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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:00 PM
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More from Ward Churchill
Before reading the words of Ward Churchill consider the following from Michael Ledeen one of the most influential neocon "thinkers" and theorists;
"Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our own society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity, which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. Seeing America undo traditional societies, they fear us, for they do not wish to be undone. They cannot feel secure so long as we are there, for our very existence—our existence, not our politics—threatens their legitimacy. They must attack us in order to survive, just as we must destroy them to advance our historic mission."

The following are a few select comments from Ward Churchill from a recent interview;
"The individuals who are perpetrators in one way or another, the “little Eichmanns” in the background—the technocrats, bureaucrats, technicians—who make the matrix of atrocity that we are opposing possible are used to operating with impunity. If you’re designing thermonuclear weapons, you’re subject to neutralization, in the same sense that somebody who is engaged in homicide would be, in terms of their capacity to perpetrate that offense. One or two steps removed should not have the effect of immunizing. Otherwise, only those who are in the frontline—usually the most expendable in the systemic sense—are subject to intervention. None of the decision-makers, the people who make it possible, would be subject to intervention that would prevent their action in any way at all."

" One of the things I’ve suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary. This seems like such a no-brainer that I hate to frame it in terms of actual transformation of consciousness. ‘Hey those brown-skinned folks dying in the millions in order to maintain this way of life, they can wait forever for those who purport to be the opposition here to find some personally comfortable and pure manner of affecting the kind of transformation that brings not just lethal but genocidal processes to a halt.’ They have no obligation—moral, ethical, legal or otherwise—to sit on their thumbs while the opposition here dithers about doing anything to change the system. So it’s removing the sense of—and right to—impunity from the American opposition."

"Third world opposition on the other hand understands this dynamic much more clearly. You have to have an eradication of the beast, not a retraining of the beast’s performance. I can give a talk to a university in North America, to students and professors, and they are fundamentally confused about things that are automatically self-evident to people when you go to a village in Latin America, where the average educational attainment is third grade. Now why can these “peasants” automatically grasp concepts that are just beyond the reach altogether of your average university audience in North America?"

Why do you think?

"Partly because it’s this fostering of illusion—and it’s self-imposed—that repeating the same process yet again will somehow lead to a fundamentally different result. We can go through the charade of ‘let’s elect John Kerry instead of George Bush,’ do things which are essentially painless to us, and the outcome is going to be different. You don’t have politics, you have alchemy. That’s delusional behavior. It’s a state of denial in a social maybe even cultural sense. And that’s what’s masquerading as progressive politics."

"What gives me hope is that people are imbued innately with consciousness and you can potentially reorder that to arrive at an understanding of what needs to be done. Once the understanding is there, the capacity to do what necessary is obviously present. So despite the fact that my experience tells me that it is unlikely (because of the vast preference of the bulk of the people to indulge themselves personally, rather than engage in something that might be effective but personally uncomfortable), the possibility of an alteration in that consciousness, remains always present."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:18 PM
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:23 PM
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2. That's one angry self-loathing ex-hippie.
It also seems that his claims of Native American ancestory are fake.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:36 PM
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3. He is willing to look under the rug
and inventory what is being swept under it.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 08:55 PM
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4. He makes a number of strong points...
Our focus always was and still is on our immediate comfort. Our priorities are more directed toward THINGS, such as cell phones, flat TV, digital this and that, and other desirable, but unnecessary frills. I am just as guilty as anyone else, as I indulge myself frivolities periodically, but I think he has some salient points. This society lives for conspicuous consumption,
(thank you, Thorstein Veblen), and would be hard pressed to think of life without it. On the other hand, many people in 'third world' countries don't have to worry about the cell phone bills and roll-over minutes, because they are too busy trying to survive. Some of this is exemplified by some of the bumper stickers and radio bs, like "kick their ass and take their gas". Heaven help us if we have to go without cheap energy, even if it means stealing it from others.
I don't advocate any more instances such as the 9-11 attacks, but I guess what Churchill is asking is this: What will it take for the American people to finally realize that we are not the only people on this planet, and that our 'needs' are so much more important than everyone else's?
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:30 PM
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6. yes it is quite simple take responsibility...
don't be surprised when people push back. it is odd how many folks who agree that the beast is consuming us all piddle in the shallow puddle when an individual points out the obvious and doesn't couch it in weasel words. americans are so smug and it seems nothing can shake them out of their sense of entitlement. this isn't limited to the suv drivers and war mongers. i think this is a chord he touched upon that drives folks nuts, meaning you have to sacrifice-alot.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:35 PM
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7. As a nation and as a society...
we could be SO much better. <sigh>
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:26 PM
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5. Recently - with this controversy
Edited on Sat Feb-05-05 09:27 PM by bloom
I've been noticing what Mr. Pipes has been up to. It is interesting to note the arguments made about having him speak at a University. While - Mr. Pipes would like nothing better than to squash liberal voices (through campus-watch)

