value their rights a LOT.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. Do you think these kids even THOUGHT while taking the poll?

Some kids are so dense, they simply answer without thinking anymore.

[THUNDER HANDS]

56. I blame the baby boomer generation

worst. generation. ever.

[MindPilot]

64. excuse me? You better be ready to back that up.

Space travel, civil rights, computers, women's rights, etc etc. Just when did we become the worst generation?

[Spacejet]

57. This isn't surprising, as someone who just graduated from HS

I can tell you the "students have no rights what so ever" mantra has sunk in.

School now is basically an instrument of the state and corporations to prepare people for there life of corporate servitude. In fact, this WAS the mission statement of my grade schools. Not in those words, of course, but same thing worded nicer. The point is NOT to learn how government works. NOT to learn anything BUT what would be helpful for a corporation.

Students have next to no constitutional rights in school, and they are taught that. So why would they think they have rights when they leave when they've been taught them don't?

Ironically, a republican told me it best - we don't have schools anymore, we have trade schools. And that goes for everything from pre-k to college.

[Ariana Celeste]

137. right the hell on dude...

EXACTLY.

Exactly. :hi:

[Jilfreeza]

58. Crap

This reminds me of that "study" that william pollack put out a few years ago claiming that all boys were suicidal and needed to be reprogrammed as feminists to survive. It caused alot of panic and it turned to be a bunch of crap. Whoever put out this "study" is probably doing what the neo-cons have been doing for years - using "the children" to get everyone scared and accept their political goals. It looks like it is working too.

You guys need to get a grip because you are starting to sound like Bill Bennetts and his ilk - Complaining anout MTV and evil pop-culture , having a "kids these days are so bad" attitude. If anybody did give teenagers these ideas, it is the right-wing nutjobs. they have been pretty successful in taking over schools (abstinence education, for example). We need to remain calm and not develop the bigoted beliefs of the neo-con nuts.

[yardwork]

60. Before we panic, let's remember that this is ONE poll

and the article tells us very little about how the sample size was determined, how the questions were worded, etc. In other words, it's as meaningful as a single post on DU - might be brilliant, might be an outlier.

As the mother of a preteen and a teen, I've seen a lot of liberal thought among my sons' peers. Let's not condemn a whole generation on the basis of one poll.

[Bluebear]

79. Oh I don't condemn the generation, I just hope they don't condemn us!

Can you picture little Hitleresque 20-somethings reigning in those 'old' liberals? You're right, it is one poll but I too fear that they have been brainwashed well.

[Ms Chicklet]

61. Lazy, stupid spawn of lazy, stupid Middle 'murka

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. I think many just haven't yet learned the value of balance --

"Each year, a majority of Americans have said they would restrict public remarks that might offend people of other faiths or races. About half of those surveyed have said they would restrict the public display of potentially offensive art. Almost four Americans in 10 have told us they would limit the public performance of music that might offend others."

Many of these kids could be advocating the banning of the confederate flag, distribution of anti-gay literature, etc. I know that, when I was 15, I was anti-war, pro-Bobbie Kennedy, and I didn't have a clue about the full context of restricting hate speech. I really thought just shutting the neanderthals up would work.

OTOH, many of these are also incipient fascists.

Only time will tell.

[Colorado Blue]

132. "About half of those surveyed have said they would restrict

the public display of potentially offensive art."

Whew.

As an artist this really worries me. That would include, probably, the Sistine Chapel. Prudes in the 16th century insisted on painting little loinclothes on Michelangelo's nudes.

A hallmark of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia was a crackdown on artists, many of whom had to flee or were sent to concentration camps or the Gulag. I think most liberals would agree this sucks.

How can we square this respect for the freedom and indeed, the necessity of the artist to BE free, with our restrictions on hate speech, sexual harrassment, so forth?

It seems to set up a conundrum.

[Liberty Belle]

72. Show this to teachers and school administrators, and...

Insist that they educate kids on the importance of first amendment rights.

