Supporters of 'ABB' (Anyone But Bush) Are Bad People

[WilliamPitt]

Poll question: Supporters of 'ABB' (Anyone But Bush) Are Bad People

[StopTheMorans]

1. Will,

on edit: nevermind:)

[cprise]

2. Well, just mis-guided

.

[Old and In the Way]

3. We are corrupted.....

but not bad.

[Ripley]

4. No, and ABBOL are even less bad people.

Anybody But Bush or Lieberman.

:kick:

[Solly Mack]

5. Disgusted, maybe. Beyond fed up, maybe. Just plain tired of the BS, maybe

but bad, no.

Something has to give and give soon...and I understand that feeling.

[Fenris]

6. I'd say "Anyone" with a qualifier

"Anyone but Bush, LaRouche, Buchannan, Hitler, or Schwarzenegger"

[ButterflyBlood]

43. oh give me a break

how could Arnold be worse than Bush? Not that I want him as a governor or in any office but he'd be better than any conservative.

[Friar]

44. He'd just appoint neocons

He's as much a cypher as Bush or Reagan. He'd be a disaster.

[Raven]

7. BADBADBAD...

in the good sense, of course! :hi:

[soleft]

8. ABBA are the worse people

freaking Swedes

[JVS]

57. Don't be such a bigot!

We Swedes are people too!

[maveric]

9. We're "Bad" in a James Brown way.

And we seem to always be in a "bad" mood.
Other than that we're fucking great!

[Emboldened Chimp]

42. Yeah, we're Super Bad!

[JVS]

58. you got sooooouuuuuul and you're superbad!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. The ALL OR NOTHING folks run the risk of nothing far greater than ABB

folks. Which would you rather risk?

[LiberalBushFan]

11. it's more of a catch phrase

to show how terrible Shrub is. No one truly believes in ANYONE but Bush, but I think most people get the idea.

[jmm]

63. That's why I picked it as my avatar.

I'm sure there are a few people that would do a worse job than Bush, but he's aweful and almost anybody could do better.

[John_H]

12. We're bad ASS, motherfucka

So get the fuck out of the way, pristine pantywaists, and let us save the country for your theory-loving idealogue asses.

Just kidding. I am in fact a bad person, as is anyone even remotely like me.

[RichM]

13. Yes, they are. To support ABB is to reject reasoned analysis. It's

taking the easy way out; it's a refusal to use one's critical faculties to make sense of a society that's disintegrating before our eyes. It also represents a cowardly conformism & a lack of intellectual independence. "I don't want to use my brain; I'll just vote for whomever the Democratic Party puts out there."

[StopTheMorans]

15. and not supporting it is to say

"I don't want to stop fascism, I'll just vote for someone who will never win". Two can play at this game;)

[joycep]

19. I do agree with you

ABB ABB ABB ABB so there!

[RichM]

24. Your conclusion only follows if one accepts the 2-party system as being

inviolable & beyond all challenge. If one accepts absurd unjust premises, ridiculous consequences will of course follow.

The best that can ever happen, if the future is limited to Democrats and Republicans, is a never-ending series of "lesser evil" contests. The fault lies in the docile acceptance of this tyranny -- not with those who see clearly that both of these "choices" are abominable & inadequate.

[StopTheMorans]

25. alright Rich

show me when a 3rd party has ever made significant, LONG-TERM inroads. The 2 party system is inviolable, and it has proven itself in elections time and again. When the populist party in the late 1800's and early 1900's started making inroads, the two major parties made just enough concessions to make this party obsolete. Look at Perot, what happened to him? Same thing, parties took a few ideas of his that appealed to people, and rendered him obsolete. I beseech you to make me a convincing argument to the contrary. Until this is a viable option (read, not any time soon) you're wasting your vote after the primary IMHO.

[RichM]

49. What you're describing is the classic argument for conformism & a

general attitude of surrender to the status quo.

Every single NEW social development in history did not exist before it finally existed. Thus, the possibility of every new development could have been scoffed at before it finally came about, by people offering the same argument you're using now.