Plus an "anonymous" study posted on his website this week that seems to be designed to inflame hatred against the Saudi people and gov't.

-----

A student-run centre at York University in Toronto has blocked a pro-Israeli academic from speaking at its facility, fearing that it may lead to Concordia University-style protests.

<snip>
Mr. Pipes, author of 11 books on the Middle East, said the Student Centre's move shows the "aggressiveness and intolerance of the pro-Palestinian . . . and extreme left.

"If you don't subscribe to those points of view, you don't have a legitimate voice," he added.

But the university said it needs to take necessary precautions so that there will not be a repeat of what happened at Concordia in September. Violent clashes between pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian students forced the cancellation of a speech by former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the Montreal university.

Ed Morgan, Ontario chair of the Canadian Jewish Congress, hopes that Mr. Pipes's visit will not lead to another Concordia-like protest, even if it is on a smaller scale...

Zac Kaye, executive director of Jewish Campus Services of Greater Toronto, an umbrella organization for the York student group, sat in on the meetings with York students this week. He said many were uncomfortable with Mr. Pipes visiting the campus.

But Mr. Kaye said universities shouldn't stifle different views. "That's what universities are all about," he said. "One doesn't have to always agree with their opinions. We felt somebody like Daniel Pipes should have the opportunity to speak."


from http://www.theglobeandmail.com/ (no longer available).

------

(Two points about it bear noting: This important study was written anonymously, for security reasons, and it was issued by a think tank, and not by university-based researchers. Once again, an off-campus organization does the most creative and timely work, and Middle East specialists find themselves sidelined.)

The picture of Saudi activities in the United States is not a pretty one.

Freedom House's Muslim volunteers went to 15 prominent mosques from New York to San Diego and collected more than 200 books and other publications disseminated by Saudi Arabia (some 90% in Arabic) in mosque libraries, publication racks, and bookstores.

What they found can only be described as horrifying. These writings - each and every one of them sponsored by the kingdom - espouse an anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, misogynist, jihadist, and supremacist outlook. For example, they:

•Reject Christianity as a valid faith: Any Muslim who believes "that churches are houses of God and that God is worshiped therein is an infidel."

•Insist that Islamic law be applied: On a range of issues, from women (who must be veiled) to apostates from Islam ("should be killed"), the Saudi publications insist on full enforcement of Shariah in America.

•See non-Muslims as the enemy: "Be dissociated from the infidels, hate them for their religion, leave them, never rely on them for support, do not admire them, and always oppose them in every way according to Islamic law."

•See America as hostile territory: "It is forbidden for a Muslim to become a citizen of a country governed by infidels because this is a means of acquiescing to their infidelity and accepting all their erroneous ways."

•Prepare for war against America: "To be true Muslims, we must prepare and be ready for jihad in Allah's way. It is the duty of the citizen and the government."

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2384
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Metrix Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 09:55 PM
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8. I agree with what he says
Is this what all the controversy is about? Unfortunately we have a lot of media worms in Denver, plus the fatuous governor, feeding on this.
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