are usa citizens to blame and complicit in the actions of their president?

[mirror]

is their a comparison to be drawn with germany and hitler?
is their a mentality in american society if you cant defeat them might as well join them?

[liberal N proud]

1. If the election were truly legitimate, then yes.

If the asshole in charge was truly elected then the electorate is responsible for choosing such a looser.

[mirror]

81. will they ever be again?

[mopaul]

2. unfortunately, yes

even though we here didn't vote for him, anyone who did, knowing what's going on in the world, IS complicit.

[leftynyc]

46. Unfortunately - terrorists aren't making that distinction. (eom)

[Siyahamba]

48. Those who voted for him and those who were able to vote but didn't bother.

Those who didn't bother voting didn't find him bad enough to vote against him.

[mhr]

3. I Did Not Vote For The Idiot - I Will Not Take Responsibility For The

Idiots that did.

[Skittles]

4. YES, ABSOLUTELY

there is some sort of psychosis occurring in America where people are simply failing to see what is freaking OBVIOUS. THIS HAPPENED TO THE GERMAN PEOPLE.

Try talking to a Bush voter. Ask them WHY they vote for Bush. Be prepared for utter astonishment and despair, and then fear to set in. IT BLOWS MY MIND WHEN I HEAR IT FOR MYSELF.

[zanana]

9. YES. We're all responsible.

The Republicans who voted these people in, and the Democrats who remain tight-lipped and "polite" to avoid any arguments. It's a very uncomfortable position to be in and the stress level is high, but if you realize that your country is descending into fascism, it is not only your right, but your DUTY to speak up, loud and often.

[Skittles]

10. DAMN STRAIGHT ZANANA

gawd it's a tough fight - the thing that gets to me most here in Texas is THESE PEOPLE JUST DON'T F***ING CARE. THEY TRULY THINK NOTHING IS WRONG. THEY DON'T GET. As long as they can drive their SUVs and buy junk at Wal-mart they think everything is A-OK. It is sad and pathetic.

[tnlefty]

38. Same situation here sadly. Facts don't matter to these folks.

Facts backed up with photos don't matter, the unPatriot Act is good and not a problem. Being lied into a disaster doesn't matter. Things are just lovely.

[mirror]

11. anyone over the age of 18 is responsible!!

i agree with 100%,

[Skittles]

15. hey mirror

come on now, where in England? And is mirror a reference to one of your daily papers?

[mirror]

17. yes your right skittles. from south

[Skittles]

18. I......................ER........................south what?

:D

[mirror]

20. i meant to say london.

if more americans shared yours views the world would be a better place.Its upto americans to change the direction of their nation only you can do it.

[Skittles]

22. well THANKS mirror and welcome to the DU

here is some Skittles trivia: my mum is a Brit (from Martham near Great Yarmouth); my dad was an US Air Force meteorologist. Growing up we went back and forth between England and America. I lived in many places in England - Peterborough, High Wycombe, Norfolk. Three of my brothers were born there and one, Mark, is English - he lives in Market Deeping and works in Picadilly Circus.

I am so old I still remember buying sweets with farthings! :D

[mirror]

25. interesting indeed i wont be asking your age

du is interesting did not expect to meet a brit here, ive only joined up few days ago.i only here talk but no action.

[Skittles]

27. there's quite a few Brits here!

yes INDEED

I am American though, born in the USA. Feel like a Brit when I'm in England though! :)

I am not bashful about my age - I'm 47 - when I was a teenager I was in LOVE with Gordon Banks. I'm really hoping you know who he is! :D

[mirror]

29. i know who he is best gk in the world.

[Skittles]

31. COOL

:thumbsup:

yes, I watched England win the World Cup on TV with my beloved English grandfather Dennis - he was at Dunkirk, he was - one of the last guys picked up by a fishing boat. :)

[Career Prole]

5. I feel that the media bear more responsibility than the people.

If they had done their job the way it was intended to be done when "freedom of the press" was first inked in, shrub would have been impeached if he had ever even gained the office.

[Skittles]

12. BUT

the people should not WANT to be fed propaganda. I mean, come on - talk radio and shit like FOX isn't even GOOD propaganda - they don't hide the fact that they're full of shit a lot of the time. And idiot Americans WATCH AND LISTEN because THEY LIKE WHAT THEY ARE HEARING.

