STATE OF THE UNION AND DEM RESPONSE -- THREAD #6

[Skinner]

Just in case you need another thread...

[Solly Mack]

1. Thanks!

:)

[beam me up scottie]

3. tv is dead now, watching c-span on the net, any

better sites? So far this is one long republican orgasm

[Solly Mack]

8. I use CSPAN too

[Joyce78]

128. Have been watching CSpan also ... yawn, tired and dragging myself to bed.

[paineinthearse]

12. CSPAN = democrat response; CSPAN2 = interviews w/ congresspeople

[beam me up scottie]

18. got it, thanks

like lidocaine for my soul

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. Gotta give the speechwriters their props......

They turned lies, deception and the murder of innocents into...."The world is free, and Amerika did it!" A+ for creativity and balls.... F- for TRUTH!!! God D*mnit!!!! I have to PUNCH something!!! AAAGGGHHHHR!!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

4. this freedom for the world thing is really scary.

any chance certain "conservatives" will get a shiver down his/her spine by some of this nonsense and wake up?

[ultraist]

9. Any conservatives? No. "Onward Christian Soldiers...marching off to war.."

Maybe some moderates

[beam me up scottie]

10. they all stood up and cheered this asshole on,

they will back the party regardless of the consequences.

[mzmolly]

16. You kidding. More like a "twinkle in the eye"

Dumb asses!

[Rhiannon12866]

90. So far they sure haven't said or done much

Except for Pat Buchanan, but he's not in a position to do anything and he still voted for the guy.*sigh*:-(

[Joyce78]

131. Nope.

[ultraist]

5. Wolf said their guy is monitoring the blogs

WILL THEY TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID?

[shadowknows69]

161. Hi Wolf!!!

Used to have respect for you and your channel. The nice comedic commercials you all did dissolved what little integrity as Journalists you still had. Keep your day job.

[paineinthearse]

6. thanks, is the site OK?????

I see blue X's over the message type icons.

[Endangered Specie]

19. Thats part of the "level 3" features turn off.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=1

[bagimin]

27. heavy volume causation

[ryban]

7. My question on Bush's plan to privatize Social Security

PRESIDENT BUSH SAYS: "Right now, a set portion of the money you earn is taken out of your paycheck to pay for the Social Security benefits of today’s retirees. If you are a younger worker, I believe you should be able to set aside part of that money in your own retirement account, so you can build a nest egg for your own future."

QUESTION: If the younger worker is allowed to take his/her money out of the mix and people over 55 don't have to worry about losing benefits under the Bush privatization plan, how is the government going to make the math work? Who is going to make up the difference when the younger workers' money is taken out of the mix? The president seems to have skipped over this part.

Does anyone know the answer?

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

35. Nope, not even * n/t

[0007]

50. Ask your elected officials in Notlog Ma

[MichiganVote]

62. All this in an economy that offers young workers a $5 an hour job

can't you see the charity ad's now.'You too can support an American on just 63 cents a day....'

[Joyce78]

133. Yep

Sadly, you are probably correctly predicting.

[Festivito]

89. Yes, it would hasten IOU payback start and duration, leaving...

...leaving us fewer years to reduce the deficits into surplusses sufficient to pay the IOUs. About 25% less SS money will arrive when we'll be able, at the worst moment with no change, to pay 75% of need. This means that instead of SS taking in 75% of need at that point, SS will be taking in 55% -- the government having to make up the then larger difference.

Where is that money going to come from? Opps, gee, we can't do it, so the RepubliCONs will say, reduce the benefits and phase it out. They'll be rid of SS, just as they've wanted since FDR.

[chomskysright]

98. HERE'S THE FUCKING ANSWER......

Dear Senator :

I am faxing all the US Senators this information. We do NOT want our Social Security privatized or ‘personalized’: that means we do NOT want Bush’s bad plan ‘phased in’; we do not want it at all.

This is what could be done that makes sense:

We should strengthen Social Security with commonsense approaches----like requiring Congress to PAY BACK money it has borrowed from Social Security or rolling back the more egregious tax breaks for the very wealthy.
We did NOT want Gonzales as AG but you seemed to have just ignored all the good reasons for this. As concerned citizens we are frankly becoming more and more concerned about your ability to tackle anything that is significant and affects our lives, our children’s lives, and their children’s lives.
We understand Bush’s rationale behind his rather desperate attempt to steal our Social Security money: “…rather than saving Social Security’s surplus, the government has been spending it---on the military, education, tax cuts. In only 15 years, the government will have to start repaying its debt to Social Security.” (Lowenstein, Roger: New York Times Magazine: January 16, 2005, p. 43) Bush wants access to the Social Security money in order to bring more war and in order to hide it within the paperwork associated with the debt that his administration has created. Its not because he is concerned about its future: his narcissism has never for one moment considered that there are other people on this planet. His plan is to pad the purses of the wealthy w/ our $$
We understand the math related to Bush’s proposed changes and it reflects a callous disregard for the welfare of American citizens in the decades to come.
NO privatization of our Social Security
NO Price indexing
NO ‘personalizing’ of Social Security
NO means NO
The reasons are myriad. ‘Personalizing’ or privatizing Social Security will add $2 trillion to the federal deficit in the first 10 years.
Moreover it cannot be phased in as the end result is the same: generations ahead of us are screwed by the plan: “Under the proposal, the first year benefits for retirees would be calculated using inflation rates rather than the rise in wages over a worker’s lifetime. Because wages tend to rise considerably faster than inflation, the new formula would stunt the growth of benefits, slowly at first but more quickly by the middle of the century. …..According to the Social Security Administration’s chief actuary, a middle class worker retiring in 2022 would see guaranteed bendefits cut by 9.9 percent. By 2042, average monthly benefits for middle- and high-income workers would fall by more than a quarter. A retiree in 2075 would receive 54 percent of the benefit now promised.” (Changing Social Secuirty as We Know It: the administration’s formula would reduce future payments, by Weisman and Allen: Washington Post National Weekly Edition, January 10-16, 2005; p. 18)
Your own colleague, Senator Baucus, Ranking member of the Committee on Finance, is making the point. We are making the points over and over and over and over: NO privatization: NO “phase in” of privatization.

