Tales Of The Closet: Why We're Not Going Back

[Plaid Adder]

I scanned the text of the State of the Union address--I don't have 90 minutes to burn watching that--and found this:

"Because marriage is a sacred institution and the foundation of society, it should not be re-defined by activist judges. For the good of families, children, and society, I support a constitutional amendment to protect the institution of marriage."

That's just perfect. And it's not even an election year!

Because it is clearly going to be open season on GBLT Americans *all the time* now, and because I believe that the ultimate goal of the people pushing this bullshit is to drive us all back into the closet, I thought I would come here and start this thread and see what happens: I invite all my fellow GBLT DUers to post a story about what life was like for them in the closet, and why they're never going back no matter how bad it gets. It will be useful for us to remind ourselves what we are now at risk of losing; and maybe it will be helpful to our straight brethren and sistren to see why it matters.

In a way I'm not in a good position to start because I was not really in the closet very long; I was never good at it. Even during the first six months of our relationship, when I was just coming out to myself and terrified of what would happen if people found out, I never did any of the things that a prudent person would have done to conceal the fact that I was in love. The worst and longest-lasting part of being the closet, for me, had to do with my family. I didn't tell my family about my partner for 2 1/2 years, because I was afraid they would stop paying my college tuition. I don't think that I actually needed to be afraid of that, but because I was, I spent two and a half years hiding the evidence and, when I had to, lying. That's the one thing I hated most about the closet, and the one thing I am never going to be willing to do again: pretend that my relationship doesn't exist. It's humiliating, and it's corrosive--to your relationship with your partner, obviously, but also to your relationship with the people you're hiding her from.

I got lucky. I found out about myself at a time and place where it was easy enough for me to start telling people. I am interested to see what other people who weren't that lucky have to say about what the closet was like, and why they're not going back.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. If these radicals were so concerned about marriage

being a 'sacred institution', then they should be much more concerned about the high rate of divorce, especially among fundie christians. Divorce is a much bigger threat to 'the sacred institution of marriage' than any GLBT person will ever be.

[Rockholm]

2. Ban Divorce!

What assholes.

[Not Me]

4. Reagan

was divorced...and remarried Nancy, who delivered their first child 7 months later.

Traditional family values.

[noonwitch]

14. Pat Robertson knocked his wife up before they were married, too.

I don't know if that was before he dodged the draft (Korea) or after.

[KnowerOfLogic]

33. Yes. This should be raised by dems every single time the 'Protect Marriage

cannard is played.

[Karenina]

45. What about Newt?

"Contract for America" as he betrayed his WIFE laying in a hospital bed suffering from cancer???

[donheld]

50. It was really a "Contract on America"

Newt gave it the kiss of death.

[auburngrad82]

40. Elizabeth Dole broke up Bob's first marriage

She and the Bobster were doing the nasty and Bob's first wife found out and divorced him. Family values...

[Not Me]

3. My coming out was not that difficult, but the sad part

is that I waited 47 years to do it.
When I look back (with the benefit of hindsight) I should never have let the world hold me back. What a terrible waste.

One of the things I will fight--tooth and nail-- is the efforts on the part of the right to repress and intimidate young people back into the closet.

I think (in fairly short order) we will witness a healthy, balanced approach to sexuality coming from progressive countries like Canada and Western Europe. Let's learn from it.

[dddem]

6. I disagree that the first 47 years of your life was a waste

Without your insight and perspective, you would be so much less effective, and so much less passionate about what is right.
No time is a waste when you can apply your experience to help another. I believe that's why we are here, to learn and help each other. As a straight woman, I need people like you to help me understand and to empathize. People like you help me to learn how I can help others. Thank you.

[despairing optimist]

49. Punish adulterers. Throw them in jail and legalize recreational drugs

That way the prison industry remains intact, and may even need to grow!

[Mend]

5. I saw on my baseball chat list

a posting that said "democrats are the homosexual party"....how fun! Hope no one goes back in the closet and our coalition of the humans holds fast. Or else first they will come for you, then Jews, then the rest of us for whatever reason.....my belief in evolution ought get me into a camp.

