What would you consider child abuse?

[latteromden]

This thread got me thinking: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3066898

All of a sudden, I'm not so sure what constitutes child abuse. Is it only abuse until a certain age? Only if it's physical? Or mental and emotional, too? I'd love to hear some discussion on this.

[gardenista]

1. Name calling, as described in the other thread

constitutes abuse in my opinion. But of course that is not actionable by CPS, at least I don't think so.

Certainly the smack in the face was physical abuse, and if it had been witnessed by a cop, my hope is that the guy would be in serious trouble.

[AuntiBush]

2. Raising a child to be exactly like

the Oaf-in-Office.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. What is child abuse?

Subjecting a child to being raised in a fundamentalist church. It constitutes both psychological and emotional abuse.

[Jamastiene]

4. Yes

In many cases, it does. Especially if they are sent to certain "Christian" schools with principals that spank the kid for going to a different bathroom when the regular bathrooms are closed because they are out of order. Happened to me as a kid. It was uncalled for and even my doctor had something to say about that.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. it is a mixed bag

I saw one poster listed spanking as abuse. I don't believe spanking ( a pop on the tush) is abuse. I don't think a child should ever be slapped across the face or spanked with an instrument (belt, etc), but a pop on the behind with a hand will grab their attention.

[theresistance]

9. Yes, but what is your definition

of a "pop"? How hard can it be? What if a strong man does it as compared to a weaker woman? It can be tricky when you start saying that some contact is okay.

[flaminbats]

6. putting children on Ritalin.."concentrate dammit!!

:spank: and shut you're f*cking smart ass mouth"

[msgadget]

7. A punch, definitely.

And, I think the demeanor of the child being chastised can be telling. If s/he goes quiet, shrinks away and looks terrified then I'll probably wonder about ongoing child abuse. If, instead, they dance away, still mouthing off or expressing anger, I wouldn't think of it so much as abuse as another round in a battle for control. I've seen extremely defiant children raising hell in stores while their parent(s) tried everything to bring them 'round with no success.

Depending on where they're from or how they were raised, some parents do (still) swat a behind now and then. And, there are some major league brats roaming around.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. quiet kids often go more quiet when chastised...

some kids just cannot take disapproval. Our little one is only two and had never been struck in her life (correction, her hand got popped once when she tried repeatedly to grab something hot off the stove) and just a firm 'no' can set her to crying...you don't even have to raise your voice...just say 'look at me' and then 'no' and off she goes. She is an extremely obedient child and has been a joy to raise (thus far...kinda worried about those teen years). She is cared for only by me and my wife (no day care or other relatives watching her during the day) so I know she isn't being hit elsewhere. Some kids are just sensitive...and not necessarily being abused when the shrink away...

theProdigal

[msgadget]

19. That's a very good point,

theProdigal. One of mine has always been extremely sensitive without ever having been abused. But, as a naturally obedient and pleasing child, she never prompted a scene anywhere, not even at home. Except for one tempting outlet, I rarely had to raise my voice and that's all it would've taken for the tears to roll.

So, unless a kid is punched or the corporal punishment goes beyond a swat on a the butt, we have no way to know what goes on at home. Even bruises aren't a good indicator on an active child.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. my wife has a picture of our little one where she looks like

Carrie...of Stephen King fame. You would think she was drenched in blood...but in reality she found my wife's lipstick and QUIETLY painted herself...it was beautiful... :-) If we had been seen in public god KNOWS what would have happend...

theProdigal

[msgadget]

23. ROFL!

Ya gotta watch the quiet ones! I used to call mine 'my little silent resister'. She wasn't openly defiant but she got into her fair share of quiet mischief.

[DoNotRefill]

8. I was an abused child, but still believe in spanking.

And when I say "spanking", I don't mean "beating".

When done appropriately, it can be a valuable parental tool. It can also easily cross the line.

My wife and I have worked out the following "spanking protocol" for our daughter:

1. Parent that thinks the child needs a spanking NEVER administers it.
2. Other parent (the one who administers the actual spanking) must agree that the transgression was dangerous enough to actually merit the spanking.
3. Either parent has absolute spanking veto, no questions asked. Both parents MUST agree to the spanking.
4. Parent that instigated spanking protocol cannot watch it administered.
5. Open, bare hand only.


