It Is Time For Us Middle-Agers To Get Pissed About Social Security!!

[mermaid]

WE are the ones who will get fucked!!

The old folks will get theirs. The young 18-year olds just starting out will have PLENTY of time to make good money in such a plan.

WE, in the 30-45 age range...we aren't so fortunate! WE are the ones who will be fucked the hardest by this.

Consider that most of us have been paying into SS for 15-25 YEARS!!
Now, they want to start us out with a "private account" at ZERO?? The same level that 18-year olds, who haven't paid SHIT into the system start at??

FUCK THIS!!

The government wants to pull this shit, fine, then they can give me BACK...EVERY FUCKING RED PENNY I PUT INTO SOCIAL SECURITY - WITH INTEREST...and start my "private account" with that much money in it. If they don't, then I just got fucked.

They say an investment in the stock market doubles once every seven years. Fine.

I have been paying in for FIFTEEN YEARS now. That means my money should have doubled TWICE...or, in other terms, my original investment should have quadrupled.

I have paid roughly $25,000 into SS over the years. So, four times that is $100,000.

they want to do this, then they need to start MY account with $100,000 in it. anything less is criminal THEFT!!!

Fuck you, George W. Bush!!!

[opihimoimoi]

1. George George........Watchout for THAT TREE

Never trust a guy who cannot think on his own....

Poor Bush....large amounts of evidence shows him to have difficulty thinking on his own...this is why he is not let out to the real press for real press conferences... he simply cannot convince us he has more than a few neurons in his cerebial cavity.....he uses plain spoken language(6th grade talk)... we all saw him break the rulkes in the devates.... WTF was that but trying to use intimidation... thru his power... poor Kerry did not contest the breach of rules...neither did the moderator...

But to the fore.. Bush is a dufus and his puppet masters know it.

[brokensymmetry]

2. Thank you!

We need some rage.

We've had two stolen elections - one by the Supreme Court, and one by voting machines.

We're working on 1,500 dead soldiers and God alone knows how many Iraqis.

Georgie lied to the U.N., the Congress, and the American People about weapons of mass destruction. (Gee, would he lie about something else?)

And there was precious little rage.

Finally - finally! - maybe we can work up some anger and fight this misadministration.

[earth mom]

3. I'm as PISSED OFF as you are!

I'm 44 and my DH will be 47 in a couple of months. I've paid into SS for 18 years and DH has paid into it for almost 30 fricken years! I figure we're owed a couple hundred thousand plus between the two of us!!! I have no other retirement and DH will get another retirement through his work, but the kicker is that he has to work 12 more years to get it and since it's a government job, he could easily lose it the way * is cutting every f-ing thing! :mad:

[mermaid]

4. Then Join Me!!!

LET'S GET PISSED!!!

Let's not take this one "sitting down and shutting up!!"

[Katidid]

23. You are also forgetting that

women who have been housewives and mothers all of their lives AND who would rely on their husbands SS if the husband passes away are just as F***Ked, if the husband was born after 1950. Something else to think about.

[mermaid]

24. Good Point!!

Are YOU P.I.S.S.E.D. yet?

[earth mom]

41. Oh, that's in the back of my mind for sure. I have worked for myself in

the past, so I'm pretty sure I could scramble up a modest income if something happened to DH and be able to take care of my son who is disabled-that is, if the economy stays as it is right now. In addition, we have a house with some equity in it too, which I'm thankful for. However, with all the crap the * installation has pulled, I have the nagging feeling that a depression is right around the corner-if it's not already here-and all that DH and I have worked so hard for could be worth zilch in a nanosecond. Add to the mix that DH works for the post office which is no doubt on *s chopping block, and it's no wonder I'm ready to sell the house like yesterday and take the equity and get the hell out of dodge aka the U.S.!

[JCMach1]

5. No shite... we are so screwed!

Even it is a brilliant idea for the kiddies out there (and it isn't) we are screwed by this.

[mermaid]

6. A Proposed New DU Group!!

I have posted a proposal for a social Security Strategies Group in the Poverty and Economic Development Forum.

I need ten donor-starred people to endorse the idea, and agree to join the group if it is formed.

JOIN ME!!

It's time to get PISSED...NOW

Hey, maybe someone can come up with a name for our Group that uses the acronym P.I.S.S.E.D.??

I know the SS can be Social Security.

P.I. Social Security E.D.

Any name ideas, folks??

