"How true Christians should behave" (re: God hates queers)

[Bluebear]

Father David Epps is rector of Christ the King Charismatic Episcopal Church. Whereas I don't agree with his position of gay = sin, I wish more Christians would speak up as he does in this editorial in The Citizen ("Fayette County, Georgia's First & Only Daily Online Newspaper):

http://www.thecitizennews.com/main/archive-050204/col-01_behave.html

How true Christians should behave


By Father DAVID EPPS
Contributing Writer

On behalf of the people of Christ the King Church and many other Christians in the Fayette and Coweta County areas, I would like to apologize for the scorn, abuse, degradation, and just plain meanness heaped upon homosexuals by the tiny band of churchgoers who, from time to time, park themselves near the Newnan (Georgia) Wal-Mart and display placards and signs saying such things as, "All queers will go to hell," and "Fags will burn," or something close.

I'm not certain what these folks think they are accomplishing by employing such tactics. When I was a teenager and played in a rock 'n roll band and listened to The Rolling Stones, the Beatles, and all the groups that were popular then, I would not have been lured away from my records and radio by a bunch of people carrying signs in front of my house that read, "All rhythm guitarists will go to hell," or "Rock lovers will burn." I would have just avoided those people and kept on with my music. I might have assumed that all Christians were like them, which, of course, they are not.

The Bible teaches that all people are made in the image of God. That is what makes humankind distinctly different from all other created beings. Animals are not created in the image of God, neither are fish nor fowl. In fact, even angels do not have this distinction! Even the stain of original sin cannot erase this imprint from men and women, no matter how far they wander away from God. St. James refers to this image and says that, because of it, we should not even speak ill of one another. "With (the tongue) we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the image of God; this ought not to be so brothers" (James 3: 9-10).

Yet, here in front of the Wal-Mart, on an occasional basis, are people proudly wearing the label of "Christian" who are cursing other human beings. The Greek word for "curse" in James 3: 9 (kataraomai), means to "doom, to pray against, to wish evil against a person or thing." Perhaps that's not how the group in front of Wal-Mart intends it, but that's how it comes across.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

[ultraist]

1. That's helpful, you should some writings from LIBERAL Episcopalian Priests

Liberal Episcopalians offer something that it's even better than that, much better. I hope some fundies take heed but they pretty much hate Episcopalians as do Catholics. In fact, each demonination & sect pretty much hates all of the others.

The Christian infighting is what created so many different sects, each claiming their way was THE WAY.

But on second thought, if another church thinks one is acting superior to them, they may take heed to show them up.

[Bluebear]

2. Writing from "Fayette, Georgia" it sounds like a big step!

The loudest voices right now seem to come from the emboldened Dobsonite type of Christians. I'm glad to see someone speak up 'in print' about these hateful types of rallies!

[Betty]

3. Slightly more enlightened than the God hates fags crowd

but he lost me when he compared being gay to being an adulterer, slanderer, selfish, etc. etc. How being gay can be considered as morally deficient as those character defects is beyond me.

[Bluebear]

5. It's beyond me too

Of course, that is not my personal belief system. But at least he's calling them out on their behavior.

[NAO]

4. Let Let Him Who Is Without Sin Condemn the First Gay (John 8:3-11)

Let Let Him Who Is Without Sin Condemn the First Gay (John 8:3-11)

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Foreign Objects in the Eyes, or Jesus Teaches Us How (and to Whom) to Apply Biblical Laws (Matthew 7:1-3)

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

*****

It is extremely clear that Jesus was very opposed to the idea of condemning people, even when they were, in actual fact, in clear violation of the Law of Moses. (John 8:3-11)

His message was that we are to apply the Laws to ourselves, and let God take care of (what we perceive to be) other people's violations of The Law. (Matthew 7:1-3)

[Nothing Without Hope]

6. Here is a LTTE written by the mother of a gay son

The issue of how people act in such an "unchristian" way, calling down God's judgement as if they are the sole arbiters of it, is clearly seen in this wonderful letter. I've posted it once before on DU, but in case you didn't see it, here it is again. I'll post it in its entirety because I don't think there is a copyright issue and I believe the author would want as many people to see it as possible.

I apologize - I don't have the link, but the newspaper where the letter was printed and the date are given.
----------------------
Letter to the Editor
by Sharon Underwood, Sunday, April 30, 2000
from the Valley News (White River Junction, VT/Hanover, NH)

As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be.

Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people.

I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.

He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.

At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."

You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda "could tear down the principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart.

He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage.

You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving...to be better human beings than we are?"

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?

[MarianJack]

8. WOW! Powerful and Beautiful

A courageous letter to shine the light on those who hate!

[Nothing Without Hope]

12. Yes. Its powerful truth, love and anger hit hard right in the heart.

It cannot be ignored or explained away. There is no questioning of any aspect of it. It shows outrage, but it is not hateful or shrill. The love and humanity of this family shine through every line. It's my all-time favorite LTTE on any subject, and I'd like to see it continue to reach more and more people. I'm betting it's made a few stop and think.

[MarianJack]

7. As You, Bluebear,...

...I don't agree with the Gay=Sin part, but it is nice to see someone Christian speaking up for the Gay/Lesbian community.

I am repeating myself for the umpteenth time in saying this, but my wife and I are Devout Roman Catholics who are standing by and with the Gay/Lesbian community in the current flood of media enabled evangelical venom.

We do so because it is right to do so. Who taught us that loving Gays/Lesbians, not judging them and accepting them as people who are every bit as deserving of our love, support and respect as any of GOD's other children? Jesus, that's who!

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (people) to stand by and do nothing. I don't remember who said that, but my father taught me that saying when I was in my early teens when I wanted my parents' permission to start demonstrating FOR Civil Rights and AGAINST the Vietnam war.

Gays/Lesbians, We stand with you, and WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!

[ultraist]

10. Homosexuality is NOT a sin just because your Bible tells you so.

I am so fucking sick of these optional Bible quotes being used to spread hate and violence. Is that what Jesus would do? Spread hate and violence and condemn other humans? I THINK NOT.

I love that letter, btw, I've read it before. Those type of people that mother refers to are ignorant, barbaric, selfish abusers.

[MarianJack]

16. Uhh, ultraist,...

...if you actually read post #7, which is the post you're responding to, I did not once say that I considered homosexuality a sin and did not use the Bible to make that statement. I have never, not once, done so in nearly 1200 posts as a member of DU.

I have been VERY active in the DU forum in the past several days expressing my unconditional and TOTAL support for the Gay/Lesbian community, as well as a feeling that can only be described as fury at the fundies who are bashing them. I am going to war with Maine PBS for it's spinelessness over a cartoon bunny, for heaven's sake! In doing so, I am always identifying my wife and I as heterosexual Roman Catholics specifically to show that the religious right does NOT speak for all Christians.

I think that there are more effective strategies than yelling at supporters.

BTW, please note the sig line below.

[Occulus]

22. That's not what I took from the post

reread it; I think s/he was talking about the attitudes that are the object of the letter's ire, and it just didn't come across well in its wording.

[quinnox]

9. There was an editorial about how Jesus edited the commandments

I think it may have been in the Wall Street Journal. But evidently Jesus only quoted 6 commandments when he was asked about them, he deleted the ones concerning organized religion (by not mentioning them), and the establishment churches don't talk about this because it doesn't fit well with them.

[ultraist]

11. The organized churches are the ones who WROTE the Bible

People seem to have some delusionary idea that the Bible was written by the hand of "God." NOT SO. The entire reason it was written by organized church leaderswas to gain control over the masses. It was simply a form of government.

[Az]

14. Clarification

The organized church did not write the bible. They collected the texts they liked and cannonized them and then spent the next 2000 years editting them. But they did not write them.

[Az]

15. There are two sets of 10 commandments in the bible

So editting down to one set of 10 is always necissary.

[Az]

13. The problem is he still assumes people choose to be homosexual

Even with recent evidence showing it is likely genetic. I am sorry. Either you stop suggesting that homosexuality is wrong or you are still part of the problem. People are always going to focus on ostracising those the community distinguishes as out of place. Until we as a people can let go of this notion that homosexuality is unnatural there are going to be idiots assuming it is a license to hate.

Its a nice gesture. But he is still has a mighty big log in his eye.

[Bluebear]

17. And that's a huge problem.

But anything to tone down the rhetoric. I don't expect Georgia will recognize gay marriage anytime soon. It would be nice if they didn't concern themselves with Massachusetts or run gay visitors off the road when they visit down there. This kind of editorial may at least make people think twice about picketing their WalMart with inflammatory signs! :hi:

[Zenlitened]

18. I don't think he's standing up for gays and lesbians here, rather...

... he's trying to salvage the image of his church or his religion.

Sorry, but I agree with others here who note that he's still labeling gays and lesbians as morally deficient based on who they love. Wants to rescue people from "sin" and show them "a better way."

It's nonsense, phrased a bit more politely than the "god hates fags" contingent, but still nonsense.


(edited to correct spelling)

[progressoid]

20. Right - he puts a nice spin on it but he's

judgmental all the same.

Instead of fire and brimstone version of "YOU'RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL!!!", he gives a dulcet, "pardon me sinner, but, er, you're gonna burn in hell for that."

[Moderator]

19. Bluebear

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

[progressoid]

21. I think it is telling that gay-bashers would see Walmart as a

prime place to find an audience for their message.