Is it time to GET WHILE THE GETTING'S GOOD?

[SmartBomb]

It's obvious the will of the people is not a factor in the Bush agenda. He pretty much stands there and tells us what's going to happen next, like it or not. He doesn't care what you think or how you feel, he is without a doubt, a dictator.

Lately the hairs on the back of my neck have been standing up. Do I take heed? Are you torn between your rational side; "relax, It could never happen here", and your paranoid side; "Get out before it's too late!"?

[gorbal]

1. Nah

Let's not be over paranoid, they like us that way. Chances are you'll be struck by lightning or die in a car crash before homeland security picks you up and holds you for questioning.

Let's not let them rule us by fear.

[SmartBomb]

4. Another question

Do you think this is as bad as it's going to get? Because as far as I'm concerned, it borders on the intolerable right now.

[hootinholler]

2. Not for me it isn't...

Are you torn between your rational side; "relax, It could never happen here", and your paranoid side; "Get out before it's too late!"?

I'm here for the fight. I (my family) have way too much invested in this nation to turn my back on her. If you go, be sure to send lawyers, guns and money.

-Hoot

[Tyler Durden]

3. Uhh, YES???

If you need any further basis for comparison, try re-watching "Schindler's List," "The Pianist," or "Life is Beautiful."

They probably won't have Ovens here, but do you feel like waiting around to find out? Besides, you're just as dead if a winger shoots you on the street or a Fascist Government gasses you in a camp.

[gorbal]

6. Okay just let them win if that is how you are

You could at least wait until they start drafting people, it's easy to understand draft-dodging.

Maybe you can just make a new country"within" this one instead-

http://alterinfra.blogspot.com/

[SmartBomb]

7. Don't they also win if they bankrupt me and strand me in their

Orwellian Police State?

[gorbal]

13. Did they do it already?

Republicans are probably loving the idea of a mass Democratic migration to Canada. I'm sticking around to fight the good fight until I know it's fruitless, because the only way to get them out is to vote them out.

Here's a site for people who really want to go-

http://www.canadianalternative.com/

[leanin_green]

27. I'm stayin' too, but. . .

it's clear you haven't figured out what that fight will entail. Don't close your eyes to the truth of the 04 election. Your vote means nothing anymore. It can be negated and manipulated by the dick-tator. Our votes are a thing of nostalgia now. I'm not sure what the fight will be or how it will present itself, but it's coming, and it's not at the voting booth.

[gorbal]

33. I have figured out more than you know

I have sat throught the endless conversations about fraud in the last election. My personal evaluation is that there was definately a case of voter suppression and fraud in some areas, but that doesn't necessarily mean that will be the case in the next election.

[smirkymonkey]

24. Yep, that's why I am getting together my paperwork to apply

for Italian citizenship. I want to be ready when I feel we have reached the point of no return.

It doesn't have to be concentration camps and ovens. There are things worse than death - like living in a hellish nighmare that won't end and from which there is no escape.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KayLaw]

12. I worry about that

Isn't there a part of Patriot Act II that we're not allowed to read? I wonder if we'll be allowed to keep our weapons.

[Orsino]

8. Canada's already on the agenda...

...as soon as the house sells.

[CrispyQ]

9. I think it will be more like a return to slavery.

We will work for free for the corporate/state masters. We will have no rights, no health care, no recourse & no income, no free time. Our corporate masters will house us in 'dormitories' where we will be served sub-standard food, & have only corporate approved entertainment. Of course, by then the 40 hour work week will be long gone & we will be so tired that sleep will be our best entertainment -- & our only escape. And we will be the fortunate ones. The others will go into the military industrial complex where they will risk their 'meaningless' lives for the corporate state in never-ending war to take over the world.

It's very bleak. I don't have much hope. But then I think that at some point, the pendulum has to start swinging back the other way.

Heavy sigh . . . time to go read some fiction.

[KayLaw]

15. Not to tell you what to do, but

Maybe you should write some fiction, a sort of cautionary tale. I've had similar thoughts about company housing, the company store, etc.

:hi:

[bobbieinok]

18. in last 40+ year lots of sci-fi stories written with these elements.....

those who advocate RW policies should have read sci-fi when younger...

....or maybe they did?? didn't Newt read a lot of sci-fi??

[KayLaw]

25. Interesting

I just read something Stephen King wrote about Invasion of the Body Snatchers. He talked about how sometimes we get so paranoid, and the reason Body Snatchers appeals to us is that it gives a a concrete reason for the strange behavior of others: the pods took them over. It should be so simple.

[durablend]

19. Why do you think Wal-Mart is trying to take over.

They want to OWN your ass

Your job
Your money
Your spending
Your free-time (of which there will be NONE)


It's *'s "OW(N)ERSHIP SOCIETY"...we OWN you, you OWE us (your life)

[autorank]

10. You sound like the religious right during Clinton.

One of another of them announcend that they were turning their back on America and would be leaving or aggregating in obscure locales to lead a private Xtian life.

