Dean: Is he SMART enough to be your President?

[Octafish]

Does he have the brains for the job? I think not. He didn't remember endorsing a 70-year Social Security retirement age.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/6473340.htm

Does he have the temperment for the job? I think not. He gets mad answering questions, let alone opening his gubernatorial papers to see how the electric companies and Walmart got sweet deals in Vermont.

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/printer_6517.shtml

http://www.tnr.com/etc.mhtml?pid=540

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/vpr/news/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=441887

Does he have the "backbone" for the job? I think not. His back kept him out of Vietnam, but not off the slopes.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087543/

This adds up to a "Character" problem. The GOP would be sure to take advantage of him if he is the Democratic nominee.

Feel free to flame away or add. I'm a Democrat, not a Deaniecrat. I also believe DUers are free make their own choice.

[LeftCoast]

1. Well, he's smart enough to become a DOCTOR

This has got to be the lowest, lamest criticism ever. ESPECIALLY considering who the fucking president is right now.

Feh.

[Octafish]

66. Bush IS the worst (p)resident ever. Besides being an un-elected fraud...

... the Little Turd from Crawfurd is the public face of the world's leading crime organization. The Bush Family Evil Empire, for want of a better term, literally rules the world military and economically.

Through military force, terrorism and extortion — applied in a fashion unimagined by Ian Fleming — the BFEE sets the terms and conditions for all things financial, business, and trade. It launders trillions in ill-gotten gains through corrupt banks and offshore tax havens and shakes down and buries all those who oppose it. Through its policies and drugs, it enslaves populations, loots treasuries and maintains perpetual war. Its enemies disappear.

Don't believe me? There's an FBI memo that talks about "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" wanting to get debriefed over some people he suspects of being "involved in the assassination of President Kennedy." That story should have generated more press than it did, but at least Covert Action Information Bulletin and a very few small publications carried it.

Many DUers know all that. I don't think Dean ever will. Kerry does. And Kerry'll bust 'em.


http://www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Order_of_Skull/part_7.htm

http://prorev.com/bush2.htm

[newsguyatl]

68. and many of you kerry supporters

say that DEAN FOLKS post flamebaits and trash?


i CHALLENGE =ANY= of you to find ONE SINGLE THREAD that comes close to the nastiness that this one has.


octafish- you've proven what a real "trooper" you are tonight. you should rest tonight feeling proud of the hate-filled trash you've posted. you've really done your part for democracy today.

[Octafish]

77. Specify the "nastiness." My post was about DEAN, not you.

It wasn't nasty to any DUers. It's easy to see more than a few responses took it personally. Not my problem.

Regarding your 'CHALLENGE:" Find them yourself. Do something constructive for Democracy.

[LeftCoast]

87. Kerry deserves better than your type of help

Kerry is a good Democrat and has many qualities that would make him a great President. I happen to feel Dean has more and that's why I support him over Kerry. That having been said, Kerry does not need you tearing down other good Democrats to make him look better. It does not.

[Andy_Stephenson]

92. "Dean, Dean , Dean.....

Dean, Dean"

John Kerry 9/9/03

[Octafish]

133. Kerry's talking BFEE media.

All Korporat Pravda wants to cover is Howie the Weenie. Day and night, all week long. Just watch, it'll go clear until the gavel closes the Democratic convention next summer. Then it'll be all glorious leader Bushler, the beard of the BFEE.

The BFEE want to face the weakest Democrat possible. That's why ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker Dean is getting all the attention. See this interesting article, with documentation, links, and lots of pictures for BFEE-enablers:

Is Howard Dean the Crypto-Republican Candidate?

Why is the Republican-owned media giving Howard Dean multi-million dollar media attention? That's the question no one's asking.

Dean made the covers of both Time and Newsweek, was interviewed by Larry King, was the subject of a US News Special, and receives continuing major coverage on all the "news" channels: MSNBC, CNN, and Fox.

Even Dean's campaign manager, Joe Trippi, appeared on CNBC's Capital Report, was interviewed on Fox News' Fox Facts, and was interviewed on CNN's Inside Politics--all in July, 2003. Why is Dean the only Democratic candidate to be given this kind of coverage?

The Republicans and their media hirelings would have us believe that they're giving Dean the spotlight because he's an Internet phenomenon, that he's the leading Democratic contender, and because he represents the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" (a line Dean stole from the late Senator Paul Wellstone). None of the media's claims are true.

CONTINUED...

http://www.hermes-press.com/HDean/dean_republican.htm

The folks at Hermes Press are NOT Dean bashers. Check out their sight and discover some profound stuff that's non-political, too.

[sangh0]

112. You want nasty

Check some of seventhson's threads

[screembloodymurder]

2. He's a hell of a lot smarter than the one we got

and he might even be honest to boot.

[Octafish]

83. Agreed. Dean is a SMART man.

But is he smart ENOUGH to take on the BFEE?

Most interesting of all: Is Dean WILLING to take on the BFEE?

From what I can see of his background, I don't think so.

[Larkspur]

3. Kerry voted for a war based upon fraudulent data

therefore, because he can easily be duped by a Dope, he's incompetent to be President.

Case closed.

[Demobrat]

25. You really think he was duped? I don't.

I think he voted for the war because he was afraid to stand up to Bush. So much for the war hero.

[tedoll78]

4. I can see the commercial now!

"Frustration: by Calvin Klein."

Wanna audition for the part of Frustrated Kerry Supporter #3?

