Hilary is making me nervous with her God talk

[mopaul]

how bout you?

[Name removed]

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[The Sheik]

2. Yay to that.

[mopaul]

3. i'd hate to have to vote for her, like i did with kerry

but it also would be cool to see them all choke at the thought of her as president.

[oasis]

17. Hill (spelled with 2 Ls) will be a very strong candidate in 2008 should

she choose to run. Those who are not in her camp right now have an excellent chance to give her a second look. I'm sure they'll like what they see when they get a view of the big picture.

[Name removed]

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[oasis]

30. No Democrat is going to win the solidly red states. It's funny how many

on the left criticize her for being too moderate then turn around and count her out for being "too polarizing".

Just what do they mean?

[ButterflyBlood]

38. he said "red states". Not "solidly red states"

In order to win, Hillary would have to win some of the red states this year and in 2000, and I find it tough to believe there is a single person in the country who actually likes her and did not vote for Kerry.

[oasis]

51. The Dems will have a sparkling array of candidates come 2008. I'm

hoping the field stays wide open and strong until then.

[Divine Discontent]

67. YES THERE ARE SEVERAL

CANDIDATES THAT HAVE A GREAT CHANCE, AND ONES WE PROBABLY DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT


but come ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

with THIS much heated banter about Hillary NOWWWWWWWWWWW by liberal and moderate dems, do you really think she has a better chance than the guys we have available? HECK NO! SHE WILL DRIVE THE REPUGS TO THE POLLS "CLINTON'S WIFE - HELL NO!!!!!!!!!"

I don't care how much she talks about the Good Lord - I'm not supporting her to be the parties candidate!

we'd be insane...

imagine her instead of kerry this time??? you think she would have won PENNSYLVANIA???? DREAM ON! Kerry won some big ass states.

[Clark2008]

41. There are at least two (possibily three) Southern states

that could go blue with the right candidate: Arkansas and Virginia.
Hillary isn't that candidate.

[oasis]

48. Not at the present. I agree.

[natrat]

63. you guys are funny

wake the fuck up--elections mean nothing---look what they did to the secretary of state in california,,we will have e voting by 2006 and ca. will go all red 2008,, at this rate we are going to litterally fear for our lives soon,,,wake up and at least know what's going on when they come for you

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. Elections stopped meaning anything in 2000 and if that didn't prove it,

2002 should have and this past sham of an "election" seal it.

[Name removed]

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[oasis]

55. That's for Hillary's exploratory committee to determine. Meanwhile

it's all up in the air what Democrat those two states would support.

[cidliz2004]

62. As far as Hillary goes, Polarizing means people will rush

to the polls to MAKE SURE that she isn't elected. Polarizing is how we feel about Bush, Polarizing is that she is like Pavlov and his dogs and bells. Pavlov rang the bell and the dogs salivated. Say Hillary and Blue will turn Red and Red will get redder.

I like Hillary, but she IS TOO polarizing AND she is a FEMALE. Those two things (being Hillary CLINTON) and being female are, to me insurmountable obstacles.

Although part of me would like to think that she would grab so much attention in the press and she would be so outspoken against the Right that a revolution of sorts would take place and she'd get all of the ABB vote that Kerry got this time PLUS many more ABB votes by the time Republicans catch on to how royally Bush has f===ed everything up.

[ultraist]

33. Hillary will NOT be a "very strong candidate in 2008."

Have you ever been to the South? She is HATED in the South. Even the Democrats here really don't like her much. People who value traditional roles for men and women will NOT vote for her. Consider how she had to tone it down, even as First Lady.

Anyone who thinks a woman can take the presidency in 2008 is in denial of how much sexism exists in our society. We are no where near the point where our electorate would vote in a woman president, particularly during war time. It's highly likely we will still be in Iraq or at war somewhere else, like Iran. War is considered a "man's game."

[oasis]

46. Who knows what some southern women will do when the polling curtain is

pulled? Her candidacy is a wait and see proposition anyway since she will first test the waters.