NO MEANS NO.


http://finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2005press/prb020105.pdf: released 2.1.05

From the desk of Senator Max Baucus: Ranking Member in the Committee on Finance:

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) Today, U.S. Senator Max Baucus said that a Social Security proposal being seriously considered by the Bush Administration would have pushed seven million seniors into poverty this year, had the plan been in effect since the Social Security program began in 1940. Baucus is ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over the Social Security program. This information was contained in a new report Baucus requested from the non-partisan Congressional Research Service (CRS).

Currently, there are 3.5 million seniors who are living in poverty in the U.S. The report
indicates, however, that 10.5 million seniors would be in poverty this year if the plan being seriously considered by the White House had been initiated in 1940, the first year in which Social Security benefits were issued.

“Social Security is a crucial program for our seniors,” Baucus said. “Had this proposal
been in place since 1940, it would have pushed many of our seniors into poverty. As the
President and Congress work on ways to strengthen Social Security, we need to keep in mind this program is critical to protect seniors from poverty.”

[DemoMemo]

100. The Answer

Question: Who is going to make up the difference when the younger workers' money is taken out of the mix ?

Answer: The younger workers. To finance his plan, the President has to pump up the national debt by a couple of trillion or more. Aside from the added risk of economic instability -- collect enough debt and the economy hits a tipping point and completely destabilizes -- it's the younger workers who will be paying the interest on that debt, as well as trying to pay down that debt. Basically, they get screwed.

[kurt_cagle]

122. Tipping Point

The economy's already hit the tipping point - maybe before the US election even. Dollar's been sitting stable at $1.30 to the Euro for nearly three weeks now after beginning to "rally", stocks are beginning to drop after hitting highs back in November. The perfect wave isn't visible yet, but the water's definitely receding.

I think the Social Security effort is a smokescreen issue. It will be rendered pretty much moot within the next three to four months, as the economy's collapse accelerates, as the Chinese and Japanese start to pull even more money out of T-Bills and into their Euro equivalents hoping to get out while the getting is good. The US will be in a full-bore recession rivaling that of about 1935 by September, with the rest of the world getting dragged down in the process by next January.

On a historical note, the Depression was not one recession ... it was four, caused in large part by a mix of too loose credit, business changing technologies, and poor regulatory oversight. The first recession was the equivalent of our technology recession, hitting emergent companies first and wiping out a significant portion of them, while leaving much of the rest of the country largely untouched. The economy "rebounding" to roughly 80% of the level of the old economy at its height. The second recession wiped out an overinflated housing market and began to hit the banks, by the third recession, even the wealthiest were hit hard, leaving many mansions to gather dust as their owners were forced out.

Yet even then, the US was not hit as hard as Germany, which was a DEBTOR nation with an apparently strong infrastructure that went into the same cycle of expansionism, hyperinflation and economic collapse that we are facing now. The difference there, however, is even worse for us now, because most of the rest of the world was not heavily vested in Deutsch Marks then. Now, the US is trying to get out of its debts by devaluing its currency, which is resulting in a subsequent effort to get out of the dollar and get into more tangible assets. In some cases that money is being reinvested into the US to buy real-estate, but more of it is shifting out of the US entirely for fear of the social conditions that are beginning to emerge.

There's nothing to stop the dollar from collapsing, folks. Social security is a red herring to keep people from realizing just HOW precarious the country's economic state is RIGHT NOW.

[DemoMemo]

164. Tipping Point

You're dead on target. You're exactly right.

[EC]

117. 2 TRILLION DOLLAR LOAN

THEN TEN YEARS LATER A 4 TRILLION DOLLAR LOAN.... AND IF HE DOESN'T GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK SOON........ IT'LL BE ALOT MORE....

[Patchuli]

152. Nope and I have more questions!

My husband is 54 and I am 50. Where the heck does that leave us???!
We've both paid for 30+ years! Why should WE get a 40-45% cut on
what was promised to US?! n

Since Pres. Dickwad wants this to be an "ownership society" and to
allow people to control their own destiny (har har), how about letting
my husband and I take out what WE have paid in for 30+ years? We'll
take care of our own money, thanks. Don't need the gubment to decide
where we'll invest!

[SammyWinstonJack]

159. That's what I am thinking.

My husband is 53 and I am 52 also have paid into SS for 30+ years. Give us back our money and we'll do with it what we want. As Pres. Dickwad is so often fond of saying, it's our money!

[Rapcw]

11. LOL that was a great speach by a great LIAR

More lies than i expected n/t

[jab105]

13. Reid sounds like Daschle...good grief, I'm falling asleep...

nt/

[Rhiannon12866]

95. They should have given the job to Ted Kennedy

He's the one who's mad as hell and finally speaking out. I was hoping that they'd turn the camera on him, like they did last year, especially when Bush* started bragging about "No Child Left Behind!":-(

[Blue_In_AK]

103. I thought I heard someone on Countdown

say that Kennedy wasn't going to be there because of a personal issue.

[Rhiannon12866]

109. Thanks! I didn't hear that!

And I caught most of "Countdown." I'll have to catch the repeat. Maybe the "personal issue" was that he was afraid he's be tempted to use spit wads. Or an Uzi!:shrug:

edited for typo

[Joyce78]

135. Good grief, I think I've died!

[Endangered Specie]

14. Harry Reid is talking about his past

[SlavesandBulldozers]

23. good god is he boring

what is he babbling on about?