[tedoll78]

10. And BTW..

I hardly doubt that the Doc would see this accusation in the general election.

That, and he's not stupid enough to vote for a blank check.

[Doug Decker]

5. He was smart enough to get into medical school...

and run Vermont as its governor.

I haven't picked a candidate yet and will vote ABB, but

THIS PETTY FIGHTING BETWEEN DEMOCRATS IS DISGUSTING AND MUST STOP.

[Octafish]

84. To be a doctor requires brains and compassion.

And it's true, Dean has plenty of both. And he has to be dedicated to a cause to become a politician to increase his "sphere of influence." The country's problems, from national defense to the emerging fiscal crisis, require someone with more EXPERIENCE, let alone temperment.

BTW: Sorry to take the negative tack. The subject is beating Bush. It's just that I got tired of hearing this shit from the last 48 hours:

Kerry's Cowardice May Cost Us the Election

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=302918

John Kerry, (man for the people), Wal Mart investor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=298186

Is Kerry setting up his next “excuse”?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=305633

How many homes does John Kerry own?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=297811

PS: sfecap apologized for starting some of this stuff in a separate thread. Still, to paraphrase Kerry:

Bash Kerry.

Bash Kerry.

Bash Kerry.

Bash Kerry.

[soleft]

6. Months before Dean even announced his candidacy

I heard a doctor from Vermont was thinking about running for President. I had a gut feeling at that moment that a better than average intelligence was set to return to the white house.

[CMT]

7. famous quote by Bernard Beruch regarding FDR

and running for president: "He has a second class intellect, but a first class temperment." Of course FDR went on to be pretty classy president on all grounds.

Yes of course Dean is intelligent enough to be president. He was a first rate Governor and he is a medical physician and it takes some brains to do this.

These anti-candidate posts are becoming more and more desperate.

[Ardee]

91. Loyalty is fine,as is enthusiasm

but you Deanies are almost cult like in your slavish devotion to him, and your knee jerk reactions against any criticism of him.
From the very first I had real questions about Deans leanings, based not on the novelty of his campaigns usage of the internet but on the very real problems I had with his decisions as governor of Vermont.

This thread starter linked to some of those problems yet I fail to see anyone directly addressing Deans obvious pandering to corporate interests and cutting services to seniors and defunding education and weakening environmental protection while governor.

Considering that Dean has waffled repeatedly on issues ,considering that he has refused to consider cuts in defense spending I do not believe him to be what he represents himself to be.....

[DemBones DemBones]

137. Very well-stated. Too much enthusiasm, not enough critical

thinking/ analysis by Dean's supporters. Dean flip flops, waffles, makes foolish, verifiably false statements about being the "only" this, the "only" that. His supporters ignore his failings, complain when others point them out.

[Andy_Stephenson]

97. Maybe because some candidates are

getting desperate.

[madfloridian]

8. He's so damn dumb I think I will make another donation.

n/t

BTW, this is totally out of control.

[wtmusic]

9. That all you can come up with?

That makes him the ONLY candidate, AFAIC.

[Clete]

11. I am very impressed with Dean and will vote for him in the

primaries. I think we have good choices among all the candidates with the exception of the DINO. So I will have no problem voting for anyone of them when the winner emerges. So please save your trashing for Dubya and the Oil cabal rearranging the world to suit themselves. We should be praising our candidate of choice and pointing out why he would be the best President not insulting each others choice of candidates.

[quinnox]

12. Dean is a weak candidate

And it is funny to see all the self-righteous anger from Deanies about this thread, when there are threads talking about Kerry's number of homes and his 'cowardice'. Talk about desperate.

[StopTheMorans]

18. how's he weak Quinnox?

in which areas? How is your candidate better than Dean overall? And yes, today at the Anti-Ashcroft protest in Boston, we were talking about how absurd and utterly ridiculous the anti-kerry threads were yesterday. Any of these absurd anti-candidate posts deserve scorn, but you call others desperate when the shoe is on the other foot.

[quinnox]

23. It's bound to happen

When the kinds of threads you refer to are put forth on a daily basis about Kerry, there is bound to be some from the other side about Dean. I don't think this is surprising.

[StopTheMorans]

24. it's bound to happen and it's damn sad

like i said, very few were happy about the ridiculous threads that kept being posted, mostly by one poster, yesterday. However, you dropped the "Dean is a weak candidate" line, would you like to back it up with how your candidate is so much better? :)

[quinnox]

26. I don't feel like getting in a debate

about this, it's pointless.

[StopTheMorans]

28. alright, then don't make comments

that are completely unequivocal, and I won't call you on them. Fair enough:)?

[CMT]

32. sorry but Dean is attacked daily by some Kerry people

at least two or three very prominent ones who I won't name but if you look in politics and campaigns that is where they usually hang out. I'm not condoning any attack threads against any of our candidates but I don't think you should imply that the Kerry people are innocent and only attack after their candidate is attacked. That is false. Every campaign has its aggressors. Not just Dean's.

[Woodstock]

39. Two wrongs don't make a right

And most of us on this thread don't post those threads.

[nochimp04]

70. watch out for 16 post apologists............................

n/t.

[WilliamPitt]

13. He's stupid. Dumb as a post. All the candidates are. I'm voting Bush.

[Jacobin]

19. lol

that about sums it up.

As if there could be a more incompetent and mentally challenged person seeking to be re-elected.