And yes I've been down South, there's some parts of the region where the Fundie Koolaid doesn't go down that easy.

[cidliz2004]

66. Possibly, another outcome might exist

If Bush can STEAL elections, so then possibly the Clintons can to.
What is good for the goose might be good for the gander. AND if the Dems agreed to turn their head while the 04 election was stolen so that Hillary can win in 08'.... Sounds far fetched, I know, but I really wouldn't be totally shocked, would you?

[saracat]

4. Any of the moderate Dems doing this creeps me out. Appeasement. Gag!

But she voted good this week! Thank the universe for that!

[bluestateguy]

5. Hillary has burned too many bridges with Red Staters

I urge her not to run. I will not support a northeastern candidate for the nomination in 2008.

[shadowknows69]

6. she's burned a few in upstate NY too

[Name removed]

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[DIKB]

8. Screw Hillary.

Edwards in '08 !!!!!

He had the guts to want to fight, him along with Kucinich were the first candidates I got behind. With Dean as DNC chair, I can dream. . .

[Name removed]

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[Coastie for Truth]

26. Before we fall in love with Kucinich

I worked in Akron when he was Mayor of Cleveland. Great idea guy-- not much on execution.

[LWolf]

32. Too late. n/t

[ultraist]

35. I agree! Edwards has a good chance. Edwards/Boxer or Obama for VP

It will be a MAJOR UPSET if Dean doesn't get Chair. If he doesn't I will be extremely worried about the direction of the party.

[tralfaz]

60. Hell,

what chance does Edwards have if he can't even guarantee his home state???

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

19. wow, a BJ joke

How original, especially after all these years. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[papau]

36. No - she has always been very religious - last 30 years her high school

pastor and like persons have been very close to her and all her decisions in this life.

However she is not red-state born again in your face.

[bryant69]

11. God Talk?

I guess I don't see it. Do you think that all Democratic Candidates should be Atheists?

Personally since i'm religious I like the idea of Hillary letting the country know that you don't have to be conservative to be religious.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Name removed]

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[mopaul]

14. i should've said, her SUDDEN religious banter

never ever did she refer to god or praying, and sucking up to the crazier christians among us is counterproductive. maybe she's trying to reach out, but to me, it looks like she's kissing ass.

[Goldeneye]

15. Many people believe that religion is a private thing...maybe

thats why she didn't talk about religion and praying. Check out post 13.

[ultraist]

39. She's pandering to the religious reich. She SUPPORTS FAITH BASED grants

She said that at a speech a couple of weeks ago. She is pulling a Centrist preparing for 08.

The Religious Reich thinks that ONLY THOSE who wear their religion on their sleeve are worthy.

[mopaul]

43. that's how i perceive it

crass pandering for the religious vote, which mixes church and state.

[Pepperbelly]

70. I belong to the same church in Little Rock that Hillary and Chelsea ...

belonged to and I promise you this ... it is faaaar from fundamentalist. The church is a socially active church with a predominantly liberal membership. We were picketed back in the day by screaming fundamentalists who were bused in to cause trouble.

Sorry, but Hillary is not a fundie by any stretch nor is a discussion of religion in her life something new.

[Disturbed]

16. Pandering and appeasment won't..

get it. The Dems need a real Democrat to run but shit a lot can change in 4 years. Maybe Amerika won't have any more elections by the time 2008 arrives.

[tx_dem41]

37. So, a "real" Democrat...

should be non-religious? Separation of Church and State does not force a politician to not talk about their faith and how it might guide them to their political beliefs. And, I say that as an Atheist.

[ultraist]

49. Who said that?

Of course Democrats VALUE FREEDOM OF AND FROM RELIGION. But infusing so much of one's religion, PUBLICLY into the political arena is not necessary. It begins to cross the line of imposing religious beliefs onto the constituents and into the legislation. At what point is the religion being injected into the policy if it's used during the process?