[ultraist]

15. Senator Reid

Is not very charismatic is he?

Where's the opposition?

[paineinthearse]

20. birth tax, love it

[MissB]

17. Oh FOR CRYING IN A BUCKET

Get Dean out there to do the Democratic response. Reid and Pelosi blow. They are very smart and capable, but their delivery SUCKS. SUCKS. SUCKS.

We need fire, people. FIRE.

ARRRRGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[beam me up scottie]

22. i want to hear boxer

[dalloway]

25. i SECOND that

[DemoMemo]

58. I third that!

Good grief, Reid!

[beam me up scottie]

i don't wanna hear any more about playing nice, that's

how we got here, again

[Tinoire]

69. I totally agree. Pelosi sounds like she's talking to the PTA

:mad: :mad:

Where is our voice? People are mad. This is no time to put someone with no spark up there!

[Swamp Rat]

86. I haven't watched one second of this fiasco.

Where there any ANY Dems with a spine? Anyone shoot Bush the KIller the bird or boo him??? :mad:

[Tinoire]

153. I didn't notice any when I listened to it but now I'm going to watch it

I would really have loved to hear Dean following Bush. Would have left me feeling that there's hope. I'm listening to :boring: Pelosi for the second time right now. Bad move putting her up there. I'm a Democrat & can hardly listen to her. Ouch!

Ask Anti-Coup about the spine bit. I think he said there were but I don't know what made him say that.

Bryd would have been a much better choice.

Going to bed now... No green monsters to keep me company :shrug:

Peace ;)

[Swamp Rat]

154. Did ANYONE mention Osama?

I cannot bring myself to listen. I was listening to Mike Malloy and accidently heard Bush's nasty voice for a few seconds when the show ended and AAR played some of the SOTU, but I immediately quit RealPlayer before my head exploded. Now I am listening to Thom Hartmann on radiopower.org... so much better. :)

Bonne nuit :boring:

[Rhiannon12866]

166. Yes, there were significant boos. Especially on Social Security

And, according to the likes of Joe Scarborough, this is just not done, since he had to listen to Bill Clinton. Those who dared to boo, during a SOTU are "rude." My question is, where were the guys who throw pies?:shrug:

[sendero]

LOL..

... that's RIGHT! That's what I've been saying here for TWO DAMN YEARS!

America is about entertainment. Give the people SOME RED MEAT FOR KRICE SAKES!!!!!! :)

[MissB]

93. I don't even want to be entertained, frankly

But after watching Bush give his speech and be applauded, we didn't need to have two mice squeaking (sorry Reid and Pelosi).

We needed WHAT THEY SAID, but said forcefully. For no other reason than to offset the image put forth by Bush.

[sendero]

97. It's not about what you and I want..

... I agree - it is about connecting with the vast sleeping masses of Americans. They need something to wake them from their stupor :)

[mgmstl]

145. Where did you get that

Bumpersticker W "Footprint of the American Dumbass"...I am DYING laughing here!!!

[Joyce78]

138. Bush Image

Bush looked like a cartoon ... his minions cheering the fact that he could read the teleprompter was a cartoon. The scary part of the whole cartoon was the Cheney Hastert Duo ... jeez, they looked scary to me!

[mgmstl]

125. They weren't THAT BAD

Come on, Dean IS NOT the answer to all of our issues. I think Reid & Pelosi were good, and effective. No one's delivery could suck more than the Texas Turd Boy, Dubya. Of course Pelosi's eyebrows looked like the were on the top of her forehead, other than that, they were good.

[Joyce78]

136. Totally agree with your statements.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

21. REID IS THROWING THE DAMN FIGHT! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[JohnOneillsMemory]

28. Reid is why Americans watch FUCKING WAR AND APPLAUD.

[The Backlash Cometh]

144. Good God! I'm glad I missed both speakers. So, who was the

main attraction?

[postulater]

24. I shoulda stayed in the sauna

I came out halfway through the SOTU. The hot air in the sauna felt much better.

[DalvaThree]

26. I think Reid is doing great

He's a storyteller - he draws people in - it's not the DU/internet smack down style - but it's effective.

He's more believable than Daschle ever was.

[ultraist]

30. Storyteller? zzzzzzzzzzzzz

A good storyteller captures your attention.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

31. he's a total bore

like a school principal delivering a motivational speech.

[BrightKnight]

140. They put me to sleep. We can do better than that.

Perhaps our speakers should not be chosen by their political status alone.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

33. "We can do better." zzzzzzzzzzzz "WHAT WAR CRIMES? POVERTY?"

[JohnOneillsMemory]

42. And some wonder why the GropenFuhrer is so popular.....yikes....

[satya]

39. I agree; he's not talking to us.

No need to preach to the choir, he's going after that middle ground.

[tishaLA]

63. He's Mr. Rogers

all he needs is a new cardigan.

[ultraist]

106. LMAO!!!

OMG, MR. Rogers! LOL!

[Joyce78]

139. I can't take it ... I'm laughing myself silly to bed for a change!!

Then I'll cry as I continue to read Worse Than Watergate.

[Babel_17]

84. I absolutely agree

He's not trying to impress us.

He's going after the voters that are swayable.

I bet you his talk went over very, very well with seniors (among other).

And IIRC they mostly all vote and belong to influential groups.

Bushco's speech fell on deaf ears with us but does he care?

No, he's going after a voting group that his party can make inroads on.

In a far more honorable and honest way Reid was doing the same thing.

On balance, I think our strategy will be the winning one.

Lol, unless Bushco organizes keggers on election day and gets the twins to do a girls gone wild.

