Leave Lieberman alone!

[keopeli]

I don't agree with Lieberman in many of his policies, but we have much more important things at hand than criticizing ourselves. I dont speak as a Democrat. I speak as a Progressive American and the Democrats are the only available means to address our present darkness.

It is my opinion that the Democratic Party needs more Senators like Lieberman; elder men (yes, men - not because they have penises, but because they are the ones who have all the business and political experience of the past century) of an older generation who understand why a Democracy works--> everyone can have a voice. Heartland Americans tolerate the looser social structure of Progressive Americans in the "big cities" in a free country, while at the same time the Progressives of the cities tolerate the rigid structure of the Heartland Americans.

Our current dilema is simply that the voice of the people has been muted by a class of people who manipulate the system to achieve and retain power. This isn't a racial class or an economic class, though it may appear so at times. It is a social class that wants to restructure American government in their own image, putting to shame the great social achievements of the 20th Century. In other words, liars and thieves are controlling our system - not at the very top, but at very high levels. The top Administrators and Bush^ practice a "free reign" style of governance. By doing so, they avoid complicity and reproach. All they need do is nod in agreement with current policy as having their approval.

Until we gather in enough numbers, this present darkness will never stop. Abdicating Administrations will simply replace each other until a viable alternative is offered.

To begin gathering in numbers, we must humble ourselves - not to the crooks, but to our fellow Americans. We must capitulate to their beliefs, especially their cultural and ethical beliefs. We must not only agree to disagree - we must advocate their cause as a blessed part of a free society. Vitriol must be saved for the war that ensues abroad - and unity at home is the only real security we can obtain.

Democracy is based on the will of the people. Americans re-elected Bush* (with a little help from his friends) because they could not tolerate a major change. Enough of them felt that Bush*'s knee-jerk military responses were appropriate - plain and simple. Bush* can only go after Social Security becuase he KNOWS that he won based on his loose trigger finger reflex. In fact, I don't disagree. But he has made so very many mistakes because of his ego. He would not wait 4 more months to invade Iraq so that the rest of the world could join him. He tried to make an example out of our allies, instead of rallying the troops. And, reflectively, he wasn't really prepared to launch the war on this scale. Americans would have gladly waited while surrounding Iraq for the inspectors to give their response. We could have waited in Saudi Arabia, our friends. Or, we could have waited in Pakistan, our other friends. He could have asked Saddam in person to allow the US Army to control Iraq in an effort to abate Bin Laden and Al Quaeda - testing the very meddle of Saddam. Had Saddam refused, Bush* could have used this as an excuse to invade the bastard and noone would have looked away.

Bush is the worst thing that has ever happened to America abroad, and he's about to become the worst thing to ever happen to America at home now. So everyone who wants to pay attention to what's going on and be a PART of the solution had better change their tone and get on the side that unites with your detractors. The War on Terror is a Civil War, and the undiciplined liberals (and, by the way, I count myself among you at times) had better get their shit together so we can TAKE OUR FUCKING COUNTRY BACK!!!

Thanks for listening to me.

Keo

--As a note, I'm a citified gay man, originally from Texas, former evangelical minister and missionary, college professor, current Minister of Music at a tolerant Christian Church and I'm an American. I respect everyone's right to criticize Lieberman. In fact, I would probably agree with many of the criticisms. But this is not the time to criticize ourselves. We are what we are, and that's ok. We need to fix our country, and the Democrats are the only realistically available means to do so without violence.

[Vektor]

1. I think he has a good sense of humor.

I saw him on The Daily Show the night of Shrub's coronation, and he was quite funny and likable.

[Jamastiene]

2. Well, I was going to say something sarcastic about him

just to get your goat, but what you said here made sense to me. :thumbsup:

[keopeli]

4. Thanks,Jamestiene...that's cool.

:toast:

[mhr]

3. Lieberman Can Go Jump In The Lake - He Is A Traitor To The

Democratic Party.