Are they attempting nationalize Christianity? It sure looks that way when one cannot differentiate a Senate session from a church service.

Our ELECTED politicians need to keep their personal religious out of our legislation.

[NewInNewJ.]

28. Bryant69

I totally agree with you. I am a Christian, and a lot of Dems. evidently think that only the rightwingers own that title. Just because you don't wear it on your sleeve doesn't mean you are not. I believe in walking the walk instead of talking the talk.

[Coastie for Truth]

29. I agree

I am pretty much turned off by the "oh so fashionable" turn to atheism among so many NYC and SFO progressives (and my wife is from NYC - and we live in the SFO area)

[papau]

40. I agree - at least 90% of Dems are religious - and Hillary has

always been religious -

and I like that she is not red-state born again in your face saying the word but not walking the deed/path

She does care about the poor - she walks the path.

[Goldeneye]

13. You should read this article from rawstory

http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/dara/question_of_hillary_020305.htm

I don't know where everyone is coming from on this Hillary thing, but the article is kind of an eye-opener as far as her "god talk" goes.

[tx_dem41]

20. She's a Christian, and always has been. Never hidden it.

What's the big surprise?

[Coastie for Truth]

21. You do NOT have to be an atheist to be a Leftie

Ever heard of Rev Martin Luther King Jr., Rev Jesse Jackson, Rev Jim Wallis, Rabbi Michael Lerner, and even my Grand Dad.

I am a faith based Leftie -- and proud of it.

[mopaul]

22. "I pray daily" "I am religious" " I love Jesus"...so who cares?

she's wearing it on her sleeve ALL OF A SUDDEN

[Frances]

24. Even Thomas Jefferson went to church when he was President

And he was the staunchest of separation of church and state people

[Negatron]

68. No, you don't have to be an atheist to be a leftie

But it helps.

Like it or not, religion is a BIG motivating force behind right-wing lunacy. Of course, this isn't the fault of decent, moderate religious people, it is the fault of hypocritical fundie cultists who are about as far from "Christ-like" as you can get. Religious fundamentalism is something we need to be distancing ourselves from, not apologizing for. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus anyway, so there shouln't be a problem with letting it go.

I am a fact-based leftie -- and proud of it.

[democrank]

23. Hillary made me nervous

with her Iraq War vote. No. I won`t vote for her.

[mopaul]

25. she is determined to inflict herself on us, like it or not

her and kerry supported bush's war, so they are persona non grata to me

[Pastiche423]

31. For real

Who is going to vote for her? Certainly not the repugs. Are there that many conservative Dem/Indies in the country?

As to her god talk - it is obvious (at least to me) that her DLC finger in the wind is telling her she must get religion if she has a chance at the presidency.

Dumb. Way dumb, IMHO.

[tx_dem41]

34. There are millions of conservative Dems/Indies in this country...

...they aren't wholly comfortable with either party (the Indies at least). So I say, "Smart, Way smart".

[Pastiche423]

50. Where did you get that figure?

I call bullshit.

This Indie still says...

Dumb. Way dumb.

[tx_dem41]

52. You don't believe that there are millions of Independents in this ..

country??? Well, not sure where to go from here, but I'll try.

The majority of voters are religious, conservative, liberal or moderate. If you were saying "conservative Indie" in your first post, then you are drinking the Republican Kool-Aid, that only conservatives are religious.

[Moderate Dem]

42. I don't support Hillary...

But your suspicians of her speaking about religion are also troubling.

Would you be more comfortable if she was an athiest?

[mopaul]

44. if she were an atheist, i'd prefer she keep it quiet

and i wish she'd keep her religion to herself as well.

[Placebo]

45. I couldn't care less if all she said was GOD GOD GOD...

as long as she didn't let it effect or shape her policy.

[ultraist]

53. I am sick of this insideous movement to nationalize Christianity

When you hear those religious reich rethug Senators talk, they sound like they are from countries that have theocracies.

Sometimes, I'm not sure if it's a Senator or a televangelist!

Why can't they stay focused on the Constitution when doing their job as an elected government official rather than infusing so much religious talk?

We are NOT an 'Onward Christian Soldiers' nation, one that's fighting Muslims across the globe.

It's UNPROFESSIONAL for them to abuse religion to get votes and comingle it with our lawmaking process.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. Sufficiently been dehumanized by the right

They had eight years to make her bealzubub. She is harmless to the right. I noticed recently that the right-wing talk show hosts have been talking about Kerry as if he is "crazy" as they did with Gore. They are attempting to dehumanize him too.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

56. She is WAY TOO spineless- standing up clapping at the SOTU?

Not even close to what We need as formidable opposition to the greatest tyranny this country has ever known
Remember handing over to Chimp the War Powers?
AND I listened to the speeches they all gave on the house floor when they gave the Chimp the right to invade countries-
---I REMEMBER like it was yesterday.----
Byrd gave one of the best speeches I've ever heard ! ever! and,
then Hillary
!!!!!@#@#$$%% !!!!----------OMyGoHHHHD!!!
she says QUOTE:" I TRUST YOU MISTER PRESIDENT, I TRUST YOU'LL DO THE RIGHT THING"

Un forgivable I will always hear those words echoing-->her SPINELESS voice permanently embedded in my memory.

[Pastiche423]

59. Unforgivable and unforgetable

The 1st 7/8 or so of her speech on October 10, 2002 was sounding good. I can still feel my jaw dropping as she ended her speech by kissing whistle ass' ass.

I will never support, nor vote for her again.

[Emboldened Chimp]

57. It's politics and nothing more

She's not trying to bring Democrats to religion, but religious people to the party. It's a fairly shrewd move, especially if we can weaken religious support for republicans. I'm not talking the fundamentalist types--they'll always vote for repubes; but she is trying to bring more moderate denominations into the Democratic fold.

[latebloomer]

58. All it does is confirm my poor opinion of her

Her religion should be a private matter and not trumpeted to the masses. She's making a play to rein in some of the faith-based crowd, and also to show that she's not pro-abortion.

Her votes for the Iraq war and the Patriot Act showed me that she will go along with almost anything in order to get along.

I can't see how anyone sees her as a viable candidate. The Right demonizes her and she has alienated a large sector of the Left.

[wadestock]

61. What evidence is there out of her mouth that she intends to run...

I've never read it.

Aside from Rush Limbaugh and other freepers pushing this to denegrade the party....where is the real evidence she wants to make a real run?

[Pepperbelly]

71. zero evidence. righties raise $ using her & lefties hyperventilate. nt

[mdmc]

64. poor Hill

God bless her...

[Tinoire]

65. Why Hillary and the DLC are now on a God Kick. Christian Coalition in DLC

The DLC has brought one of Ralph Reed's right hand men from the Christian Coalition, a PNAC signatory named Marshall Wittman on board and made him both a DLC and a PPI spokesperson/Sr, Advisor. He's listed right up there with Al From and Will Marshall.

Repost:
It is NOT by accident that the DLC and PPI are very close in philosophy to... elements on the other side. The DLC's latest acquisition from the neo-cons is a PNAC signatory named Marshall Wittman who was one of Ralph Reed's right hand men in the Christian Coalition. They think so highly of him that they made this "prodigal son" an official DLC spokesman and a Sr Advisor of the PPI (the DLC's version of the AEI). The gall.

The Christian Coalition is now in the Democratic Party courtesy of the DLC. It is little coincidence that we are suddenly hearing all this talk of "fath-based initiatives" in the party & politicians are mentioning "God" in every other sentence and letting us know how they just pray, and pray and pray several times a day.