[magellan]

16. How about

Paid Into Social Security and Expect Dividends?

[mermaid]

18. FUCKING BEAUTIFUL!!!!

bing bing bing bing!!!

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

[Auntie Bush]

43. perfect!

Except people will think you are FOR privatization.

[Historic NY]

7. I'm pissed & now that I'm injuried I think I will take the SS disablility

I planned on retiring in March from my present civil service job after 30 yrs. Well I got hurt and will never return to work, they pretty much said my pension will be 3/4 of my salary now. I could apply for SS disability which would amount to 1800 a month...I've paid in over 65000 to SS and my employer the taxpayers added another 65000. I probably will be able to do sit down work but nothing as I presently do. I have not explored SS disability yet but will leave that up to the workmans compensation attorney I will hire.

Anyone think its wrong to take it....I had a job offer prior to retirement but I think thats gone done the drain with my injury.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. Why would it be wrong for you to take

Social Security Disability Insurance benefits if you're disabled? Just talk with your lawyer and figure out the best economic deal for you. Workers Comp probably pays more plus you've got a civil service pension coming so I don't know what your best deal is. But you're entitled to the pension, you're entitled to Workers Comp and you're entitled to SSDI -- you just can't get them all at once!

[me b zola]

8. So, you believe the young'uns will make $$$ on shrubs plan?

Read it again, the little of it they have released. The only ones who will make $$$ on this scheme will be Wall Street.

As a middle-aged grandmother, I'm angry on behalf of the American public at this (yet another) fraud being perpetrated upon us all.

[mermaid]

12. No, I Don't Believe It But THEY DO...

and so THEY won't get pissed with us!!

They will get pissed AT us, because they think we will take away their "get-rich-quick" They will thank us for it after we have gone to our graves, but they will fight us in the here and now. It is up to us middle-agers to get pissed, and pave the way for those that follow...for TRUE Social Security Reform that is equitable and fair to all...and maintains the system's solvency for the generations that follow us.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Any young person who thinks they'll make money w/ Bush is crazy!!! nt

[me b zola]

52. We need to make sure that younger voters hear the truth

This is such a scam, so thinly veiled. We need to make sure the facts get out there.

[Dr.Phool]

9. You keep that thought, and stay PISSED

Bush keeps saying anyone over 55 will not lose any benefits.

TRANSLATION: Everyone under 55 will get fucked!

Remember, that in 1983 SS taxes were increased to keep SS solvent. Now they say they can't afford it. The only people who paid that increase were people makining under $80,000 per year in 2004 dollars. It was well below that before. What was this, a joke? A con job? They just increased taxes on the lower and middle classes for the hell of it?

Fight this to the death! A defeat on this will make "W" a lame duck real quick.

[DemBones DemBones]

31. Anyone over 55 who thinks s/he is safe is crazy!!! nt

[mermaid]

46. Very Good!

Now, are you P.I.S.S.E.D. yet?

[Rosco T.]

10. Time for a lawsuit forcing the return of our contributions.....

... breach of contract anyone?

[mermaid]

17. Good Possible Idea!!

It's an idea worth tossing about...but remember the Federal Government can only be sued if they give you permission to sue them!!

[Yupster]

21. There is no contract

Congress can change the rules anytime it feels like it and it has felt like it about once every generation.

You can't have a contract where one side can change the terms without the consent of the other side.

Or maybe congress interprets it that since theyy're elected, the people have in effect given them consent to do anything they want.

Either way, congress changes the rules to social securrity whenever they feel like it. The precedent is long established.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Shhh...You'll Wake The Sheeple

This regime, as always, plays to the selfish nature of myopic white males...24-49...who never really fought in a war, but love watching them...loves driving gas guzzlers, use a ton of services but hates paying his share of taxes...moralizes quickly about others but don't you dare peak into his private life.

They've got these sheeple...and there were enough to make a difference last November, deep into the kool aid on this. These people think they're paying too much into SSI...despite, just through inflation, the amount they actually contribute will be far less than the amount the next generation pays in, thus there SHOULD always be a large resevior of funds to keep the system going. The only reason it's running into funding troubles is this regime keeps running up defecits and borrowing from that "lock box" or suprlus. It's like your company raiding your pension fund...and it's been rampant the last 4 years.

As one who heeded advice in the 80s that SSI wouldn't be around when I reached retirement age, I designed a forced savings plan at the time (yes, I know very hard today), but putting something away felt good and over time it does add up. But that was intended as 1/3 of a retirement...the first third being a company pension and the other third from SSI.