[Clete]

30. Good for you Will.

I'm writing in Homer Simpson.

[Blue_Roses]

71. LOL!

n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

86. Your kind words are truly appreciated.

In the future, I'll try to remember how I come across when writing about a candidate. From what I understand, I am free to state my observations, opinions and thoughts here as long as it refers to the candidates.

The idea is to find the best man or woman for the job. I don't think or believe that's Dean. That's based on his record. I try not to make it personal, against Dean or his supporters. When I fall short, I admit to it.

BTW: The candidate I prefer has a history of putting his country ahead of his own interests. John Kerry's actions, as recorded in the minutes and reports of the US Senate over the past 19 years, show he's committed to building a better nation for ALL Americans and keeping American a free nation.

[bif]

15. He may be too smart to be president

This country doesn't like someone in charge who's smarter than they are. That's why they didn't like Gore. They picked (I know, he really stole the WH) a man who's possibly the dumbest person ever to be president.

[Jonte_1979]

16. Is this thread constructive?

I think not.

[StopTheMorans]

17. Sheer desperation and idiocy

cite a few facts, and draw a conclusion from only those facts. That is the kind of reasoning fundies and republicans use, along the lines of "I have an orange house, and my neighor has an orange house, these are the only houses I can see, therefore, all houses must be orange." Sorry, this thread is beyond absurd.

[Octafish]

99. If it didn't have links, some would say: "LINK?"

So I backed up what my contentions were. Sure, the ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker is plenty smart. But that doesn't necessarily make him smart enough to solve the problems facing America.

For starters: How's he going to balance the budget, even if he restores Bush's tax cuts? Cut defense? Cut Social Security? Medicaid? He said he's "mad" about the problems, but doesn't say how he intends to solve them.

http://www.moveon.org/pac/cands/dean.html

Of course, all that assumes he can be elected. There's no link for that.

[ComerPerro]

20. Oh yeah, Im sure the GOP is anxious to jump all over these platforms

Get real.

Can you see the GOP attacking Dean for being a "moron", then adding "vote for George W Bush"?

Can you see them questioning Dean's Vietnam issues despite Bush's pathetic record?

Can you see them attacking any "sweet business deals" considering Cheney's relationship with Haliburton?

Can you see them accusing him of being intolerant or impatient, after watching even one press conference with Rumsfeld of Fleischer. And besides, at least Dean speaks to the press. Bush does not.


I really don't think that these are big concerns, as far as potential for smear campagins. I don't think the administration wants to open up their vulnerabilities.

[tedoll78]

27. Add..

civil unions to the list of issues. Dean and Cheney's positions are so close that the GOP really can't label him "extreme" for it because he can simply play a video of the 2000 VP debate in response. If Dean is extreme on it, so too is Cheney.

[Ardee]

93. Oh I get it

elect someone who parallels Bush....some strategy.

[Kolesar]

21. "My" Ignore list is growing fast

"I also believe DUers are free make their own choice. "

[Woodstock]

40. I call it my "Children" list

As in, if it gets full enough, maybe I'll only be talking to people who are, or who aspire to be, adults.

[Kolesar]

90. Politics/Campaign forum has become a playroom full of scattered toys

I used to go there and read threads about congressional and governor's races from far corners of the country. Posters used to write about techniques for analyzing the electorate and post strategies and tactics that suit particular demographics. Now it is just Howard Dean's supporters vs. those who think their candidate is better, with the lowest standards of discourse.

[pruner]

22. this guy made a choice

http://www.switch2dean.com/steve.html

[MercutioATC]

43. A prolific anti-Dean member here once posted that he, along with

some shadowy elite cadre, had convinced over 10,000 Dean supporters to switch to Kerry. Surely if that was true,they'd be able to come up with a site like this....

[pruner]

44. so did she

http://www.switch2dean.com/liz.html

[VolcanoJen]

29. He's most certainly "smart" enough!!!

Fercryinoutloud.... of course he's qualified. I have no difficulty whatsoever with Dean's resume and qualifications.

[Solly Mack]

31. Shrub proves a dish towel is smart enough to wear the label

not that he's President...

and quite frankly, a republican attacking a democrat on character is "for to laugh"....

[indigo32]

33. Octafish

this is lame. So were the posts about Kerry's money and investments yesterday. But do two wrongs make a right?

And whats this crap about "I also believe DUers are free to make their own choice" Are you trying to imply others don't feel that way or what? Of course we can all make our own choices.

[library_max]

34. "My Candidate Sucks So Bad That I Have To Attack Yours"

All hail CoffeePlease1947! He has come up with the perfect formula for dispelling all these negative campaign threads! All you Dean-bashers, Kerry-bashers, any-Democrat-bashers, please repeat after me: “MY CANDIDATE SUCKS SO BAD THAT I HAVE TO ATTACK YOURS.”

If I were a Bush supporter, I would be ROFLMAO to see all these Democrats ripping each other to pieces. My candidate in the general election is Anybody But Bush. As for the primaries, I haven’t decided yet. Amazing, ain’t it? Considering that the primaries are only six months away.

Come on, ladies and gentlemen! Unity, please! Eyes on the prize! BUCK FUSH!

[Octafish]

81. Agree, library_max.

I got tired of hearing this trash. From the last 48 hours:


Kerry's Cowardice May Cost Us the Election

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=302918


John Kerry, (man for the people), Wal Mart investor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=298186


Is Kerry setting up his next “excuse”?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=305633


How many homes does John Kerry own?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=297811

PS: sfecap apologized for starting some of this stuff in a separate thread. There are more examples, but I don't have the time or desire to find them.