Also, if the school can't afford a traditional school newspaper because of paper and printing costs, suggest an e-mailable version.
Or ask parents or local businesses for donations of paper. I'm sure many would be glad to donate some for such a worthy causes.

Note that the article states that students who become involved in journalism develop a greater respect for first amendment freedoms.

[WoodrowFan]

74. before we panic

how does this compare to previous years??

[MsAnthropy]

76. I give this as much weight as those idiotic annual geography studies

that measure how many high school students can't find New York on a map, etc., etc. It proves absolutely nothing except kids hate taking stupid tests and the late-night comedians have a few jokes and it's forgotten.

[Festivito]

77. Needs followup. WHAT WOULD THEY SUGGEST?

Should the government be able to hide hugely profitable contracts given to family and friends? Or, release confidential FBI/CIA information about an opponent party member, while hiding their own?

If NO, what would the darlings suggest as a law?

[Megahurtz]

78. They have been brainwashed well.

[Why Syzygy]

80. Sounds like a job for

SpongeBob SquarePants! Make a MOVIE.

Obviously teaching FREEDOM in our publicly funded 'schools' is not priority. Britney Spears is a wash out as well.

They need a pop idol or cartoon character to teach them about Liberty. Just like everything else.

[HaloKitty]

82. Let's not forget...

...the lesson the 1960s taught us. The most hard core liberal hippy can become a button down conservative in but a few decades time. How many "flower children" voted for Bush in this last election?

In the same way, these kids are a product of our current political climate. When they grow up, they will make up their own minds, whatever they may be.

[Still_Loves_John]

84. I never really believe these polls of high schoolers

Especially if they're conducted within the school itself. I think that, when asked questions which they think underestimate their intelligence, they intentionally pick the wrong answer. I don't think that a quarter of high schoolers can't locate America on a map, I think that a quarter of high schoolers will sarcastically answer such a stupid question.

[Ariana Celeste]

139. You're absolutely right.

Me and my friends made a game out of all the stupid surveys and tests they handed out to us.

These surveys should never be trusted. Too many teenagers get disgusted at the stupid questions, and many of them just find it fun to screw with the results.

(For example.... in one of those drug use surveys they passed out in the school I went to- me and my friends were the ones that answered "yes I've done heroin, yes I've OD'ed, I first did cocaine at 12 yrs of age, etc." we thought it was hilarious.)

[Rose Siding]

86. Robert C Byrd pushed a law to mandate study of the Constitution

snip>
Federal and state officials, meanwhile, have bemoaned a lack of knowledge of U.S. civics and history among young people. Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., has even pushed through a mandate that schools must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the date it was signed in 1787.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/STUDENTS_FIRST_AMENDMENT?SITE=CODEN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

One day. And someone had to make it a law. If everyone's so flipping in LOVE with standardized testing, put the Bill of Rights on the test!!!

This poll just earned my daughter a poster for her room. -And some *redundant* discussion.

We've been over this stuff and I can tell where some of the erroneous judgement is coming from. Teens are all wrapped up in rules at home, school, and in social groups- even just learning to drive- and have to step out of that mindset to see past the benefits of conformity, all the way to individual rights. So we ID the problem and TEACH the importance.

[Logansquare]

87. Mind you, they all just finished reading "The Fountainhead"

There's nothing quite as fascist as an American high school.

[Malva Zebrina]

88. I am very disturbed at the lack of community thinking

in the young. I am becoming convinced that they have not a care in the world except for their own place and ability to buy things or to rise up and make a whole lot of money.

I have not a clue has to why this attitude is prevalent- but the disdain toward the infirm and the elderly has been evident to me on a personal level, for a few years now.

[Knight of Ni]

90. Keep in mind...

...that in the last election, the majority of voters in the 18-25 demographic supported Kerry, which is something you can't say of the majority of any other age group.

There is not nearly enough information about this survey's parameters. How large was the sample? Was it conducted in a red state?

On the other hand, maybe our society's policy of making teenagers the test subjects for new civil rights reductions ISN'T such a great idea.