The ultimate rich man's game is to be able to opt out of all government services altogether and be able to invest their wealth in the markets...with government induced programs and deductions that will reduce their income taxes to nothing...shifting the major load of the taxes on the "riff-raff" who use them. The GOOP has crafted the message to the sheeple that makes them believe in something that will destroy them. Just like lemmings.

[mermaid]

14. Kharma, Please Join My Proposed Group!!!

You have excellent contributions to make to the discussion Forums. I see this in your writing!!

I have another thread, proposing a new DU Group. It is in the Poverty and Economic Development Forum. I need ten donor-starred respondents expressing interest in participating in such a discussion Forum, and I can propose it to Administration at that time!

Please, we need you! I sense you have a lot to contribute!

[KharmaTrain]

19. Thank You...I'm Sure There's More Who'd Help

Please send me a link, I'd be interested in seeing a thread on the topic.

I'm more the media type than the ecomics one...and wish there was a more organized forum in that area, but if I can contribute, it'd be my pleasure.

Cheers.

Hopefully others will see this post and join in as well.

[proud patriot]

13. LTTE's and "HANDS OFF SOCIAL SECURITY"

written all over my car windows in White Window Chalk
also putting that on the front of my car Tomorrow .

We must all get very pissed and encourage other people
to get pissed and show it .

[mermaid]

15. Here's A Link To The Above-Mentioned Thread

Please join me!!
We NEED to get PISSED!!

NOW!!

Before it is too late!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=230&topic_id=221&mesg_id=221

[Yupster]

20. Not to get technical during your rant, but

the money doubling every seven years at 10 % interest assumes you put the whole $ 25 k in at the beginning.

Even assuming the 10 % rate of return was correct, only the first month's payment would have doubled twice. The money you put in seven years ago would have doubled once, and the payment you made three days ago wouldn't have gotten any interest at all.

Using the theory that half the money has been in half the time, then your 25 k should be worth 50 k today, not 100 k.

I get this question a lot. A person will put 100 per month in an account. The account made 12 % interest or 1 % per month. So why didn't I make $ 120 is the question? I answer with two questions.

1. So you wanted each of your dollars to make 10 % interest correct?

(Correct)

2. Even the $ 100 you put in three days ago?

(Oh, I see what you mean)

[mermaid]

26. Allright....Point taken

but DAMNED if my account should start at the same ZERO that 18-year olds who haven't put SHIT into the system start at!!

[American Tragedy]

22. Well, this youngster isn't going to play along with their charade

I already have a Roth-IRA, so it's pretty redundant.

Assuming that these 'private accounts' are indeed optional, I'm not gonna fucking do it!

[mermaid]

25. Well, we can use YOUR Voice, Too! Join Us!!

In fact, we can use your voice ESPECIALLY...because you are a young'un...and can talk to other young'un's, and let them know they are getting a shit sandwich!

Are you P.I.S.S.E.D.?

[Bridget Burke]

27. But--benefits for all under 55 will be cut to pay for the private accounts

Whether or not they participate. And the private accounts don't do anything to prevent future problems with SS. No, it's not a crisis, but some adjustments might be needed.

I'm just over 55. But I don't trust them on my account, either.

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. Yes! I am P.I.S.S.E.D.!

I went over and added my .02 to your posting. I hope it will be helpful, since .02 won't even pay the tax on a good-sized package of "Kibbles 'n' Bits" (which I figure will be at least half my future diet, if Little Boots has anything to do with it).

I like the idea of suing to get back at least a portion of our "contributions". I'd join that class action in a nanosecond, just to embarrass the hell out of them. :evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

29. just said it to husband last nite. not the over 55, not the youth

it is me and him, who have been putting in for three decades that are going to get screwed

[DemBones DemBones]

33. We will ALL get screwed by this Bush** plan! Everyone must get

PISSED and let Congress know about it. Callers on C-SPAN yesterday were almost 100% against this.

GET THE WORD OUT!!!

I'll sign on as a star for your PISSED group, mermaid.

[mermaid]

47. Please DO Sign Up Then!!

I don't see you over there yet.

The link is in Response Number 15 on this thread.

[notadmblnd]

34. I've been celebate for almost 2 years

not by choice, my husband passed away. But if I'm going to get fucked, I'D AT LEAST LIKE TO FEEL IT!. I've paid into the system for 28 years, I'm 46. The people who have bought into bushes plan better pull their heads out of his ass and educate themselves before it's too late.

