Senator Hatch refused to help abused polygamy girls

[Dems Will Win]

ST. GEORGE, Utah - Sen. Orrin Hatch, attending a town meeting in southern Utah, found himself pressed by anti-polygamy activists to take a stand against the practice.

Bob Curran, director of the anti-polygamy group Help the Child Brides, asked the Utah Republican on Thursday, why, only an hour away, "thugs" rape children and nothing is being done to stop it.

-snip-

"I'm not here to justify polygamy," he said. "All I can say is, I know people in Hilldale who are polygamists who are very fine people. You come and show me evidence of children being abused there and I'll get involved. Bring the evidence to me."

Hatch said he could not take unsubstantiated claims and enforce law, and he would not "sit here and judge anybody just because they live differently than me.

-snip-

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2003%2049ap.htm

So the Republicans protect the FLDS polygamists in Hildale while they use Gay Marriage as club to beat Democrats in elections. Could we start sending this info out to Evangelical boards and forums and get them talking about the Republican betrayal of Evangelicals in this way?

Nothing against the Mormons or people who want to live together, it just seems to me that if we in the blogosphere started getting the word out to the Christian Right, they may pick the polygamy ball up and run with it themselves. Dems can just try to prosecute the child abusers and push for more prosecutions--but the Christian Right could start getting upset with the GOP about their quiet support and connections to polygamists if the complaints come from the Far Right--like Freeperville.

New HHS Secy Mike LEavitt also once said, in 1998, that polygamy could be protected under the First Amendment. He later had to take it back. 33% of FLDS are on welfare illegally, instead of 5% of population. Leavitt, now in charge of welfare, will keep increasing the welfare subsidy of the polygamists, as well as paying for the disabled children from all the inbreeding (big problem and cost)

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/media%20plyg%2034%20trib.htm

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/media%20plyg%208trib.htm

Leavitt has met with Fred Jessop, one of the most notorious Fundamentalist LDS clan leaders. One polygamy clan, the Kingstons, are reportedly worth $11 billion.

GOP UT State Sen Zolman also has an agenda with, he says, other Utah Republicans, to stage in de-criminalization of polygamy, while a Polygam Ban Challenge was just filed on Jan. 12--and that has a chance of reaching the Supreme Court (where it would likely not be reviewed or lose). So polygamy, which was an issue for most of American history is back, and the Republicans have been quietly not prosecuting wherever possible, except for media cases like the Tom Green case.

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2099%20192%20trib.htm

Here is more about the very fine FLDS polygamists Hatch was referring to, the same Hildale clan:

-snip-

There are an estimated 10,000 members of the Johnson/Jeffs clan in Colorado City and Hilldale, with followers also living along the Wasatch Front. Although this group doesn't marry as closely as the Kingston clan does, they do intermarry. According to Chapman, one of the leaders tells members that it's all right to marry relatives as close as cousins, and uncles to nieces. Like the Kingstons, they are also producing children with genetic disorders, such as Tourette's syndrome, as well as dealing with some communicable diseases because polygamists don't inoculate their children. Ross Martin, public information officer for the Utah Department of Health, says whooping cough is currently spreading through the community.

Chapman describes a world for girls in which there is no semblance of childhood or innocence. The prevalence of pedophilic behavior dominates the culture. The victims are forced to revere their abusers. "It would be difficult to pull a girl out of Colorado City who hasn't been sexually assaulted," she claims. "I know girls as young as 9 years old who have been forced to marry."

Besides sexual abuse endured by girls, they're also condemned to a life of child slavery. "Like other girls my age, I was cooking meals for our entire family (of 36 people) and sewing clothes by age 13," Chapman recounts. "At age 10, I was baking a dozen loaves of bread at a time."

-snip-

Born the 25th of her father's 31 children, Chapman's earliest memories are of molestation by her father. "I can remember my father molesting me as early as 2 years old, waking up terrified with him in my room. That lasted until I was 13," she says. Between the ages of 13 and 15 she was routinely molested by some of her brothers. "When I confided to my mom what my brothers were doing we had to go to my father about it," she remembers. "He told my mom he wanted to talk to her alone and when she came out she said, 'Your father says we have to let be who they're going to be.'"

-snip-

More links:

ttp://www.polygamy.com

http://www.pro-polygamy.com

http://www.polygamy.org/

http://www.lds-mormon.com/mormon_polygamy.shtml

http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/polygamy.html

http://www.christianpolygamy.com/

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ntpoly.htm

http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/nichols/ch3.html

Anybody willing to take a foray into Freepersville and let them know about old Orrin and the Hildale refusal and Leavitt and the First Amendment? He said he would not accept evidence from the people right in front of him who had it because he's not a law enforcement officer, right after he asked for the evidence!! What total BS!