[soleft]

6. 51 percent of them

[cthrumatrix]

8. only the red states.....

[bloom]

75. It does not make sense

to say everyone in the red states (are responsible) but not everyone in the country.

Democrats in the red states have no more control over the vote of everyone in their state than do Democrats control everyone in the entire country.


I suppose it makes you feel better though. :crazy:

It's nice to pretend we aren't responsible.

[ultraist]

85. No, not only in the red states. ONLY THE RED voters!

There are a LOT of REDneck voters in Blue states.

There are a lot of BLUE voters in Red States.

This is another reason why we shouldn't use the Bushie propagandistic Red State Blue State model.

[mopinko]

7. only the people whose votes actually counted

but, yes. that fact keeps me up nights.
i was wondering if people would get it if i made a buttons that said-
good germans?
never again!

[madrchsod]

13. yes we are

history will ask why we didn`t...

[mirror]

14. if 47 million people went

onto the streets for their country demanding change!! NO one is gonna tell me change wont happen.Why cant americans organize?? thats the blooody question!

[ThorsHammer]

62. Exactly, look at Ukraine

[mirror]

63. THANKYOU

ThorsHammer for agreeing with me.thats the only thing the understand.

[telamachus]

21. didn't what??

??

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. YES we are and may The Gods forgive us all

[LynnTheDem]

19. Were the German people complicit?

How many millions of Americans are too frightened, for a mulititude of reasons, to stand up and say bush is CORRUPT and a SOCIOPATH.

Stand quiet, and you are complicit.

[sweetheart]

23. Are you responsible for tony blair?

The people, especially the opposition, is certainly not responsible
to the level of the party behind the criminals. Our collective
responsibility is more a thing of defending our system of representative
democracy itself, its roots... and indeed we've had our eyes off the
ball collectively.

The mentality in american society is to pay the rent and feed your
family. Only the rich have the luxury to even think about politics,
the rest of the regular people are forced entirely upon their own
survival by the economic downward pressure of the bush class war
economic implosion.

Is someone in a manchester housing estate, responsible for the labour
party. How can she be? We owe our first allegiance to our own kin
and the survival of our loved ones... that is the "them" that we
join, and everything else is just window dressing.

The same mentality that supports the war in britain and appeases,
repeatedly without learning from history, "peace in our time"... that
mentality has similarly not learned from history in america, as there
has been no war on american soil, and nobody learned.

I expect by 2015 or so, amerika will have its own taste of nuclear
war, as in all honestly i expect the bushnazi's to exacerbate one
by then. If world war 1 was the downfall of the british empire,
the next one will be the downfall of the american one.

[mirror]

28. we have paper ballots over here

blair is not going to win!! hes got no bloody chance the media over here is not corrupt,only 3 months togo for elections over here wait and see.dont know if you this there was a story over here about karl rove helping the opposition over here.

[sweetheart]

34. not for long according to the guardian... diabold and ES&S comin' your way

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/comment/story/0,12449,1403545,00.html

[mirror]

37. thankyou for pointing this out

im sure with Michael Meacher Labour MP on the case it wont happen.even more reason why blair must go!

[Nihil]

101. It's already happened

There were several constituencies in the last election (Euro + local)
that were electronic. I posted the following in a forum not long after
that election:

Sequoia Voting Systems (the second largest US voting machine company)
is owned by De La Rue.

De La Rue also own ~20% of the (GB) National Lottery and is one of
the world's largest "commercial security printers" involved in the
production of over 150 national currencies (from their own blurb) as
well as a wide range of security documents such as travellers cheques,
ID cards, passports and driver's licences (including New York state).
Talk about knowing your customer ...

They provide cash handling machines (ATMs, counters) and banking
software to financial institutions as well as retailers.

They also provided the voting machines (touch screen, no audit trail)
for the pilot run during the most recent local elections ...

Nihil

[Maiden England]

40. so hows that Tory oppostion working out for you then?

I hate to say it, but you need to take a long hard look at the alternative to Blair. The main opposition is Conservative, and pro-war. The LibDems, would have to pull of an enormous swing to take power, and it ain't gonna happen. To go from third party to overturn the Labour Majority, ain't going to happen.
Blair will probably get re-elected, albeit with a very bloody nose.

Having said that, kinda glad I'm a Brit Citizen, glad I don't have the Chimp on my conscience. Heck I don't even have Blair on my conscience, I voted Lib Dem, unfortunately it was against a Labour Minister, so my vote counted for zilch. LOL.