Before there were liberal democracies, there were monarchies and feudal states. If a dreamer of those times imagined a form of social organization much like the one later codified in the US Constitution, should he have been jeered at & told it was impossible, because it never had happened?

Before the Civil Rights Movement of the mid-twentieth century, such a thing had never happened. Should those who nonetheless felt the need for it have been jeered at & told it was impossible, because it never had happened? ...

Our society is enmeshed in profound crisis. The system is so sclerotic & dysfunctional that most of the truly important questions can't even be discussed in public. Public discourse has become little more than lies, shark attacks & state propaganda. The government is bankrupt, hated, feared, & criminal. Important changes have to be made in the system itself, or there is going to be one hell of a terrible explosion.

Therefore, the intelligent attitude is not to be so quick to jeer derisively at the possibility of new developments. One should be open to them; give them consideration. Even if you vote for a Democrat, it should be as a temporary tactical measure, done with the awareness that it's an insult to democracy that the two parties maintain their unjust monopoly, with both parties representing modestly different versions of the same thing.

[StopTheMorans]

52. please advise me how I'm wrong then Rich, oh omniscient one:)

seriously. Tell me how, when, and where a third party can make inroads, and how they will keep their supporters. It was a fairly straightforward question, I'm just dealing with the reality that we have all been dealt. I'm not a conformist, just a pragmatist. Ideals are great as long as you can make them happen, how will you bring this 3rd party possibility into the argument as a REAL possibility? Or do you want to just keep calling people names?:)


btw: I like your last paragraph

[RichM]

64. Oh, you'd like me to type out the entire Manifesto right here & now? OK -

My Manifesto Regarding Third Party Formation

When, in the course of political development, it becomes necessary to introduce drastic revision to the spectrum of conventional choice ...


Actually, maybe I'll type this tomorrow. It's kind of long, & I'm busy today. :-)

However: one quick point about conformism. Conformism to the status quo results when everyone in the room says, "I'm not a conformist, just a pragmatist." That's sufficient for maintenance of the status quo. You don't have to have people saying, "I'm a proud conformist & wholeheartedly support the status quo."

[indigo32]

28. Rich

we have a winner take all system, no run offs, that supports 2 party. It's as simple as that. What are you gonna do to change that? That is not an "absurd, unjust premise". It's how our founding fathers set up the constitution plain and simple.

[GreenArrow]

40. not supporting it (ABB) is irrelevant if both candidates

are fascists.

If you want to stop fascism, you don't want to vote for a fascist--of either party.

[Booberdawg]

20. Considering the state of affairs that's naive

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenArrow]

39. A prophet is not without honor

except in his own country. RichM is W-A-Y ahead of the curve on this.

[never cry wolf]

27. So I am curious,

is there any one of our 8 1/2 candidates that you would not vote for over shrub? ABB does not mean that you don't research the slate. Nor does it mean that you don't make a selection and support the candidate of your choice. But, I know enough about the current admin to know that I personally would vote for ABB should any of the Dem candidates.

[Old and In the Way]

30. We're not all as smart as you, I guess.

The really smart people voted for Ralph in 2000.

[Friar]

46. the really smart people helped elect Bush then

Pretty smart of them.

[Rich Hunt]

61. I dunno

...seems to be a really pragmatic stance given the dire conditions we're in.

I favor some Dems over others, but in the end it will be ABB for me.

[Booberdawg]

14. Of course not! We are practical!

If bush* is reelected we are in grave danger.

[Jacobin]

16. Not 'bad", just evil

Evildoing evildoers. :-)

[KittyWampus]

17. Neither- Just Lousy Poker Players

To say, before the Dem Primary "Anyone But Bush" is to lower expectations...

And not very good from a bargaining/negortiating point of view.

I couldn't vote cause it's not yes or no to me.

[JVS]

65. Amen sister!

[fla nocount]

18. Bad to the bone.

Silly Duers. Belief in the value of the individual.......what tripe. We should all be summarily shot and our children be taught a useful trade like making cheap sneakers that are competitive on the world market.

[Leftist78]

21. what do you mean?

I love the Allman Brothers Band. How could anybody call them bad people? :silly:

[Jack_Sparrow]

22. you stole my joke!