[indigo32]

106. sfecap is a single poster who started most of thse threads

plus you are making the accusation that two wrongs make a right?

[indigo32]

107. sfecap is a single poster who started most of thse threads

plus you are making the accusation that two wrongs make a right?

[indigo32]

108. sfecap is a single poster who started most of thse threads

plus you are making the accusation that two wrongs make a right?

[Robin Hood]

35. The question should be, Is he stupid enough?

Obviously Al Gore was head and shoulders smarter than dim son, but that's not what half of America wants. Hell, perhaps the dumber the better.

The dumb and dumber ticket.

[Cha]

36. And kerry voted to give "stump" the power for attacking Iraq...

does that make him a dupe, dope, or politically expedient?

[Woodstock]

37. Gee, thanks for the positive info about Kerry

Oh, wait, no, nothing here.

This is the old, let's attack Dean, and maybe then people will start supporting Kerry strategy.

OK, if you say so.

Ever thought you could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

Maybe a good old pro-Kerry thread would be more effective than a Dean bashing one?

We don't get too many of the former, but LOTS of the latter.

Be original.

[Octafish]

46. FYI: Here's one of my MANY pro-Kerry threads.

Note the scintillating repartee:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=188065

Give me time, and I'll fish up dozens of other pro-Kerry examples. Hundreds if I go back to DU1.

They each are original posts. The turds who crapped on them are not.

[Cha]

49. That's not very nice...calling DUers ...."turds"....

but not surprising.

[Octafish]

50. Your words, not mine. Then again...

...that's as good a way as any as creating a false impression. And the impression I first had about you was that you were interested first in kicking the BFEE in the teeth and kicking the Little Turd from Crawford clear out of the White House. Reading how you react to any criticism of Howard Dean, the candidate you think is capable of doing that, makes me certain that your candidate doesn't have the critical faculties, backbone, or experience the job requires.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Woodstock]

41. Amen, SweetZombieJesus!

I call my Ignore list my "Children" list - I'm not into being a parent, so maybe my "Orphan" list would be more apt. :)

[Octafish]

103. Here's what JFK said about the draft:

"A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. Today's military rejects include tomorrow's hard-core unemployed."

Like the US economy, the deferments must have changed during Vietnam. Some rejects got to rise up through the ranks, as it were...stockbroker, oilman (doctor), governor.

[blm]

42. Dean is CLEVER enough

to do lots of things.

[dean4america]

45. worthless thread

let's see, he graduate from Yale, worked on Wall Street, became a Doctor, was a 5-term governor who balanced budgets and delivered health care...

[Octafish]

47. Thanks for the input!

The ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker never seems to find a job he really likes. Do you think he would like being president or do you think he would quit once he got tired or bored? There IS a pattern, you know.

[Cha]

48. That's a very strange almost twilight zonish comment to make on

someone who keeps getting Better in Life!

I admire Dean for All his accomplishments and every experience he has had to make him so Qualified to be our President and lead us out of this Quagmire that the bushwa has steeped us in.

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. I agree with you as an ex-hairstylist,ex-insurance adjustor, and now

appraiser.

[CMT]

60. you're really stretching on this one

Dean was a practicing physician up until he came into office when Gov. Snelling died. As a matter of fact he was seeing a patient at the time he heard the news. Yep, even as a state rep and Lt. Gov, Dean was still a practicing physician, so it isn't like he always changes jobs. Afterall he was governor for over a decade.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Wow, another candidate bashing thread from Octafish. Why am I not

surprised??? Find something a little more constructive to do with your time, like supporting the Democratic/Green party.

Thanks, Laura

[Octafish]

61. You support the Greens. I'm a Democrat.

BTW: If you're so concerned about bashing candidates, why don't you speak up when the Deanies bash on Kerry?

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I have and will continue to speak up on the relentless bashing of all

candidates.Especially when uneducated. You just seem to have focused on bashing, bashing, and hey wait, more bashing. It would be wonderful to get some real discussions going here. One thing you will never catch me doing on a thread is calling a candidate not smart. Not even Kerry, who I'll support if he gets the nomination.

Good luck in whatever it is you are trying to prove.

[Patriot_Spear]

52. Jesus, the topic line of this thread is insulting...

That anyone could ask such a question after BUSH!?

Christ, this is the most half-baked attack I've seen yet...

[uptohere]

53. there is no credible way to suggest he is not smart... no way

It is possible to suggest that he does not possess the skills needed to excel as a polititian.

You DO have to remember a lot of details. Being a doc he CAN remember a lot of details but he has not done so for this run.

You DO have to be in total control of your emotions and be able to use expression, body language and otatory to make points and project strength and control. He has not learned this well.

He has nothing if not backbone, not sure where that comes from.

All that being said, he DOES have many months to work on this. And he is smart enough to learn it.

[gully]

54. YUP! n/t

[seventhson]

55. Center for Public Integrity Report on Kerry. Is Dean RICH enough to beat..

Kerry, who's worth damn near a BILLION DOLLARS according to
this report on "the buying of the President 2004):

http://www.bop2004.org/dtaweb/bop2004/default.aspx?SECTION=CANDIDATE&CID=4.


I was searching for the details on the Kerry real estate connections to his cousin's business, which is mentioned - along with the alleged shenanigans in Vietnam real estate deals worth BILLIONS more. It's NOT just a BFEE lie about that.