[auburngrad82]

41. I guess that would make the GOP the pedophile party

There are numerous pedophiles in the GOP. And at least one serial killer (Ted Bundy), and at least one rapist (Strom Thurmond) and at least one closeted gay (David Dreier) and at least...

[Lerkfish]

7. Unfortunately, for our gay brothers and sisters, here's what I see...

reduction of liberties, benefits and rights. To start. Then a national list to identify gay people and prevent them from getting health insurance, employment. Then gays will have to wear an identifying badge so "right thinking people" can quickly redirect them to "gay only" water fountains and the backs of buses, probably a pink felt triangle.
Then, it will be considered cheaper and easier to set up camps and detention centers for those who refuse the straight way of life. Then, the final solution.

Then, once they're rid of our gay brothers and sisters, and they have the mechanism in place and functioning smoothly, they'll move on to the next group in line they wish to elimnate.

about halfway down the list they'll finally get to the heart of the matter and start exterminating liberals and dissenters.

By this time, with no one left to stop them, they'll have taken over the whole world and forced it to bow to their absolute control. I'll be dead by then, thankfully.

sorry, just very depressed this morning, and feeling completely powerless.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Only one problem with a "final solution" for gays

They'll keep being born. Yanno? Many from religious parents. From preacher sperm. From conservative cum (that which winds up in an effective place rather than the usual location - the palms of their hands).

Someday they'll learn. We is them and they is We and We is We and We're the same. Humans.

[soleft]

8. Suicidal debilitating depression

11 Years ago I developed severe clinical major depression. Only partly believing it to be a result of genenic chemical imbalance, I went searching for the psychological reasons. It was grueling, it was dark, at times it seemed hopeless.

The sweet, beautiful irony - and the reason I believe that you can never give up because you never know what life is going to hand you - a child born in an opposite sex marriage is what made me hold on and fight to discover the truth.

Which is I am a gay person who was so unfathomly repressed and terrified I didn't even know I was in the closet. That fear and repression came from the belief that if I was gay I would be hated by my family, society, and myself.

As it turns out, my family, as flawed Bush loving Republicans they are, do not hate me, in fact they've been really - do I dare use the word - loving - okay, somewhat loving to my partner.

Society, at least the portion that believes I'm the cause of all things evil, continues to make me horribly sad and piss the shit out of me.

But I do not hate myself. I am gay. And 100% depression free.

[Plaid Adder]

9. I'm glad you got out of it, soleft

And I'm glad your family is supporting you to the best of their ability. I fortunately missed the depression part. My partner, however, went through a very bad depression when she was in high school, right before she worked out that she was gay. I think it's a very common experience. I remember the first time she told me about it and how scared I was to think that if she hadn't worked it out, she might have done something to herself then and then I would never have had the chance to know her. I'm glad you made it.

C ya,

THe Plaid Adder

[soleft]

11. Thanks, and I hope you decide to stay out of retirement

Your Zero Tolerance article is great!

:thumbsup:

[hangemhigh]

10. As an "Honorary Lesbian"

which is what my gay friends call me, I can only tell you first hand about the heartbreak of being there for my friends over the years when they have come out. Not that I would have had it any other way, mind you, but the fucking HELL my friends went through-the shame, the family bullshit, keeping it hidden from employers and from the community and from church. Tears, anguish, lots of "numbing out" behaviors. One friend came out at work (after being on the board in a very high profile position) to learn that she was working in a company that cherished and embraced her and has literally re-written the book on how gay employees are treated. Her parents, however, were/are ashamed of her. Another is in constant mode to make sure he and his partner aren't discovered by his "family values" company. There are other stories, but the facts are generally the same. Whether you are gay or you love and are friends with someone who is, it's a goddamned shame and an ongoing heartbreak to see such torment over that which in my estimation shouldn't matter or register on anyone's meter at all. As for gay marriage, I once read John Spong, former Episcopal Bishop of Newark who stood up for and continues to stand up for gay partnerships. I'm paraphrasing, but the gist of the quote was, "Hey, you people ask me to bless bridges and meat markets and animals. Don't think for a minute I am not going to bless two human beings committed to loving one another."