Sad thing is though, it really gives me pause about taking US citizenship. I still haven't applied for it, and I've been able to since September. Its just a really tough decision to become responsible for the crap going on in the world today, versus the desire to never have to deal with the INS ever again.

[mirror]

42. very bloody nose hmmm,that might do him some good!

if that does happen he may decide to step down.

[telamachus]

24. If you feel responsible

then what will you do about it? How will you atone? Will you turn yourself in at the Hague?

Are there actually people who compare Hitler and Bush??? Give me a break!

[hector459]

26. Yes, those who support him.

And those who did not work against him.

[leftofthedial]

30. anyone who voted for or openly advocates for the little bushturd

is a fascist murdering war criminal in my book

I will treat them accordingly and so should the rest of the world

[mirror]

32. americans are allowing all this to happen

what will the world look like in 4 YEARS? time how many more DEAD will there be? its not as if americans arnt gonna suffer,by allowing this to continue.

[ultraist]

87. I agree! We need to take action or we are responsible for allowing it

For those who don't PROTEST, email Congress Reps, volunteer for their local Dem party or do SOMETHING to try to stop this madness, are complicit.

MARCH 19 ANTI WAR PROTESTS AROUND THE GLOBE

[EST]

33. I worked against the little dork.

I voted against him, I managed to convince a few others-former ignorant self styled conservatives-to vote against him. Am I responsible at the level of self, family,community,state, nation, and world? Yes. Am I complicit, blameworthy? NO!

[Rapcw]

35. Yes I say it is societies fault for enabling these thugs n/t

[Stephanie]

36. Do you think we have joined him? Have you looked at this site?

I find your questions offensive.

[mirror]

41. you find my questions offensive.

just look at whos in the whitehouse,thats what you should find offensive not my questions.

[Stephanie]

43. Just look at THIS WEBSITE and READ OUR POSTS

your questions are deliberately ignorant

[mirror]

44. read my posts and you

will understand.

[Stephanie]

45. I did read your posts

They are patronizing and uninformed.

[mirror]

47. your just being defensive

thats understandable,im not attacking you as an individual! im not even attacking.all that is required is 50 million americans to take peacefull action on the streets of america,how can they ignore that,they wont be able to even your corrupt media cant ignore that!i know there must be millions of people with similar views on this forum so why is nothing going on.take to the streets thats your only choice surely everyone on this forum must agree with that?

[Stephanie]

49. .

Republican convention 2004

[mirror]

51. thankyou for pointing that out to me

but are you saying we have to wait till the next Republican convention to see that again?how many millions of people were there at the 2004 Republican convention? 1,2,3,4,5.. million?

[Wind Dancer]

53. Unfortunately, many people in this country are trying to survive.

There are many single mothers working 2 jobs without health insurance struggling to put food on the table. They are not in a position to attend protests or march in the streets.

The current atmosphere in this country is frightening. The elderly are being ignored, few care about social programs to assist those in need. This atmosphere has been created on purpose by our current leadership.

After watching Jon Stewart last night, it was appalling to hear a young female executive dismiss the need for Social Security. She had no respect or concern for the older folks affected by privatization. Disgusting.

Many of us are desperately trying to change things. I think you are attacking those of us who are working for change.

You might want to post on FreeRepublic. If you read their posts, you will see what we are up against. Propaganda is powerful, don't blame those of us who have been fighting this battle since the early 60's.

BTW, what are you doing in your country?

[mirror]

56. what plans do you think they have for the dollar?

why are they allowing it to fall? nations are dumping the dollar!!! the future can only get worse compare to now.there may come a time in the future when citizens must put there country first and everythingelse comes second.

[Wind Dancer]

58. Excuse me?

What do you expect them to do? WTF are you doing?

[mirror]

52. also, despite the mind blowing actions of this administration

how many major demonstrations have there been?how many people were involved in these demonstrations? what is it going to take to get millions on the street?

[Stephanie]

57. Do your own research.

You obviously know nothing about what's gone on here but I am not interested in educating you.

[Wind Dancer]

59. Agreed, Stephanie.

Enough already!

[mirror]

60. yes put your handsup and walk away!!!

i know whats going in usa more than you do and that is sad!