Kerry is worth between TWO HUNDRED MILLION and EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there is this interesting tidbit there:

"In 1991 the Senate created the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs to investigate the possibility that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam. Acting as chairman, Kerry helped persuade the group to vote unanimously that no American servicemen still remained in Vietnam. In doing so, he helped begin the process of normalizing U.S.-Vietnamese relations.

"But Kerry’s participation in the Committee became controversial in December 1992 when Hanoi announced that it had awarded Colliers International, a Boston-based real estate company, an exclusive deal to develop its commercial real estate potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the CEO of Colliers, is Kerry’s cousin."


KERRY IS FOR THE COMMON MAN, ALRIGHT. THE COMMON SKULL AND BONES MAN

JEESH OCTAFISH!!! THIS THREAD IS A NEW LOW. BUT IT REALLY HELPS DEAN, MAN, SO THANKS FOR IT.

[Octafish]

74. That's a lot of money. His wife's money.

And she got it when her first husband died in the airplane-helicopter accident. Sen. Heinz was one of the few Liberal Republicans who stood up to the Reich wing.

BTW: Kerry has long favored Campaign Finance Reform. Dean recently opened his position to allow his campaign to opt out of Federal matching funds. Gee. That's the cornerstone of the little CFR we got.

[seventhson]

96. Yeah, Heinz betrayed his Skull Bros. and was turned into Catsup...

and WHERE does the money end up?

Financing the campaign of another Skull: John Kerry.

HOW MUCH money did he have BEFORE the marriage to Theresa?

How much money is HIS and how much HERS?

You tell me that and then your case might be a WEE bit stronger.

Thing is, Kerry can finance his own campaign with his own money (he apparently cannot use HERS). But how much IS that?

The Kerry-Forbes like the Bush-Walkers are Yankee blue bloods (although Kerry had an apparently hidden Jewish grandfather who may or may not have been known by anyone as a Jew). There money and its origin is generally from parasitic capitalist ventures and criminality. The Forbes fortune was based on the Chinese Opium trade from the 1800's according to many sources.

It is easy to say he does not need contributions when his family already has sucked so mcuh money out of the rest of us.

I LIKE Heinz Ketchup. But it bugs me to have to give money to Kerry for his Skulliness.

[LWolf]

56. Yes.

I'm not a Dean supporter; I'm a DK supporter. That doesn't have anything to do with how "smart" Dean is or isn't. It has to do with the fact that another candidate more closely matches my issues. I'm campaigning for my choice. Dennis Kucinich all the way. But, should Dean get the nod, I'll happily vote for him. He's more than smart enough to take *.

[frank frankly]

57. Have you heard Dean speak?

Clearly he is intelligent.

But yours was not an intelligent question.

[Octafish]

59. Of course.

Yes, obviously. How do you know?

[frank frankly]

62. Please define "smart" for me.

Who is "smart" to you?

[Forkboy]

64. Kerry I bet

who was so smart Bush fooled him.

[Octafish]

101. Here's a smart guy. A man of vision. A great teacher. A real leader..

His name was John F. Kennedy. He had the leadership and courage to unite America behind his vision of the future. He was working to build a better country for ALL Americans when he was cut down by the bullets of assassins 40 years ago.

Unlike those who weren't alive then and others who refuse to remember, I have not "gotten over it." In fact, a good case can be made that the BFEE, for lack of a better term, is complicit in that act of terror and treason.

You can bet someone else who hasn't forgotten is the smart fellow on the left, a young John F. Kerry. Notice how he's looking ahead to the horizon, as his political idol at center. Scanning the horizon for trouble and opportunity shows they are smart fellows and real leaders.

And you know what? John Kerry has got the backbone to find out who killed his friend, President Kennedy. You know what else? If he has to, he'll kick George Bush out of the White House to do it.



“Leadership and learning are indispensable to each another.” — John F. Kennedy

[Forkboy]

111. Well thats all well and good about JFK

but he's not running :eyes:

[Octafish]

132. Wrong, again. JFK is the Democratic Senator from Massachusetts...

... running for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States of America. And like the other JFK in 1960, John F. Kerry is the best qualified candidate for the office.

Seeing how you're interested in the subject, here's a handy comparison I posted on DU1 a long time ago that explains why:

Parallels between John Fitzgerald Kennedy & John Forbes Kerry

Home State: Massachusetts
Occupation when running for President: US Senator
Political Party: Democratic
Party Wing: Liberal
Foreign Policy: Keep America Strong and Respect Other Nations
Domestic Policy: ALL Americans are Equal and Deserve to Enjoy the Nation's Bounty
Combat Veteran: US Navy
Actions include: Courage Under Fire and Rescuing Men Under His Command In Combat
John F. Kennedy Decorations include: Purple Heart, Navy & Marine Corps Medal
John F. Kerry Decorations include: Three Purple Hearts, Bronze Star with "V" for Valor, Silver Star

Kerry, like Kennedy, have earned some resume. No wonder Rove soaks his Depends anytime mentions the initials "JFK." Cheney orders a double Scotch when he hears them. And you know they won't let the Little Turd from Crawfurd hear about anything JFK, so he probably doesn't even know what he's in for come the Fall of 2004.