The ex-wives can't get the local cops or State AG to do the cases they brought up and Hatch just wanted to poo-poo the alleged abuse and even incest and rape, while they were standing there with the case folders in their hand!

PLEASE ON THIS THREAD LET US DISCUSS HOW THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT CAN BE INFORMED OF THIS REPUBLICAN QUIET SUPPORT OF THE ABUSIVE FLDS CLANS, NOT WHETHER POLYGAMY SHOULD BE LEGAL OR NOT. IT WILL NOT BECOME LEGAL IN OUR LIFETIMES.

HOW DO WE GET THE FAR RIGHT INFORMED ABOUT HATCH, LEAVITT AND ZOLMAN?
POLYGAMY IN ISLAM, THE POLYGAMISTS QUOTE THE OLD TESTAMENT ABOUT MULTIPLE WIVES, WHAT ARE SOME APPROACHES TO THIS AND WHO WILL HELP BE A BLOGO-WARRIOR?

NOT TO ATTACK THE MORMON RELIGION! JUST COMMENT ON THE BETRAYAL OF EVANGELICALS BY THE REPUB TACIT SUPPORT AND INACTION IN UT AND OTHER STATES.

[liveoaktx]

1. Right now it's illegal, correct? So, whether Hatch has evidence

or not, he should be upholding the law, not praising polygamists.

[Oreo]

2. Aiding and abetting?

Isn't that kind of illegal?
after reading more... it's illegal... but... they don't enforce it...NICE!

Read this from the Utah Office of the Attorney General
http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/polygamy.html

Polygamy

Home/Crime & Violence Prevention /Polygamy

Polygamy is illegal in Utah and forbidden by the Arizona constitution. However, law enforcement agencies in both states have decided to focus on crimes within polygamous communities that involve child abuse, domestic violence and fraud. The Utah Attorney General's Office and the Arizona Attorney General's Office also worked together to produce "The Primer---Helping Victims of Domestic Violence and Child Abuse in Polygamous Communities." This manual provides basic information about various polygamous communities that will assist human services professionals, law enforcement officers and others in helping victims from these communities. The Primer will be updated regularly to reflect modifications in the law and changes in each organization's beliefs and

[Dems Will Win]

4. Shurtleff is the worst Republican offender in fact

<i>Polygamy is illegal in Utah and forbidden by the Arizona constitution. However, law enforcement agencies in both states have decided to focus on crimes within polygamous communities that involve child abuse, domestic violence and fraud.</i>

That's Shurtleff's way of saying he's tough, but in reality he only prosecutes when the pressure by the media to not go to court is too great. He's actually their head bag man, so the really top polygamy cases aren't too onerous or too high a level. Watch what they do and not what they say. They know who the polygamists are and their legally unmarried wives and then they don't arrest them for bigamy and let them continue to draw welfare for each wife as a single mother!

It's Republican subsidies for their FLDS polygamist voters.

[Hamlette]

25. Shurtleff is not what you say he is

I've worked with Shurtleff on this issue. It is more complicated than you think and he has done more than ANY politician in Utah to help the victims of polygamy. He also was the ONLY politician in Utah to come out against the amendment to ban gay marriage, which passed last November.

I'm not a fan. But he's been right on this issue.

In the 1950's they arrested polygamists and jailed them. The kids left behind where the big story. It remains the same now. Are those kids better off in foster care? I can't say that they are. Oh, and neither can you.

[Snotcicles]

22. Hatch is a POLY-WANNABE haha n/t

[cthrumatrix]

3. What would Jesus do....? I think you get the picture.

[librechik]

5. did he spankkk them and send them back to their husband/fathers? n/t

[atreides1]

6. You Need To Ask Yourself An Honest Question

Do you really think that the Evangelicals on the far right will even care?

They know what's going on, but in order to keep their numbers strong, they have been looking the other way. There is a strong Mormon community here in Arizona, and there were several TV news reports of polygamy taking place on the Arizona/Utah border, but
you didn't hear word one from any of the Evangelical churches here in Arizona, at least they didn't want to be interviewed.

As I sadi they know what's going on, but they are willing to accept it, as long as they can unite to fight against gay marriage and abortion, and cartoon characters.

I wish you luck, but I don't think you're going to get many allies from the right.

[Dems Will Win]

7. Well if we nudge them with threads on FR and Dobson's site

we can try.