[DemoMemo]

88. You Can't Wake People Up By Putting Them To Sleep!

x( x( x( How can we possibly wake people up in the midst of this Republican onslaught of Orwellian doublespeak where "peace" = "war" and "honor" = "dishonor" and lies are just the price of getting what the Republicans want when the Democratic response is someone who can't grab people's attention, stir them up, and get them to step out of their somnambulism for just one moment? x( x( x(

[mgmstl]

129. I agree

I thought Reid was effective, as was Pelosi. My only problem was her eyebrows. They do need to be more forceful though. However Kennedy has way too much baggage. Perhaps Boxer, or Durbin (who was damn good on the floor today sparring with Domenici)or even Kerry.

Perhaps the Democratic response should have had families of soldiers who were killed in the war & did not support Bush or the war. OR a room full of disenfranchised Ohio voters.

[Joyce78]

141. How Dare You!

Ted Kennedy's "baggage" is nothing compared to W's septic tankload. Bush is toxic.

[Solly Mack]

29. ohm....ohm...ohm.....ohm.....ohm.....

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm Ommmmmmmmmmmm Ommmmmmmmm

[Solly Mack]

40. hehehehe

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. lol!

;)

[Joyce78]

143. lol

[beam me up scottie]

37. i can't find my happy place, can i use yours?

[Solly Mack]

44. Sure!!!! lolol

[paineinthearse]

32. comparing * speach to groundhog day (movie)

same idealogy over and over and over

[isit2008yet]

34. It's freaking talking points...

Why can't they get someone like Obama ...a forceful speaker with original ideas?

[racer-x]

38. That Guy for President!

That Guy for President!

whoever he is.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

46. who?

Reid? i dont get it.

[Turd Ferguson]

48. I don't think he's doing badly

I think he is communicating a very effective message and doing so in a respectful but forcefu way.

[ultraist]

56. FORCEFUL?

You have got to be kidding! DEADPAN is more like it.

[ultraist]

You don't who REID is? You must not be a Dem

[DemoMemo]

72. Obama, Pelosi, Boxer .... Gosh Even Kerry, Why Not?

Oh please, anybody but Reid! Who came up with this guy? Why are they intent on flushing the party down the toilet?

[manly]

158. talking points

The last time I saw Obama he was kissing Condoleeza's ass. As far as I'm concerned, he has dug himself into a hole, and will have to expend some effort to shovel out.

[ultraist]

41. FINALLY! A little oppostion! On SS...

Put some emotion in your tone, Senator Reid! PLEASE!

"We are all God's children."

WHAT? WTF is the REPUKE LITE BS? uuuggggh...

Let's hope Nancy does a little better.

[aquart]

43. Reid is central casting Casper Milquetoast.

His words are good, but he reads as pure bank teller wimp.

[Solly Mack]

Oman, I was thinking Milquetoast....so glad it wasn't just me

[Joyce78]

142. Bush sounds and looks like Milquetoast ...

and gist lookin for that next drink while cleerin brush down in Crawford!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

49. GO PELOSI!! please? please??

[Ilsa]

65. Hey, I knew some bank teller who were party animals.

Had to scrape them off the floor, throw some clothes on them three days later after they would throw a "little get-together."

[Endangered Specie]

45. Reid: bush's plan is: Social Security Roullette...

"and thats coming from a senator thats representing Las Vegas" lol!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

53. yeah, it was an okay joke

delivered by somebody who has no sense of humor or spontaneity.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

59. BUT Americans turned him off long long ago before his little joke...

[WarNoMore]

51. They're still interviewing on C-Span II

Rep. Slaughter was very eloquent and convincing.

[Idioteque]

52. They should have held a rally for the response

A quiet room can't compare with a ridiculus amount of applause lines.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

57. definitely

good call

[Solly Mack]

54. well, we got the speak softly....now where's the big stick?

[ultraist]

61. NO SHIT! WHERE'S THE BIG STICK?

They didn't pull out any big sticks! Opposing Social Security was as far as he went.

*sigh* I am so disappointed.

[chomskysright]

104. here's one piece of the 'BIG STICK'...

http://finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2005press/prb020105.pdf: released 2.1.05

From the desk of Senator Max Baucus: Ranking Member in the Committee on Finance:

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) Today, U.S. Senator Max Baucus said that a Social Security proposal being seriously considered by the Bush Administration would have pushed seven million seniors into poverty this year, had the plan been in effect since the Social Security program began in 1940. Baucus is ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over the Social Security program. This information was contained in a new report Baucus requested from the non-partisan Congressional Research Service (CRS).

Currently, there are 3.5 million seniors who are living in poverty in the U.S. The report
indicates, however, that 10.5 million seniors would be in poverty this year if the plan being seriously considered by the White House had been initiated in 1940, the first year in which Social Security benefits were issued.

“Social Security is a crucial program for our seniors,” Baucus said. “Had this proposal
been in place since 1940, it would have pushed many of our seniors into poverty. As the
President and Congress work on ways to strengthen Social Security, we need to keep in mind this program is critical to protect seniors from poverty.”

[beam me up scottie]

64. i'm afraid to go to sleep, do you think they'll round up the

gays first or atheists?

[ultraist]

LMAO!! LOCK YOUR DOORS!

[beam me up scottie]

74. the atheists, they mentioned god one too many times

oh well, my bags have been packed for ages...

[Solly Mack]

73. Sleep! I'll send positive vibes your way!!!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

78. if we could all concentrate our mental powers on

* just once, do you think he would spontaneously combust?

[Solly Mack]

82. not from lack of trying :)

[JohnOneillsMemory]

55. troop talk. future future building the future WANTS AN EXIT PLAN. OK!

[Plaid Adder]

60. How come nobody ever lets ME give the Democratic response?

I'd be arrested immediately following and the networks would all be fined by the FCC, but at least there'd be headlines the next day.

When Dean's DNC chair, can they get him to do it? A little yellin' is just what you need after something like this.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[ultraist]

67. LOL! They should have let OBAMA give the speech.

Or someone who doesn't sound half fucking dead.

