Question about neocons

[independentchristian]

Why do "you" dislike them?

I know that everyone has their reasons, but why do "you" dislike them?

[aden_nak]

1. They have a psychotic vision for the future.

Essentially, the general thrust of the NeoCon movement is that if the United States uses its military to intimidate and conquer oil-producing nations, it can control the global economy through sheer force of will. Even if you ignore the fact that the COST of this effort outweighs the reward, that it disrupts and destroys the lives of thousands (and eventually millions) of people. . . it doesn't work. Historicly, their vision for the future of America is the final stage of any great nation. It literally is the death rattle.

They are educated to the point of ignorance, and unwilling to consider that they may be wrong, no matter how many pieces of their ideal turn to dust and ash. Yet they are still powerful enough to manipulate the system and carry on with their particular flavor of insanity. For that, I loathe them.

[tk2kewl]

2. I hate that they think they are always right

and that therefore they:

1. do not need to consult history
   
2. do not need to consider the future
   
3. do not need to compromise
   
4. can use any means to accomplish their end including:
   
   • lying
     
   • exploiting and stirring religious fundamentalism
     
   • exploiting and stirring nationalism
     
   • killing
     
   • looting the treasury to pay off their supporters
     
   
   
   Remeber... they don't have a problem with any of the things listed above. They believe they are completely justified. That is the scariest thing about them to me.

[shraby]

5. Read the PNAC document

thats Project for a New American Century. Google it, find it and read it. Check who the signers are.

[tk2kewl]

7. I've seen it

[Old Mouse]

3. The lack of research

They only use data that confirms a pre-existing conclusion.

[tk2kewl]

8. That's only if there is *any* supporting data

If there isn't any they just make it up

[JHB]

14. Yes. Despite so many of them being "scholars" at "think" tanks...

...their approach to information is that of a lawyer/advocate/dogmatist rather than that of a scholar/scientist/seeker of knowledge.

[Liberal In Texas]

4. Good heavens, where do you start?

Just a few:
1) They like to start wars with countries that didn't attack us.
2) They're ruining the economy. Have you checked out the national debt lately?
3) They're turning the country into a fascist state by combining corporate and government interests.
4) They're promoting a combining of religion and government.
5) Where's Osama?
...there's more, but I'll let others chime in as well...

[Cocoa]

6. their bloodthirstiness

their icy soulless drive for violence and death.

[MsAnthropy]

10. Especially since most of them never served in the military themselves

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tk2kewl]

16. Tolerance has nothing to do with it.

You tolerate people and groups of people so long as ...

they tolerate others
don't harm others
don't try to force their opinions, lifestyles and ways on others

There is absolutely nothing progressive about tolerating neocon ideologies

On edit: BTW . . . Welcome to DU :toast:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King Coal]

19. If you have a loved one killed or maimed, you may change your mind,

[tk2kewl]

24. I hear ya. But . . .

I really do think that intolerance of bullies, theifs and liars is quite a bit different from intolerance of atheists, gays and the poor.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Shakespeare]

31. Clarify for me, please...

WHO is it you think "hates religious people, non-minorities, and the affluent"??

I'd like a little more specificity, please.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. I won't "tolerate" Bush & the neocons...

anymore than I would "tolerate" any other enemy of my country, foreign or domestic. Because, at the end of the day, that is what they are -- domestic enemies.

And I make no apologies for my "intolerance".

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

33. and you are doing the same thing, in this very post

I'm beginning to wonder why you really came here

:eyes:

[CindyDale]

21. It's not personal dislike

When a bunch of destructive looneys take over your country and no one can get them out of power, it's normal to boil over with frustration. Anyone who isn't boiling over is in denial.

[Cocoa]

11. you're getting some good answers

now share with us your own thoughts about the neocons.

[DelawareValleyDem]

12. Stick around this forum awhile

The reasons will become obvious.

[LunaC]

13. They are greedy and militaristic

They will rape, pillage and plunder to line their pockets which is their main motivation.

[EC]

15. I really don't care for anyone that wants to

RULE THE WORLD........