We've never spanked her, and hopefully we never will have to. But just in case, it's a good option to have provided that it's appropriately restrained.

[theresistance]

10. See my post #9. What is "done appropriately"?

Very, very subjective. This definition will vary widely etc. Bottom line: (no pun intended): there are ways to discipline children that do not involve any contact (which really should be ruled out totally). Please keep this in mind!

[hfojvt]

12. Perhaps another bottom line

Most of us did not experience those ways when we were children, nor have we been taught them rigorously. Is it reasonable to demonise people for a single incident, or for an attitude? There are many people who have walked those fine lines between discipline and abuse without doing too badly.
Also, for whatever abusiveness demonstrated by my parents, they were not nearly as bad as my siblings and my other peers.

[DoNotRefill]

17. But....

if the child is behaving in a manner that literally threatens their life (I'm talking about conduct such as attempting to run into the street, or something along those lines) then a spanking may indeed be appropriate.

We're not considering such drastic action for minor misbehavior. It's something to be reserved ONLY if the level of transgression rises to beyond the outrageous to the point of being life-threatening if the conduct continues.

We're hoping that it never becomes necessary. My wife was spanked only once during the entire course of her childhood. But if it IS necessary, we want to reserve the option.

[hfojvt]

11. I might say, no blood, no foul

Truth to tell, I am scared to weigh in on this for fear of "poster abuse" but I probably will just be ignored, as usual. Does being ignored constitute abuse?
It seems to me that I grew up in a world where I was in almost constant danger from larger children and often from teachers. My PE teacher used to berate me quite a bit for absolutely no reason. Now I live in a world where kids and teens will boldly get right in my face because they know damned well that I am not allowed to knock them on their ass. It is not like I am looking for twelve year olds to fight, but when they are pestering me, what would be so wrong with a good swat? Will it teach them violence or will it teach them to never tease a weasel?
On my first day of seventh grade, I was walking to my classes, when a ninth grader hauls me off my feet and screams "salute" in my face. Now that I am the size of that ninth grader, I find many seventh graders who will give me the finger, physically or verbally, knowing they have the law to protect them. Is it me or my generation getting both short ends of the stick?

[cags]

21. Shouldn't you be proud that these kids feel like they can speak

there minds without being afraid.

You have to remember that every slap, smack is just another chip away at a childs self esteem.

Why do kids have to always be respectful and never question authority?

Adults don't act like that

I'm proud of the fact that my daughter feels like she can speak her mind without the fear of being hit. That she can question the things around her without fear of physical pain.

Respect is earned not a given. If your kids don't respect you theres probably a reason.

I would much rather my children are obedient because they respect me than because they fear me.

[laylah]

13. ANY action

mental, emotional, physical, sexual that causes pain, suffering or embarrassement. I, too, believe is swatting a butt; however, NEVER in anger and NEVER anywhere else. To slap a child, or an adult for that matter, in the face is beyond comprehension to me. The face is such a personal possession of an individual.

jenn

[no_hypocrisy]

14. Ignoring your kids, not listening to them, belittling their presence is

child abuse, albeit passive.

[LWolf]

16. Mental, emotional, and physical.

My mother suffered a childhood of emotional abuse. They never had to lay a finger on her; it affected her entire life. It took her more than 50 years to come to terms with it, and there are some aspects she still isn't able to cope with.

What do I consider abuse?

Name-calling, belittling, neglect, and "punishments" handed out in anger. While there has to be consequences for undesirable behaviors, the consequences have to be logical and occur without anger, and with love and respect for the child.

Verbal or physical bullying may stop a behavior in the short-term, but bullying begets bullying, and that's not what we should be modeling, imo.

[Cleita]

18. Abuse isn't just physical.

If a child feels unloved then he is being abused IMO. So you can punish a child to protect him if he has disobeyed you and put himself in danger. I don't consider that abuse. However, if you punish him because you are in a bad mood then that is abuse. Also, I am against physical punishment, or vocally deriding a child, calling him worthless, stupid, devil's child (my mother's favorite)and other phrases that ruin his self-esteem.

[amazona]

22. there's a difference between what I consider abuse...

...and what the law considers abuse.

Spanking and screaming at a child are legal. I might not like it. In fact I don't like it. I consider it abuse. But there is not a damn thing I can do about it since my personal opinions are not the boss of the world.

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