[Greybnk48]

12. This is a bit off topic.

But this issue affects all of us and it's an outrage. I'm straight but I have (or had) a gay uncle, who I dearly loved, and I have a lesbian niece and a lesbian sister-in-law. I would bet that everyone here has a close friend, a relative or a coworker that they admire who also happens to be gay. Some of you may not know that you have gay family members--yet. I'm a bit older and the one's I have mentioned were "not gay" 5 years ago and 15 years ago respectively. Keep that in mind.

As I said, I'm a bit older and remember the civil rights movement. Anyone who supports this witch hunt is no better than the people back in the 60's who continued to insist that Blacks did not have a right to equal treatment and it would be the end of our society if that was granted. I cannot for the life of me understand how a gay couple threatens my marriage.

[auburngrad82]

42. I have a gay uncle, a gay cousin, numerous gay friends,

gay co-workers. I'm straight but if they can't get married then I don't want to be married. I've been "shacking up" for about 10 years with my significant other and there are two reasons we don't get married. First, if gays can't get married then we can't get married either. Fair is fair. Second, a right-wing co-worker told us that we are going to Hell for "fornicating out of wedlock." I take that almost as a dare. If not being married will send me to Hell, then I can't get married because I want to see if this asshole is right.

From what I understand from the Bible, if you believe in God (and/or Jesus) then you are forgiven and can get into Heaven. So how does shacking up or being gay or living in sin exempt you from forgiveness?

[hfojvt]

44. depends on your theology of course

every church will have a different answer.
The general would be: continuing embrace of a mortal sin shows that your faith in Jesus is not sincere. You are not only supposed to follow your conscience, but to study the word of God and the teachings of the church in order to "reform" your conscience. You are not only supposed to believe in Jesus, but to acknowledge Him as "Lord" which implies that when He says "jump", you say "how high?"

[Karenina]

46. Jesus never said

jack shit about "gayness," put mah hand on da Bible.

[nostamj]

13. after YEARS of denial and depression

I came out as soon as I 'owned' my life. that is, as soon as I graduated college and was no longer dependant on my parents.

in my twisted-at-the-time mind, I was sure they would cut me off and disown me.

i was wrong. they weren't particularly surprised or devastated. go figure.

the time was pre-AIDS and the height of DISCO, so I had a LOT of fun before the plague years were upon us. (by then I was working for a gay publisher in NYC and on the cutting edge of AIDS reporting at the beginning of the epidemic and response)

the thought of a return of the 'closet' in scary. I watch CLOSELY the efforts being made to demonize anything gay. from the plans to remove ALL BOOKS with references to homosexuality from public libraries to the inane and insane homosexualization of cartoon characters.

these people MAY not believe they can remove all gay folk from the population, but they DO believe they can make them invisible. I expect to see less and less POSITIVE depictions of gay lives across the media, along with odious attempts to rehabilitate gay-bashers like 20/20's shameless hit job on Matthew Steppard.

and, I'm too old for this shit!

[libnnc]

15. My years as a garment bag...

I spent my teen years (from the time I was 14) until I graduated from junior college, in the closet. Most straight people don't know the kind of isolation and loneliness that LGBT folks go through. Especially gay/lesbian people who live in small town areas. Getting out of rural areas is the only way many gays can survive. I spent my teen years counting the days until I could get out of Dodge. I rarely dated guys at all (I was a band geek). And when I did date it was only to keep up appearances. I cried myself to sleep many, many nights; finding refuge in Rita Mae Brown novels and the occasional Lifetime TV movie that dealt with gay/lesbian issues. I had virtually no role models and no emotional outlets at all.

