Choice is our winning issue

[mdmc]

Safe, rare, legal...

:kick:

If abortion threads bother you, ignore them.

Safe , rare, legal.

Anything less is uncivilized.

[DebJ]

1. actually after knocking on doors in Central Pa for more than 6 mos

choice is the issue that made about one in five dems I talked to vote Bush here. I don't like it, but that is how they feel.

[mdmc]

2. No , its not...

I don't want to confront you, but there was something else going on...
I can't believe that any Democrat would say that they voted for Bush over Kerry based on abortion. Only pro lifers would ever EVEN mention abortion to an activist.

By the way, I work in a conservative county. I know how to speak to pro lifers (I am one myself, except I think that privacy protects a womens right to reproductive choice). If you are really interested in working at "framing the debate" so that the Dems can reclaim the high ground, lets talk.

[DebJ]

18. well, here in York County, that is exactly what Democrats said to

me, repeatedly. Prayer in schools and abortion. I talked with one woman in great length, wanting to hear what she had to say. I tried to point out that legal abortions do not force abortion on anyone, but an illegal and immoral war has forced death and devastation on many. It was no go.

During the last month of the Kerry campaign, I asked others in a group how to approach this issue. They said, Don't. You can't win with the pro=lifers. I think their point was not to waste what little time was left. However, with another woman whose door I knocked on who brought this up, I said I am against abortions myself, but we need to support those children who are born through the programs of the Democratic party, the Republicans are destroying life for those trying to live. I got her attention. She watched me with huge, emotional eyes as I walked through the rest of the development, knocking on doors.

[Crazy8s]

3. That Means

that four out of the five had no qualms with choice.

btw, I am also a Debby J--with a y instead of an ie:hi:

[mdmc]

5. why! hello?

safe
rare
l
e
g
a
l

:kick:

[Crazy8s]

24. Huh?

whatcha mean? If four out of five have no qualms, then they are pro-choice. that's a good thing. hello to you, too.

[DebJ]

19. Hi!! Well, I was a Debbie J, until I got married in June. Now I'm

Debbie W; just didn't want to change anything after so many posts!

[mdmc]

22. Congratulations!

:toast:

[Crazy8s]

23. Great

I've been married for 30 years--may you have the same experience!
I'll always be a Debby J--the J is my middle name!

[K-W]

6. There are alot of pro-choice republicans. Whats your point?

[dsc]

4. It isn't as long as 1 out of 3 pro choicers

vote for Bush, as happened this time.

[mdmc]

7. they voted for him for other reasons

not because he was anti choice. Agree?

[dsc]

8. Yes

but given that we lose voters from our pro life stance the fact we can't even get that high a percentage of pro choicers makes it somewhat doubtful it actually is a winning issue. We have no choice now, since we took the position but it is incumbent on pro choicers to get the message across to their people to vote for us.

[K-W]

12. No, dont blame the loss on the issues, it wasnt the issues.

We have the right issues, we just have a corrupt system.

When people agree with us on the issue but vote for someone else, it means the issue was right, and something was wrong in between the issue and the person.

My guess is THE MEDIA

[dsc]

13. The problem in a nut shell

is that while a majority of voters are pro choice, a majority of those who vote single issue on abortion are pro life. Until that problem is fixed, and maybe the end of Roe v Wade would do that, choice will be a losing issue for us.

[K-W]

17. Unless the number of single issue voters isnt a majority of the people.

And it isnt.

Pro-choice and pro-life are too very different positions, I wouldnt worry too much about seeing a grassroots religious pro-choice movement in the heartland. The problem isnt that pro-life has thier single issue voters. The problem is that alot of pro-choicers are for some reason or another not voting for democrats and that many of them are not voting at all.

The problem is also that we will NEVER have an honest national debate about abortion.

You need to take into account the information people are recieving. Everything on the left has been twisted and manipulated and prejudiced.

We cant judge our issues on the reaction when people arent being given honest information. Every indication is that choice is a winning issue, it doesnt preform as such because the right frames all the issues, controls the debate, has marginalied everything they dont agree with.

[dsc]

21. I am not sure how what you are saying is any different from what I said

We both seem to agree that currently far more people are voting single issue abortion on the pro life side than on the pro choice side. We both seem to agree that needs to be fixed for choice to be a winning issue for us.

[fujiyama]

15. I think you have a point

Choice, like gun control is one of those issues where one side is certainly more passionate than the other. Unfortunately I believe it's their side.

I know many will disagree with me, but the way I see it is that even though a majority of the public consider themself pro choice to some extent (most probably don't want abortion banned outright), the pro life side is more passionate about it. This past election proved how churches can mobilize voters. If someone doubts me, they should read an article about Carson's senate run in OK. He once stopped at a church and almost the entire time, abortion was one of the only issues mentioned. It's likelier that you'll find someone voting republican for that one reason ALONE, especially in the south compared to someone voting for a Democrat just on choice alone.

For gun control, you're more likely to find someone voting against gun control than for it, even though many will say they are in favor of some restrictions.

The key isn't changing our minds on this issue, but finding a different way to address it. It's absolutely necessary for Dems to start making it clear that any banning of abortion will not necessarily stop them from happening.

[DebJ]

20. not the ones I talked to : they had ONE issue

[K-W]

9. To me that means we didnt reach them, not that it isnt our issue.

Our problem in this election is that the republicans control the communication systems in our country and control what information much of this country recieves, so that 1 out of 3 pro-choicers didnt know that the right to choose is at stake along with not knowing they were voting for a criminal syndicate running a moron.

[Dark]

10. My take on abortion.

Making it illegal will simply drive it underground. It did it to alcohol, and to drugs.

If it's underground, then the fundies cannot find it.

You cannot stop what you cannot find.

[Warpy]

11. WRONG!!! Social issues without economic populism are losers.

The only thing that keeps people voting GOP is the promise of tax cuts. That those cuts are only bait and switch except for the super rich is slowly starting to dawn on people.

The Dems under the DLC have offered people exactly nothing but the business as usual that has been killing them. The assumption is that the US is a country of yuppies.

Well, that assumption is a foolish one. The Democrats are going to have to start addressing working class economic issues if they want to win anything.

Fighting reproductive slavery alone won't do it.

[mdmc]

14. true, but right now that is all we got

since we don't seem too keen on activism right now.

[fujiyama]

16. I agree that the DLC

has taken a foolish and disasterous path in catering so heavilly to corporations and losing touch with the working class.

But even if Dems were to back economic populism, it's extremely difficult to bring the focus back to economic issues, when the GOP, through the media and the churches are interested in talking about only two things - gay marriage and abortion.