[mermaid]

48. Oh, You WILL Feel It, Have No Fear....

If BushCo gets it's way, trust me, you WILL feel it...and you ain't gonna like it!!

Are you P.I.S.S.E.D. yet?

Go to Response Number 15 in this thread, and follow the link to sign up!

[tabasco]

35. I am extremely pissed !

Like I said in another thread, I will be even more enraged if the Deomocrats don't fight this to the DEATH !

[Stinky The Clown]

36. I had to laugh out loud at your post

Of COURSE you should be pissed! Feckless Ubersimian Chimpus Khan, Head of All He Sees (FUCK Head) has no FUCKING clue what to do about you. And doesn't care. All the "promises" about not changing benefits for "those in the system now" is aimed at those of us over 55. I'm 57. My wife is 47. I'm fucking PISSED!

And, when FUCK Head says there will be "no change in benefits" for those over 55, I stay pissed. I HAVE seen a change in benefits over the years. That letter that comes every few years from Social Security, telling me how much I would get were I to retire today? Each successive letter shows me getting a few bucks more. Will those increases stop for retirees, FUCK Head? Are COLA increases a distant memory, FUCK Head?

Fuck You George Bush, you heartless bastard.

[Lorien]

37. 30 is middle aged???

since when did life expectancy get lowered to 60?

[mermaid]

49. 30 Is Where I Consider "Middle-Age" To Begin

I think of Middle-Age as 30-50.

WE are the ones who will get the most fucked over by the proposed privatization plan.

Those who have been paying in to the system for the last 15 to 30 years!

[JHB]

38. One MORE thing to be Pissed off for:

Another thing to remember when you've got your steam up is that back in the 80's, Social Security payroll taxes were RAISED, to generate an excess so the system would be remain solvent once the Boomers retired, precisely the same thing which is allegedly "dooming" the current system now.

That extra money, which I have been paying my entire working life, was meant to keep the system sound by spreading the "weight" of the load the boomers will put on the system. If anyone who tries to claim it's "just some IOUs" or "just treated as general revenue", it's a load of horseshit, they're just trying to steal the money that's been put away. DO NOT let them get away with it.

[davekriss]

39. Benefit reductions are graduated

I wish I could find the table, but so far no go. Someone posted it here a week or two ago. Someone 45 today would receive an 18% benefit cut, but someone 25 would receive a 40% cut. I hope that is true, as it makes it a little more palatable, but I am unsure. In any case, I don't support the Bush Plan one bit!

Basically Bush proposes to borrow $4 trillion over the next 20 years to fund the transition when social security is still building a surplus through 2018 (projected), at which point it begins redeeming those special treasury bonds until exhausted (2042 says the SSA using a conservative GDP growth rate of 1.8%, 2052 says the CBO using 2.5%). If 100% benefits are still to be paid through 2075 (the end of the modelled years), the U.S. would have to borrow $3.7 trillion to do it. So pause here and look: Borrow $4 trillion over 20 years now to Enronize social security; or borrow $3.7 trillion over 24 to 34 years starting no earlier than 2042. Further, the $3.7 trillion can be met if the FICA Tax Cap was raised from $90,000 this year to $140,000 -- if just that tweak were done then, even with the conservative assumptions of the SSA and CBO, everthing would be fine and full benefits will be paid. So why is Bush monkeying with our social security?

Think of those new huge flow of funds into stocks and bonds. What happens when greatly increased demand begins chasing a relatively fixed inventory of stock? Well the price rises, silly! And won't you come out pretty if you already own a few million of more today. Will the value of your stocks quadruple over those 20 years? Will all that borrowed money be funnelled to you in the form of lightly taxed capital gains (and you then use your gains to buy the new issue bonds)? Easy money if you can get it.

Meanwhile, our youth build up meager holdings in personal SS accounts. What happens when they, as a group, need to sell to gain rent money? What happens when demand collapses? Prices drop precipitously. Meanwhile the owning class already made out like bandits during the run up when we borrowed $4 trillion and they get to sit back and collect interest on the bonds they bought after selling us our stock. Quite an Enronized twist of an otherwise blatant theft, if you ask me. The already advantaged win again. We lose.