While I understand your paranoid thoughts (that's one side of my response) the other side is thinking, knock it off or leave. This is a real drag, particularly when we're in an epic struggle.

Good lucke with your decision but there's a reason you call it your 'paranoid side;' IT IS PARANOID.

[natrat]

16. thats the cleaner ^ from the travolta movie , he knows

he drives an acura nsx and he drives fast

there are alot of folks out there with big credit card debt that are goimg to be in for some rough times----if these bastards really want to put us in dormotories etc they can. One more mihop event and they declare martial law. Forget about elections, there is no such thing anymore. Paranoid? i dont know. Running away? where...this is it you fight the fight w/ no illusions,,,,these people are really bad and really organized and good at what they do

[SmartBomb]

17. Two little things

1. While Clinton's character may have been an issue for the fundies, his policies did not spell a change in their right to live and worship as they saw fit. Bush, on the other hand, is making radical fundamental changes to the fabric of our nation.

2. If, as you say, we are in an epic struggle, then things are indeed dire. Maybe I'm not so paranoid after all.

[autorank]

22. My comment is on 'leaving.'

I'm sick of hearing people talk about leaving. What a team (oh, this is getting really tough, I think I'll quit). Just do it, go and don't waste time on an activist board being a downer. This has nothing to do with accepting reality...* and company are utterly dreadful and dangerous. They must be resisted at multiple levels and intensely.

Go ahead an leave, any of you. Just remember, this is a global problem. * will be with you where ever you are!!!

[SmartBomb]

28. Thanks for informing me what attitudes are considered acceptable on this

board.

I believe in fighting. I believe in fighting for a good, equitable, and safe quality of life for my children. Not, for some romanticized ideal of nation. All things change, and all good things come to an end. That's reality. When America reaches that turning point, and we're pretty close now, it's time to move on. Call me a coward, I'll call you a fool.

[autorank]

30. Uh, I did NOT call you a "coward". That's you word. I'm no "fool" either

Just remember, where ever you go, Bush will be there. Read this. It is most instructive. It is a Pentagon piece on eco-catastrophes and it is quite chilling. Want to go to the Netherlands? Large parts of it won't be there in 10 years. Want to go to the Middle East or India. They will be starving due to crop failures and no water. Pick a spot and it will be impacted by Bush and Company.

http://www.icomm.ca/survival/pentagon_climate_change.pdf

You can't hide so why not sick around and raise some Hell.

People say whatever they want here, including me saying I'm tired of hearing about people leaving. If you were with IBM and you hated them, you could go to CISCO and it might be much, much better. You're here but, unfortunately, you can't go anywhere and avoid the impact.

[SmartBomb]

31. autorank

this is silly. We have too much in common to bicker about this. I honestly respect you're fighting spirit. I haven't made up my mind about leaving, I only posed a question about whether or not, if you had to leave, you'd know when to. I've read some of that report as well as others, and yeah it's looking pretty bad. I also want to help create change in this country, but after what we've experienced these last five years, I'm no longer convinced my efforts will be any more effective from within the US than from a secure place abroad.

Time will tell, let's see how far these fools go.

[autorank]

32. You prompted an important memory. Thanks.

Until age six, I was raised in part by my parent's neighbors, a German Jewish couple who had fled Germany just hours before they were to be arrested. They were wealthy, educated land holders (against the anti-Semitic stereotype). The husband had fought in WWI and was highly decorated. He didn't believe that "they" would ever "come for them." His wife was much more concerned and the compromise was to evacuate the children to England. Finally, they were tipped off and fled just hours before the "knock on the door." They ended up here and did quite well for themselves. However, they lost everything material and nearly their lives. They were the most important people in my upbringing save my parents. I maintained contact with them until their deaths and they are largely responsible for my leftist politics.

So, while I hope you don't leave, I have to say that I understand and should probably take heart.

Thanks for responding in a way that reminded me of this important part of my past.

[Individualist]

20. Not paranoid at all

George Santayana:
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[autorank]

23. I agree, my reference was to the thread author's use of "paranoid"

from above "and your paranoid side; "Get out before it's too late!"?

Don't leave!!!

[Last Lemming]

11. And if you are a young black male

Auntie Laura has just the program for you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. I am not personally afraid, but I no longer like being associated with

this country.

[earth mom]

21. Wanting to get the HELL OUT is NOT paranoid!

And I really resent it when people say that. To those of us that have thought about leaving it's more a point of saying enough is enough!

Do you stay until your house is worthless and you can't give it away because the country is in a deep depression?

Do you leave the house and just get the hell out before every right you have is gone and you can't leave even if you wanted to?

Most importantly, I have a disabled child. Will they come for him some day because he's not perfect?!

Leaving is looking to be the ONLY option we will soon have to say F NO to this f-ing evil regime!

[Stirk]

26. I'm not leaving. When I hear Miami Cubans talk about deposing

Castro, I think, "you had your chance to do something about it, and you ran off to save your own ass instead". Same with these Chalabi-esque "exiles".

I don't want to be like that. I'm not leaving.

[dave123williams]

29. New Zealand's supposed to be quite nice. Very progressive.