[sweetheart]

65. "the mirror" is an english tabloid newspaper, like the new york post

Our english friend is venting his anti-american frustration, much as how
it is vented in the foreign press. The lesson to observe about this, is
that bush has indeed put us on the frontline. The people who are angry
with america will bomb us, not bush. New York will go up in a fireball,
not crawford. The red state cowards talk shit and then the blue states
(purple i know!) take the heat, pay the bills and clean up the mess.

But mirror is indeed very accurate to the editorial POV in the british
media. There is a snide superiority in the paper, that does not realize
that the american political system is as inclusive as the soviet union,
but certainly nothing like the kind of healthy democracy present in many
western european nations, from which those folks draw their benchmark.

As well, mirror does not realize the american right win is against
freedom of speech, and that many of the people here who speak out are
on FBI lists for disagreeing, as potential terrorists in the making,
as these criminal nazi GOP filth, see their political opposition as the
real enemy in the war on terror. Thus mirror shows up here thinking
he's talking to the loathed animal he's been trained to find transparent
by the british media, and he's speaking on the only serious free speech
site that would not ban him overnight for disagreeing and being truly
unsympathetic and harsh.

Mirror does not realize that there is no news media in america, only
etertainment, and that the average american citizen has no clue as
to the evil crimes of teh bush junta. He also does not realize that
without any social welfare, or education subsidies that britain has,
that the "masses" who should rise up, are enslaved trying to feed
their families, and will lose their jobs if they rise up, their homes
and their savings. As well, he does not realize how large the US
is, and that to organize mass protests would take major media assistance,
and that the media are all collaborating with the junta, as they too
want to stay in business feeding their families and shareholders.

So mirror, if indeed you know more what's going oin in the USA than
the folks here, i suggest you show some compassion for your only
friends across the pond. The republicans won't even talk to you,
they think you're a lower class foreigner, terrorist. So a wise
reflection of people under the screw might be a little love, mate.

Tough love, is not daily beratings on how a minority spread out
across a continent, is supposed to overthrow a very evil and
entrenched enterprise that is only, as we speak, tightening its
grasp on power for more murder, torture, war and destruction of
civil rights.

[Nihil]

102. Good points Sweetheart ...

... and ones that I need to remember at times too. Thanks.

[ultraist]

89. You know more what's going on in our country than we do?

Doubt it.

What are YOU doing in your country to stop YOUR soldiers from slaughtering Iraqis?

I believe your guy Blair is pretty chummy with Bush, isn't he? WHAT did you do to stop Blair from supporting BUSH?

[mirror]

64. LOOK AT UKRAINE!!!!

dont tell me they are better of than you,they are poor! only difference is they value freedom more than you!!! how many days in the freezing cold did they stand there? you dont have a clue what freedom is about.

[sweetheart]

66. Shame on you

You haven't a clue how the bush nazi's maintain their grip on power,
and the intensely complex dynamic of how america is ruled as a fascist
plutocracy. America is not as yet a poor country, and that is the
problem to a certain degree. People can afford to not care, to watch
one of hundreds of television stations of movies and television shows,
completely detatched from political reality.

The republicans think they learned a lesson from viet nam, and that was
to completely repress the freedom of the press during a criminal conflict,
so that the war does not make it in to poeple's living rooms except
under tight censorship, much as hitler's regime did.

So your voice, in this thread sounds shrill, a noisy clamour not
listening and reflecting like a mirror, but rather like someone out to
prove a point, beat up someone in the name of english holliganism.
And geez, mate, talk about reinforcing stereotypes.

Perhaps you should go live in the us yourself, work a minimum wage job
or two to pay your rent, and then share your great wisdom. Next time
you can create a pan-european demonstration (which is very similar to
what you're suggesting with ukraine), let me know... as it seems
demonstrations tend to be local.

I'm upset with you myself, as being patient and explaining is not
working, rather you're just dumping... and like others on this thread,
even very verbal sweetheart tires of this game.

[mirror]

67. ok

sweetheart,i live in england but the only media i listen to is AAR ilove randy and mike malloy ive been listening for 5 or 6 months,some of what mike come out with is scary stuff!!! one of the few points im trying to make is what america does effects the whole world! large parts of world are suffering because of america.just 1 question for you do you agree with mikes views?

[sweetheart]

70. mirror

I live in far north scotland, near thurso & Orkney. I don't listen
to the radio much, but prefer radio 4, world service, as i find randi
rhodes to be just repeating what we have already written on DU.