[The Blue Knight]

91. I'm in High School. I wouldn't get too upset.

Kids are dumb asses. Most of the kids in my government class attention span only goes back to who was the last person kicked off real world.

[Democrat Dragon]

108. Wait till they get drafted!

[superconnected]

92. isn't this the reps intended product with edu budget cuts and trying to

get rid of public education all together?

Remember they don't like people smarter than they are.

This is a generation that has been spoon fed bush/cheney crap on tv everynight. They are growing up a product of that, along with their no child left behind teaching constraints, and budget cuts.

-and it's the ritalin generation.

[Democrat Dragon]

94. I am a teen

And I say that this poll has probably never reached California. Most of the kids I know are center-liberal and one of my friends is a vegitarian far-left hippie.

[sakabatou]

96. We're doomed! DOOMED!

[Peak_Oil]

102. That's MY line!

Dammit

[Anakin Skywalker]

140. No! It Belongs to Me!

Both of youse must pay me a hefty royalty fee for using it! :)

[davepc]

98. Maybe if todays teachers had a half an idea about Jefferson and Locke

and bothered to spread that to their students, but most are woefully ignorant, at least among my peers.

[Bake]

99. The same people who don't want to grow up

There have been a number of studies of an increasing phenomenon among the so-called "younger generation": college grads who don't want to accept adult responsibilities, who move back in with Mom and Dad for a few years, who graduate from college with no idea what they want to do with their lives and who need a few more years to figure it out.

In other words, they need more parenting. Not freedom, but someone to tell them what to do. As in the family, so in their politics.

When I graduated from college, I never again lived with my parents. I knew what I wanted to do with my life (although that direction changed a time or two).

I think the parallel here is striking.

Bake

[Mr_Spock]

100. See what these evil NeoClan Nazi's are teaching their children?

Boy scout motto - "be prepared". We got some serious issues with the future of our country.

[hollowdweller]

122. They grow up with warrantless locker searches, drug dogs in school,

metal detectors, being expelled for saying anything that could remotely be construed as violent without a real hearing, drug testing of atheletes, and v chips and content blocking on computers and we expect them to respect liberty? I'm afraid in the interest of making them safe, they are not being trained to appreciate or handle freedom.

[manxkat]

105. Is it just me, or is the Titanic sinking and

most of the country is in denial?

Did the kids during the Viet Nam era think this way? Sure there was apathy, but there was a hell of a lot of activism too. We even had an underground anti-war newspaper in my little high school in right-wing rural Virginia (not far from Falwell).

Somehow, the Iraq quagmire and all its inherent injustices don't seem to be penetrating the masses' psyches to the point where enough of us will yell at our senators and congresspersons "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore." Of course, said lawmakers in Washington would have to check with their corporate sponsors before making a decision....

Sorry for the cynicism... but we've earned it... and this article just is the icing on the cake regarding the future citizenry of this country.

After I no longer have responsibilities to a family member here, I'm seriously going to be tempted to jump ship and head for saner territory. I'm so sick of paying taxes to a corrupt government that bullies the world with war after war, and living around arrogant, spoiled zombies who don't have a clue what fascism is.

Sorry for the rant.... needed to get that off my chest. Have a nice day. LOL

[manxkat]

106. wanna see something REALLY scary?

"There Is No Tomorrow"
by Bill Moyers
http://truthout.org/docs_2005/013105F.shtml

A few excerpts:

They are the people who believe the Bible is literally true - one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index.

. . . millions of Christian fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed - even hastened - as a sign of the coming apocalypse. We're not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs. Nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election - 231 legislators in total and more since the election - are backed by the religious right.

Forty-five senators and 186 members of the 108th Congress earned 80 to 100 percent approval ratings from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups. They include Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Conference Chair Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, Policy Chair Jon Kyl of Arizona, House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Whip Roy Blunt. The only Democrat to score 100 percent with the Christian coalition was Sen. Zell Miller of Georgia, who recently quoted from the biblical book of Amos on the Senate floor: "The days will come, sayeth the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land." He seemed to be relishing the thought.

