Did Bush intend on invading Iraq before 9/11 ?

[kentuck]

If so, has there been any stories on that? And what would have been his excuse for going in if the plans were laid before 9/11?

Reportedly, the plans were there before Bush stole the WH? Any ideas if there is any documentation on these plans? Because, if it can be proven that the plans were there to invade Iraq before 9/11, it destroys whtever credibility Bush and crowd might have had remaining..

[ComerPerro]

1. I know the information is out there

But I don't know where.

Someone else will though.

So


:dem:

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Project for the New American Century

PNAC. I think it is discussed on their website.

[Brian Sweat]

4. PNAC certain advocates an Iraqi invasion,

but is there any evidence that the Bush administration was being guided by PNAC prior to 9-11?

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney

are all PNACers and signed the letter to Clinton. There are other presidential advisors who are on board with this "vision", but their names escape me now. Check newamericancentury.org.

[Brian Sweat]

34. This gives me reason to suspect that they were planning to invade Iraq,

but it doesn't give me proof.

[Sterling]

38. Mein Kampf was not "proof" either but....

It sure looks that way in retrospect does it not?

[ShimokitaJer]

11. Evidence? Look who's in his administration!

Signatories to the 1997 PNAC statement of principles include Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Perle. Frankly, I don't see how it's possible to imagine he wasn't being deliberately guided by the PNAC.

[Brotherjohn]

14. The Bush administration WAS PNAC before 9-11! As they still ARE now!

The time frame is irrelevant.

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby (and brother Jeb) were all founding members of PNAC. The PNAC document "Rebuilding America's Defenses", states that we need to invade Iraq. http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

It says that the U.S. has to develop a military foothold in the region for our own purposes. It explicitly states that Iraq provides the justification for establishing that foothold, but that it has to be done anyway, regardless of whether Saddam is still in power or not.

[joshdawg]

3. not sure, but.....

Bu**sh** was quoted as saying that Hussein "tried to kill my Daddy". I really don't know, tho'. It seems that he did have a plan to invade Iraq, but, who knows for sure. Would like to find out one way or the other.

[never cry wolf]

5. hunh, weird

just as i read your post, while listening to Greg Palast on the Tom Hartman show he said that he has a paper in his possession, the plans for a post-war iraq, which was done well before we all "knew" there was going to be a conflict. i think he said that was going to be his next piece.

by the way, in 1997 the PNAC wrote a letter to Clinton urging him to invade iraq and their global policy paper put out in 2000 also says we should use the military there. at cheney's energy policy board meetings, pre 9-11, they had maps and the dispositions of the iraqi oil fields, probably figuring how to split up the pie.

[ShimokitaJer]

6. Check the PNAC agenda

You can check out their own site (it's not too difficult to get a sense of their agenda) at www.newamericancentury.org -- or you can check out Sean Michael O'Culeigh's "Armageddon File: The Right Wing Plan to Hijack America" from back in March, 2003. It's one of the best (and scariest) outlines of it I've seen, and you can find it at http://www.stpeace.org/articles/Armageddon_File.htm

[ewagner]

29. Just read Armageddon File

for the first time

There are so many smoking guns in that thing I'm still choking on the smoke!

It is now on my hard drive.

I am now more pissed off than ever.......

[parasim]

7. PNAC

article from Philly Daily News:

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/01/27/news/local/5025024.htm

[leftofthedial]

8. PNAC certainly did

and he gave them the most prominent roles in his state and defense departments. So, I'd say Yes.

[FluxRostrum]

9. most of it's on this page

http://fluxrostrum.com/starters/start-pax.htm

[newyawker99]

37. Hi FluxRostrum!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[scarletwoman]

12. "Regime change" in Iraq was in the 2000 RNC party platform!

I don't have a link handy, sorry. However, I imagine you can find it by doing a relatively quick search.

And, as others have already posted, the PNAC documents very clearly called for taking over Iraq.

sw

[Stephanie]

13. You are CORRECT

Intro to PNAC

[cmf]

15. It seems as though it was part of the Repug platform among other things.

Here's an outline from cooperative research.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/iraq/pre911callsforwaronIraq.html

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

16. discussed in Cheney's energy task force meetings

Likely Cheney discussed in detail the
spoils of a Iraq occupation.

Thats why Cheney's task force had maps of the Iraqi oil
fileds and pipelines.

