Republicans Understimate Howard Dean

[ruggerson]

And I think it's great. Let them keep on trying to paint him as a loose cannon. Watch what Howard does with this party over the next few years. And watch the Republicans as they begin to realize, holy shit, this guy has what it takes to take the country back from us.

I hope they keep on underestimating him. Will make his job that mucn more fun.

[rawtribe]

1. I sure hope so

B-)

[Peak_Oil]

6. Dean. Dean. Dean.

Dean's the man. If he can't do it, noone can.

Dean.

Dean.

Dean.

Dean.

[Ruffhowse]

2. Dean has always impressed me with his intelligence and his ability to

think quickly on his feet. He is excellent in media interviews, and really gives it to the Repukes like no one else today. I think because he is so intelligent, the Repukes are going to underestimate him, because they wouldn't know real intelligence if it stepped forward and socked em in the eye.

[jsw_81]

11. You can't be serious

This is a guy who blew $50 million, lost every single primary/caucus, and went on national television to say that we weren't better off with Saddam in prison. Not to mention the fact that he joked about becoming America's first gay president (yes, Dean really said this).

The Republicans have compiled a devastating list of Dean-gaffes (Deanisms?) that is literally a mile long, and you can bet that they'll ensure that come election day 2006 every single swing-state voter will know about all of them.

[Kipepeo]

15. Your quote

"The Republicans have compiled a devastating list of Dean-gaffes (Deanisms?)"

Wow. A list? And you repeat it *just* for fun?

;)

[jsw_81]

21. You joke about it

But this is serious stuff. They literally have a video of Dean telling a gay group that he wants to be America's first gay president. We know that he was just fooling around, but how do you think voters in Alabama will react when they see it? Or Texas? Or Kentucky? Like I said, the red states will only get redder.

[Kipepeo]

24. I don't joke about anything in that post

I am deadly serious about my shock at your regurgitated RW talking points.

Who really CARES that he said something so stupid? Were we so afraid when Kerry said he'd be the second black president?? I recoiled in frustration at his ignorance and stupid idea of "hip," but I didn't think OMG!!! The red states will not vote for us like they would have before this comment!!

Gee whiz, I guarantee you that 1) A great many republicans do not think ill of Dean and 2) those that do...who cares?? Those would not think well of any Democrat...it's not like Dean is any lower on their right-wing acceptability rung than Kerry or any other Democrat is.

But thanks for airing RW attack points like serious, here on DU.

[jsw_81]

28. You underestimate the hatred the right-wingers have for gays

And the fact that Dean worked for Planned Parenthood shortly after med school certainly doesn't help.

You see, the right-wing is obsessed with what they see as the twin "evils" of homosexuality and abortion, and if you think that their get-out-the-vote efforts in 2004 were impressive (and they were -- they banned gay marriage in 11 states, even Oregon), you ain't seen nothing yet. The right-wing will, with great effectiveness, portray Dean as the literal personification of blue state evil and "sin," and we will face a Republican resurgence the likes of which we haven't seen since 1994. We might very well end up with a filibuster-proof GOP Senate majority and a conservative lock on the judiciary that will last for thirty, forty, maybe even fifty years.

And at that point nobody -- not even the doctor from Vermont -- will be able to revive our dying shell of a party. We will go the way of the Whigs and find ourselves living in a conservative nightmare for the rest of our lives.

[Kipepeo]

29. I think you are a pessimist

but no realist.

I don't underestimate homophobia and sexism. I am from the darkest recesses of the republican bible belt, friend. :)

But I know that over time more and more people become opposed to bigotry and discrimination. It happened with racism and it will happen with heterosexism. Polls of younger people already show a much larger percentage in favor of equal rights for gays and lesbians.

AND - I think you "misunderestimate" :) the intelligence of some red-staters. I am fully convinced that more will turn blue if we offer them a definitive choice and difference from what they are seeing in the Republican party. Part of the problem itself is when Democrats cede territory on so-called moral issues and treat them like ANYTHING other than what they are: shallow political tools. Dean said something recently about how wrong it was for Republicans to use anti-gay initiatives to bring out the vote. He was 1) right and 2) being honest and not spitting up what some focus poll told him to say. How are you ever going to expose homophobia or worse, homophobia-as-a-tool-for-getting-out-a-population-of-the-vote-that-you-don't-really-intend-to-appease...if you don't call it what it is?

Let's say we base our actions on your philosophy...then what GOOD is knowing what racism or sexism or homophobia IS if we don't intend to fight it in everything we do?? Is being quiet about it, for fear of offending those who carry it out with full knowledge that they're carrying it out, going to help us eliminate it? How silly. Better to call it what it is and still win those bit by bit who were supporting it without realizing what they were supporting.