Besides Mel, he is the most obvious DINO out there.

[keopeli]

5. I disagree with some of Lieberman's actions also, but he's an American.

He believes in Democracy. He believes in the Democrat Party. He will help the Democrats win more elections by appealing to Heartland Americans. I'm just saying we must prioritize. The Democrats are America's only real future as a Democracy. They must prevail - and as such, we must embrace our ugly differences.

Or, as my friend would say, leave the pimple alone and it will heal itself. Instead, pay attention to that angry virus in your heart.

[bowens43]

8. Bullshit.

Lieberman is no Democrat. He does nothing but kiss the idiot's ass. He has had chance after chance to prove his Democratic credentials. He has failed miserably. 'Democrats' like Lieberman are the problem not the solution.

[zach]

9. I agree with what you're saying..

But please... don't use 'Democrat Party'. I get so tired of hearing them say that, it's the Democratic Party and don't let them try selling it as anything but that.

[Crazy8s]

15. Bush* is an American, too

and look what he's doing to our country.

Sorry, just can't stomach Lieberman. He's more than willing to lie down, roll over and walk on the current administration's leash. We need more wolves and less compliant lap dogs.

Sometimes that bump on your skin isn't a pimple--its a melanoma. It needs to be removed before it removes you!

[ProgressiveConn]

6. The problem is that he is not

from the heartland. I can tolerate more conservative democrats. Just not from New England. =) The man was only elected because Lowell Wieker the Republican was to liberal for some rather shady people.

[beltanefauve]

7. Sorry, I disagree

"In other words, liars and thieves are controlling our system - not at the very top, but at very high levels."

Not at the very top???

As for Lieberman, I think he's a complete sellout and a traitor. Check out: http://www.joseph2004.org. It's a parody site, but it is also very factual regarding his voting record.

[itzamirakul]

10. With FRIENDS like Lieberman...

the Progressives don't need enemies.

Lieberman's positions have to be refuted because he is invited onto so many talk shows and purports to speak for ALL Democrats which is exactly what the RW journalists want to hear.

We cannot afford to allow him to be the VOICE of the Democratic Party.

[Swamp Rat]

11. NO! I will not!

:D




By the way, I am a Univ. prof./music perf/musicology working on another grad degree in science, who lives to eat crawfish and play in Mardi Gras... ad infinitum BS... What's MOST important to me is bringing my family HOME from Iraq. I see Lieberman and others like him as an impediment, an obstacle to rescuing my family and friends from the HORRORS of war. So, this *IS* the time to criticize ALL of the power structure that perpetuates mass murder and servitude on Earth.

I mean no offense to you personally. You seem like a nice person. :hi:

[rooboy]

12. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you...

but I think you might find similar sentiments to yours were expressed by many jews in Germany during the 1930's. Of course, some even joined the Nazis in the early days, but they still were not welcome.

The beast that is the right wing in your country will blame you and marginalize you NO MATTER WHAT you say or do. Your friendship will be distrusted by them or worse, seen as a sign of weakness, and they will only despise you more.

Joe Lieberman has already established what he is. And he is not one of "us".

[KG]

13. lieberman support of the bush admin is an embarrassment to the dem. party

you're never going to 'TAKE OUR FUCKING COUNTRY BACK!!!' with guys like leiberman in your ranks.

[Katidid]

14. I absolutely disagree with your premise.

I will not be a 'turn-coat' to the basic principles of the Democratic Party.

If the Democratic Party sharply changes it's basic tenets, then I will change political parties. I have not been a Democrat for almost 60 years so that I could grow up and become a Republican.

The theme that runs through your original post, ie: "... we must humble ourselves .... We must capitulate to their beliefs, especially their cultural and ethical beliefs. We must not only agree to disagree - we must advocate their cause as a blessed part of a free society. Vitriol must be saved for the war that ensues abroad - and unity at home is the only real security we can obtain."