So, like his political hero and childhood idol, John F. Kerry is the real deal. Kerry has done more in the service of this country than ANY other candidate. Practically his entire adult life has been devoted to making America a better place.
As a US Navy commanding officer, he volunteered for the most dangerous missions. He earned a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts for gallantry in combat.

When he came home, he did all he could to end the war as a civilian. He helped form the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testified before Congress, framing the issue with his question: "How do you ask a man to die for a mistake?"

When he was a Massachusetts DA, he busted the Mafia. Not just anybody, Kerry went after a well-connected big shot who had friends in high places. His work led to the nomination for candidate as Lt. Governor, which he won.

As a Senator, he's known for going after the crooks in even higher places and on both sides of the aisle. He busted Ollie North and the drug-runners sending the Contras money, as well as the Iranian terrorists banking at Clark Clifford's BCCI, the corrupt bank that helped terrorists, drug runners, the S&L crooks, the KGB, and the rogue CIA move their loot around the world. If you look into that, you'll find connections to this very day — from Selection 2000 to 9-11. Google Kerry with Adnan Khashoggi and/or Richard Perle and/or Orrin Hatch and/or BCCI, for instance. YOU'LL SEE THE HEART OF THE BFEE.

His support of Liberal causes is clear: Kerry has an 18-year voting record where he has demonstrated his support of labor, women's issues, the environment, education, small businesses and other issues of conern to ALL the people.

Regarding the Iraq war vote: Kerry did what he thought was best for protecting the United States from further attack. Remember, 9-11? Kerry does and he'll damn sure remember to investigate it and who's at fault — here and abroad — and make certain it doesn't happen again.

As President, John F. Kerry would bust the Bush Organized Crime Family and send the bloody lot of them to prison for the rest of their natural days. That's why Smirk, Sneer, Turd Blossom and the rest of them are crapping their pants worrying about John F Kerry. He's the real deal and he's going to put a world of hurt on the crooks.

BTW: What have you got against all that? Do you think Dean would lift a finger against the BFEE?

[frank frankly]

134. Has Kerry said he would investigate JFK's murder?

I would be all for that!

[Octafish]

136. You got it, frank! Kerry will bust the BFEE.

I don't know the answer, frank. I hope he does and should I get the chance to ask Sen. Kerry, I will.

The JFK assassination is where the BFEE went public. The continuing media cover-up of the public "state"-sponsored execution stands as proof of the extent of the conspiracy.

What "state" is that? A secret fascistic and satanic elite that believes property comes before people, war is peace. Not only the nation's richest individuals and corporations, their real property includes their public toadies, the Congress, the Courts, and currently, the Presidency.

One of their other major real properties, is the news media. So, if Kerry mentions anything like he's interested in checking out the JFK murder, he'll be labeled a conspiracy nut. So be it.

Oops! Too late. Then-US Rep. Dick Cheney (R-Thug) called him a "conspiracy kook" back when Kerry was investigating the BCCI scandal.

That is why I am so adamantly for him. John Kerry is the only candidate in my lifetime — I'm 46 — who's had ALL the needed credentials to bust the BFEE. May the Good Lord protect him in his efforts.



John Kerry joined President John F. Kennedy to watch the September 1962 America's Cup race
from the USS Joseph P. Kennedy off Newport, Rhode Island.

[jcgadfly]

142. Kerry will bust the BFEE?

I hope he can/does. My only question is "When?"

If he waits till after he's elected, it's too late because all you'll hear is "Wag the dog. What about fixing x,y,z?"

He doesn't appear to want to do it now or he'd have done it. How high do Bush's "high crimes and misdemeanors" have to be?

If he drops it later in the general campaign (in a debate, for example) the media will dismiss it as the attacks of a desparate man.

[kutastha]

63. Can the admins...

...make a candidate-bashing forum?

I swear.. over the past couple years there's been some humdingers of heated discussion here on DU, but having to weed through endless posts bashing other democratic candidates is becoming unbearable. Each one sounds like it was an advertisement put together by someone's campaign group and then results in a "Why my candidate is better than your candidate" routine. For crying out loud, DUers are so much more politically aware than 99% of the population, and they're not likely to read a post like this and say, "Hey man, you're right! Dean blows!"

So maybe a "Why Your Candidate Sucks Forum" would be a great addition. People can bitch and whine all they want in there and have at it.

[Forkboy]

65. Nahh

it's more fun watching people like Octafish make boobs of themselves for all to see.

[Octafish]

69. Not needed. All you have to do is not read what you don't like.

While I am not popular with people who support Dean and loathed by the Greens, I do try to be honest about my leanings and motivations. I even try to use an honest headline:

"Dean: What I Don't Like about the Guy (A Hatchet Job)."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=65346

BTW: Here's an example of a "False Flag" operation:



I got the addresses all fixed, Mr. Bannister.

[Forkboy]

72. honest?

bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh hey,and guess what-I'm not a Dean supporter or a Green.

[Octafish]

80. Good for you.

You must be for someone you think is smart.

BTW: What part of:

"Dean: What I Don't Like about the Guy (A Hatchet Job)."

is dishonest? Not the title. Do you have a problem with the content? My contribution is accurate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=65346

[VermontDem2004]

119. How is citing a right wing columnist

being honest? :shrug:

[Octafish]

135. So I put in TWO additional sources.

Gee. I thought that WAS being honest. Certainly it's more honest than failing to mention that's what I did.

[hedgetrimmer]

73. dean is so smart, smart enough to be my emperor, smart enough to

fool all my friends and family and at least 1/4 of all the du users ... hey thats pretty smart!