[Democrat Dragon]

109. It's people like these

that give Christianity a bad name and athiesm more to work with. BTW, that's a Gallup poll so the poll may have been done in red states.

[Row_Jimmy]

107. Its not the school

In my school, a lot of the teachers are democrats, and preach the constitution and it's strengths. But there are still kids who belive in the censorship. So it can't be the school's fault.

[WillyT]

110. Hey Cat !!! - This Is Not Necessarily New, Majorly Scary, But Not New !!!

During the 1976 bicentennial celebration year, some college or group somewhere, reworded the Declaration of Independence in modern parlance, handed it out on street corners across the country, and asked the 'person on the street' what they thought of such a document.

Everybody was unnerved at the high percentage of Americans who apparently thought the D of I was some radical communist manifesto. Disturbed by this result, they did the same thing with the original text of the D of I, just leaving out the title.

Again they had massive percentages of 'good Americans' who thought that whatever this rag was about, it was DEFINITELY NOT AMERICAN!!!

Just goes to show, we really still DO WANT a monarchy, no???

:shrug:

BTW - I have tried several times in the past to find info on this research, and have had no luck. Anybody else remember this??? Anybody got link???

:hi:

[Anakin Skywalker]

141. "...we really still DO WANT a monarchy, no???"

Yes we do! And you may start by calling me Lord. :)

[poe]

111. keep your kids out of government schools

:think:

[Democrat Dragon]

112. WHERE THE HELL WAS THIS POLL TAKEN!!!???

A red state?

[ast_liberal2008]

113. they have no idea

These students don't know what can happen if the freedoms are taken away, they can't even imagine it. They will feel differently when it is them losing their freedoms.

[Soth]

119. Fear not, fellows...

In high school, I listened to right-wing talk radio. The fellow who drove me to school listened to it, and was also very much a strict Republican. I, myself, was a Republican for a long time.

But then I was exposed to the other side at the end of high school and into college. I realized quickly that I had never actually HEARD the liberal side of things, or the reasoning behind why Democrats did what they did...the only reasons I had gotten were all highly negative Republican-viewed reasons. I changed from Republican to Democrat in short order, and I am ALWAYS trying to acquire all the facts and look at the issues from all possible angles so that I'm never duped again. (As it happens, when I do that, my end view is usually heavily Democratic).

So don't be afraid. People change, especially young people. Why do you think the thing that Republicans fear most is "those durn librul college professors"? Because college teaches you to think for yourself and exposes you to all possible ideas. It lets you choose. Yeah, some of these kids will still be Repubs. But I don't think it's as bleak as it looks.

[Johonny]

130. Does college help?

College can teach you to critically think but only if you want to learn it. I went to a small catholic college. Most of my college classmates were sheeple. College today for many is just that thing you do after high school. They learn more how to drink than how to think. If they're lucky they learned some life skill that will get them a job.

[hoosierblue]

123. I wouldn't take this article too seriously

Yes, I understand we don't want America's kids growing up fascist (sounds like a sitcom, Growing Up Fascist), but try to understand the environment these kids are in. Popular kids rule. Gays are ridiculed. Girls are treated worse than 2nd class citizens (if I had a nickel for every time I was called a dyke for kicking a ball as hard as the boys). Blacks are segregated from the white population (oh if only desegration had happened. Teachers and principals work as hard as they can to make the schoolroom like a military drill line--no talking, eating, drinking, getting up from your seat, going to the bathroom, going ahead in the book (I never understood this), etc.

The kids are in the military practically. They're going to be more DEPENDENT on authoritarianism.

Remember, last election the young voters were with us Dems, not the GOP.

[LiberalVoice]

125. You also have to remember that young people are stupid.

I am one so before you decide to start screaming at me lay off. Most of them could give a shit about the current instability here or abroad. They're much more interested in when the next Usher CD is coming out.