.... and when you say "we must embrace our ugly differences." You are advocating that we become like them and sanction what they do ... sounds a lot like what the German people said and did during Hitler's regime.

NO THANKS ! !

and furthermore, I do not have a "virus in my heart".

[LynnTheDem]

16. In a word...NO.

I can criticize 2 people at the same time. bush is wrong. Lieberman is wrong.

Lieberman Democrats are not a solution; they're just more of the same problem.

It's not "party uber alles" for me.

[sendero]

17. I agree with the majority of what you say..

... and yet cannot bring myself to come to the conclusion that Leiberman deserves support.

It's not that I don't think he is a "good man", it is simply that we cannot afford appeasers and puppies at the present time.

If Lieberman were even slightly progressive, he could not go along with ANY of the significant policies of the Bush** administration. IMHO, folks like Lieberman are worse than having a Rep in the seat, at least with a Rep you know what you are getting. Poeple have elected a Dem who, on crucial issues, votes like a Rep. He provides cover and endorsement for policies that no Dem should be endorsing.

It is my fond hope that we can rid the party of folks like him. It's not about "connecting with the heartland", I'm all for that. But there is a way to do that without having your nose up Bush**s' ass 24/7, and Lieberman can't seem to figure that out.

[NervousRex]

18. Lieberman can go to hell!

and Zell Miller...and any other boot licking, power-hungry, sycophantic DINO's. I've hated Lieberman for a long time, but when Boosh stuck his tongue in Joementum's ear, I felt further justified in my disgust and loathing.

[Zuni]

19. Lieberman might be a jerk, but he is not an outright traitor like Zell

At least Lieberman supported Kerry in the election campaign and stayed a Democrat, even if his voting record has much to be desired

Zell Miller did everything he could for Bush. He is a wart on the ass of our Party (even if he is not really a member of the party)

[NervousRex]

24. Semantics...

of course you are correct, but it's just a matter of degree. I think that Joementum may actually be more dangerous than Zell, because at least Miller has played his hand, and no one doubts where he is coming from. However, with Lieberman, we have yet to see the depths of depravity to which he will sink....Making out with the Feuhrer on the floor of the House is just the beginning.

[BiggJawn]

20. So we should embrace Zell Miller next?

Sorry, Jowly Joe needs to go.

[w13rd0]

21. Lieberman...

...is very personable, and an excellent tipper. Cheney doesn't tip at all, he's a complete ass, and he complains about EVERYTHING.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. Lieberman is a traitor. Period. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. omfg! ..Lieberman was the only person bush gave a huge hug to last night

on his way into the chamber :puke: did you see it? Lieberman may be one of the 5 Dem's i heard mentioned that bush may "peel away from the Dem party to support and vote yes on his SS iniative"...also heard that "the 5 states bush* is now visiting to promote SS in are the states with Dem senators that bush feels confident will vote yes for his privatization of SS" FL, ND, and three other states :shrug:

[formernaderite]

28. No.....Sheila Jackson Lee did her yearly fawning too.

She sits there waiting on the aisle waiting for her fellow Texans hug and greet.

Let's all remember that these politicians are not vested in this stuff emotionally the way we are. To most of them after returning term after term....it's their job.

[MADem]

49. On his way out chimpy KISSED HIM...on the LIPS

Joe's vote for in favor of the torturer today tells me all I need to know about him. He needs to return to private life. He hasn't just jumped the shark, he's joined the sharks.

How he can live with himself, I have NO FUCKING IDEA. Joe makes a big deal of saying he's 'observant,' well, he needs to open his damn eyes and do some observing. Faith without works ain't shit in my book. Our country is in a dreadful state, and his continual apologias aren't helping.

[durablend]

25. D I N O

We don't need the likes of another * ass kisser.