I kept my secret until I was 18 years old and at junior college. That's when I made my confession to a very understanding professor/Dean of Students. She advised me not to tell too many people (especially my mom). But a couple of years later I did spill the beans to my mother and our relationship has been very strained ever since. I've been out for over 15 years now. I'm not going back to the loneliness and isolation I knew as a teenager. I will not live a lie just to make straight folks feel more comfortable.

That's my story.

[Plaid Adder]

21. I was a band geek too!

What instrument did you play?

Glad you made it out, libnnc,

The Plaid Adder

[libnnc]

22. Saxophone

started on Alto ended up on Tenor (damn that thing was heavy).

I was Drum Major in marching band my senior year. :D

Thanks Plaid. I really enjoy reading your posts. You're a smart cookie.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. If you have straight friends who are not comfortable with you

I have to ask ..... are they friends?

Friends don't tolerate friends suffering.

[BeFree]

16. Love = Sex

That's the tunnel vision inherent in our society.

Being as the society is all hung up over SEX, you see how the discrimination arises, eh?

Most people keep SEX in the closet. Not just gays, or porno queens or prostitutes: We can't even publicly educate our kids about SEX.

Do not feel as if you are being singled out so much as that you are trapped in that tunnel visioned society.

Just be glad you found someone you love, and cease worrying what society thinks. Be a good example and eventually society will change, and that's what conservatives fear the most: Change.

[hunter]

19. Yeah, trapped in the tunnel and spit out dead...

You can't just "cease worrying what society thinks." There has got to be some push -- there has got to be people who DEMAND and fight for their rights. Otherwise the people who don't have the resources to fight are simply smothered.

[BeFree]

20. Rights

Sure, keep pushing for your rights, just as blacks continue to do so, or Asians, or kids, or women, or Eskimos. It has always been, and will always be, a struggle to be a part of change.

Gays are not special in this regard, accept that, be glad of who you are and continue to demand your rights, just realize you are in a long line.

[TWiley]

17. The Heterosexuals need to pay attention also.

The repukes are really talking about state sponsored discrimination. The defination of who is discriminated against can change more easily if these bigots are not stopped cold in their tracks.

This issue concerns ideas of religious morality, and nothing more. It is wrong only because "Gawd" says so.

Those who support the rodent are forcing the farmers view upon all of us as they attempt to rewrite the social contract. The government is the farmer, and we are his crop. Farmers are not intrested in anything that will not reproduce, they apply their genetic concepts use in animal breeding to humas which provides the basis of racism. It was the farmers who enslaved the Blacks, it is the farmers who exploit the Mexicans today. The "farm vision" for America seperates us all into classes which define our purpose. The pine will never be as valuable as the oak.

Am I insane? Well maybe so. Here is a couple links for those who are interested.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3034092&mesg_id=3034092&page=

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=507

[Stinky The Clown]

18. I am in an industry that has a higher than average number of gay people

and have associated with them for many, many years.

I say "associated". That's not at all true. They're my friends. Some are very close friends. "Come to dinner at our house this Saturday" friends. "Let's go to watch the Orioles play" friends.

My wife is in a different business, but in hers there are even more gay people than in mine. Gay people are simply a part of our lives.

I am a restaurant designer. My wife is a pianist and a modern and ballet dancer.

I know I speak for my wife ..... we love them and we fear for them. And we stand with them. Proud.

:grouphug:

[TWiley]

23. If there truly were living Christians,

You and your wife would be among them. Even if you did not go to church.

It is a terrible fact that modern American Christianity is rearing a very ugly head. Soon, anyone who does not go to church will be persecuted by them. Next on the list will be those who go to the "wrong Christian Church".

I have been to rallies to support gay rights, and to a protest when that butt-hole Phelps came to town. I do not have any "come to dinner this Saturday" gay friends, but I do have some close acquaintances; chat at the coffee bar type of relationships.

It can be dangerous to even associate with or support gays at times here. It is like the Bible Belt stories when whites were assaulted for being "Nigger Lovers" by the religious people there. They use the same language.