The right wing media started a systematic pogrom against my religious
group in 1996, and i decided to leave the USA, but they're not rid of
my ghost here on DU. When i was a kid in california, we had a game
called ghost, where 6 red handballs (size of a british football) were
given to 2 teams of kids in a basketball court divided across the
middle by a line. If you stepped outside the line, you "died" or were
hit by a ball as well "died"... and as kids "died" they went to the
perimeter of the basketball court around the other team's side, to
continue to throw the balls, without the risk of dying again... hence
the name of the game "ghost". Similarly, writing from exile its easier
to be honest without fear or reprisals, or being shaken down by the
police state. "ghost".

I've lived all over the USA, my family all lives there, and i know very
intimately the way the culture works, that i write on DU that it is
inspiring to attempt telling the truth in a culture of lies. Malloy
and Randi are ideologues, like the writers here, and to be frank, the
DU blog is ground 0 for the liberal media pulse, as even randi repeats
what already has made this blog... so i see, if one is to contribute
at all, offering your best prose to the spirit's here is one of the
most important places to write... a good place where someone like
yourself should maybe speak just a bit more humbly... no crime in
being polite. :-)

Welcome to DU. I hope you take the time to get over to the UK forum
and vent about the british election, prince harry and all things
silly. :-)

[iverglas]

79. the crux of the question

"People can afford to not care, to watch one of hundreds of television stations of movies and television shows, completely detatched from political reality."

That is, the crux of the personal responsibility part of it (as compared to the share of collective responsibility aspect).

Those people, by voting for Bush (or not voting), did something that affected someone other than themselves. There simply is a line that has to be drawn in that case.

A far higher proportion of child abusers were abused as children than were not abused as children. A far higher proportion of abused children than of non-abused children grow up to be abusers.

We know that being abused "makes" people abusive. But we do not simply exonerate someone who abuses children on the ground that s/he was abused and is therefore not responsible for his/her acts.

Not everyone in the US who is broke, overworked and underhoused/fed voted for Bush (or didn't vote). What is the basis for exonerating those who did of responsibility for the harm to other people that results from their actions/inaction?

I don't claim to have answers to these questions, by any means. Assessing personal responsibility is a task I am happy not to have to perform.

I have been watching Fox News for the last month (free digital preview on Canadian cable, available for the first time), and I'm more appalled than I expected to be. We've watched CNN for years, and seen how little information and how much spin there is there. And we'd read all about Fox; so we knew what to expect -- or so we thought. But we've watched Bill O'Reilly with our jaws on the floor. So yes, you have a point, that it really does take seeing to believe it.

But there are people watching that drek because they choose to. There are people at DU, other people who vote Democrat, people who protest the war, with the same disadvantages, and who don't choose to watch and swallow.

I am not happy convicting anyone in the court of my personal opinion when I have not lived their life; but I'm also not entirely ready to acquit everyone who hurts other people simply because they have not been spoonfed the alternative.

Negligence can be culpable too.

[sweetheart]

82. its exhasperating

My whole life has been on the other side of the coin from these bush
nazi's and their wars. They have been an evil and foul influence since
world war 2, if we want to follow their roots back far enough, and only
now, with living memory fading, have they had the social negligence to
come to power... collective ignorance, that very thing that no democracy
can survive... and one hasn't survived it.

Faux TV is an example, where ignorance is turned in to entertainment
and broadcast as news. It begs the question of what is conscionable,
for liberal folks, and whether when it comes down to brass tacks, whether
people have the strenght of will to make the scrafices it will take
to depose this filthy hoarde.

[bvar22]

93. They had a LEADER in the Ukraine.

A man who stood at the forefront and said, "You supported me, and I WILL NOT ABANDON YOU!!!!

In the USA we had someone who said that, but.....{vapor}

[ultraist]

88. Millions of Brits should take to the streets too!

I believe YOUR soldiers are mass murdering Iraqis too.

[rinsd]

55. [sniff] stinks like flame bait to me...

Yeah, show up to a liberal almost unaminously anit-war site and play the collective guilt game.

Interested in debate and sicussion, my Aunt fanny.

[tom_paine]

39. Yes and not yet, but maybe soon

If and when that day comes, we are screwed.

There comes a moment when the vctiom ceases struggling.

In an individual murder situation, the victim then dies.