[mrbill]

26. poop on joe........

n/t

[hlthe2b]

27. You say:"Democratic Party needs more Senators like Lieberman; elder men...

You say the "Democratic Party needs more Senators like Lieberman; elder men (yes, men - not because they have penises, but because they are the ones who have all the business and political experience of the past century)"


So, nice that you discount and stereotype every woman and non-white male in this country). That alone says it for me. Ahh, yes...hope lives eternal (the "Great White (male) Hope") :eyes::eyes::eyes:


Lieberman is hurting our party with his blind allegiance to conservative policies that he perceives benefit Israel, even at the expense of his own country. He may be a largely honorable man, but that is NOT the issue.

So, no, I do not take your message as "common sense" as a few here have said and the fact you feel the need to state that you are gay, from Texas, a former Evangelical minister, etc, etc, to somehow justify demeaning the role of women, racial and ethnic diverse members of congress, and the wide scope of progressive ideals in order to defend Joe Lieberman makes me wonder.... It really does.....

[Disturbed]

29. Is this rumor true?

Fox is hiring Joe Lieberman as a regular pundit?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. spot on!...and makes me wonder too!..sniff sniff...pheeeww

[adigal]

30. Why did Bush kiss him last night???

Because Bush can use him to make the dems fighting torture and for Soc. security look bad. That's why.

[oasis]

38. Bush will use him like he used Ted Kennedy to sell "No Child Left Behind".

Bush is a backstabbing snake.

[leesa]

32. Disagree. Now is EXACTLY the time to call these GOP supporters out

If we allow their behavior to be uncontested, it will continue and it will grow, as it has. We cannot afford to have appeasers in our midst. What's at stake is too large.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. "We must humble ourselves..." "We must capitulate..."

Neville Chamberlain lives.

You say the American People elected Bush and we must bend to their will.

The American people who voted for Bush and his policies were wrong.
The American people who support his policies are wrong.

Joining with them, humbling ourselves to them, capitulating to them, is also wrong.

The Germans "humbled" and "capitulated" to the majority that supported Hitler.

[Cascadian]

34. No. The Democratic Party DOES NOT need more Senators like Joe.

Sorry. I want to see Democrats who are fighters and those who will counter what the Neocon Bushites are doing not those who"go along to get along!" Democrats like Joe Lieberman are killing the Democratic Party. I am sure Lieberman comes across as personable and all that. He would make a better rabbi than a politican. But the main reason he is a target among most DUers is the fact that he comes across as a conservative and much of his Senate voting record reflects that.

It is also suspect that he was in favor of Clinton's impeachment while Bush's actions are doing more damage than what Clinton could have ever done.



John

[Joe Power]

35. He was excellent as Alf's "daddy"

His career has really gone downhill since then.

[ckramer]

36. Lieberman is a republican

[western mass]

37. Time to take out the trash...I'm takin about you, Joe!

But I'm sure you've got a nice corporate lobbying gig
lined up for the day after we throw you out...

[spanone]

39. LIEberman should do the honorable thing, cross the isle.

Even though we would lose another senate seat, I'd be glad to see him go.

[Larkspur]

40. This CT voter and Dem Town Committee person will NOT vote for Lieberman

in 2006. I'll vote Green if Lieberman is the Dem nominee in 2006 for his senate seat.

There is no way I'm every going to vote for pro-corporate, pro-apartheid, and pro-war Lieberman again.

[keopeli]

45. I can respect that, since he is your representative. I just hope...

...that he's not replaced by a Republican should more people begin to share this view.

You work to protect our country in CT and I'll do the same in WA.

Thanks for being on top of things out there!!!

Keo

[MadHound]

41. Sorry friend, but Lieberman is part of the problem

Not part of the solution. Rather than being a restraining factor on this misadministration, Joe has been right there, cheering them along ally the way. What we need on Capitcal Hill is more people who will actually stand up and oppose the man-chimp, not just yes men who will agree with anything Bush utters.