[sangh0]

113. Good point!!

.

[Evanstondem]

75. Another Kerry Flamethrower

Please go hang out with the other flamethrowers over at Politics & Campaigns.

[Room101]

76. Octafish ------ you are on my ignore list

I will not dignify your post with a response

[stickdog]

78. Is Bush smart enough to your shoeshine boy? (NT)

[Octafish]

102. No. Shoeshine boys are smart and hard-working.

Shoe shine boys work hard and smart. They have to do a good job and work fast. They also must be intelligent and interested in what their customers say or don't say. Otherwise, they don't receive TIPS.

Both concepts are alien to Bush, who's been handed every single thing he's ever wanted. Of course, his palm has been well greased, er, lubed his entire life.

[Stuckinthebush]

79. Crap...pure and simple

Tell me why Kerry should be president. I don't give a rat's ass what you think about Dean. I want to hear what you think about your horse in this race.

Coming to GD is like dealing with my 6 and 4 year olds. This sophomoric behavior is tiring.

[Ein]

82. Simple argument to this post.

George Walker Bush Jr.

[haymaker]

85. Is Octafish smart enough to pitch a tent?

I think not.

[Octafish]

131. I may not know enough to pitch a tent.

But I am smart enough to have read more than one book since graduation from high school.

Something else I know is a fraud when I see one. Howard Dean is not presidential material. The guy doesn't have the temperment, the intellect, the backbone or the brains for the job.

Something else I know: Saying so really brings out the worst in some people. It also seems to bring out the worst people.

While it would be tempting to characterize your obvious intelligence, I won't. There's no need to because no matter how hard you try, haymaker, you always sound like Karl Rove — zero compassion for those with whom you disagree.

[dudeness]

88. LOL....look at your current president..

I think a brick has more brains than bush..any current democrat nominee would do laps around bush as far as intelligence goes..

[ibegurpard]

89. You ain't doing Kerry any favors.

:puke:

[Octafish]

100. So you say. Sitting back and taking it on the chops is worse.

Funny how you say it's OK to slam Kerry, no matter how slanderous the accusation, but get so enraged when someone points out the FACTS about Howad Dean. Here's what "steel balls" editorial cartoonist and essayist Ted Rall has to say about him:


Love Me, I'm (Not Really) a Liberal

By Ted Rall

Liberal Democrats Project Their Desires onto Howard Dean

MONTPELIER, VERMONT--Howard Dean, media-anointed Lord of the Left and Prince Protector of Progressivism, is surfing a tsunami of Democratic discontent that could carry him to the White House. But as Vermonters tell anyone who's willing to listen, the former governor they call "Ho-Ho" is at best a leftie-come-lately. "The Howard Dean you are seeing on the national scene is not the Dean that we saw around here for the last decade. He's moved sharply left," says John McClaughry of the Ethan Allen Institute, a rightie think tank, of Dean's campaign rhetoric.

Vermont created proto-gay marriage "civil unions" during Dean's term--but that was the state Supreme Court's doing, not his. Even though Vermont's constitution didn't require him to balance the budget, he was a fierce deficit hawk who vetoed proposed Democratic spending. He sided with ski resort owners over environmentalists. And when big business called, he always picked up the phone. "We would meet privately with him three to four times a year to discuss our issues, and his secretary of commerce would call me once a week just to see how things were going," gushes IBM's John O'Kane.

According to Vermonters, Dean is a shrewd operator who saw millions of anti-Iraq war demonstrators last spring for what they were: untapped Democratic primary voters. A few well-placed verbal broadsides spread his reputation as the only presidential contender willing to go after Bush while other Democrats remained silent or supported his war. His opportunistic Bush-bashing attracted liberal voters tired of being taken for granted and disgusted by do-nothing "Republican Lite" Dems.

Liberals are driving Dean's come-from-nowhere campaign, but they don't share his take on most issues. "If he gets the nomination, he'll run back to the center and be more mainstream," predicts Republican resort owner Bill Stenger. "He was not a left-wing wacko."

CONTINUED...

http://thomasmc.com/0813b.htm

[indigo32]

105. Taking what on the chops?

this is not gonna win anybody over.

[ibegurpard]

109. Where in my post did I say it was okay to slam Kerry?

I stated my opinion in several gratuitous Kerry-bashing posts recently (the one that comes to mind is how many houses he owned) that I thought it was ridiculous. His position on important issues is another matter however (as is Dean's). Questioning whether or not Dean is smart enough to be president is asinine and it does NOTHING to help your candidate. If you're going to reply to me then please address my points and not your projections.

[RetroLounge]

94. This is without a doubt the stupidest freaking post

I've seen yet.

With supporters like you, I have to wonder about Kerry's chances.

Isn't there another forum for these type's of threads?

I mean, like Politics, althought the other one I thought of applies too.

[CWebster]

95. Oh look, another Dean-bashing thread...

Sounds like sour grapes....Dean musta done well last night compared to Kerry-( who couldn't give a straight answer....lol...)

[seventhson]

98. Good Cops/Bad Cops ---Good Kerry Cops/Bad Kerry Cops

We know who you are.

Those who flame away at Dean or Gore or whoever threatens you. Then there are those who are kinda nice about Dennis or even Dean but who try to REASONABLY defend the proBush Kerry agenda (the only agenda Kerry has that differs from Bush, is whose ass sits at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in that oval office chair)

I almost began to think that this was a Rove strategy to male Kerry look bad in the event he managaes to beat Dean; it was so transparently stupid and counterproductive.