[DelawareValleyDem]

128. The hate America, that's what wrong

and they hate it for its freedoms :-)

[mdhunter]

129. FreeRepublic's take on this story....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1333452/posts

Liberals to blame, naturally.

<edit> yeah me, 300 posts! </edit>

[Darknyte7]

135. Every now an dagain...

those nuts manage to suprise me anew. Amazing...

[Anakin Skywalker]

142. Are you Ready?

for the prestigious 700 Club? :) Heh heh.

[Individualist]

131. They're products of today's culture

with it's stifling nationalism and TV "news" personalities who spew propoganda. As has been noted in previous posts, garbage TV programming and mind numbing video games are also factors.

[RaleighNCDUer]

134. OTOH, during this last year, the kids with hot pink and neon

blue hair vastly outnumbered the grey-haired old farts like me at the Dean, then Edwards, then Kerry rallies, and all the anti-war rallies I attended.

Yes, there are kids who are benumbed by the constant battering from the RW media, but the kids I work with, some still in HS, some college, some between, tend to moderate liberalism and this is in a red state.

One thing I know the kids hate, just as we all did when we were kids, is to be lied to. Those who go straight from homeschool or christian school to BJU may not get the word, but most get out there are realize that the world is not as they've been told by Faux and the Pres. They know they've been lied to, and they're pissed off.

[wadestock]

136. It's true on average

They bought into the corporate America scum bag trip that their parents have been teaching them in earnest through their desperation.

Take what you can...get away with what you can....is what they've picked up....whether we wanted to impress this on them or not. They've never seen the side of America which was "an honest dollar for an honest day's work".

I tutor several subjects and have found that the entire motif of college has changed over the last 10 to 20 years too. Cheating is extremely acceptable these days. I've met too many kids that don't seem to have much to say for themselves. When I was in my late teens and 20s I thought I could solve any problem....and I'd tell you for hours how to do it. I've met too many kids these days that have nothing to say. They don't think it's worth it.

Alot of it has to do with the bombardment of BS. I've seen too many kids overly high strung....hit this way and that way...punch drunk from too many influences.... and coming away devoid of culture. They are easy prey for manipulation because they react, they don't think.

[Democat]

143. They have been brainwashed by the media and government

And their kids will be brainwashed even more.

[professor_chaos]

145. I've seen it happen.

I saw the effects of this in my high school a few years ago.
When I was a sophomore, the school announced that it would offer a class called "American Studies" for juniors the next year, which would meet the requirements for both Junior year English and History classes. American Studies met twice a day, and was typically taught as a joint course instead of split into English and History.
On the advice of my Sophomore year English teacher, who was to teach American Studies the next year, I elected to take the class. Our textbook was Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United Sates." The other teacher would, on occasion, take out his guitar and play a Bob Dylan song for us. They let us loose in the woods next to the school for our entire period (a combined two hours) and let us write freely, writing which would be unseen, let alone graded, by them, so to get in the mood of Thoreau and to understand Transcendentalism. It was the best class many of us had ever taken. The late nights working on papers, the reading hundreds of pages a week (we were in high school, remember - that was a lot to us)... It was more than an education; it was an experience.
The year after, I believe, students (and their parents) began to speak up. The class was too liberal, they said. How could the high school of a Republican town use a Socialist's book as their text?
After that year, under pressure from the principal and the Board of Education, both teachers "voluntarily" left the school. The class still exists, but is not the free environment I knew it to be. The students had pushed the administration (not that it took a lot) and succeeded. We were learning too much about the "other side," one said.
While I'm not surprised by this article, it has convinced me to continue my quest to provide an "alternate education."

[Jilfreeza]

147. Listen to yourselves

You guys are starting to sound just like Bill O'reilly and his loony right-wing friends(i.e. complaining about the evils of television and video games, complaining about "bad behavier", and even accusing others of being "anti-american".

I find it interesting that you all call yourselves "liberal" and yet you descend into the same name-calling and morality lectures as the right the moment you see something you don't like, even if you don't know if it's accurate. This is not good for the progressive movement.