It is in part due to people like Lieberman that we've gotten ourselves into the mess we're in. We won't get out of this mess until people like him are out of power.

[keopeli]

47. I see your point. But wouldn't a Repub in his seat be even worse?

I'm trying to be realistic. Plus, I never suggested we support any of Bush*s policies. I simply suggest that we'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The onus is on us, the minority party, to build a broader appeal.

In time, hopefully we can work on those backward attitudes that plague so many politicians. But first we must take back our country! At this point, we can only do that with a broader appeal to Americans.

I don't say this out of ignorance. Lieberman won the Vice-Presidency over Dick Cheney in 2000. He does have an appeal to moderate Republicans obviously.

[NewJeffCT]

42. As a CT resident, I'm not a Lieberman fan, but...

He's not going anywhere and is too popular in Connecticut among Democrats, Independents & Republicans to have his seat threatened by anybody in the state. I don't think any more preferable & electable Democrats (Rosa DeLauro, John Larson or Dick Blumenthal) would dare challenge him, becauase if Lieberman lost a primary to somebody in the state, the Republican state heavyweights - Nancy Johnson & Chris Shays - would likely jump into the race the next day. Johnson or Shays would really give Larson, DeLauro or Blumenthal a battle.

With our limited resources, I think our efforts could be better spent elsewhere - I would rather work to defeat Rob Simmons in Connecticut's 2nd district than spend time on the pipe dream of defeating Lieberman.

The best way to get him out of the Senate may be to convince him to run for governor.

[HarrietBrown]

56. That's a good analysis--I really want Leiberman out because

as my senator, he does not represent me the way I want to be represented,and I know others who feel the same way. He absolutely sickens me--and someone in an earlier post was right: his behavior might cut it for a sen from the heartland, but not from CT. I think that everyone in CT who disagrees with him needs to let him know that on a regular basis--I hope he is getting lots of calls from disappointed and angry CT Dems. But I would also like to see Simmons out--he's my congressman, and I think that's do-able. I would hate to put someone like Larson up against him, lose, and have CT be without Larson's voice.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Fuck Liebermen.

My parents didn't know the damage he was capable of until I pointed it out to them. They got sold by the name and the wrapper, but never really looked closer to Lieberman's true loyalties.

[keopeli]

44. Thanks everyone for your responses.

I'm truly priveledged that so many of you felt compelled to respond.

I honor all of your views. I think the Democratic Party needs to be a big enough tent to envelop all of us. I believe that this is the only way currently to win national elections.

I could take the opportunity to rail on Lieberman now do demonstrate how much I agree with what many of you have said, though i would not go so far as to say 'traitor' or 'nazi'. But, frankly, I'd rather talk about how we can win back the affections of the bulk of Heartland Americans.

Some of you felt my self-revelations were a type of apology or justification. I assure you that was not the case. I simply wanted to reduce the amount of anonimity that is inherent in writing these messages. You can like or hate any of these things about myself. But, but telling you a bit about me, I hoped to allow you to put some of my thoughts in perspective.

You won't find me running to defend Lieberman. However, you WILL find me avoiding holding grudges against him or being provocative towards him. I prefer to reserve my vitrol for the true serpents.

As for Lieberman's cozy relationship with Bush*, I say thank god. The fact is that he is NOT Zell Miller. I believe in the adage that you keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The Democrats need a couple of Bush*-friendly folk to sniff around their inner chamber. This is a Civil War for all I'm concerned, and we need to be the smarter army.

