Republicans are messing with the wrong people.

[jdj]

I can't quite understand how they think they will benefit from their war on entitlements.

They don't have any concept of the fact that poor people know how to live, and that we can grow produce in our freaking backyard, carpool, mend clothes, and buy stuff at yardsales.

If the middle class and working class drop into depression-era conservation, which we are only a couple of generations out of, most of us have a living relative or too who can help us figure out how to cope.

But if no goods and services are being bought or used because only the upper class can freaking afford it, what are they going to do.

I think the social security smokescreen coverup of the Republican attack on health care is the stupidest thing they could think of to do to themselves, because most of us don't have to reach that far back to remember what life was like three-quarters of a century ago, and we may just decide we don't need all this crap that we are buying that is keeping them solvent and making millionaires out of their chosen-one CEO's. Some of us are living this way already, but when the mass of the middle class digests what the lack of health insurance can do to their entertainment/clothing/non-necessity budget and redirects their spending accordingly...wow.

The only reason repukes would make such a stupid move is because they have no concept of not-having-enough-money.

[gizmo1979]

1. But those are good family values right!

everyone needs to pay for their own way,unless you're rich in which case we'll not only let you keep all of your money,we'll also give them yours too.It's my Monopoly theory of the rich,they won't have enough money until nobody else has any at all!

[jdj]

3. I read that chapter in Palast's book about Koch

couple that with what I know about Scaife and it seems to be a disease or something.

I wonder if it's a progressive thing like chemical addiction.

I'm saying we can live on less probably a lot better than their billionaires can be dropped down to millionairess.

[Sirveri]

2. Keep raising the MI until a popular revolution occurs.

You can only step on people for so long before they get fed up and strike back. Last time we got FDR and narrowly avoided sliding into a communist state, this time we're unlikely to be as lucky.

[jdj]

5. Every time they say "remember 9/11" I think "remember Bastille Day". n/t

[tubbacheez]

4. The old 'create a market' trick at work.

In the big picture, you're right.

Part of the current illusion is the mass marketing of wealth as 1). something to aspire to, and 2). attainable if you work hard enough within the conservative-dominated system.

Both of these claims are modern American myths, created by the Haves to influence the Have-nots. The current education system, which has weakened public schools and boosted the mass media, constantly marinades American citizens in this stupefying dream.



The situation is getting close to ripe for a "home spun" rebellion similar to what Ghandi did with the cotton trade in India.

[Sirveri]

6. Not everyone can be rich. There simply isn't enough money.

But it's possible that most everyone could be middle class... especially if there were no rich. I haven't figured out if there is enough energy present in the system to allow for that.

[tubbacheez]

8. More broadly, though, would be how we define wealth.

Money itself is incredibly flexible. We can always print more (and suffer the resulting inflation). What you probably meant to say was that buying power is limited and not everyone will be able to buy everything she wants.

What's interesting about that notion is how flexible it too is. Buying power is heavily dependent on what people view as valuable or desirable. So it's technically possible that changes in how wealth is perceived can result in larger percentages of humanity obtaining what they want.

For a simplified example, suppose the entire world has been mass educated to believe that Product A is worth having. This defines wealth in terms of one product. Human greed will ensure that there won't be enough Product A to go around. Those who manufacture or sell it can make tons of money. Those who have Product A will be economically superior to those who don't. And printing more money won't help because a person's ability to buy Product A won't have changed.

Now suppose that the entire world does not share that same appreciation for Product A. The diversification of what humans value can spread out the buying power. Get rid of the conformity and uniformity in thought, and humans can help each other obtain their individual and unique needs.

[Sirveri]

12. I agree with you, I actually wrote a editorial about it a year ago.

I compared money to energy. Thus there is only so much energy in the world with which to use to acquire products. When one takes a greater share than others, then all the others suffer as a result. Overall, I think in time, human greed will destroy any system, that education will deteriorate, that civics will be ignored. And then the dark times come and we get to start all over again. We need a system that is capable of identifying people who are competant to wield power.

Hence my objections to the current pResident, he is simply not competant. If he were competant and able then I could easily support some of his actions, however then he likely would not be in the pocket of big business and waging war for their pleasure. He would be a competant diplomat who would have resolved all issues with the point of a pen instead of the barrel of a gun. But alas, society seeks no such people, they seek those who can win popularity contests. Those who can cheat best as well. Oh well, that's what happens when education deteriorates in a society.

[K-W]

9. We have to think outside of the current class structure.

To see any end to having a lower class. You cant have a middle class without a lower class.

It would mean a completely different economic structure.

[Sirveri]

11. I think that's viable in localised areas.

But I don't think it is globally viable as a whole. In a bubble I suspect it could, but then it would be because the middle class inside the bubble was stripping away the wealth of those outside of it. Greed will always be in the system, it's not possible to truly eliminate it. We could eliminate money, but then there would be less incentive to work. Basically my thought is that humanity is too willing to strive for its own gain to successfully work together to build something better while settling for less. Eventually some sort of tension will arise to divide the structure, some sort of class will settle in. Certain families will excel socially and thus be in greater demand. Their offspring will be looked at with greater reverance.

I think ultimately that humanity will always create power structures, and that it is these structures that ultimately allow us to survive and work together more cohesivly, and if that's the case, then we shouldn't seek to destroy them, but to reform them so that they work properly. To scour the society to properly place people into the correct tiers. I'd love to see a system where the bricklayer was as valued and cherished as the CEO. Where the Artist was as cherished as the clergy or the scientist. A society that recognises that not everyone can excel at everything, and that certain people are more capable to do certain things. At least, this is what I think of when I think of post-communism, where the transition should ultimately lead. It is quite depressing that we will likely never reach that point due to the greed and arrogance of those who would assume power.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Smug & Ignorant...They're Day Is Coming

The Repugnicans don't know nor care what it is to be in the middle class...that's akin to being sub-human to them. Things they consume just appear, there aren't people who make them, just the kid who stocks the shelves at the Wal-Mart, and he should be glad to have the job.

I now think we have three classes in this country. The rich, those getting by and those who are drowning (usually caused by actions of the rich)...the getting-bys are buying the bullshit from the rich...since they want to be rich, too...ignoring their own best interests in the meantime. A few may make it to "rich land", but most never do and are just used and discarded.

Somehow this country has evolved into a culture where play and luxuary are the goals, hard work and compassion have no place when one needs to accumulate toys and impress others.

These were similar conditions in the 1920's...right before the market crashed and sanity returned. The unfortunate side of this is that the poor get crapped on coming and going here...but at least the rich are put in their place for a while.

[tabasco]

10. The very nature of corporate hegemony is ...

short-sighted obsession with the bottom line. Corporations do not care about the future of any nation. Corporate powers are not steeped in history and do not care about possible revolutions. The greed of the rich and powerful always results in destruction. Freedom-loving people always have to fight to regain their freedom and rebuild society from the ground up. History repeats itself again and again and the US is not immune from history.