Thats why ENRON was in Cheney's energy meetings.
Thats why Haliburton was in Cheney's energy meetings.

Cheney IS PNAC.
PNAC has been very public in the PNAC lust for Iraq oil.
PNAC has WANTED a war with Iraq for years.

Rumsfeld IS PNAC.
PNAC WANTED AND PLANNED FOR A IRAQ WAR.

Perle IS PNAC.
PNAC WANTED AND PLANNED FOR TAKEOVER OF IRAQ OIL.

Wolfowitz IS PNAC.
PNAC wanted a war to take out Saddam.


The PNAC cabal even wrote & delivered a letter to
then PRESIDENT Clinton demanding a war with Iraq.


The PNAC cabal IS BushSR-CIA.
BushSR-CIA fed then President the PNAC crap to try
and 'get' then-President Clinton 'on board' the
PNAC's road to war with Iraq.

You're damn right - the PNAC planned the Iraq War
long before BushJR stole the White House in 2000.

Why do you think the right-wingers from the dark-side
were out in force during the days the votes who stopped.

Baker et al.



The PNAC traitors to American Democracy.

[indepat]

23. Surely you are not implying that division of the Iraqi oil spoils was

discussed during Cheney's energy meetings, for surely at least one patriot was in attendance who would step forward and spill all the beans. So to my way of thinking, division of the Iraqi oil spoils was either not discussed or there was not even one patriot among those in attendance, not one person who lovs his country more than his ideology and avarice. Not a pretty picture either way and of course those detailed maps are most curious indeed.

[never cry wolf]

28. They were hand picked

and at the table divying up not just iraq's oil but the energy policy of the biggest energy hog ever on the planet, are you kidding me? you are being sarcastic, right?? i am sure they all tought they were patriots and that grabbing iraq's oil was in america's best interest, as well as theirs.

[kentuck]

17. The answer may be in the secret Cheney energy files....?

Maybe that is why they are keeping them secret??

[Clete]

18. Here's a couple of outside references to get you started.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/ma_273_01.html

And one DU reference that has the above and much, much more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=301411

[Old and In the Way]

19. An executive order was on Bush's desk to declare

war/invade Afghanistan prior to 9/11.. Condi admitted that on TV(MTP?), I heard her state that in no uncertain terms......I thought this was quite interesting. What a coincidence! Probably was planning to invade with no justification, but 9/11 happened....

[ignatius]

25. Here is a timeline siting 9-9-01 as the date the

plan was on Dummy's desk...course if I remember correctly, he professed not to know about it. Like that's believable.

snip...55. Sept9,2001-President George W. Bush is presented with detailed war plans to overthrow Al-Qaeda, according to U.S. and foreign sources speaking to NBC News.

http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html

[ignatius]

26. The link to msnbc has expired. I mayhave a hard copy

at home.

[screembloodymurder]

36. Right I heard her too.

I think Afghanistan is getting confused with Iraq. Afghanistan had the terrorist. Iraq has the oil. This still has Bush confused.

[Dude_CalmDown]

40. You're forgetting Afghanistan's brand new oil pipeline...

"Afghanistan had the terrorist. Iraq has the oil"

...Click Me

[Fescue4u]

20. I believe he did.

The problem for Bush was finding a pretense to invade.

Frankly I've never believed it was about Iraq's oil, nor a fabeled Afghan pipeline.

It was about revenge..avenging the assasination attempt on his father.

Then 9/11 came along and VIOLA!..there is his pretense.

[proud patriot]

21. Well bush did say

"he tried to kill my daddy"

All I can infer is Yes , he's wanted war
with Iraq since that moment .

[JHB]

22. It's in the 2000 Republican Platform

From http://www.rnc.org/GOPInfo/Platform/2000platform8aaa.htm

A new Republican administration will patiently rebuild an international coalition opposed to Saddam Hussein and committed to joint action. We will insist that Iraq comply fully with its disarmament commitments. We will maintain the sanctions on the Iraqi regime while seeking to alleviate the suffering of innocent Iraqi people. We will react forcefully and unequivocally to any evidence of reconstituted Iraqi capabilities for producing weapons of mass destruction. In 1998, Congress passed and the president signed the Iraq Liberation Act, the clear purpose of which is to assist the opposition to Saddam Hussein. The administration has used an arsenal of dilatory tactics to block any serious support to the Iraqi National Congress, an umbrella organization reflecting a broad and representative group of Iraqis who wish to free their country from the scourge of Saddam Hussein's regime. We support the full implementation of the Iraq Liberation Act, which should be regarded as a starting point in a comprehensive plan for the removal of Saddam Hussein and the restoration of international inspections in collaboration with his successor. Republicans recognize that peace and stability in the Persian Gulf is impossible as long as Saddam Hussein rules Iraq.