But that doesn't add up.

So then again maybe the real effort is to denigrate Dean at any cost to boost Kerry. A good cop bad cop tag team of posters who take the low roads and the high roads and then meet in the shadows to plan their strategy here at DU. spooky (I'm chillin')!!!

This sounds like a Kerry strategy as Kerry is desperate. I'm sure Kerry has hired dozens if not more college and unemployed geeks to wander around the boards and denigrate Dean and boost Kerry --- and start trouble in general. Especially here at the most influential of leftish democratic political websites. It would be imperative that a last stand is made here before the primaries (and during them). I suspect it will get nastier and people will get banned as all the spooky skullish stops are pulled out and the favored posters tip closer and closer to the edge.

I know I would use this good cop/bad cop strategy if I were not as smart as Dean and did not know how to do it right and just wanted to do anything to disrupt the other candidates and I had unlimited funds : I would probably make the same stupid-ass mistakes as Kerry: Get mad and flame away at Dean or whoever and make myself look like an assh*le.

If I had almost a billion dollars to play with. I might just do what Kerry is doing.

[salin]

117. ironically

your posts could be read the exact same way. :shrug:

[VermontDem2004]

104. rotflmao

Smart enough? Let's see, what is Bush's iq?

[oldcoot]

110. Dean's 1-Y deferment

Dean went in for his physical as required. The U.S. Army physician who examined him decided to give him the 1-Y deferment. To my knowledge, Dean did not bribe, beg, or use family connections to get this deferment. Unless the Republicans can find someone who is willing to claim that Dean did something illegal or immoral to get this deferment, they would be wise not to bring up this issue.

[VermontDem2004]

114. I get tired of that cheap critism

Unless someone can prove to me if he got the deferment illegally, I will call Dean a draftdodger, but if his post is to start a flame war about Dean, then why did he even bring that up?

[salin]

115. What is it

smear and post rovian attack days?

we have laRoucheans running around proclaiming his legitimacy and denying his well documented racism/homophobia/antisemitism and all around looniness.

we have paranoid claims of Kerry as supreme plant by the skullbones and power elite.

we have Dean as a wall street wheeler dealer who left wall street for public life (lol! guess that doctor stuff was all faked on the resume).

Now included in this post is rovian slants.

All we need is a rehash of the Clark as war criminal from the farrightwing sight... and a few distortions of Kucinich... then we will be complete.

[VermontDem2004]

116. Your credibility has diminished

On your second link from the top, the column is written by CK Rairden, lets look at the titles and breif quotes from his other columns.

Hillary makes wild claims about blackout

Holden thankful his state doesn't have recall
(a quote from that article)
All of this has Democrats very angry. They are upset that they have yet to gain any significant footing in attempting to derail President George W. Bush. They are upset with their lousy nine candidates for the 2004 presidency.

Columnist's words make lawsuit by Fox
The latest liberal book to hit number one on the Amazon.Com bestseller list isn’t Hillary Clinton’s “Living Revisionist History.” Nor is it, “How to Remove DNA From a Blue Dress” by Bill Clinton.

The columnist continued…“Franken is a “C” level political commentator and usually unfunny as a comedian but has learned one thing—for anyone to notice him he needs to attack conservatives by name and then call them names to get attention.”

Truer words were never written. I should know—I’m the one who wrote them.



http://www.plattecountylandmark.com/ckrairden.htm

Octafish, your credibility has diminished because you posted a column about Howard Dean from a right wing republican. Of course he has negative things to say about him, look at some of the quotes I provided and the titles of columns written by him.

[chadm]

120. "credibility" has no place in a discussion forum

Here ideas are more important than credibility and its okay to be wrong once in a while as long as you learn something.

[VermontDem2004]

121. But if someone cites

an ignorant right wing columnist has proof, credibility has been disminished. I am all for ideas, and I agree with everything you said. But if you are trying to make a point, why are you going to cite a right wing columnist to help make your point? As you know, this is Democratic Underground. If you want to post right wing columns go to Free Republic.

[chadm]

118. No

That's why, as a Progressive, I wouldn't vote for him. The ingorant get trampled as President and power wins.

[West Coast Democrat]

122. I Just Learned Today that Dean is a Scorpio

just like Hillary. That's a good sign.

[VermontDem2004]

123. Yeap it is

:toast:

[West Coast Democrat]

124. Are you a Scorpio?

I am.

[VermontDem2004]

125. A sagitarius

is that good?

[West Coast Democrat]

126. John Kerry is a Sagitarius

I think.

[VermontDem2004]

128. December 11, 1943

is his birthday. Gephardt and Graham are also scorpios I believe. Clark is 12/23/44

[West Coast Democrat]

129. This Astrology Thing Should Be Explored Further

So many Scorpios running, and Scorpio is the sign of "Rebirth"

[DemBones DemBones]

138. Yes, astrology is a great way to choose a candidate. . .

(sarcasm off)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

127. Howard Dean's bday is Nov. 17

2 days before my daughter's birthday. :)

[FubarFly]

130. Two days before my birthday.

:-)

[TheYellowDog]

139. I support Kerry, but,

this post is incredibly stupid and rude. Dean is a very smart man, you have to be EXTREMELY smart to become a doctor.

[newyawker99]

141. Per Admin's instructions I am reopening this thread.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.