Meanwhile Bush has cut taxes twice that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthiest amongst us. In the amount of $2 trillion from 2001-2002 to 2010, just 9 years, tops. That's $2 trillion less than we would have collected had Bush not spouted the tax equivalents of Niger Yellow Cake, anthrax spraying low-tech balsa wood model airplanes, rising mushroom clouds, and WMD -- notably, all untrue. Extrapolating the tax giveaways over 27 years so as to compare against the social security shortfall, and the Bush tax giveaways amount to $6 trillion. If Bush left taxes untouched, then not only is the predicted shortfall paid, but enough would be left over to fund public works projects, education programs, move to universal healthcare, and increase social security benefits! -- all things most of us really want. Instead we get Bushed!!

The Bush path is greed and lunancy. First his "base" gets the huge tax cuts -- could they be busy buying up stocks and bonds with this manna fallen from Bush's empty head? Then they get a capital gain on their stocks after the inflow of social security funds bid up the value of their holdings (we will see p/e's of 40, 50, or even more). The further good news for the few 1,000 families that benefit by far the most is that soon Bush will end taxes on dividends, interest, and capital gains -- and just tax the lowly salary-man.

His mission, the pRetZel pResident, is to fortify the financial fortresses of his "base" ahead of the coming collapse of the Oil Interval. Why else were we in Afghanistan and Iraq? Will we soon be in Iran and Saudi Arabia? Why build dozens of impregnable military garrisons in the region (Iraq, Qatar, and throughout the Caspian Basin area) if we did not plan to control for a long time what we now bomb and maim?

We will soon see a two tiered society. The owning class, serviced by a thin sliver of managers and magistrates, protected by militarized police and ensconced in safe bubble communities (where no doubt only Christian Fundies are welcome). They will live life in comfort and grace while the rest of us are left to peruse the garbage heaps outside their cities for scraps of food and shreds of clothing. Bush, like his father, is ushering in this "new world order", and very effectively!

Is that the sound of jack-boots I hear marching in lockstep? Or just the sound of the Anti-Christ rapping his knuckles on his empty head?

[adigal]

40. I'm 43

and have been paying into this system since I was 14. I will lose benefits. I don't have time to start all over. I am so angry at this, and I am telling every friend my age to write to their congressmen and senators about it, even the repubs.

[Greylyn58]

42. Thank You for saying what I've been thinking

Not once has the shrub mentioned what would happen to those of us in the middle range. I'm 46 year old and lost my job in Oct '03 and has since used up what savings I had. Now this numnuts squatting in OUR White House wants to take away all the money I have put into the SS system since I was 16 years old.

As if I didn't have enough things to worry about.

I can't even stand to look at this pitiful excuse for a human being anymore, not pictures, not tv...nothing and the same goes for every one of his minions. The shrub is pure evil. I've never felt such rage toward one person.



:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[spanone]

44. According to Bushco everyone under 55 gets screwed.

[Greylyn58]

45. I'm Kicking this back to the front page

so more will see this.

We need to stay pissed about this.

:grr:

[Buns_of_Fire]

50. Kicking it again

:kick: Got P.I.S.S.E.D. and STAYING P.I.S.S.E.D.!!!

[bluedog]

51. Im with you guys

got your backs here..have grown kids that this effects and grand children who will inherit this forsaken shitty mess.............lets go for it!!!!!!!

[Yupster]

53. You're a little late

You should have gotten pissed 20 years ago when they started overcharging you to save for your retirement and then instead spent the extra money as soon as it came in.

Now with hundreds of billions disappeared it's a little late to get mad.

[mermaid]

54. Better Late Than Never

20 years ago, I was but 13 years old, and hadn't yet paid a dime into the system.
20 years ago, I was not politically active.

I have been politically active for the past eight years, and Social Security is an issue I have been harping on for YEARS...but it took this crisis to get others interested enough to listen to me.

Hopefully, now, we can get this group together...we will ALL listen to each other...and we will, TOGETHER discuss ways to defeat the current proposal....while discussing strategies for fair and equitable Social Security reform that WORKS, and makes Social Security solvent for the many generations who will follow us.

This is not just about us, folks, this is about our children and our grand-children. Not that I have, or ever will have, any of those, being as I happen to not be able to have children. nonetheless, I have a niece and a nephew, and I am concerned for them, too.

Not to mention...my mom. She's 58 1/2. I do NOT believe Bush's assertions that no one over 55 has a thing to worry about...there will be no changes.

No changes?? That also could mean no more COLA's for my mom! another elder gentleman pointed this out, and I am afraid I must concur, he made an excellent point!