In societies, the old society dies but for that actual individual victims, the Real Fun is about to begin.

</gallows humor off>

[CityZen-X]

50. Bu$h*t & Hitler (Ominous Parallels)

when you read this just replace the word Jews with Muslims. And you will discover the United Sicko's of Amerika.

Hitlers Beliefs
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/hitlerbeliefs.htm

[maxsolomon]

54. OBL specifically said we were

we have sided with the butcher.

don't you know? 9-11 changed everything back to the way god meant it to be.

[markomalley]

61. Yes, unless

Unless you devoted all of your energies and resources toward defeating him, then you are personally responsible. If you did literally everything you could have done to prevent him being inaugurated then you would be blameless, personally.

As far as Godwin's Law is concerned, the German people had plenty of chances to assassinate Hitler or arrest him or collaborate with the liberating forces. (no I am NOT advocating anything...so get off it)

That was the judgement of the Allies once Germany was defeated. If Amerikkka is defeated, will the victors be as merciful to us?

[Tyler Durden]

68. EVERYONE who lives here is complicit and to blame.

That includes:

Natural Born Citizens
Legal/Illegal Aliens
Temporary Residents
Bush Supporters
Kerry Supporters
USCPA (Communist Party) Members
Even Foreign Tourists

ANYONE WHO PAID ONE SINGLE PENNY OF TAX IS MORALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THIS GOVERNMENT. I would even include ANYONE who purchases a product made in or that profits in this country, if you want to be picky.

We are ALL members of the "Buy a Bullet for Bush" Campaign of World Wide Agression and Homespun Theft. If you support it with TAX, no matter WHAT you say, you're complicit.

YES, that includes me. That's one of the biggest reasons that I'm leaving.

Silence implies approval, and if you paid your taxes and aren't on your way to jail, then you're part of the problem.

Period.

[mirror]

69. interesting view so say the least.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

71. 50.7% of them are to blame! 49.3% are NOT to blame!

[mirror]

72. i think we can all agree

that they will win again in 2008 100%!! they do after all own the voting machines. THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!!!!!!!!!!

[TWiley]

73. I blame the Christian population for not standing up to the bushtapo.

Their whole platform is based on religious morality, and the only reason it stands is because religious folks support his fascist efforts.

A powerful, organized, and authentic religious voice would be the most effective weapon against these charlatans.

Unfortunately, they all appear to support bush.

[foreigncorrespondent]

74. Absolutely not!

Well, not all of you are to blame. And certainly not all of you are complicit either.

The only people who should be blamed are the people who voted for the jerk, the judges who placed him in the job in the first place, and those others who helped him steal both presidential elections, and the silent democrats who should be standing up and screaming at the top of their lungs about everything.

I would never dream of blaming Sapphocrat for the stuff Bush* has done. And I certainly would never imagine blaming any of the good people of DU for the same. You guys have done all you could to get that sick bastard out, but unless the officials in your party begin listening to you, then even you guys don't have a leg to stand on!

[amazona]

76. no you can't blame people for what is out of their control

The people voted for Gore. Caligula took office anyway.

15 million people protested against war before the invasion of Iraq. He invaded anyway.

Young people, especially African Americans, stood in long lines to cast votes for Kerry all across the country. In New Orleans, students at Xavier waited 9 hours to cast a vote -- in a "red" state! Think of the faith it took to make such a statement, knowing it would be largely ignored by the media and the powers that be. At least those who waited so many hours in Ohio had a hope of their vote making a difference. So many good Americans working so hard...and yet * took office anyway.

You know, really, decent Americans are doing everything we legally can to protest this war and the looting of our economy.

Now the Americans who are for sale -- for example, the churches who sold out their moral stance on war for a piece of the "faith-based" government pie -- yes, those Americans are whores and should be held responsible. But they are far from the majority.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[ArkDem]

77. is there any their there?

[ernstbass]

78. Those who voted for him are complicit

[mirror]

83. them more than any for starters!

[bvar22]

80. I BLAME the bush* cabal,

their very effective Ministry of Propagand including the Christian Wrong, and their Coporate Co-Conspirators.

All American Citizens, especially those on the Left who have found access to the TRUTH bear collective responsibility for the ongoing descent into Fascism. Jefferson said it was our duty to overthrow the goverment when it becomes unrepresenative....Hence the 2nd ammendment.