[beam me up scottie]

70. please yes do, anything but the drivel like what was on tv in

the John Carpenter movie "They Live"

[JohnOneillsMemory]

66. She's stumbling. 'Strong national security.' ....wow. I'm underwhelmed.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

71. "GI Bill for the 21st century" ..is this part of a recruiting/draft move??

[JohnOneillsMemory]

That was such a fekkin' lame response. Totally boring and vague. SHIT.

[liberalpragmatist]

77. No - GI Bill gave assistance to veterans for college

So she's proposing a new one for military vets.

[EC]

68. President Bush said: “Tonight I propose a three-year initiative to help

organizations keep young people out of gangs.”

FACT: President Bush has proposed a 40 percent cut in federal juvenile crime prevention funds, which would effectively “pull the plug” on good local programs that reduce gang and youth violence.

FACT: President Bush has sponsored a 44 percent overall reduction in delinquency-fighting and anti-gang funds since 2002.

President Bush said, “We are cooperating with 60 governments in the Proliferation Security Initiative, to detect and stop the transit of dangerous materials.”

FACT: The administration has undermined the legitimacy of the Proliferation Security Initiative by refusing to ratify the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. This treaty has been ratified by 145 nations, including the other members of the Proliferation Security Initiative (who insist that it provides the only legitimate international framework for the initiative). Even Republican Senator Richard Lugar – chairman of the Armed Services Committee and a Bush supporter – has repeatedly criticized the administration for failing to ratify the treaty.

more: http://www-nocache.thinkprogress.org/index.php?tag=State%20of%20the%20Union

[paineinthearse]

76. Stinkin' liar

Forward that to your local MSM

[ihelpu2see]

101. "YES" as Marv Albert would say 3 years in a row, Lies in 3 consecutive

SOUs..

2002-3 WMDs and Al Qeda in Iraq references, now and then know to be false

2004-5 lies about Social Security and the lame line about ...brave soldiers being killed in Iraq so we don't have to face terror here, of course im paraphrasing but god thats got to make any young soldiers families skin crawl.

[Rhiannon12866]

87. Thanks! I caught many of the lies, but it's nice to see them listed

I was hoping to hear something like this from the Democrats. *sigh*:shrug:

[Hippo_Tron]

99. This is why we need a format similar to Prime Minister's Questions

Bush should be required to answer for his lies.

[EC]

114. Exactly,

I've always said we need to be more like the British Parliament, with the lies being yelled at them as they are coming out of their mouths, how else can we get anyone to listen and believe they are lies, unless we are willing to say to their faces that they are lieing....

[Liberty Belle]

150. I suppose his plan to keep teens out of gangs

will be to send them all to Iraq, or Iran, or wherever he invades next.

[DemonFighterLives]

75. Cspan has callers now

It sure warmed my heart to hear that W was going to fix out broken soldiers.

[ThunderBran]

80. Re: Social Security

Quote: So here is the result: Thirteen years from now, in 2018, Social
Security will be paying out more than it takes in. And every year
afterward will bring a new shortfall, bigger than the year
before. For example, in the year 2027, the government will somehow
have to come up with an extra 200 billion dollars to keep the system
afloat - and by 2033, the annual shortfall would be more than 300
billion dollars. By the year 2042, the entire system would be
exhausted and bankrupt. If steps are not taken to avert that
outcome, the only solutions would be drastically higher taxes,
massive new borrowing, or sudden and severe cuts in Social Security
benefits or other government programs.



btw, if this paragraph doesn't make you mad then i don't know what will. The money was there, in the SS trust fund, and Bush raided it to pay for his tax cut. Now he's saying "well we better figure something the fuck out before all the money's gone"

You took it asshole, don't act like this was going to happen anyway.

And people laughed at Al Gore's "Lock Box"...

[alcuno]

110. Actually, I believe the IOU's start coming due in 2018.

Every time they take from the SS surplus, they write an IOU. BTW, welcome to DU.

[mgmstl]

147. I agree with that.............

Plus he wants to make his tax cuts for the wealthy & corporations
PERMANENT.

Social Security funds should be placed in a locked box NEVER to be touched again. GOD I would FDR & Eleanor are turning in their graves!!

[paineinthearse]

79. CNN has Anna Marie Cox (wonkette)

[ultraist]

81. FUCK YOU ANDREW SULLIVAN FOR CALLING DEMS LAME!

[Solly Mack]

83. don't you just want to smack him?

[paineinthearse]

85. And the elephant you rode in on.

[ultraist]

91. Obama at the event

[EC]

92. Oh, and this one makes me feel real safe....

President Bush said, “We have created a new department of government to defend our homeland, focused the FBI on preventing terrorism,…improved border security, and trained more than a half million first responders.”

FACT: “As its leadership changes for the first time, the Department of Homeland Security remains hampered by personality conflicts, bureaucratic bottlenecks and an atmosphere of demoralization, undermining its ability to protect the nation against terrorist attack, according to current and former administration officials and independent experts.”

FACT: “DHS is still a compilation of 22 agencies that aren’t integrated into a cohesive whole,” said its recently departed inspector general, Clark Kent Ervin, who released many critical reports and was not reappointed after a falling-out with Ridge. Asked for examples of ineffectiveness, he replied: “I don’t know where to start. . . . I’ve never seen anything like it.”

http://www-nocache.thinkprogress.org/index.php?tag=State%20of%20the%20Union

edit
forgot link

[ihelpu2see]

94. But in a sence Bush calls for spending US money and brave soldiers lives

to spread democracy..... We were worried about the Red scurge and as a proud US citizen I would have to say now I am worried about an Imperial United States....

I dont want my tax money or my Son, formost, to be spent to push democracy abroad. Especially when more and more children, US children fall below the povery line and where universal health care could have been put in place with 6 months of what the Iraq war (NO WMDs) cost us...