Also Leavitt should be questioned about the welfare pay to FLDS and the incest and inbred children charges that are never followed up.

[onenote]

10. they won't care, but...

it seems like gay marriage has resonated as an issue not just with hard core fundies, but also with some non-fundie surbanites...I think a lot of them would be as opposed to polygamy as they are to gay marriage and I think pushing the hypocrisy to the forefront may ultimately have the effect of weakening support for gay marriage bans (as those who want to look the other way on polygamy decide that maybe they should focus on issues other than "marriage is the union of one man and one woman"

onenote

[w4rma]

12. They aren't all of one mind. Bring an issue like this to the forefront and

that *will* peel off some of them. Besides, it's the ethical thing to do, to go after this stuff.

[Dems Will Win]

14. Exactly! Evangelicals often vote on their religion first

They may not vote Dem but they may feel betrayed by the Repubs on this and the inaciton on the Gay Amendment and stay home the next time.

DU, think about it!

[atreides1]

16. Do Ethics Matter to the RW Fundies

I have no problem with doing the ethical thing, but looking at the current track record of the RW Fundies, ethics has little to do with their agenda.

They still support a war based on lies, they scream bloody murder about abortion, but cheer when the bombs were dropping on Falluja,
they march against Gay marriage, and do little for the homeless or the poor.

So from what I've seen, ethics has very little place in their twisted world.

Hilldale Utah and Colorado City Arizona has been a haven for polygamists for over a century, the people that lived there refused to denounce polygamy. Arizona law enforcement tried to do something back in the 50's but to little avail.

I honestly don't think you or anyone else will have any luck peeling some of them off, but give it a try, if it works great, if it doesn't well then we all know how ethical the RW can be, don't we?

[aquart]

8. So one man and ten women is better for marriage

than one man and one man or one woman and one woman?

And better for a child to have one daddy and ten mommas?

[patdem]

9. DOES HE MEAN GAYS? "judge anybody just because they live differently"

Hatch said he could not take unsubstantiated claims and enforce law, and he would not "sit here and judge anybody just because they live differently than me.

Does that include GLBT folks too, or just your special brand of 'differenly than me'? :grr: Why do repukes allways make me reach for the grr smilie? :grr:

[SemperEadem]

11. what is Hatch's position on the gay marriage amendment

Adam and Steve is more offensive that Adam and Eve & Jennifer & Rita & Emily & Mary & Charity and all of their children to the institution of marriage? This problem needs to be solved, first, before going after gay couples. I think polygamy does more to diminish the 'sanctaty of marriage' and the 'one man/one woman' definition than anything else.

[Dems Will Win]

13. This would profoundly affect the women's vote and the suburban vote

If we can get the Hatch, Leavitt and Zolman statements out there.

[onenote]

15. question about polygamy

The issue regarding same sex marriage is whether the state should recognize such unions as legal entities; churches can declare same sex couples "married" in the eyes of the church, it just doesn't carry the legal rights of an opposite sex union.

If polygamy is "llegal"in Utah, that presumably means the state doesn't recognize those unions. Thus, when the AG's office indicates that they look the other way what does that mean? If a guy lives with three women (or vice versa), is that polygamy or just a guy living with three women. They may hold themselves out as married, but the state doesn't recognize it. What are they doing that's illegal? Just trying to sort this out....

onenote

[daleo]

17. I think it's illegal for a church to sanctify polygamy

It amounts to encouraging breaking the law against bigamy. I think the way the government got the mainstream Mormon church to condemn polygamy was through threats to take away tax free status, though. It is an interesting legal point.

"Under the Banner of Heaven" by John Krakhauer is an interesting book on the subject.

[Dems Will Win]

19. The mainstream LDS Temple ex-communicates if the polygamy is flaunted

and they officially condemn the FLDS break-away sect--which does have polygamy in its doctrine.

They just don't legally marry and the Repub authorities in UT let them get away with it. The Dems there want to fund a special prosecution budget and the RW keeps voting it down, except once in a while they fund it but then mostly sit on the money!

It's ridiculous.

[seito]

24. If a man has more than one wife

Or a wife, and many non-wives that he is intimate with, that would be considered adultery, and grounds for ex-communication.

Polygamy is no longer practiced, nor condoned by the LDS church.

[Hamlette]

27. the "mainstream" Mormon church had to give up polygamy for

statehood. Had nothing to do with taxes. The "mainstream" chuch currently condems polygamy but it is an embarrassing issue since they once said it was the word of God.

It is illegal. But...if you want them to prosecute adults living together....do you want them to go after unmarried 2 adult units as well?