We have extremist RW religious groups in our area, and there have been violent attacks on Gay people. They mostly do not get reported in the news. One letter to the editor complained that his close homosexual friend answered a knock on the door, and was beaten senseless by these folks. After a lengthy hospital stay, he wrote the letter to complain that the police refused to even look into it.

It sounds shocking, but this story is true.

[Stop_the_War]

25. Can they really declare war on 10% of the American people? n/t

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[Vinca]

27. Stay out of the closet . . . that's an order!

I'm an old, married, heterosexual woman, but trust me, there's nothing wrong with playing on "the other team." Personally, I find it very inconvenient not to know someone's life partner. I don't want to invite Mr. and Mrs. Joe Blow to the house and later find it's Joe and Jerry. This whole thing is such a mystery to me. I'm a woman and have had a lesbian friend for years. Why on earth should I care? I don't want to sleep with her and she doesn't want to sleep with me. Are the Republicans just overrun with homophobes???

[Stinky The Clown]

28. "Are the Republicans just overrun with homophobes???"

In a word ...... yes.

[dsc]

29. My tale

I was on choir tour during college at a hotel in Virginia Beach. I had finally begun to crack about keeping the secret and had actually told a person or two. One of them was a big mouth and was telling other people. I decided then and there my parents deserved better than having a gay child and set off to drown myself in the hotel pool. I bought a six pack of beer and opened one up. My goal was to drink the whole thing, dive off the board into the pool, and just ease on out with the whole thing appearing to be an accident. Then it came to me. I couldn't do it. I had incriminating evidence back at school and no way to get rid of it. It was before the age of fax and email and I had no way to call. A straight friend talked me down and I survived the night.


Of course the blabber mouth told, and my friends stood by me. I look back on that night and wonder what the Hell I was thinking. Being in the closet is rough. I am not out at work though I don't lie like I did back then (inventing girlfriends etc.) But, I would never want to be totally in the closet again. And if I leave my current district it will be over this. I just won't go back to those days when I was a nervous wreck trying to keep lie A and lie B straight.

We are in the midst of a backlash, but I for one, won't go quietly into that good night.

[KnowerOfLogic]

30. The danger is definitely for the young, who think they're evil and all

alone and don't know what to do. No child should have to go through that just to cater to the fear and ignorance of bigots. It is up to US to make sure that we don't go back.

[dsc]

32. Yeah

It was at once a powerful motivator to work my ass off (to somehow be good enough to counter balance that) and just the most depressing weight. I never understood why I was the way I was and that no matter how much I prayed it wouldn't change. There should really be a special place in Hell for those who found those Exodus type ministries which give false 'hope' that one can change. I was always convinced I just didn't want it badly enough.

[Plaid Adder]

35. Yeesh. I'm glad your friends were there, dsc.

It's scary hearing the stories about how close people came to suicide. I'm glad you made it, dsc!

The Plaid Adder

[dsc]

36. Thanks

BTW Your article was amazing. I wish I had an eigth the talent that you have in that regard. You have a great gift for linking events.

[Zhade]

38. Great post, thanks for sharing.

Some of my own experiences are still too hard to discuss. I'm a chicken that way.

[KnowerOfLogic]

31. The worst thing is the invisibility of *other* GLBTs, when everyone is in

the closet. You think you're the only one, and that makes it very hard to develop a healthy identity or any sense of belonging. It also allows the gay-haters to spread whatever lies they want to about gays, because no one is out there as a visible example that their lies aren't true. We've already seen since the election, various media outlets censoring, or otherwise removing images of gays; and pressure continues to be applied to allow and 'respect' anti-gay speech in mainstream media or public forums, while at the same time to curtail any explicit support for equality and tolerance. Bottom line: the trajectory is not looking good right now, but i think eventually the RW haters will be discredited, and we will get back on the path to equality.