????? and people actually think this is a good idea, this insane that in the 21 century we are persuing a never ending war against countries that can not harm us and could not harm us...

[EC]

116. I feel the same

and I'm at a loss as to what to do about it...I'm really considering not doing my taxes this year....

[Hippo_Tron]

96. Frist is saying that only the majority party is allowed to block judges

That's such bullshit. Either you give EVERY judge an up or down vote whether you control the judicary committee or not, or judges are blocked in any way that the opposition party sees fit. BTW I wonder why Larry King didn't ask him if he's running for president.

[paineinthearse]

102. Blue ink

I hope the ink the rethugs used is not carcenogenic.

[EC]

119. Shit, I hope it is

it was such a childish stunt...

[Nordmadr]

162. It's blue toilet water!! N/T

[tgnyc]

105. That Dem response was at least one year too early

and ten degrees too boring. Bush produces a crying Iraqi female first-time voter, a crying mother-of-dead-American soldier, and Reid starts telling stories about little boys who want to grow up to be just like him? WHAT THE FUCK???!!!

Has an African-American ever given the Dem response? Jesse Jackson Jr. could have made all the same points Reid and Pelosi did in an infinitely more engaging manner.

[lakeguy]

107. yup, dem response was a good message but way to boring!

i wish barack could have given half of it. i love watchin that guy speak!

[yorkdane]

111. Senator Boxer

is on with Larry King at CNN right now! She made excellent points! Sorry I can not type fast enough to catch what she said. Part of what I liked: "...why should someone of 55 get full benefits and someone at 54 not get the same benefits...both may have children...have worked equally as hard..." As far as I could see after flipping from CBS to NBC to ABC to FOX to MSNBC to CNN, she was the only Democrat to be interviewed at length. I missed * speech so I am going to read through the DU threads for the real picture. Thank you DU!

[Turbineguy]

108. OK, I watched the last few minutes

the business of bringing the Parents of the soldier who was killed...

The people who wrote the speech: seductively beguiling, but I'm not convinced.

When it was over I put on a Max Bruch CD.

As an Air freshener to get the stench out of the house.

[w4rma]

112. Dems said all the right things, but they need to show emotion when

reading that teleprompter. The emotion would have woken folks up and made it easier to understand their speeches due to the extra context that emotion brings.

Nonetheless. They have improved greatly.

[Hebegirl]

149. I Really Hope They Have

The Repuke Lite that I am hearing from the blog (I can't stomach the actual thing) is making me think they are back to their 'mole mode,' which they had JUST started breaking out of. They are NOT going to convince any middleground Shrub voters to follow them. That is a lost cause. What they need to do is rally the base to get active and oppose Shrub's devious scams. So what if they get 'labeled." Who the F*&^% cares? Of course Shrub is trying to get out of the debt owed to social security. He has never once had to be accountable in his life.
A columnist said it best, (w/ regard to the whole blown-way-out-of-proportion-Fascists-R-Us Dan Rather debacle): How Bush's inner aristocrat oozes out in certain moments:
"Some people ought to pay for their mistakes. Others never have to."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

113. 6 little words

http://www.ericblumrich.com/idiot.html

[Blue_In_AK]

115. Thank you so much for that.

REALLY funny. :yourock: :headbang:

[stevedeshazer]

121. That was great, thanks!

[Biased Liberal Media]

118. Joe Lieberman is standing there applauding like a blind idiot

what a fucking moron.

I missed it so I am watching it on CSPAN now.

[mgmstl]

123. Bush Is Such An ASS

He is an incompetent ass.....I didn't realize how EVIL Condomsleeza Rice looks until tonight. I actually didn't watch the speech I was watching "Imitation Of Life" on TCM, damn that funeral scene is a killer.... However I switched back & forth waiting for the Democrat Response which I did watch, Not bad....I thought Reid was good, and so was Pelosi. I just cannot stand the sound of Bush's voice any longer. However I did hear that the Democrats did not stand at several points...My feeling is that after about 5 minutes they all should have stood up & walked out or turned their backs on him.


No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument the Incorporated National Will. ... When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say `Heil' to him, nor will they call him `Führer' or `Duce.' But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of `O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!'" -- Dorothy Thompson, 1935

[mgmstl]

124. Biggest MISTAKE GORE MADE

Was picking that suckup to the right Joe Lieberman....Of all the choices he could have made this guy was the worst...He is way too conciliatory to the right for me.

[keopeli]

155. Biggest mistake? Gore won. He appealed broadly and won.

No doubt had our Democracy not died in 2000, you would have kept a sharp eye out on the religious fervor of Lieberman and even been frustrated by him. But, labeling Gore with a mistake when he won is a little much.

[Biased Liberal Media]

120. Oh barf!!! Sanctity of marriage??

protecting the children by supporting the institution of marriage?

Yuck!

[Behind the Aegis]

126. Why do I picture Helen Lovejoy?

"Won't someone think of the children!?!?" These people are nothing but bigots and they don't even try to hide it anymore! FUCK THEM!

[mgmstl]

127. The sanctity of marriage......

Oh come on............That was TOO MUCH. Next he is going to be telling people they need to produce more children for Der Faterland..
The crap he spews out reminds me more & more of that fascist garbage of the Nazi's....It is really frightening, perhaps the next step will be outlawing gays & lesbians, or internment camps, or anti sponge-bob cartoon's, maybe some one should invent a new cartoon character called: "SPONGE BUSH"... Cheybey could be Patrick, Barbara Bush could be Squidwird, it would be a HOOT..

[ultraist]

130. I am so disappointed with the Democratic response

Senator Reid droned on about a boring story about a little boy and then cited the movie Ground Hog day. Can it get any worse than that?

Pelosi stumbled through a dry and uninspiring speech.