[daleo]

28. It is a difficult issue.

If all are consenting adults and the state has not sealed the deal (and thus the plural relationship has no legal standing), then I suppose it is nobody's business, really.

As an aside, I do think there are compelling reasons why same sex marriage might be considered constitutional, while multiple partner marriage might not be. Essentially, a ruling against same sex marriage prohibits a person from engaging in marriage at all (unless they engage in a false marriage with someone of the opposite sex whom they didn't really want to be with), while a prohibition against multiple partners still allows people to engage in marriage but it restricts their range of partners to one (although that one partner could still be someone they intensely desired to be with).

[Hamlette]

29. there are other compelling reasons

to allow same sex marriage while outlawing polygamy. One such argument is most such relationships are not economically viable and custody issues in the event of divorce.

[daleo]

30. Yes, I think a fair number of reasons can be enumerated,

Including those you listed.

There is also the argument from numerical equality. One partner is contracting with another in an exclusive arrangement, so there is a symmetry there - each gives and receives the same rights and responsibilities as the other. In a plural marriage, at least of the multiple wife sort which is usually envisioned, the husband is getting an exclusive benefit from each wife but each wife is only getting partial access (using the term widely) to the husband. So the relationship can be seen as inherently unequal.

The argument is not as compelling in a truly polyamourous relationship where every partner to the marriage could be argued to be receiving equal benefits, though. I doubt many Old Testament followers in this regard are seriously considering that sort of multiple marriage, however.

At any rate, I do think that there are multiple legal avenues to put aside the same sex equals polygamy argument.

[Dems Will Win]

18. They only legally marry one wife

or maybe none. The rest are "spiritual wives" married religiously. But they are given the last name of the husband and btw, have no consent over subsequent wives their husband may "marry".

This is the legal excuse used to not come down on the clan leaders while they can then pick off a few sacrificial lambs from the FLDS clans to keep the media quiet.

[seito]

23. The LDS "Mormon" church does not condone polygamy

nor do they "spiritually" bond a man with multiple wives. The only time a man may marry a second wife in the LDS temple is when his previous wife has passed away, or he has been granted a divorce.

The sects that still practice polygamy are not associated with the Mormon church.

[Dems Will Win]

26. I said FLDS, the Fundamentalist LDS break-away sect.

Although the ex-wives maintain that 3% of mainstream LDs are secret polygamists. That would be about 420,000 Mormon polygamists out of 14 million LDS, plus figure 60,000 FLDS in polygamy.

There are no polls, of course, as it's illegal.

[Cell Whitman]

20. Orrin knows where the right's buns are buttered...

Did you know we had a national holiday to honor the right's True Savior? Moon brags that most congressman and people who passed the holiday had no idea what they were doing. Orrin knows who Moon is and promotes him.

Orrin helps promote Moon's agenda.

The following evening, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) introduced Mrs. Moon to an audience of approximately 200 gathered in a Senate meeting room at the Dirksen Office Building. The Rev. Moon himself sat in the front row.

The Washington Times reported the palest possible version of Mrs. Moon's speech. It quoted her briefly decrying the increase in divorces and neglected children and mentioned the conservative luminaries in the audience, suggesting that Unification Church's views on family matters had made the Church some important friends on Capitol Hill. The Times didn't quote Mrs. Moon's declaration that she and her husband are the True Parents of mankind, destined to finish what Jesus couldn't.

The Unification News offered a much richer account of the event. Hatch "extolled the long suffering and personal sacrifice of Mrs. Moon and her husband," the News reported, "and he particularly commended the couple for their investment in the Washington Times, a vehicle that he said has been a benefit to the nation's capital. Senator Hatch, in his warm introductory remarks, referred more than once to Mrs. Moon as 'my friend'." The News then detailed Mrs. Moon's speech in its full theological glory -- and vividly described listeners' reactions. "As Mrs. Moon began speaking, the audience became hushed and respectful as they settled into their plush leather chairs. Many congressmen were visibly moved, and some even wiped away a tear as she described the suffering she and her husband had endured in their lives for the sake of accomplishing the will of God."




Can you say Conservatives are a soul selling lot?

[anarchy1999]

21. I never have had any respect for Hatch. Confirmed now more than ever.

Victim of abuse by my father, so I think I have some credibility here. Unbelievable!

[Cleita]

31. Well, this is a man who is supporting sexual molester and

predator Arnold Schwarzenegger to be President of the US by pushing an ammendment through so he can run. I wouldn't be surprised if you rummaged around in his private life and past, that there just might be some child brides in his family skeleton closet.