We are in a fight for the soul of our party and they will stop at nothing. Big, big money at stake here. What we are fighting are the corporations, the Military Industrial complex, the National Endowment for Democracy, the neo think tanks, etc... Right now they're trying very hard to fracture the anti-war movement knowing full well that it's the glue holding many of us together because of our rage over Iraq and the political cohabitation that led to it. They will stop at nothing to divide us nor will they stop at anything to keep power.

We can't let them win. The stakes are too important.
==

Straight from the page of the DLC's neoliberal Progressive Policy Institute, they seem SO proud of their latest addition as they trumpet his "accomplishments":

PPI | Bio | September 22, 2004
Marshall Wittmann
Senior Fellow

Marshall Wittmann is a senior fellow at the Progressive Policy Institute. Previously, he was Director of Communications for Senator John McCain (R-AZ). Mr. Wittmann has served in various positions with the Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Christian Coalition, and in the administration of President George H. W. Bush.

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=87&subsecID=112&contentID=252919

*Here's the entire Staff list: http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_sub.cfm?knlgAreaID=87&subsecID=112


In order to find the right spokesperson, please contact our press office at [phone].

DLC Spokespersons:


Al From, founder and chief executive officer of the DLC.

Bruce Reed, president of the DLC.

Holly Page, vice president for strategic development for the DLC.

Ed Kilgore, policy director for the DLC.

Debbie Cox, chief of staff for the DLC.

Marshall Wittmann, senior fellow.

PPI Spokespersons:


Will Marshall, president and co-founder of the Progressive Policy Institute.

Rob Atkinson, vice president of the Progressive Policy Institute and director of PPI's Technology & New Economy Project.

Paul Weinstein Jr., chief operating officer of the Progressive Policy Institute and PPI senior fellow, covering issues of pension and tax reform, transportation policy, and corporate responsibility.

John Cohen, director of PPI's Community Crime Fighting Project.

Edward Gresser, director of PPI's Trade and Global Markets Project.

David Kendall, director of PPI's Health Priorities Project.

Jan Mazurek, director of PPI's Energy and The Environment Project.

Steven Nider, director of foreign and security studies.

Andrew Rotherham, director of PPI's 21st Century Schools Project.

Fred Siegel, PPI senior fellow, covering urban issues, smart growth, and transportation.

Marshall Wittmann, PPI senior fellow.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=85&contentid=1238



Marshall Wittman

Marshall Wittmann is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and one of the nation's most quoted analysts on political and congressional issues. He specializes in the growing role of the independent voter.

Prior to joining the Institute, Wittmann held notable positions in government and private institutions. In the private sector, he served as the Heritage Foundation's director of congressional relations both for the U.S. House and Senate. Wittmann also served as the Christian Coalition's director of legislative affairs. In the Bush Administration, he served as the deputy assistant secretary for the Department of Health and Human Services. Wittmann also was the legislative representative with the National Association of Retired Federal Employees and a public affairs specialist with the National Treasury Employees Union. He holds both his bachelor's and master's degrees from the University of Michigan.

Wittmann is widely quoted on issues concerning politics, elections and Congress. He has been published in The New York Times and The Washington Post.

http://pewforum.org/events/0410/wittmanbio.htm

You really have to get a load of this site!:

Bioethics
Death Penalty
Faith-Based Initiatives
Just War Tradition
Religion and Gay Marriage
Religion and Human Rights
Religion and Public Schools
Religion in American Public Life
Religion in Politics
School Vouchers
September 11 and Beyond

http://pewforum.org/issues /

====

At the Hudson Institute, he was the

Director, Project for Conservative Reform
Senior Fellow

http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_...

(the page was recently blanked out now that he's had a miraculous transformation from neo-con to Dem but the links of his name still point there).

And when you research Marshall Wittman + Conservative Reform, you discover that he left that to go manage John McCain's campaign (oh yeah, Wittman had managed Alan Keyes campaign at one time)

Bill Kristol and Marshall Wittman that they ran the "Conservative Reform" project together.

Really scary stuff...

[Negatron]

69. I'm not happy to learn this at all.

The DLC just took a big hit in my book.