Good thing I read the thread before posting. :D

[Leftist78]

23. I was suprised

no one had posted it yet.

[ComerPerro]

29. It depends how far you take it

As one of "them", you are not bad people if you endorse ABB unless you are so fanatic that you would vote for (insert horribly evil person's name here) before Bush.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Would you say

there are horribly evil people among the current (and potential) Dem candidates?

[ComerPerro]

33. I dont really think any of them are worse than what we have now

Do you know of any?

[angka]

51. no i wouldn't.

i do think there are some among the current democratic candidates who found that accomodating bush's agenda was more convenient for them than fighting it. i view them as compromised, not evil. and i won't support them until i am given no alternative on election day.

something about this line of questions ('are the ABB folks bad people?' 'are there evil democratic candidates?') is a little troubling to me.

[Walt Starr]

32. If it's a Ham Sandwich Vs. *

I gotta go with the Ham Sandwich.

Am I evil?

[library_max]

36. DEE-LIGHTED to see you on board, Walt!

:toast:

[JVS]

60. changing your mind again?

[oasis]

34. check-in vote

:thumbsup:

[chiburb]

35. I don't trust energy companies!!!!!

ABB is a leader in power and automation technologies that enable utility and industry customers to improve performance while lowering environmental impact. The ABB Group of companies operates in around 100 countries and employs around 133,000 people.

[sujan]

37. they are evil

yellow dogs.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Yes dead dogs can't hurt anyone..therefore they are not evil

All or nothing people are the dead dog party..they won't roll over now but you can't do tricks when you are dead either...

[StandWatie]

41. short sighted and stupid

If you demand nothing it's exactly what you are going to get and all you deserve.

[library_max]

47. Clarification, please.

Your post isn't entirely clear. Who is it that you accuse of being "short sighted and stupid"? Democrats who are trying to unite behind a candidate who can beat Bush in the general election? Or the never-compromise crowd that voted for Nader and let Bush steal Florida in 2000?

[StandWatie]

48. the fanatical "anyone but Bush" crowd

it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If that's the formula we should find someone with even less scruples than Bush so he could draw off corporate support from him.

ABB is a self-defeating concept if you care about policy at all. If that's how you feel for God's sake don't tell the politicians that.

[Iverson]

45. simplistic reduction

This construction completely avoids ideas, which are the really important things here.

[diamondsoul]

50. Wel then, I just wanna know who's going to knock me off the

Kucinich supporter bandwagon?

Yeesh! I'm comitted to ABB, and have signed the pledge. In the meanwhile I bust ass for my candidate. What's this tripe about "lowering expectations" before the primaries? It's no such thing. It's being worried sick about another 4 of Bushco, period. It's knowing that absolutely ANY one of the Dem candidates has to be better than Bush, by any standards.

That doesn't stop me from working my rear-end off to get word out about Kucinich, and I seriously doubt he'd be holding my ABB pledge against me!

[mindfulNJ]

53. I'm not ABB...

I'm AOT9CROB...Anyone Of The 9 Candidates Running Over Bush...catchy isn't it?:)...Seriously, it isn't going to BE anyone, it's going to be one of the nine...any ONE of them is better than Monkey boy.

[Buns_of_Fire]

56. Probably soon to be AOT10CROB

(AOT11CROB if you count Krusty the Clown. :-) )

[Sagan]

54. I feel vindicated.. :)

Call me bad if you like, but I am a staunch "Anyone But Bush" proponent.

[Buns_of_Fire]

55. B-B-B-B-B-B-Bad. B-B-B-Bad to the B-B-B-Bone.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: When the house is on fire is not the time to be worrying about whether or not the drapes match the carpet. Put Krusty the Clown (D) up against Whistle the Ass (R), and he'll get my vote.

[JVS]

59. People who are openly ABB and proclaim it constantly...

are hanging a sign around their necks that says "Please feel free to ignore any issues that may be important to me"

If you are ABB in your heart, that is fine. But when a group such as DU, or the Left in general strongly voice support for ABB, they are selling their interests short.

[fla nocount]

62. 184 Abb...22 comdemnations. 59 posters hmmm.

Any math prof.s in the audience?