Who wrote their speeches and why did we have to have two horrible orators speak for us?

You can't get more blase than those two.

WTF?

[mgmstl]

132. What did you want him to do?????

If they come in screaming like cannon's they are screwed, he stated Bush's SS Plans are DEAD in the water. Not everyone is going to be a Barbara Boxer, or Ted Kennedy or John Kerry.

While I agree they could have been a bit more agressive, I find nothing wrong with their response. Bush's speech is getting LAME ratings in the polls. While all of the msm yahoo's are probably saying what a great speech it was.

[ultraist]

151. Oh, please...

Would it be that difficult to use material other than a boring story of a little boy that wanted to be just like him and cite Groundhog Day? I'm sorry, but his speech sucked. He obviously wrote it himself.

There was no LIFE in the speech and it was uninspiring.

[slay]

157. I too was very disappointed

I would have loved to have seen a Boxer/Kucinich response that really lets these liars, criminals, and murderers who have taken over the government have it! When will the Dems learn that this is NOT business as usual and drastic measures are called for?

[stepnw1f]

134. The man Abuses God, Himself

What a pretentious over-reaching mad man. Hubris just oozes from this man's mealy mouth.

[BrightKnight]

137. Bush's "A Better Deal" program.

He actually said that he wanted to provide workers with "a better deal." I don't see how gutting and exploiting the new deal Social Security program is a better deal.

I don't want any part of Bush's "a better deal" program.

[mgmstl]

148. It's Time To Bend Over & Grab Yer Ankles....

If Bush has "A Better Deal" be AFRAID, be VERY VERY AFRAID, that means WE will be getting screwed!!!!!!!!!

[Sailing]

146. Thrift Savings Plan lie

Bush brought up the federal employees Thrift Savings Plan in his comparison for discussion on investment accounts in Social Security:

I worked for a while as a federal employee and am familiar with the Thrift Savings Plan


Important:

The Thrift Savings plan is the federal employees equivalent of the 401k. It replaced the old pension system in the exact same way the 401k's replace corporate pension plans.

It has no comparison with Social Security privatization accounts

[Grayday]

156. Paperclip, did anyone notice the mother of the dead soldier

holding a paperclip? Or was I seeing right? My grandson said
he thought it was a paperclip, too.

[T Town Jake]

160. Just FYI...

...that was her son's dog-tags.

[ultraist]

163. A.N.S.W.E.R.'s Response to the SOTU

Email I recieved and was asked to forward (that's why I posted it in entirety rather than just 4 paragraphs)

A.N.S.W.E.R.'s response to
Bush’s State of the Union address

Empire - the true aim of the U.S. government - is barely concealed under the lofty rhetoric of Bush's State of the Union address. In its pursuit, the U.S. government is committed to the destruction of every government and people that stands in its way, in the Middle East and throughout the world.

"Freedom and democracy" for Iraq and "liberty" around the world are new code words for a very particular global strategy. According to this strategy, the Pentagon's military pre-eminence will be used to invade, bomb, subvert and threaten any and all countries in the formerly colonized and semi-colonized world that seek to maintain control over their own resources and retain even nominal independence and sovereignty. Bush and the neo-conservatives are the political spokespersons for this strategy. Congress and the courts fade into an ornamental status as Pentagon-enforced capitalism asserts itself as the real power in contemporary U.S. politics.

Bush and the Iraq "elections"

The Bush State of the Union Address comes days after the "elections" in Iraq. The timing of the two events was carefully scripted by the White House. Both were organized in Washington D.C. After killing more than 100,000 Iraqis and destroying the Iraqi social and political structure (not to mention the previous Iraqi state apparatus), the Bush administration tonight demagogically postures as the great liberator. This is the pose assumed by all aggressors in modern history on the "home front."

The Iraq elections were manipulated by foreign occupation. Political parties outlawed by the occupiers could not participate. Foreign troops held the country in lock-down. Large areas of Iraq never participated. But even for those who did vote, participation was not a signal of support for the occupation of their country or an expression of love for Bush. The great majority of people in Iraq, who have suffered greatly, want to re-gain control over their country.

The anti-war and progressive movement must look reality in the face as it prepares for the coming struggle.

The real objectives of the U.S. war in Iraq

The Bush administration hoped to quickly invade Iraq and set up a puppet regime. The goal was to destroy the previous government, further secure its geo-strategic interests in the region, and weaken Iraq to a point that any new government would be on its knees before Wall Street and the IMF. This was the overarching goal of thirteen years of economic sanctions from 1990-2003.

This was also the Clinton administration's objective when it forced the removal of the UN weapons inspectors in 1998 and began the daily bombing of Iraq that continued right up to the full-scale "shock and awe" invasion.

Also of primary interest to the U.S. is the economic re-colonization of Iraq. The U.S. government hopes to turn the situation back to the one that existed decades before the 1972 nationalization of Iraq's vast oil resources.

On top of this, the Bush administration added additional goals to the pre-existing imperialist agenda. The most important of the new goals was the creation of 14 large permanent Pentagon bases in Iraq that could be used as a forward staging ground for new aggressions against nations of this oil-rich region.

The goal of the Bush administration was not to occupy Iraq with hundreds of thousands of troops forever. But the vast armed resistance in Iraq has made the withdrawal of the occupation forces impossible. The resistance, as a widespread urban guerrilla force, can only exist with widespread popular support. It has tied up and prevented the Pentagon juggernaut from moving on in full force against Iran, Syria, Lebanon, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and elsewhere, but it is clear from tonight’s speech that Syria, Iran and others are Bush's next targets.

The Bush administration hopes that the January 30 "election" can confer semi-legitimacy to a new puppet Iraqi government. But the staged "election" will not mean a new dawn for peace - on the contrary. The U.S. government is threatening that if they can stabilize a puppet regime in Iraq, it will open new wars of aggression in an attempt to secure U.S. imperialist global geo-strategic interests.