[geniph]

34. I'm pretty openly bisexual,

but even for me - married to a man - it was still awkward to go to my first LGBT event as an "out" bisexual. It happened to be joining the Seattle Lesbian and Gay Chorus and performing in public with them. I also march with them at Pride, and at the Democratic Convention, I attended all the LGBT events (someone has to represent the B's!). It was scary at first, but there was a moment at one of the LGBT caucuses at the Convention when they asked each state's LGBT delegates to stand. The whole room was in tears before we got to my state (Washington) - it was awesomely powerful to see the delegations standing proud and unafraid.

They might come for Bert & Ernie & Spongebob first, but they'll come for the out gays next, then the bisexuals like me, then the nonconforming straights. "We must hang together, or we shall assuredly hang separately." Human rights are a line in the sand - we must draw the line at discrimination and bigotry of any kind.

*Applause* for your Zero Tolerance article, by the way. It was excellent.

[Zhade]

37. I'm only halfway out.

I'm bisexual (hard to come out when even some gays and lesbians don't believe you exist). Mom knows, my 24-year-USAF-vet-Special-Ops-Dad doesn't. A few at work quietly know and support me (though the very first person I came out to was a buddy I later was shocked to learn is a Freeper type. He "hated my sin". Joy.)

I want to be all out, but damn, not a lot of protection, even here in SoCal. My company is owned by a certain rightwing media baron who isn't really pro-gay. Hate's getting thicker these days, too.

It's a shame, really. I've never even been to a gay bar, and I'm 3 years after having admitted to myself that I also like boys! And I live near West Hollywood!

Frustrating, is what it is.

[davsand]

39. HeteroSexism can be cured.

Honest, it can.

I really think that for a lot of people, just knowing someone who is openly g/l/b/t and forming some kind of relationship with them can change that entire attitude. I think a lot of our "isms" are based on a fear of the unknown or a fear of something previously unencountered. Gay is no exception to that.

Think about this: If the only understanding you had of color came from a guy who couldn't see blue/ green, how much would you understand about the beauty of the world? Similarly, if the only "knowledge" you had of G/L/B/T people was based off what some evangelist told you--how would you see the world?

I honestly think that a retreat to the closet by our brothers and sisters hurts us all--everyone in our society--because it deprives us of the opportunity to form relationships and learn.

I have seen the impact of "coming out" first hand. I've seen my gay friends lose family and friends when they establish an identity. I have also seen families grow closer once there is nothing hidden.

I understand it completely--the fear of coming out. I joke about being in the "broom closet" but even that is no small thing. Sexuality and faith--they are two things that are deeply felt, and impossible to ignore. Yet, at 45 I still don't choose to share my religion with a lot of people.

In part, I fear rejection, but in part I fear violence in today's atmosphere. I have been rejected by people I cared about, and I have been faced with the entire "coming out" talk with new people in my life. Whatever my motives, I still debate daily on how to say things--so as to not out myself. I still have to play certain roles--just so people aren't freaked out by the fact that I am a pagan.

I urge everyone to hang onto the faith in our fellow humans. No matter your secret--you can conquer it. No matter what you feel you must hide--don't retreat. The only way to open that closet door is to set an example for the ones who follow you. I'm trying to do that. I hope you will too.



Laura

[Karenina]

43. In my twenties

Included in my personal top 10 "I HATE YOUR GUTS" list were men who deceived women about their sexuality and used them for "cover." I issued a few ultimatums even as I PROVIDED COVER for dear friends who required it. I lost a soul mate to suicide and it was a DEVASTING WASTE of an incredible spirit and talent. As I grew older I gained a deeper understanding that my hatred was misdirected.

The "closet" serves NO ONE. It's destructive and STUPID.

[dsc]

47. a Kick for Alan Keyes' daughter

[KissMeKate]

48. Im in and out of the closet

Its hard as hell trying to fight that battle day after day- Ive come out to most of my family, and moderate friends, but coming out at work is impossible- people obsess about it and stop thinking of me as a person- I become "the bi nurse".

Its exhausting- so I have learned to sit down and shut up like a good girl- but im not happy about it.

I cant imagine having to hide being gay- at least I was able to marry the person I love. Im thankful for that.