[soleft]

24. It's in the Cheney energy docs we'll never see

There was something posted on DU recently that showed maps of Iraqi oil fields were distributed at the meetings.

[rocktivity]

27. Here's the all the evidence I needed

During the anthrax letter crisis not long after 9/11, I read more than one story about how it had come from Iraq. I think Bush has intended to invade Iraq since before he announced his candidacy!


rocknation

[LeftHander]

30. No 9/11, no terror war, no Iraq, no oil

From the second the TV said it was a terrorist attack I knew right away that it was done to secure the right wing agenda. I told a friend of mine "just watch the republicans run with this..."

[FlashHarry]

31. Absolutely no question about it.

And I'm no conspiracy theorist. Rummy wanted to invade Iraq on 9/12--something you don't do if you're not even sure who hit you, which they couldn't possibly have known that soon.

The neocons have wanted to invade Iraq since about 1992.

[Sterling]

39. "which they couldn't possibly have known that soon"

Wanna bet? Think about it.

No, of course they just got lucky.

[leftchick]

32. Michael Meacher from this Guardian article on Sunday sure thinks so...

and I agree 100% with it..... http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

[ignatius]

33. I seem to have given the link for the Afghan war, when you were asking

about Iraq. The only thing I remember is Rummy's infamous line on 9-11-01...'sweep it up, things related and not."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml

That coupled with the PNAC is very incriminating.

[Dancing_Dave]

35. Yes, that was already in the plan

The neo-cons PNAC agenda, constituted before Bush was in the WH, clearly called for the U.S. to take over Iraq after what they called a "New Pearl Harbor" what catalyze America into a military empire. So that's one of the reasons that 9/11 happened.

That will be discussed at many public events this weak!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=306045

[DrBB]

41. Pre-9/11 plan to attack Afghanistan: link here

Um, in spite of what all these people are saying, I'm confused. Kentuck has been around here long enough to be well versed in PNAC lore, yes? Which is most of what I'm seeing here. And I don't think it's exactly responsive--Bush himself was NOT a PNAC guy; that stems from the Cheney faction in Shrump I's administration and it represents a tension within the admin between the influence of Daddy Bush and that of this clique, which had continued to develop its schemes while they were in the wilderness in the Clinton years.

So maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like you might be thinking about the specific story that there was a M.E. invasion plan in place before 9/11. The one I know about is actually the story that there was a pre-9/11 plan to invade Afghanistan, namely this:

US 'planned attack on Taleban'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm

[wuushew]

42. Didn't shrub say as much in 1999?

A reporter asked him point blank what his views on Iraq were. Depending on the story he either smirked or winked very stranglely and said something to the effect of "wait and you'll see". I am not making this up, someone has to have a transcript of it somewhere.

[Dancing_Dave]

43. The Neo-Cons sure did plan both the war and the 9/11 pretext for it

The ONLY question is what are going to do about it. As soon as enough people know about it, the Bush Regime will fall in the next election. It is the one and only truth that can overcome all the Bush Administrations overwhelming advantages in campaign financing in the next elections.

Activate now!
http://www.911truth.org/

[ima_sinnic]

44. the neocons have wanted to invade Iraq since 1979

The Thirty Year Itch, Mother Jones, March/April 2003

also see:
Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming president
Neil Mackay, (Scotland) Sunday Herald, Sept. 15, 2002
Scottish newspaper reviewed the then newly unearthed "secret blueprint for U.S. global domination," PNAC's document titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century." Quoted at the end of the article, Tam Dalyell, Labour MP, "father of the House of Commons and one of the leading rebel voices against war with Iraq, said, 'This is garbage from right-wing think-tanks stuffed with chicken-hawks -- men who have never seen the horror of war but are in love with the idea of war. Men like Cheney, who were draft-dodgers in the Vietnam war.'"