Lastly, my comments regarding elder men being absent from politics says nothing about gender bias. If you reacted, I suggest that you may be a little sensitive. If you are old enough to remember the 70s and earlier, then you are well aware that those generations were lead almost entirely by men politically. That generation of men has gone mum. Alternately, the women of that age continue to play much the same role that they always did which was running everything in life except business, government and church. I would LOVE for elder women to step up to the plate!!! I'm proud that Washington State now is the first state ever to have a female governor and two female senators sitting at the same time!!! I wish to god our congress was filled with women!!! How much better I believe are world would be if this was the case. But, if that happened, it would be a surprise, because it is uncharacteristic of women who are now in their 70s. Men in their 70s, on the otherhand, are conspicuously absent from public life. And, of course I am speaking in broad terms. Of course there are exceptions. But I must speak broadly if I am to avoid the microscope that exposes our weaknesses and instead emphasize our strengths. I would rather focus the microscope on the thieves who have robbed our country!

Again, thanks for all your messages. I'm taking each of them to heart.

Keo

[UdoKier]

46. Your post makes no sense at all.

And attacking Lieberman is not attacking "one of us". As far as I am concerned, he is a bought-and paid GOP infiltrator. He CONSTANTLY works for their agenda and goes on right-wing talk shows to validate THEIR side of every issue. He constantly betrays the party by siding with the GOP. I think he's just awful, and if you think Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to this country, I can't imagine why you would stick up for one of his most eager sycophants.

[keopeli]

50. Yes, he does many of the things you suggest.

When I say something like "one of us", I don't mean Dems vs. Repubs. I mean Americans vs. the Putsch leaders.

He's an opportunist and I disagree with a lot of his positions.

But, he's not Bush*!

Lieberman is not my senator. If he was, I might work to replace him. But by focusing our energies on him we are restricting what we can focus on Bush* and his cabal of felons.

I am simply suggesting that we need a broader tent because the only thing that will revive our Democracy is with a clear majority of Americans joining our chorus.

[Zhade]

48. Sorry, I think we live in two different realities.

And I may be mistaken, but it sounds like you supported the war.

[keopeli]

52. Nope, I marched against it and would do the same again today.

And, it's my impression that we share a more common reality than you might believe. I do, however, acknowledge that there are at least two different realities currently afflicting the zeitgeist of our country, and one of them is driven by propoganda and treason.

You and I, I believe, live in the real world.

What we need to do is get MORE people living in the real world. I suggest that attacking Lieberman is foolish at a time like this, even if you are correct in your disagreements with Lieberman.

Keo

[Zhade]

55. Well, it read differently. But it's late, so never mind that bit.

I still disagree. Lieberman is giving aid and comfort to the enemies of democracy. No quarter shall be given by me to any such persons. Bottom line: I don't like or tolerate enablers of fascism. That stance is utterly non-negotiable.

[Hissyspit]

51. I direct you to what Lieberman said yesterday: Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1561817

I have no respect for him.

[keopeli]

54. Thanks, Hissyspit. I don't watch CNN anymore, so I hadn't heard

The problem is that, if you are going to fault Lieberman with the Iraq Tragedy, you have to fault the entire Congress, including all but 1 or 2 Democrats.

Perhaps you're correct to have lost any respect you may have had for him. But, wouldn't it be better to focus on the positive broad appeal of the Democratic Party than to rip at the margins? Wouldn't it be more productive to tolerate some more moderate Democrats - even conservative Democrats - than to press ourselves ever more toward one side?

In any case, I think it's fine you have no respect for him. Still, I encourage all of us to be more tolerant of conservatives so that we can wake these Heartland Americans up to the truth of what has happened to our country? If we can accomplish that, it will be much easier to call any hypocrites out and rid our system of such perversions.

[harpboy_ak]

53. He's a Loserman

"I respect everyone's right to criticize Lieberman. In fact, I would probably agree with many of the criticisms. But this is not the time to criticize ourselves".

No, I'm sorry, now IS the time. We need to criticize the repugnican lite losers like Lieberman, who is basically in the Senate to shill for the Connecticutt-based insurance industry and other corporate finance companies. He represents Big Business well, but that's not what Democrats should do.

I've thought for a long time that Loserman should just join the Repugnicans and stop faking being a Democrat.