The U.S. plan for Palestine

Palestine and the Palestinian leadership and people were not officially included with Iraq, Iran and North Korea in Bush's "axis of evil" list during the State of the Union Address three years ago. But the full-scale assault against the Palestinian people has proceeded relentlessly.

Israel's murderous terror campaign against the Palestinian people and their political and grassroots leadership is an organic extension of the war waged against the Arab and Middle Eastern peoples by the U.S. empire. Years of exile, assassinations, colonization, mass imprisonment, the construction of the hideous Apartheid Wall, the forced imposition of mass unemployment and malnutrition are now followed by Bush celebrating the election of new "leaders." Such is the embrace of "democracy and freedom!"

Washington is attempting once again to undermine, divide and destroy the Palestinian national movement. Bush and his advisors are trying to get the Palestinian National Authority to accept a Bantustan-style quasi-mini-state - broken up pieces of non-sovereign territory under the direct control of the Israeli army. They want the Palestinian leadership to sign away the inalienable right of return of the Palestinian people who were driven from their homeland, despite the fact that this right is fundamental under international law. The Bush team is seeking the confinement of the Palestinian people in a Bantustan entirely dependent on the United States.

Empire and "democracy"

Bush claims that the U.S. is not seeking to form an empire. Rather, he claims, "it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture." A look at Haiti exposes this sham propaganda. In twenty-six days the people of Haiti will angrily commemorate the first anniversary of the Bush/Pentagon coup and kidnapping of the democratically elected President of that country. Jean-Bertrand Aristide was the first democratically elected president of Haiti. The Bush administration smashed that government and installed a U.S. puppet regime.

The Bush administration's support for the failed coup and later recall election against the democratically elected government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, along with the ongoing U.S. campaign to overthrow the Cuban government, further expose Bush’s lies about "freedom and democracy."

In the name of making the world safe for the spread of democracy, Bush has invaded and set up puppet governments in Afghanistan, Iraq and Haiti. He is attempting to deal a dangerous blow to the legitimate national aspirations of the people of Palestine. The U.S. intends to use all available tools to overthrow the government of Syria and reincorporate Lebanon into the U.S. economic sphere of influence. The U.S. is working to draw Libya, with or without the current government, into the its sphere of influence. It is attempting to re-draw the economic and social map of the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa.

War and diplomacy

War, whether overt as in Iraq now or covert as in Iran, should not be considered as separate from diplomacy. Those who plead that the Bush administration should pursue a diplomatic approach, as opposed to naked military aggression, are making a phony distinction. War, threats of war, economic sanctions and diplomacy are merely tactics and methods, means in pursuit of certain ends. For the Bush administration, the end is creating a far-flung U.S. empire. All the U.S. corporations, the banks and both political parties have 100 percent agreement about the desire of attaining this goal. Whatever differences over tactics, policy and timing they might have are secondary. This is what accounts for the widespread acquiescence among the Democratic "opposition" to even the most adventuristic tactics on the part of Bush, Cheney and their neo-conservative crew.

Defend social security and social programs

The people of the United States must stand against the empire. Defying empire is not only an act of solidarity with those around the world who are demanding the right to determine their own destiny free from U.S. domination. Working people across the United States are also the victims of the empire. Our sons and daughters are sent to kill and be killed. Billions of dollars are being transferred from education, health care, housing and job training in order to finance one imperialist war after another.

Bush announced tonight that there will be a freeze or near freeze for all spending with the exception of military programs. This will mean an additional severe cut in programs that working and poor people depend upon. But he has proposed $80 billion in new money to fund the war on Iraq. This is on top of the $150 billion already spent on the Iraq war (nearly $270 million each day), and over and above last year's $420 billion Pentagon budget.

Every new region of the country that is "globalized" into the U.S. economic sphere of influence becomes a new playground for U.S. corporations in endless pursuit of creating new areas for starvation-wage jobs. Whole industries, not just jobs, are being outsourced. It is clear from tonight's speech that Bush and Wall Street want to privatize Social Security as a devious scheme to steal the deferred wages of more than 100 million workers. The empire benefits the banks and corporations, not the people.

The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition calls on everyone to intensify the organizing that we have all been doing together in the last few years. Millions have demonstrated together, coordinating with people in countries all over the world. This is an epic battle between the people on one side and the plutocrats who own and run the country on the other. Politicians have proved to be incapable of stopping war and empire.

The hope lies with the people. Every step forward in the 1930s or the 1960s and 1970s came from the creation of a mass peoples' movement.

March 19 demonstrations

March 19 Global Day of Action. The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition has been working for months to build and support local actions in cities around the country. In every country, people will be in the streets on March 19 to mark the second anniversary of the invasion of Iraq with protest.

Below is a partial listing of the cities where demonstrations are happening on March 19:

Akron, OH
Albuquerque, NM
Ann Arbor, MI
Atlanta, GA
Austin, TX
Baltimore, MD
Boston, MA
Charlotte, NC
Chicago, IL
Cincinnati, OH
Damariscotta, ME
Denver, CO
Flagstaff, AZ
Fort Bragg-Fayetteville, NC
Fort Smith, NH
Los Angeles, CA
Miami, FL
Minneapolis, MN
New Brunswick, NJ (Rutgers Univ.)
New Paltz, NY
New York, NY
Oswego, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Portland, ME
Providence, RI
Sacramento, CA
Sal Lake City, UT
San Diego, CA
San Francisco, CA
Saratoga Springs, NY
Seoul, South Korea
St. Paul, MN
Tucson, AZ
Victoria British Colombia, Canada
Washington, DC
Whittier, CA

[Tux]

165. Vision

Dems had no real vision during the election but they have one now?

Why are they using the language of fundies? Are they turning their backs on us?