Bush's Plan --- the govt keeps 80% of your "personal" $$$$'s (Wash Post)

[cthrumatrix]

snip

If a worker sets aside $1,000 a year for 40 years, and earns 4 percent annually on investments, the account would grow to $99,800 in today's dollars, but the government would keep $78,700 -- or about 80 percent of the account. The remainder, $21,100, would be the worker's.

snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59136-2005Feb2.html

This is ALL you need to know. You don't get what you put in. The govt

takes 3% off the top and the original contribution . You get anything

above that.


It's a rip-off.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. thanks

for the info and the link. I've bookmarked this thread, and will use your argument when I talk with younger folks.

[cthrumatrix]

2. AND ...when you die .... your beneficiaries get nothing (READ people)

Any funds that remained available under these annuities after death would go to the Social Security program; the money could not be inherited. While that would assure retirees a monthly check while they live, it also could undercut what polling shows is one of the most persuasive arguments on behalf of personal accounts - that they can be inherited.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBEOOZ9Q4E.html

you put in all your life...end of retirement it goes into an annuity for lifetime payments

If you die the next day ----- Govt get's all your money.

[cthrumatrix]

3. shrub lied in the SOTU ...he said your family get's the$$$...impeachment!

[WillowTree]

4. Ummmm..........no

It's not quite that bad. The government would only keep the 3%. The worker would keep the original investment plus any amount of the investment profit above and beyond the 3% that the money would have "earned" had it gone directly into the SS fund. In other words, they would keep 3% of the profits only.

Assuming that the market didn't go belly-up and the funds invested didn't lose money, that is.

______________________________________________

Strike that. Working on brain death here.

What I should have said is that the worker would receive the same SS benefit on retirement that he/she would have had he/she stayed in the traditional plan, PLUS the additional amount of interest earned above the 3%.

DUH!

[ashling]

6. And that 3% will fund

another tax cut for the top . . . well, you get the picture.

[cthrumatrix]

7. uuuuuhhhh no...the worker get's what is above 3% return..... read

[cthrumatrix]

8. read here...here is the text..... you don't get the total % return

The plan is more complicated. Under the proposal, workers could invest as much as 4 percent of their wages subject to Social Security taxation in a limited assortment of stock, bond and mixed-investment funds. But the government would keep and administer that money. Upon retirement, workers would then be given any money that exceeded inflation-adjusted gains over 3 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59136-2005Feb2.html

[Donailin]

5. I think the press conference with the "administration official" was

posted in William Pitt's FYI yesterday. It's worth reading, folks should check it out.

[cthrumatrix]

12. the MSM better start "fessing up"..... the president is selling a "pile"

[cthrumatrix]

9. in addition...when you die....your heirs get ZERO.....read this

Any funds that remained available under these annuities after death would go to the Social Security program; the money could not be inherited. While that would assure retirees a monthly check while they live, it also could undercut what polling shows is one of the most persuasive arguments on behalf of personal accounts - that they can be inherited.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBEOOZ9Q4E.html

[LizW]

13. Then how could Bush say that you could

leave the money to your children and grandchildren? Did he just lie about this? Or is it more weasley twisting of the facts?

I ask because it is hard to get my rightie friends to believe that Bush would lie. (I know. :eyes:) When I said, "If you die, the government keeps your money." They said, "NO! The President said you could leave it to your children!"

Isn't it bizarre that will believe Bush before their own friends that they have known for years?

[cthrumatrix]

14. the facts are in a life annuity (and in the press) when you die ...heirs

do not get any money...it all goes back to soc sec.

[Sugarcoated]

16. I'm getting the same argument.

They say he actually said in his speech you can leave to your hiers. I know he's lying through his teeth, he's trying to sell his pile of shit, but it's hard to convince my rightie friends.

[jab105]

18. I think what he said was that the PROFITS (you know, because everyone

is going to make millions off of privitization)that you have left over when you die can go to your grandkids...

Dems should cream him with this...don't think I should hold my breath...

OP-ED time people!!

[elehhhhna]

10. kick for a good catch!

[cthrumatrix]

11. the truth is - the govt is skimming your money +3% and giving

you a miniscule "life payment"...when you die your heirs get ZERO.

[Karenina]

15. KICK!

:kick:

[Sugarcoated]

17. Here's an email from a Repub friend of mine:

If I average $50,000 per year in income for 40 years, then by the time I retire I will have put $124,000 into SSI, and my employer will have matched it. That's $248,000 that I have 'saved for my retirement'.

Under current SSI payback rules, if I retire at age 67 (full retirement age) and draw my max benefit (about $1,200/month), I will have to live until about age 85 just to recoup my investment - with NO earnings growth. If, as expected, the government is only able to pay me 75% of my benefit, that changes my break even age to 90.

That doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Give ME my money and let ME decide how to invest it for MY retirement. I could simply stick 6.2% of my wages in a savings account at 1% and do better than that.

Is this true? Or is it just RW cooked?

[Sugarcoated]

19. He makes it sound good, but I'm skeptical

I'm so math-disabled :cry:

[cthrumatrix]

20. the falsehood in the privatization scam is "this is your savings acct.

the govt allows $1000 a year contribution.... no excess and no access.

you will get (in a liftime monthly payment) only the amount of your portfolio that performed above a 3% average. When you die...your heirs will see nothing.

If it performs at 2%...you see nothing!


It's like comparing eggs/apples.


It's not what chimpan is pushing. It's nothing more than a way for them to reduce payments.