[King Coal]

18. I don't particularly care for rabid fascism.

[KaliTracy]

20. I dislike what they represent -- and the migration to fascism/corporatism

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.
5. Rampant sexism.
6. A controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.
9. Power of corporations protected.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.

"Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not."
--Laurence W. Britt

see definitions and article here http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm


Not clickable-- see actual page here: http://www.mvp-seattle.org/pages/pageFascism.htm



edited for font and pixsize

[jdots]

22. having worked for "the chosen few " this could take pages

People my age are normally becoming conservative old farts,but the crews that i worked with for these royal turds have come away with some insight about how these people got so out of control and stay out of jail.
It boils down to this,the services I provided were once done for middle class people and normal working stiffs like you and me.Over the last 20 years that changed from plugging in your sterio to me spending six months creating a home theater in a guys executive bathroom.I hate these neocons because I watched how they made thier piles of money and it was thru greed and fear. It would take pages to explain the mindless waste taking place that has torn the fabric of this good experiment in democracy called America.Through it all i watched the good caring people get hurt and the crap rise to the top.
The only way to stop this trend is for us to tell these people to do it themselves,but unfortunately they have created a world where there is another poor chump who will work for them.

[proud patriot]

23. Because They Don't love the U.S. Constitution

Because they think Liars are great Americans

Because They Do Not Value Life

Because They are Shortsighted problem solvers
and their Solving creates more and worse problems .

[RandomKoolzip]

25. I oppose them (not hate) because they are bent on delivering

fascism to our country in the guise of "freedom," "democracy," and "liberty." They use code words like these to cloak their Trojan Horse. And when they plan on bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to other countries ("or else"), they are taking a page out of Hitler/Napoleon's playbook.

Have you read the PNAC Mission Statement?

Plus, they have taken the teachings of a decent, if emotionally austere, philosopher (Leo Strauss), and perverted them to fit their means.

[AG78]

26. Personally, I thank them

Before 9/11, I didn't follow politics, other than for no good reason actually watching the 2000 election.

When I read of this group of people in the late winter/early spring of 2002, and PNAC specifically, it led me down a path of learning.

They've opened my eyes to how fragile "democracy"(whatever it is, if it's ever really existed) can be.

They've opened my eyes to the true history of the US, and the planet as a whole.

They led me to people like Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, Thom Hartmann, etc, etc, etc.

They've showed me how nihilistic our species really is. How centers of power expand. How propaganda is an extremely effective tool.

They've showed me that they are just another in the long line of groups of people that thought they could conquer the world.

They've helped me understand that humanity is really just a train wreck, and we make it up as we go along. How words like freedom, democracy, and voting can be used to deceive people.

How corporate rule is taking over the planet, and will find a playground in Iraq when their constitution is supposedly written by Iraqi's.

They've showed me how even in America, after all that some people in this country have fought and died for over the years, especially in the last century or so, it can be taken away. We'll still have the "freedom" to buy cheap crap, but only two political parties worth a damn. We can buy any car, any color car, but corporations own the people we "vote" for.

[Old Mouse]

30. A well put statement

Thanks.

[suegeo]

29. They take advantage of the good nature of the sheep.

They state that they do not believe that people are capable of being good, so the neo-cons are obligated to lie and trick and use religion to control the evil masses.

Yet it is the very trusting nature of most of the sheep that lets them get away with being the murderous assholes that they themselves are.

Plus, they are complicit in the 9.11 attacks and got away with it.

[sweetheart]

34. usurping power to undermine the constitution

These connies are just tiresome with their "myths" and by them the
straussian need to destroy all empirical evidence with claptrap. The
damage done by this attempt to create a polarizing culture, alienates
and destroys the very society strauss suggested it might save.

As they've completely destroyed public debate in the nation, they are
truly guilty, in my book of high crimes against the constitution and
the american people, and i would like to see every single last one of
them tried for treason and hanged on the white house mall, to see how
we deal with criminals who usurp our democracy.

[ComerPerro]

35. They are actively trying to bring about the end times

Worse yet, they are trying to dismantle society and bring us towards dominionism or feudalism.

They are stealing from this country.

They are trying to completely destroy public education. Only the rich will be educated if they have their way.