General Education Discussion

[Mikimouse]

Forgive me for the title, this is my first ever attempt at posting a thread. From a previous thread in LBN, there was a discussion regarding the nature of social scientific and historical 'presentation' and the biasing of information (on both sides). I would be interested to hear from everyone about any experiences, as educators or students. I know what my experiences have been, and suspect that they are not unique. :hippie:

[alcuno]

1. Hi Mikimouse

I have no idea, but as an educator, I'll move this up.

[Mikimouse]

2. Thanks alcuno!

The thread on LBN was addressing the issue of lib and conservative slants in teaching social sciences and history. I too, am an educator, and have been roundly criticized for some of the material I present in classes. Not that it deters me in any way, because what I present is factual and documented, but the inflexibility of the system astounds me at times. I suspect that some of the acrimony about "liberal revisionist historians" comes from the debates over the de la Pena diaries and the Alamo. I could be mistaken; please correct if I am. I teach at a very conservative university in the south, and pull no punches in my lectures, an approach that I perceive to be effective in that it at least makes the students think (oh, horror of horrors!)

[alcuno]

9. Now I understand your post.

I teach high school mathematics in one of the most liberal districts in the country. Our teachers could teach just about anything and never hear a peep of complaint since dissent is not repressed, but encouraged.

[prolesunited]

3. To be honest

I never felt a bias one way or the other. Perhaps I lucked out, but I always had teachers who presented both sides and encouraged critical thinking.

I do remember a social studies teacher in high school, though, who was very liberal and clearly marched to the beat of his own drummer. It was a good thing because I grew up in an all-white, upper middle class community of Republicans. I had never before been encouraged to see alternate viewpoints. He didn't push, just merely indicated that they existed.

At the time, of course, I thought he was very weird. I think I would appreciate him much more now that I'm older and the need to conform no longer rules my life.

I hope you will share your experiences later in this thread. :hi:

[Mikimouse]

6. Gladly

First of all, I am one of those ^%$^%$%^#! liberal academics that Lynne Cheney probably has pasted on her dartboard. I am a sociologist, and the type of academic training I received instilled in me the idea that one cannot fully understand human behaviors without being able to argue both sides of the question. This is where I often run into criticism. Sometimes the attempt to train students to think critically is stifled by the "I don't believe it" crowd. While most of my students do honestly make an attempt to follow the various arguments, there are always some very vocal students who are "offended" at the notion of an opposing perspective. Some of them, over the years, have made openly inflammatory political statements in class (I try to maintain an open forum style of class), but I suspect that their statements are more than likely based on the perception of a threat to their belief system and not on any independent research on their parts (or from reading their assigned material. These students usually do not do well, and of course, it is generally attributed to the instructor, who "follows his own agenda". Don't misunderstand, I am very happy with the student evaluations I receive at the end of every semester, but the inability to get some of these folks to actually think, is amazing to me (and of course, frustrating)

[prolesunited]

13. What part of the country do teach in?

Do you find that your students have become more liberal or more conservative over the years?

And, yes, some people just simply refuse to think. I understand the neo-cons and RWers viewpoints. I simply chose to reject them.

Welcome to DU and I look forward to reading more of your posts. :hi:

[displacedtexan]

4. something to think about

for the most part, history is written by the 'winners.'
art becomes precious because wealthy patrons say it is.

so, we are taught about objectivity, but we rarely experience it.

check out 'teacher expectation v student achievement' for a real wake up call. it takes 4 weeks of intensive work for teachers (even liberals) to overcome their biases in the classroom.

welcome to DU!

[Mikimouse]

7. Hi dt, and thanks

I am only vaguely familiar with the 'expectation versus achievement' observations, and what you suggest is certainly germane. I think what I am trying to say, overall, is that it is absolutely essential for educators to present both sides of any question equally, without bias. Of course, I realize that we, as humans, are incapable of being completely objective (if only!), but it ofen seems that the mere presentation of ideas that conflict with popular opinion almost automatically leaves one open to detrimental labeling. It is true that history is written by the 'winners', no argument there, but I would consider it a disservice to the students to not present documented evidence that might challenge embedded 'beliefs'. As an example, I presented a paper a years ago at a professional conference. It addressed the issue of community college versus four year college educational 'productivity'. It was meant to be a polemic work targeting the notion that the new generation of students in higher education were lazy, unmotivated and stupid (as are their teachers, according to some). I argued that rather than simply examining the SAT scores and other state mandated standardized tests, we should be looking at the slow, but steady changes in the economic environment in which our students currently exist. One website (Grandfather's educational website) insists that we have experienced a 71% decrease in educational productivity since 1964. It is a fact that the strength of the dollar has declined by about 68% over that time span as well. I asked the question: How might the economic changes and social definitions of necessity influence student learning outcomes. My conclusion was that contemporary students are anything but lazy, unmotivated and stupid, but rather they may be stuck between a rock and a hard place in defining their priorities. Clearly, this type of argument does not sit well with the achievement ideology groups.

[TSElliott]

5. In college I took a 20th Century Western History Class

and it was the worst. I loved history till this point but the Professor was so blatantly anti-American, I mean this guy was against America getting involved in WWII and stated that Pearl Harbor was deserved for the embargoes that were put on Japan. All I remember was having to sit through lecture after lecture about the atrocities carried out by Americans in every war that they ever fought in. There was no discussion just lecture and if you interrupted him he would ramble on about him being the professor and we being the students. Of course the tests we took had nothing to do with the lectures so it was easy to ignore him but a serious waste of my college money and time.

[Mikimouse]

8. Sorry to hear about your experience

Unfortunately, there are numbers of these types of instructors everywhere, and it was just your bad luck to encounter one. Probably a new instructor (or a first semester grad. lecturer), judging from the overt "I am the instructor and you are the student" powerplay. We accomplish a great deal more in the classroom when we are receptive to student questions; college level instructors should be facilitating informed discussion rather than stifling them.

[toopers]

10. Not to change the subject

but since there has been a flip flop with some of our Senators on the subject of School vouchers, what is the opinion of the board regarding vouchers. Personally, I am for them, based on the district I live in, the money I pay to the district, and the results that I see.

[Yupster]

11. Similar TS Elliot

I went to a small private college as a history major. All six history professors were Marxists. At the beginning it was interesting to get a different view, but after a while it wasn't a different view. The only challenges to thinking was whether the Trotskyite professor was right, or was the screeching Maoist?

I guess my best suggestion would be to end peer hiring committees, because everyone would agree that it is best to get divergent views, but if there are five Marxists in a department, and they are interviewing for a new professor, the new professor will be a Marxist too. Now I would hope the group would recognize it needed to branch out and get more diverse, but I don't think that's realistic, especially with a group like Marxists who are so convinced that they have found the dialectic which will lead them to the correct threads of history.

Of course I came out of school a Marxist, but after working for a year, I recognized a good deal of it as nonsense.

[LWolf]

12. I don't have much to add

as an elementary school teacher, but I'll follow the thread with interest.

I honestly don't remember bias one way or the other when I was in school. That doesn't mean it wasn't there; I could have been accepting a slanted account as gospel. I know that I was always aware of more than one side to every story, but I don't remember how I came to that awareness. The 8 public or 2 private schools I attended, or my liberal mom, or?

In elementary school, our standards, frameworks, and textbooks tend to be very pc, and don't really delve into the pros and cons of any historical action.

I teach my kids to look for and examine different perspectives as a matter of course; within our literature, social studies/science, classroom and community. Just so that they'll know they exist.