[EST]

35. If our goal is to find some one the thuggies like,

someone they can't make book on, forever we will just be swinging in the breeze and dying that death of a thousand pricks, or whatever it is. The way to ultimately destroy the thuggie hold on us is to jump in and swim in the very issues they bring up to show how "bad" we are. We must assume that mantle like a suit of clothes and wear it proudly, STRUT, dammit! The issues of homosexuality, human rights, and freedom of choice will never go away, and believe you, me, the thugs do not want to win on them!

Just like trickie Dick Nixon used the promise of a speedy end to our commitment in Viet Nam to win two elections, and he had absolutely no intention of following through on those promises, until people were so outraged that he had to at least make a show of an attempt.

The ill-fated proposal for a national constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was never a serious proposal, but it served as a powerful tool in bringing the election near enough to a draw that it could be easily stolen.

Tho only option open to us, and a very workable one it is, assuming that we really do stand for liberty and freedom, is to get in all over and declare our stand, not try to find yet another luke-warm, mealy-mouthed bastard to lead a big portion of the ethical public in some way to avoid offending the tyrannical crap heads of the extreme right wing fundie stripe.

GO DEAN!! KICK ASS!!

[TankLV]

18. We AREN'T better off with Saddam in prison!

You honestly think we are? In what universe?

Tell that to the 1000's soldiers dead, the tens of thousands permanently maimed and injured, the 100's of thousands of INNOCENT dead Iraqi's - most of whom are women and children.

And don't forget the 1000's of newly minted fledgling terrorists that have been created because of this, not to mention the BILLIONS thrown down the rat hole.

For what, exactly, again?

[jsw_81]

22. I'm not saying that Dean was wrong

But politically it was a very stupid thing to say. It might play well in the liberal cities (e.g. Boston), but your average Susie Soccermom in the suburbs hears Dean and immediately thinks that he's unpatriotic, foolish, and weak on defense. And come 2008 she -- and all of her friends -- will pull the lever marked "R" faster than you can say President Frist.

[Kipepeo]

26. Maybe the only reason it was taken out of context

was thanks to the right wing media machine. Why do you keep repeating their manufactured "OMGoddisms!" like they have any merit?

Here's the thing, do any of those things you laid out about dean make you think less of him? If not, then why give credence to the idea that they might for others ?

[Clark2008]

3. Country back FROM us?

Huh?

I don't get what you mean.

[necso]

4. "Republicans Underestimate Howard Dean" -- Truly. /nt

[specimenfred1984]

5. Of Course They Do, They're Not "all there"

They aren't mentally capable of the truth.

Nice, isn't it.

[Meldread]

7. I don't think they underestimate him.

They may not believe he has the power to stand against them, but I am certain they view him as some type of threat. I think you are taking what they are saying at face value and not seeing their true intentions: they are attempting to undermine him.

It's a Republican Tactic. If you repeat something enough it becomes perceived as fact. They fear Dean for one simple reason and one reason only: He's a Maverick. The current establishment is willing to play the game and play "let's make a deal" selling values for votes. Mavericks don't play the game; they make up their own rules. It is what makes them good leaders, because they have the ability to think outside the box and fight for what they believe in -- no matter the costs.

I admire Dean for this very reason, but also because he has shown his dedication to the Democratic Party and it's core message. He's a good man with a good heart and a good head on his shoulders. It is why I support him. I don't feel he's going to sell me out for money or votes. He believes what he says, and says what he believes and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it.

[Al-CIAda]

8. A reporter asks about Dean's comments that Bush had foreknowledge

CNN – press conference
A reporter asks about Dean's comments that Bush had foreknowledge of 9-11, observe the strange reaction by Bush

windows media player
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/video/6/9_11laugh.mpg

 

[zmdem]

9. Yes they do

I'm a conservative Democrat and I like Gov. Dean. Frankly I'd prefer he doesn't become the DNC mucky-muck. I'd like to see him as the 2008 candidate. He combines populist zeal with pragmatism, as is evidenced by his record in VT.

[jsw_81]

10. Sorry, but I disagree

I hate to say it, but Howard Dean is all hype. We all saw how his vaunted political machine collapsed like a house of cards during the primaries (remember the "perfect storm" fiasco?), and I think our party is making a terrible mistake by putting him in charge.

We should all remember that it was only last year that Dean -- a stereotypical New England liberal who is an easy target for the GOP -- squandered $50 million and ended up losing every single primary and caucus with the exception of his tiny, rural home state, which he "won" only after quitting the race.

And you're deluding yourself if you think that the Republicans are afraid of this guy. If anything, they're probably thrilled at the prospect of a controversial Vermont liberal taking charge of our already weakened, demoralized party. With Dean as DNC chair, the red states will only get redder, and we will find our party in worse shape than ever before.

[Mojambo]

13. Your repeated use of liberal

to describe Dean leads me to suspect that you don't have an entirely accurate read on his politics. Dean is no liberal.

[jsw_81]

16. In Vermont he governed as a sensible moderate

But the moment he stepped onto the national stage he began pandering to the left in a way that made him unacceptable to the vast majority of the country's voters. This was a tragic blunder on Dean's part, a blunder that probably cost him the presidency.

[Mojambo]

19. Describe this pandering?

You're not classifying his anti-war stance as pandering are you?

[jsw_81]

25. Of course it was pandering

Dean and his advisers foolishly assumed that a moderate Vermont governor would have a tough time winning the nod, so they decided that their best shot would be to appeal to the disgruntled anti-war wing of the party that couldn't stomach pro-war hawks like Lieberman, Gephardt and to a lesser extent Kerry and Edwards who were, at the time, the only real contenders for the nomination.

When the money started pouring in -- thanks to the internet -- it seemed that Dean's strategy had literally paid off, but it soon became clear that the anti-war/youth wing of the party was not only small, but also quite lazy and ineffective when it came time to actually vote. And the rest is history.

[Mojambo]

27. Dean was anti-war long before he was the frontrunner

To insinuate that he adopted that position for political reasons is quite unfair.

It was his anti-war position that made him the frontrunner. Just because the cowardly pro-war democrats then torpedoed him with it in a sick tag team effort with republicans should not be held against Dean.

It's a moot point anyway. He'll be the chair. As a number of Kerry supporters used to tell me, "He's now the guy, you gotta get on board!"

[jsw_81]

30. As a loyal Democrat I will be on board

But when the train goes over the cliff don't say that I didn't warn you.

[Mojambo]

31. And the same to you

When we are sailing to election wins in 2006-08.

[Kipepeo]

32. As does his use of

"stereotypical New England liberal"

"weakened, demoralized party"

and other RW-salivation-inducing soundbites....

[Meldread]

14. I disagree and here is why...

Dean has shown us his strategy to winning. The current Democratic Party is having such a horrible time because they are neglecting the Red States. There is no opposition there, and believe me I know this... I live in a Red State.

Dean thinks about the long term, not about election cycles -- this is how the Republicans became so powerful. While Democrats would change on an issue over night if the polls said views were changing, Republican's said: "We're digging in, we've got an uphill battle but we're going to fight for our lives." When you see a Republican you typically know what your getting, anti-choice, anti-gay and anti-gun control. When you see a Democrat they could be the above, or the complete opposite, or anything in between. It all depends on where they come from.

We joke and call the Democratic Party the "big tent", but the fact of the matter is that ideology hurts the party as a whole. The majority of people don't pay attention to politics and normally stick to voting along party lines, with a few who are swayed one way or another by propaganda and various third party organizations that involve themselves in the election process.

His vision is that we start tackling local and state elections and work our way up. Support people who support our values. Go into Red States and fight in all the races. There should never be a Republican running un-challenged. When a Republican speaks up there should be a Democrat to form a rebuttal.

I believe, like Dean, that the message that the Democratic Party has is a better one. The vision that the Democratic Party has is a better vision. What we lack is away to get that vision from us to everyone else. Dean has strong core values which he isn't willing to sacrifice, and these values align with what the core of what the Democratic Party is. With those values he will be able to get out our message and I believe once people hear our message, they will embrace it. Dean speaks clearly and plainly. You know where he stands. This is important to have right now.

[jsw_81]

20. "Dean has shown us his strategy to winning."

How many states -- other than Vermont -- did Dean win during the primaries last year? Zero.

His message clearly fell flat in 2004, so why, exactly, should we trust him again in 2005? It makes no sense whatsoever.

[virtualobserver]

23. He showed us the strategy to win AGAINST REPUBLICANS

Dean had a hard uphill battle against the anointed insider candidate (Kerry) and he started with nothing and with no name id.

If the Repubs like him so much, why did the "club for growth" target only him during the primaries?

[Kipepeo]

12. Well, the leadership may

but a lot of the Republicans don't. :) He was one of the only Dems. my Republican dad liked (in addition to Clark).

[CindyDale]

17. No, they underestimate us

they're afraid of Dean. Seriously.

[yorgatron]

33. i DO NOT CARE if he IS a loose cannon

we NEED a loose cannon at this point in the game,because of how fucking cautious and mediocre and "let's-not-rock-the-boat" and "go-along to get-along" and PINK FUCKING TUTU WEARING the democrats have become!!! :mad::mad::mad:

[LiberalPersona]

34. They sure do

They think it would be good for them if he takes the helm of the party. My opinion is that it's good for us that they think that because we'll hit them so fast out of nowhere they won't be able to recover for a long time.

[ruggerson]

36. Exactly

n/t