No one on this board has done EVERYTHING they could to stop the bush* cabal. In fact, time spent here comiserating and preaching to the choir could be more prodictive at other venues, "but I can't go because I gotta work tomorrow."

My Catholic roots are emerging. It is NOT the OVERT sins that are the problems, it is the SINS of OMISSION that slam me.
I did much, but did I do EVERYTHING?

Paying taxes that feed the War Engine is giving tacit approval.

[poe]

84. A question to American taxpayers

I pose this question to American taxpayers; why do you allow your taxpayer money to be used to cause death and distruction to millions of people around the world? Yet you do not say a thing when your government refuses to spend any taxpayers money to relieve the disastrous destruction of a natural disaster such as the Tsunami or the 100,000 dying in the Sudan of starvation and millions in other parts of the world?
To use and overuse colloquialism. What is wrong with this picture?

[Geek_Girl]

91. Because Most Americans

are nit wits and those that do speak out are pretty much ignored or labeled loony lefties.

[ultraist]

92. Why do you accuse us of not saying anything?

That's a big assumption that none of us DO anything.

What do you suggest we do?

[bvar22]

95. Some of us ARE organizing to present an opposition...

...that the Democratic Party so far has failed to provide.

If you want to DO SOMETHING, stop sending money to the DNC, and join us here:

http://www.pdamerica.org/

Please continue to march in the streets. Our survival may depend on sending a message to the World that THERE IS an opposition to the bush* insanity.

[poe]

96. I see nowhere in my post

where it is written "none" do anything. However the evidence shows that too few are taking the necessary radical measures to halt this extremist and world threatening junta. how much worse does it have to get? I'm also not interested in what people are saying it's what their actions are. keyboard activism goes nowhere, party politics is an energy sink and signing petitions is an exercise in casuistry.
what i suggest you do is stop giving your money the the world's worst polluter and machine of genocide- The Pentagon. www.warresisters.org
And i also suggest you start local currency-www.ithacahours.com
And i also suggest you start/get involved in community garden projects.
And i also suggest you get in the way of the odious, life destroying machine. it's later than we think. Maybe you are already directly involved. you and your friends are the answer-community solutions and direct action.
The Christian pastor Martin Niemoller is credited with saying, "In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
<snip>Friends, we are entering waters in which we may all drown, filled with nothing but anger and fanaticism. We had better take a long, hard look before we enter this raging stream because our country never be the same again. For those who advocate this sea change in American polity and social life do not want to talk; they want to impose. They do not want debates; they want obedience. And most importantly, they do not want us to pay attention to their desire for a de facto (and for many a de jure) Christian theocratic state.

I believe there is no longer any room for apathy or laziness. The voices of hatred, masquerading as "Christians" or "liberators," are beginning to echo eerily the pre WWII days in Germany when the bigoted darkness within "decent" people was stirred by racism, intolerance and vindictiveness, stamping out dissent and opposing viewpoints.

We no longer have the option of turning our eyes away for everywhere we go the same familiar faces and voices greet us. Hate radio spews the worst kind of aggressive boorishness, inane TV talk shows belie the deep distress Americans feel about their broken political processes, and a complacent media is ignoring the underlying tensions contained therein that threaten to explode in single-minded fury.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb05/Tirado0202.htm

[ultraist]

97. My mistake, sorry

Why isn't Moosewood on the list of businesses that accept Ithaca currency? My husband is from Ithaca.

[rucky]

86. It's about time we clear the air about this.

mea culpa is in our future. big time.

[Geek_Girl]

90. Yes!

Our Tax dollars fund this war and this presidents policies. But Americans have lost their mind I'm afraid and I don't think things are going to get better for a long time. I guess we are just going to have to go over the cliff on this GOP bus because Americans will not wake up!

Europe and the rest of the world will just have to mitigate the rippling effects of our own self destruction. It's every man for himself these days.

[Democrat Dragon]

94. No, blame it on the Coporate Media Whores.

[anarchy1999]

98. Absolutely yes! Forever and for always. Senator Byrd carries "our"

Constitution in his pocket every day. Stand up or be lost. We are not "joining".

Mirror, welcome to DU. I reserve my welcome to you.

[mirror]

100. THANKYOU VERY MUCH.

anarchy1999,more people with your views.

[bixente]

99. It shouldn't of been close

Yes, unfortunately. Even if there was fraud, it should never of been that close.