In light of mopaul's post -- Things that shouldn't need to be said.

[nickgutierrez]

Torture is bad.

Misleading a nation into war: also bad. In fact, I think it's fair to say that intentional misinformation of any kind is probably not a good thing.

Having a president that is dumber than I am: bad.

Having a president that is dumber than one of these:



Also bad.

Killing innocent people: bad.

When there is an election, and every legal vote in that election is not counted, that's a bad thing too.

Speaking of elections, if there is one, and nobody knows who they're voting for... is that good? Of course not.

Information: a good thing. Unless the freedom to it is being limited.

Civil liberties are not expendable. That goes for everybody's civil liberties.

A war criminal is not a moral man.

The people who vote for a war criminal are not voting for 'moral values', whether they think they are or not.

Let's put some of these together. If you misinform people in order to start a war, you kill innocent people. Misinformation, killing innocent people = bad.

Even further, now. If a president, elected and then re-elected on questionable grounds (http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=411&row=0">Did every vote count?), misinforms the people of a country in order to start a war, killing innocent people under the pretext of 'liberation', and then begins torturing their prisoners, followed by running an election where the people of the invaded nation vote not for a leader but for one of over 100 political parties, in many cases with no names attached, then that's not a good thing.

And I'm an extreme leftist for believing this?

This country. Has. Gone. NUTS.

[henrik larssonisking]

1. jeez i hate to say this, but without my glasses on

i thought you were insulting michael jackson, until i put my goggles back on. im getting to old.

[No Exit]

16. Are you saying Smirky the Chimp and Bubbles are one and the same??

OMIGOSH!! It all makes sense now!!!!

[Warpy]

2. Give no quarter.

Tell them what they are: UNCHRISTIAN. Be prepared to give examples, with appropriate verses from the NT, if possible.

Don't forget all those verses from Matthew and Mark that deal with the type of serial polygamy practiced by Gingrich and other right wing moralists.

Don't let them weasel out of it. NAIL THEM.

[Cleita]

3. You said it best. Something we all know, but you made

the points salient. Thanks.

[nickgutierrez]

4. The thing that gets me:

Apparently, these things confuse 51% of the voting populous.

Fear makes people do some really stupid things.

[Gloria]

5. Maybe we should make people fear Bush....then they may get

stupid/smart and swing our way....

[nickgutierrez]

10. When people see Bush...

I would imagine quite a few of them see the guy who almost literally stood on the rubble with the megaphone in 2001, not the guy who (somewhat) figuratively stood on the bodies a couple of years later.

The people who have this image will be very, very hard to make afraid of Bush. As counter-intuitive as this may seem, logic may actually be our best hope with dealing with these people. It may also be our only hope.

[Cleita]

11. I thought he was a jerk when he stood on the rubble, sort of

a day late if you know what I mean. Talk about missing in action that day and the day that followed. Yet, Guilliani was there, why not the cowering Shrub?

[Sir Craig]

6. Not to sound too much like a PETA ad...

...but I really wish people wouldn't refer to * as "dumber than one of these (chimpanzees)." Chimpanzees are remarkably intelligent and loving animals, and to use them as some kind of comparison for that dumbass occupying the White House is really degrading to such noble creatures.

I would instead propose saying that Shrub is dumber than one of these:



Unless someone out there feels that that would be unfair to anvils...

[Wickerman]

8. Ya know, I have some friends who do creative blacksmithing

and I'll be the obligatory take offense guy. :) :hi:

excellent point - it is a real put down on a fine specie of animal.

[Sir Craig]

12. How about this, then..?

With respect to your blacksmithing friend...

Bush* is dumber than:



Unless there are geologists who would take offense to that as well. :silly:

[Wickerman]

17. Well, I know some guys that are rocks, too

but, as rocks, they are also Republicans, so yeah, I think a box o' is just fine.

:thumbsup:

[nickgutierrez]

9. I see your point.

The chimp is an easy comparison to make, simply because of the physical resemblance. Any animal is more noble than *, so it would be hard to find one that actually makes an appropriate comparison. :)

[Don Claybrook]

20. I submit an appropriate comparison

The Three-Toed Sloth



"...spends most of its life in the middle layers and the tops of trees where it hangs upside down from branches or sits in the forks between tree limbs...Sloths are known to sleep or rest up to twenty hours a day"

[JanMichael]

7. Well, no really, WELL said.

Everything they've done, doing, and are planning to do, is corrupt and immoral regardless of one's belief or disbelif in deities.

[prairierose]

13. Very nice post...you put it...

succinctly and clearly, thanks

[nickgutierrez]

14. Thank you.

How this can be so obvious to me, and not to over 51 million people, I can't say for sure.

[prairierose]

19. Yes, I often that myself..OTOH

there is a very serious question in my mind that 51M actually did vote for *.

[nickgutierrez]

21. Granted,

I'm actually more concerned about the votes that we know disappeared (vote spoilage, as indicated in the article I linked to), because it's easier to prove. But yeah, what you refer to is the main reason for the "every vote should count" thing in the OP.

[prairierose]

22. yep n/t

[No Exit]

15. Good thoughts, great picture, and

Let's also remember:

Freedom, by its very nature, cannot be forced on a people. Ditto for democracy.

If the number of security personnel at one's inauguration equals or exceeds the number of cheering fans, that means one is not popular.

[nickgutierrez]

18. Well...

You assume he means "Freedom" and "Democracy" with their western political definitions. He doesn't.

"Freedom" is the freedom to agree, and "Democracy" is the ability to choose the people that have been chosen for them. This is the "Freedom" and "Democracy" that * has planned for Iraq.

I do agree about the security though -- the sheer number of gun-toting cops at the inauguration does seem to preclude any idea of a mandate, doesn't it?

[No Exit]

23. Yes, Junior's "freedom" is of a rather unusual kind...

somewhere on here there's a great cartoon of him as "Johnny Freedomseed". It shows him walking the globe, carrying a big sack, casting out "freedom" (in the form of missiles which explode on whatever spot he casts them on.)

Probably the best definition of the type of "freedom" we've brought the Iraqis is, "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose!"

As for Junior's "democracy", shouldn't we change that word to "democracide"?

[nickgutierrez]

24. Kick.

:kick: