8 Million+ Posts. What Has DU Accomplished?

[ulTRAX]

Having myself posted some 1500 posts here I have to wonder what I've accomplished? For that matter what has DU accomplished? Surely networking is a strength as is providing some original content. There's the Campaign Underground and Demopedia. The later I thought was a good idea until I found another such project started last spring at DailyKos. How many such projects do we need? I'd rather see one good effort then spreading the good ideas around in duplicative projects.

What are were doing to advance social justice or democratic reforms in the US? What has the endless rediscussion and reinventing the wheel in those 8.6 million posts gotten us? Sometimes I think we all become victims of, and limited by, our own web models.

We need to rethink what we're doing here and develop some concrete goals. It's a crime not to harness and and given direction to all the energy here.

[WLKjr]

1. DU has given me an education about politics

made me get involved, made me write a LTTE, and work for a local candidate for Ohio congress...... :shrug:

[trumad]

2. DU has made me an 800 pound political gorilla

in a sea of Morans.

[dhinojosa]

3. DU just made me 800 pounds

I don't know how I am going to get this weight off.

[WLKjr]

7. I like that, an "800 pound Gorilla"

:D

[murielm99]

4. DU has done the same for me.

It has helped me research issues. It has educated me, and made me a more effective activist.

I have found a community I love, and, I hope, a few friends.

[benburch]

5. If a sense of community isn't good enough...

then maybe you expect to much from a website?

[ulTRAX]

25. I expect a site to have the vision to harness the energy...

I expect a site to have the vision to harness the energy of the peoplr it attracts not not let most of it be wasted.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. DU has provided me with countless ideas for activism and is my

primary source for news. I would have been tempted to crawl in a hole after the election if it hadn't been for the inspiration I received here.

I agree that liberals are too dispersed and could benefit from the tactics conservatives have used so successfully over the last several decades. But I think DU functions as an excellent clearing house for gathering ideas and for recognizing that we aren't alone. Especially those of us who live in decidedly red areas.

[TyeDye75]

8. DU has shown me

that not all Americans are idiots....which is how it was beginning to look before I came here

[blm]

9. BushInc controls about 90% of the mainstream media. If it wasn't for all

of us here and in the blogosphere who helped get the word out wherever we could to counter their lies and spin during the primaries and the general election, he would have won decisively with about 60% of the vote and the perception of invincibility.

As it stands, he won by the slimmest margin for ANY president and a record number of votes AGAINST a sitting president.

[theorist]

And here I thought I was being a good citizen

by involving myself in political discourse with other citizens. I think that's an accomplishment. Other than that, letter writing campaigns, thwarting the RW net-bullies, and exposing a few freeper media scams are all worthwhile.

I also see DU as a thriving progressive e-community full of a wide range of people. The mere fact that major news outlets have covered DU is proof positive that we are doing "something". We have to be realistic, though. Aren't you more proud of your 1500+ posts than all the hours of television you've watched in your life? I know I am.

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. Oh and I think I'd change your question...

It's not "8 Million + Posts. What has DU Accomplished?"

It's "8 Million + Posts. What have you accomplished because of DU?"

[ulTRAX]

20. nice try

But the topic of this thread isn't me.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I realize that.

But that's how I feel. If I were asking a question about 8+ Million posts at DU, that's how I'd ask it. No offense intended, just a thought that passed through my mind.

ETA: By the way, what do you mean by "nice try." What exactly was I supposed to be trying to do? You lost me there. Please notice I did answer your question sincerely above.

[ulTRAX]

26. I only meant

Often some are less intent on discussing the topic and more on diverting it. My apologies for assuming the latter.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. Thank you, I appreciate that.

I in no way meant to divert the topic. I should have edited my original post rather than add on as a separate response.

[Eloriel]

23. You misunderstood his point

He wasn't talking about YOU personally (IOW,LOL, you're the only one who remotely made this about you). He was using "you" in the plural and generic sense, simply reframing the question.

[Pacifist Patriot]

30. *sigh* Yes, I know and I answered his question fully and sincerely...

above. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3075102&mesg_id=3075172&page=

My apologies for posting this twist on the question that poopped into my head. Everyone may feel free to ignore this random thought completely.

[5thGenDemocrat]

70. Holy shit

I just realized one out of every 1200 posts here is mine. Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous.
What have I learned from DU? I don't know -- I was an old-line Lyndon Johnson Democratic liberal when I got here and I still are one. And, further, it's now just 129 days, 11 hours and 17 minutes to FUNDAY and you're all still invited. So there's that.
John
But enough about me. Back to the navel gazing.

[ulTRAX]

32. what have I accomplished because of DU?

Not to be flippant, but I can't think of anything. I have my own ideas on what a site can accomplish and how to develop strategies to make the US a more democratic nation. It's from that perspective that I see how much energy is being wasted here spinning our wheels.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. I suppose because I've personally witnessed activism generated

by folks on this site I can't agree with you that DU is simply a matter of spinning our wheels. I cannot consider any opportunity for people to share ideas as wasted energy. I'm not exactly sure what you are expecting from an internet site, but as a means of disseminating information and ideas I think it's pretty damned good. here is only so much that can be done at a keyboard, eventually it is up to us as individuals to back away from the computer and act on what we have learned here.

[ulTRAX]

48. I never suggested that all the effort is wasted

Only too much energy is wasted for the gains made. As for spinning our wheels I mean the endless rediscussion of the same topics over and over again. Given the current forum structure even discussion isn't efficient because the GD forums are overused pulling discussions from the topical forums in which a thread belongs.

[TNOE]

99. I don't have time to read through all these posts

so maybe this has been stated in a different way - but you SORELY underestimated the power of the Internet and DU in particular. When I joined DU it only had 12,000 members - now it has become a force to be reakoned with - with candidates, senators, congresspeople from both sides of the isle no doubt logging on and reading - not to mention the MSM. Not only does it allow them to see the tone of anger and frustration - but the wealth of information that regular citizens are capable of gleaning and the Internet is the only true source of real information these days.

The information gleaned on 9/11 alone is astounding. America would certainly be doomed without these websites - site like these give us a fighting chance. I personally feel that had there been an Internet in the 60's when Kennedy was killed - and all the sleuths took to their computer - they would have never gotten away with that big lie - which has changed the course of America, and MLK, etc. 9/11 is still trickling but hopefully soon there will be too much information to be avoided and this will not get swept under the preverbial rug for the next 30 years.

I stay addicted to DU, even when I quit posting for awhile, I always still check in and read. Change can come in leaps and bounds from the smallest of ripples - one small pebble thrown in the pond and the water flows out and is disturbed. You do yourself a disservice by not realizing and understanding the importance. The internet is so important in fact - they are trying desperately to find a way to shut it down.

I look for the Internet and sites like DU to change history - and hopefully that will happen.

[bliss_eternal]

11. What about the day the members of Congress stood up

and demanded a recount for Ohio? Would that have happened if not for some of the people on DU?

What about what happened w/Sinclair prior to the election?

What about the various petitions that are circulated here, signed by members and passed on to others, etc.?

I think I know what you mean--it would be great to see something bigger develop from here. But hasn't this site and the members on it created 'some' changes? Doesn't everything have to start small, somewhere and why not here?

Not trying to make light of your question or concern at all.
This is just what I've seen and how I feel about what does happen here....

[Eloriel]

28. The recounts themselves wouldn't have happened w/o DU

You can ferret out the story from some or all of these links:

Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org
National Ballot Integrity Project http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

NH recount by Nader.... Is meant to ABSOLVE Diebold!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25564

[ulTRAX]

53. that's all well and good

But there's more to democracy than recounts. 50% of the voting age population sits out elections... our federal system is anti-democratic.... and our two party system deprives citizens the right to vote their conscience and get representation.

Is DU doing anything about these BIG issues? Or is it implicitily supporting a Democratic Party that, itself, is hostile to true democratic reforms?

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. If my county is prevented from acquiring DRE voting machines...

the voters here will have DU to thank. Keep your fingers crossed!

[Spazito]

12. I see a lot being accomplished on DU!

It is an amazing place to become informed about so many things. It has become a focal point for debunking the lies spread by the right-wingers. It allows everyone to participate at the level they are comfortable, from simply reading all the way to organizing local and national protests, e-mail responses, etc.

It has evolved to offering a variety of forums for members to discuss all manner of things and learn from each other.

I only wish we had something comparable in Canada! I have learned SO much about the inner workings of US politics, the laws and feelings of many US citizens, and have been emboldened to, again, step into my own country's politics and 'rage against the machine'.

[intheflow]

13. Sinclair Broadcasting, John Conyers, and comfort to thousands

DU and other sites like it exerted tremendous pressure on Sinclair Broadcasting to greatly amend it's smear campaign against Kerry in October 2004, even unto causing its stock to plummet.

We and our ilk brought such pressure upon the Democratic party to investigate the vote in Ohio that it moved Conyers to investigative action (still on-going), and spurred other members of congress to grow backbones in opposing the electoral college, Condi Rice's nomination, and Alberto Gonzales' nomination.

Finally, thousands of us have learned that we are not alone in seeing the corruption and lies spewing forth from this adminstration, no matter how much our families, co-workers, and the media have tried to paint us all as far-left, extremist, conspiracy theory nutcases.

I love DU! :loveya:

[bigwillq]

14. I learned alot about politics and the political process from DU

It's a valuable resource to me. Plus, it's a helluva alot of fun!

[madrchsod]

15. hmmmm

i`ve meant some really nice people-in person
helped some people with their problems
they have helped me with mine
my daughter got an a on her political science paper
put alot of people`s feet to the fire
laughed at alot of crazy crap that goes on here
cried sometimes

we may not radically change the world but we may change enough of it to make a difference.

[ulTRAX]

52. what can DU accomplish if it thinks BIG?

Yes, there's networking and bonding here. But that doesn't mean those we shouldn't be thinking about what we could accomplish if the power of the membership was harnessed. We need to think BIG.

[whistle]

16. How about finding out that there are many people in America

...who see what is happening and are no longer willing to stand back and say nothing. That is the beginning of an awakening from a long sleep that too many Americans have into, some for generations! I can only speak for myself, but now I am beginning to question not only the opposition, but the party and its leaders that I have trusted most of my adult life to protect and take care of our rights and freedoms. Before I discovered DU just one year ago the situation appeared hopeless and gloomy. Now, add me to the ranks of the informed, the willing , the questioning. That may not seem like much, but it certainly means a lot to me.

[ulTRAX]

42. where't the emphasis on strategy?

whistle wrote: "That is the beginning of an awakening from a long sleep that too many Americans have into, some for generations! I can only speak for myself, but now I am beginning to question not only the opposition, but the party and its leaders that I have trusted most of my adult life to protect and take care of our rights and freedoms."

How is DU going to play a role in this transformation if it doesn't start to emphasize develpoing long term strategy as a goal as opposed to endless rediscussion?

[whistle]

75. A discussion forum can not accomplish strategy development...

...that's what leaders are for and organization and task groups and mobilization of the masses. An internet discussion forum is just a media outlet for communication. DU serves the function of clearing the communication pipes of chaff and interference from all of the other media that confuse and divert attention from what the truth is.

[ulTRAX]

98. Forums can be set up to discuss ANYTHING... including strategy

Your ideas are both limiting and anti-democratic.

Forums can be set up to discuss ANYTHING... including strategy. They can be set up to produce CONTENT. I proposed such an project here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460

I find it interesting that you'd place your faith in those leaders who have proven themselves ineffective and LOST GROUND to the Right and refuse to consider the possibility that better ideas and strategies can come from directing and harnessing grassroots energy.

Where you see a collection of individual posters posting randomly, I see a 70k member think tank.

[anarchy1999]

17. Over the course of the last few years, DU has kept me sane and

I beleive we've (my husband and I) forged many friendships across this nation and in other countries as well.

In addition, DU keeps us feeling informed, connected, active and able to believe we still have a voice in this government.

Thanks for your opinion, so what are your ideas for goals, direction for all our energy, etc? What part of DU is it you find to be a "crime" and just how would you like to see this community direct its energies??

You started it, I didn't.

[Thtwudbeme]

18. Personally....I got married

That's good enough for me

[paineinthearse]

24. A DU romance?

You met your partner here? Enquiring minds want to learn more.

[Thtwudbeme]

34. Yep

and he's cute; we've been married a year and a half.

[Hissyspit]

58. How did that happen?

I met my last girlfirend on a Napster board, but that was IM.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. i agree with your last line -- Unified, orchestrated goals.

[Imajika]

21. DU has accomplished a lot...

Lots of left of center people gather, become better informed, organize, bounce ideas and thoughts of each other, highlight news items that would otherwise have gotten little attention, etc, etc.

Take Howard Dean for example. It seems to me that without all the organization and support Dean received from DU and other left of center sites, that he would not have been able to go from near obscurity to being a serious contender for the Democratic presidential nomination and now about to become DNC chairperson. Much of the mainstream of the party wanted nothing to do with Dean. DU and other left leaning sites have had a massive impact on making sure the grassroots are heard.

If the other side did nothing, the effect of DU would be even more noticable. The problem is, the right is not static. They do the same thing, only now I believe we do it slightly better. The conservatives will continue to improve their online organization efforts, and we should continually strive to do the same.

Here is another example, one that I think by itself isn't terribly significant but still demonstrates the effect of online communities like DU. There was once a time not so long ago when the Republican positions dominated these unscientific online polls - their minions would always skew online or phone call in polls ridiculously to the right, but that is not true anymore. I think the left now does at least as good a job, if not better, at getting after these online polls, and that is in part because of sites like DU.

DU is very important. I would not underestimate the power of this community. I would bet that at some point we will discover that DU helped produce some major future leaders.

Imajika

[ulTRAX]

37. I never underestimated the importance of community

BTW I never underestimated the importance of community and networking.

Imajika wrote: "If the other side did nothing, the effect of DU would be even more noticeable. The problem is, the right is not static. They do the same thing, only now I believe we do it slightly better. The conservatives will continue to improve their online organization efforts, and we should continually strive to do the same."

You're correct the Right is not static. But the answer to counter the right is better organization... and I don't mean voter registration. There has to be more emphasis on the big picture: developing new ideas and finding more effective ways to counter the Right's message. This is where I'd like to see DU putting more energy. But that means more structure.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

85. What effect would it have....

If the "Right's message" was simply silenced?

[Bunny]

27. DU has given me the opportunity to get more educated

politically, identify my own beliefs in a more clear manner, and, of course, discuss abortion ad nauseum.

[Emboldened Chimp]

29. DU has given me the opportunity to piss in the wind without...

fear or remorse. Thanks DU!

[K-W]

33. This is a discussion board, chill out.

Expecting an internet forum to sprout wings and save the world is not going to get you anywhere. This forum does what all forums do, it allows us to discuss things.

[ulTRAX]

39. discussion boards are a dime a dozen

DU is too valuable a resource and has too big a following to be just be satisfied with being another discussion board. The problem is with discussion boards is they don't develop content. They endlessly reinvent the wheel. Demopedia was a way to get past that but it's just more me-tooism.

[K-W]

46. It sounds like your expectations are the problem here.

Democrats arent magical pixies. When we use a discussion board it works in basically the same way as when other human beings use a discussion board.

Most people are clever enough to realize that they can discuss things on the discussion board as well as doing other things in other places to more actively participate.

Im not sure why, instead, you chose to complain because the message board wasnt magically solving the worlds problems.

[ulTRAX]

54. why limit expections to fit a web model?

I see the deficiencies of DU because I'm looking at the big picture of where I'd like to see the US in 50 years. DU could be key in laying the foundation for a transformation of the US into a more democratic and socially just nation. That starts by a revisitation of basic principles and rebuilding a new progressive paradigm. I'd love to see DU at the heart of this process and have proposed it several times. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460

[MissWaverly]

38. what has DU done?

I agree that the recounts would not have happened w/o DU and the challenge to Ohio for the electoral vote, and I sent the data I had done for my posting here to one of my state action groups and they say that I could be called to testify on election fraud at my state capital. Plus in doing a review of my precincts results at the suggestion of another DU'er, I found that the vote count for my precinct was really low. It was supposedly only 944 votes and I sent an e-mail to the local election board to let them know that could not be right. I've talked to everyone on my street who voted and they say the place was jammed all day. I estimated that while I waited 2 hours to vote that there were at least 350-450 people there who voted at the same time as me. Everyone on my street says that I am to talk to elections officials and make them 'straighten things out' because the numbers could not possibly be right.

[HamdenRice]

40. Spot on ulTRAX -- maybe you should rephrase: what can we do?

You are absolutely correct in asking this question. DU reminds me so much of the joke/criticism that Mark Maron used to make on AAR Morning Sedition -- about people thinking that blogging and posting are the equivalent of political activism. They're not.

That said, DU has accomplished some things. The media has picked up on it. There is a lot of dismissive stuff in the MSM about DU, but a lot to suggest they are actually listening. I think that the alternative press and even MSM paid more attention to Ohio because of DU and other sites like it.

Second, it is important just for us to know we all exist and are very close to half the population.

But really the question is what's next. Maybe you phrasing the question put people off -- "what has DU accomplished." A more positive way of putting it is, what can we build on from here? Here is this huge base of committed people with a fantastic communications medium.

I think a start is beginning to meet locally in real time, face to face, in salons or local groups. From there, it's civic organizations or taking over precinct level politics.

The way to think of it is not what we haven't accomplished, but what we can accomplish, building on DU and other internet resources. Ultimately, I think we have to realize, information sharing isn't enough.

[ulTRAX]

44. point noted

I've a bad habit of writing provocative post titles.

[seabeyond]

41. kept me sane, that matters to my family anyway n/t

[distantearlywarning]

43. I personally get a ton of information from DU -

the kind that you don't hear on CNN anymore since they sold their immortal souls to the evil empire. I pass that information on to others of my acquaintance. I bet I am not the only DUer who does that.

So I guess you could say that DU is keeping my mind and the minds of several other citizens relatively free from the corrupting influence of mainstream media and the propaganda it disguises as truth.

I'd say that was pretty important.

[ulTRAX]

50. can DU acomplish more?

I think I addressed that in my first post. I consider that a function of the positive networking function DU plays. But I wasn't asking about how we enjoy or find refuge at DU.

My question is what have we accomplished on the MACRO scale... furthering progressive reforms or making the US a more democratic nation? Can restructuring DU accomplish more?

[CalebHayes]

45. Has anyone kept track of how much money we raised for Kerry?

When people would do the donation match and such.

[Octafish]

47. DU's kept hope alive.

Plus, DU's empowered good people with the Truth.

[moggie12]

49. I would like to see a more focused, coordinated use of the site

DU seems like it could be an incredibly effective organizing tool, in addition to being an information and support network.

The Left seems very disorganized compared to the Right. For example, that Dobson moron can get his followers to spit out 2000+ e-mails to the media at the drop off a hat. I don't think we have anything comparable. Boycotting Wal-Mart and "Not One Damn Dime Day" are/were very noble efforts but incredibly ineffective (the former targets a corporation whose sales account for 4 percent of the GNP and the latter tried to target the entire economy!!!).

What I'd like to see:

1) More emphasis on DU in regard to writing e-mails and letters to the media and politicians. I and many others have put up posts asking people to write in response to specific issues, normally providing the e-mail link. Usually 10-30 people reply and say they'll do it. It'd be great if more people would take the time to do these things. Targeted e-mail blasts, with hundreds of people writing, could have an effect.

2) Better organized, more narrowly-focused boycott efforts. I've been doing some research on boycotting Fox's advertisers, for example: I hope to post a "think piece" about it on DU in the next few weeks.

3) Coordinated, one-time support drives. For example, I posted something in GDP about supporting Howard Dean as he takes over as DNC Chair -- got back a lot of enthusiatic replies with many good ideas. I'll be reposting it, incorporating everybody's input, in the next day or two. It was posted in GDP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1567741

4) Network building: If people saw some activist-type effort they liked on DU, they could try to get more people involved, either at work or through e-mail lists of their friends. If everyone at DU got 3 or 4 more people to participate in a specific effort, the snowball effect would be significant.


The downside to all this, of course, is the time involved. I really see DU, however, as a fantastic resource: The real-time communication it provides makes it great platform for brainstorming, info sharing, planning, and feedback.

Well that's my two cents.......

[ulTRAX]

51. ideas I favor

I've posted a number of ideas here.

One was for DU to become an on-line think tank.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460

The other deal more with long term strategy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1316860

[moggie12]

59. Ah, you are looking for a very, thoughtful long-term process

Your two posts were downright brilliant.

I'm primarily interested in a "War Room" type of concept -- unfortunately, it's rather short-term and reactive in nature.

[lostnfound]

68. Good posts. I agree.

What do we do we make it happen?

I'm reading 'The Republican Noise Machine' and it drives home the fact that the RW has (because of massive funding) become incredibly organized and strategic in ways that the left isn't.

[peacetalksforall]

55. Education. News. Opinions. Insights. Stories. Questions.

Disection. Analysis. Theories. Fact checking. Light bulbs going off. Ideas. Wishes. It is endless.

When someone posts some news or rumor, the wealth of opinion and contribution through experience, knowledge, and intuition is amazing. I relish the contributions that come from lawyers, military, government employees, historians, everyday students and citizens - even when it is decades old experience - the history of SS, for example. Everyone seems to have a niche that they are knowledgeable about. I also relish the moments when wild or mild speculation is verified or dispelled by the same knowledge, experience, and intuition.

When a troll said the Wellstone aircraft came down because of ice on the wings...someone dug in and found out that there was winter weather, but no ice and no other pilots reported problems. Then someone else adds that the FBI was on the ground within 45 mintues. On and on.

[ulTRAX]

56. did it take 8 million posts for those benefits?

I think those benefits are pretty clear.... though the same could be accomplished with a newsfeed. Did it take 8 million posts to provide those benefits? How much energy is wasted because DU lacks more goals and structure?

I'm looking at the big picture... developing strategies to transform America. The benefits you mention seem more short term while Progressives are losing the strategic initiative.

[peacetalksforall]

60. Just a quickie reply this evening...

DU means scoping it all. It means picking up on what needs to be done today as to petitions, letters, building momentums. The short term activities are subject to personal time liabilities on a daily basis.

So you must be talking long term; more than just planning arrangements to join marches? And making sign and banners? Home meetings are already covered through MoveOn.

So what are the needs?

I could suggest organizing content of informational handouts - everyone dividing up to write and vet with specific targets -handouts that could accompany informal talks with co-workers and friends that they could read after the discussions or for street distribution. Dated material could be kept current. Distribution laws could be researched. Information about who at a city level should be approached for permission.

A handout for the friendly with a list of links and why a person should go there and with prioritization.

A Who's Who on the propaganda networks - list of foundations and forums and why they exist and why, if known, they are always on the propaganda networks and what the specific person does for the organization and who else they are affiliated with - stuff on DU to start with.

There is great history on DU - great reminders - a who's who of Iran-Contra shows that the players are all employed again in the White House or the think tank feeding machines.

A little treatise on the 'isms - why are people saying that this admin is a new fascist entity?

A list of famous quotes of warning and stand offs from people such as Eisenhower, Butler with accompanying context.

List of books with posters recommendations and priority suggestions.

All of this is already all over DU - it's just a think of organizing it.

Is this what you're talking about?

[ulTRAX]

69. yes I'm talking long term

Here's some ideas......... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1316860

Since I take that long term outlook I look at every resource available today to see if it contributes to the goal of a TRULY more democratic America.

Sadly DU doesn't. Implicitly it's locked into supporting our dysfunctional 2 party system in which the party on the "Left" actually opposes true democratic reforms.

Since "democracy" is the feel-good word of the Left wing of the Democratic Party... this discrepancy would not be noticed unless one revisits basic democratic values.

[murielm99]

66. DU does not speak with one voice.

We are not going to turn ourselves into some monolithic Democratic Party structure. We already have enough of those that are not working. It might be better to take what we learn here to those outside organizations.

I have seen already some organizing efforts here. I saw what IdaBriggs did with the recount. We have a media blaster. We have had people work on election fraud. We have people who brainstorm and answer some of the nasty right-wing e-mails that circulate. We have people who help others with LTTEs. We have raised money. And we have all sorts of people here who encourage others to get off their asses and work in their local communities and states.

I learn about events that are taking place by reading DU. So do many other people. We hear about things like the March for Women's Lives, Turn Your Back on Bush, etc. We learn about MeetUps, and other ways that we can help in real time. I know that I am not the only one who has learned about an action here, and later participated in it.

I don't think the scope of a message board is meant to be anything like what you are talking about. Most of us come here to exchange ideas, read the news, and find out what we can do with what we learn here outside of DU.

[ulTRAX]

74. the scope of the message board?

murielm99 wrote "I don't think the scope of a message board is meant to be anything like what you are talking about. Most of us come here to exchange ideas, read the news, and find out what we can do with what we learn here outside of DU."

A message board can have a grander purpose than what DU has been set up to do. Here's a proposal to do just that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460

BTW... I proposed this idea to another forum and they loved it... as long as it could be sabotaged so not be an ideological threat to the Democrats. DU members responding to the thread seemed to like the proposal... but DU "management" never bothered to respond. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=121x3304

So I'm going to do it on my own.

[banana republican]

57. It is a place that I can call HOME

Where ideas are respected; inquiries explored; vquestions answered; and lies exposed.

what has it accomplished???


HOPE.

[ulTRAX]

78. HOPE is not an abstraction....

Isn't hope faith that we're doing all we can to counteract the Right?

If I believed DU was fulfilling this role... I would not have started this thread

[KG]

61. kept me off the streets and out of trouble for 4 years

the women of St Pete are safer, not so much the women of DU. :)

[More Than A Feeling]

62. DU was a major player in getting Sinclair to pull its Kerry attack.

It has made me much more liberal, as well.

[proud patriot]

63. given me the courage to be more active with LTTES

and all my stickers etc.. I've also made
Friends for life with people accross the
country and the world .

[bpilgrim]

64. pass'n the word...

nuttin more important than that during these dark, corporate media controlled times.

congratulations :toast:

peace

[ulTRAX]

79. but the REAL question is........

With a bit more structure and direction... could DU have done more to fight the Right?

Endless rediscussion of topics is not an antidote to the neocons.

Focusing that energy might be.

[bvar22]

65. DU has had impact beyond measure.

I know we have many international visitors, and DU( among a few others) has let the International Community know that Amerika DOES NOT MARCH IN LOCKSTEP with bush*. They have posted that here. The bush* administration with the help of the CorpoMedia HAS TRIED to give that impression to the World. They have failed, and DU is part of the reason for their failure.

While DU only has about 65K registered members, there are multiple lurkers for every registered member. I think the admins have that info. It used to be posted on the thread (# of people who read the thread). I was surprised. The number of read bys was usually hundreds(IIRC) of times higher than responses.

I believe some of our more savvy politicians read DU regularly. I sometimes hear them parrot our stuff (and usually take credit for it).

I KNOW major broadcasters lurk here and use our stuff. This site would worthwhile for me if ALL it ever did was PISS OFF rush*, but they ALL visit here regularly. Hell, we are even quoted in the Wall Street Journal.

Personally, I have written many letters, hundreds (maybe thousands) of E-Mails, and made many phone calls that would not have happened without the motivation DU has given to me. I've stood on street corners with signs, pamphleted neighborhoods, and become directly involved in campaigns that would not have happened without DU. I have traveled out of town to attend protests and demonstrations, and met DUers from those towns.
So yes, DU has changed my life...significantly.


I DO understand your point. However, DU is a microcosm of the Democratic Party....herding cats.

For Example...Lets ALL get together and pick out ONE CANDIDATE for President in 2008, and FOCUS ALL of our energy and efforts to get him(or her) elected.......

Well, since no one said anything...I say DENNIS KUCINICH!!!!!
Now, EVERYBODY ALL TOGETHER.......Dennis for President!!!!

[ulTRAX]

67. beyond measure? Or is your yardstick pretty small?

Are you actually trying to say that 65k people could NOT be directed or better organized to accomplish more than what DU has? I don't think you're thinking big enough.

[bvar22]

73. I used the phrase "beyond measure"....

...simply because it is not possibe to measure the effects of DU.

What would YOU like to use DU to accomplish? Please be specific.


You could start YOUR own DU, and direct YOUR members in a way that YOU think would be more productive in achieving YOUR goals.

[ulTRAX]

76. starting my own DU is not out of the question

As for what proposals I'd like to see followed though on here's a sampling: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=121x3304

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1316860

[eridani]

83. Yes, Dennis! Dennis! Dennis! Dennis!

Well, he may or may not want to do that, but I see DU and other boards in cyberspace as a place to jump off from. We have to get into our communities at the precinct level and organize there.

[Orangepeel]

71. DU does what it does very well

it's a discussion board. It provides a much needed oasis in the right wing desert. It gives people knowledge, comfort and talking points. It serves as a clearinghouse for information on events and opportunities for activism.

Could it be more? Well, it could certainly be different. I'd hate to lose what it is and does so well now -- which could certainly happen by giving a "direction" to the site. We are a very diverse group with diverse goals.

[ulTRAX]

77. could DU be more?

OK..... we've both raised the question. What would YOU want?

[Orangepeel]

80. I think it does what it does very well (n/t)

[ulTRAX]

88. you avoided the question

I asked: OK..... we've both raised the question. What would YOU want?

[mandyky]

72. The news media drove me to DU

The run up to the war almost drove me crazy. I need to be around other people who get that this administration lies and is dangerous.

I get most of my news here at DU or now from AAR. I just found out I get Link TV and FreeSpeech TV, so I may start watching them now.

There is plenty here at DU to get involved in, or not, all depends on who and why person is here. When I first came to DU I thought people would wanna DO things, but many just want to talk or commiserate or educate or learn or share.

I'd like to see more goal setting but I doubt it happens.

[Disturbed]

82. DU has kept me from buying an AK 47 and...

joining a group that is intent upon using them. Kiddin'. ;0)

DU is my view is what one makes of it. For me it keeps me sane and I partipate localy in certain political events, I write letters and send emails. I don't expect a discussion board to be a political action group yet as some have said they have gotten together off Net.

[Bake]

81. So Ultrax, you've been here a little over a year

And you want to dictate? First of all, DU is a discussion forum. You don't own it.

Some of us come here for education. Some for ideas. Some for inspiration. Some, just to touch base with other activists. The internet, by itself, does nothing. PEOPLE do. What has DU done? DU, by itself, has done nothing. People, however, have done much. What you're saying is like asking, what has the telephone company done. This is simply a medium for communication. We communicate ideas on this forum. PEOPLE are what/who take action.

I daresay a large number of people have taken action -- CONCRETE actions -- based on the communication that they have participated in on DU.

So take your pseudo crap elsewhere. A message board, by itself, can do nothing. If you want something else, do it yourself. Organize a meeting of live people in your geographic area. Lead. Whatever.

Bake

[anarchy1999]

84. Amen.

n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

86. You said it better than I did.

[ulTRAX]

87. It's not what we've done... it's what COULD we have done.

I don't discount what you say... my point is simply that all that's been accomplished is a drop in the bucket... and it's clear the Left remains on the retreat and has LOST ground since DU has been around.

Given the threats to the nation I find it odd that someone would defend the wasting of so much energy in rehashing the same old issues over and over when it could be better directed and harnessed. While you look at what you see as having been accomplished I look at what COULD have been accomplished. The simple fact is what we need to reform the Democratic Party or counter the Right is NOT a project like Demopedia. It's just more me-tooism. We need to develop a 50 year plan of where we want to take this nation and that should start by systematically trying to state what values we actually believe in.

[ulTRAX]

92. what pseudo crap?

dbaker41 wrote: "So take your pseudo crap elsewhere. A message board, by itself, can do nothing. If you want something else, do it yourself. Organize a meeting of live people in your geographic area. Lead. Whatever."

I just have to ask.... what pseudo crap? My whole point is that DU can be MORE than a message board. Is this simple point so difficult to understand that you have to become insulting? Even as a message board it's not as efficient in promoting discussion as it could be. The GD forums are overused... and that defeats the entire purpose of having the topical forums. So anyone interested in a topic has a vested interest in not posting to the proper forum because all the action is in the GD forums. The whole point of setting up topicaal forums is to increase synergy between those interested in a topic. The very structure of the DU forums is counterproductive to that goal. So that's just another level of energy being wasted.

[Siyahamba]

89. I found information I wouldn't have elsewhere

If it weren't for DU, I never would have heard of the Count Every Vote rallies in Columbus, Ohio and at the 50 state capitols and DC. Just an example; there's much more.

[ulTRAX]

95. I haven't discounted this

I have never discounted what goes on here. My question is how much energy is wasted and how much MORE could be acomplished if the energy here were better directed.

[crazyzoeillinois]

90. DU does advance opinion

DU is a forum for people!!! It's on THE INTERNET!! OK!! We can get views out there that are blocked by the conservative media!!!

[ProfessorGAC]

91. Well, For One Thing, YOU Could Donate!

Sanctimonious claptrap.
The Professor

[ulTRAX]

93. my money goes to.......

Nice try at a diversion. So if I did donate would you be more open to what I was saying? I didn't think so. BTW... my money goes to places that delivers more bang for the buck... mostly MoveOn.

[ProfessorGAC]

97. It Was Not An Attempt At Diversion

MoveOn delivers more bang for the buck? Ok, that's your opinion. What have they done that is so much superior to this site? No results, right? Didn't think so.

You are the one throwing out the diversion. You criticize the site without an inkling of knowledge regarding the reasons people come here, their activism, their donation record. Your whole point is based upon utter ignorance and was made to castigate the site without knowing whether there was an ounce of truth to your criticism. AND I'M DIVERTING? Get a clue.

And yes, if you bothered to put your money where your mouth was apropos DU, then i would take your critique more seriously. But any smart ass can criticism something in which they have no vested interest. Don't try to challenge me, slick. You'll lose.
The Professor

[ulTRAX]

100. Are you so convinced DU has reached some state of perfection?

You completely AVOIDED responding to ALL of my original points and tried to make me the issue by posting only this:

"ProfessorGAC
91. Well, For One Thing, YOU Could Donate!
Sanctimonious claptrap.
The Professor"

ProfessorGAC wrote: "You are the one throwing out the diversion. You criticize the site without an inkling of knowledge regarding the reasons people come here, their activism, their donation record."

First of all I started this thread so I know what the topic is and when someone is trying to divert attention from it. I also acknowledged the reasons people come here in my first and follow-up posts. Are you suggesting I have no insight into what I come here?

ProfessorGAC : Your whole point is based upon utter ignorance and was made to castigate the site without knowing whether there was an ounce of truth to your criticism. AND I'M DIVERTING? Get a clue

My main point, one you seem determined to avoid, is whether there are other ways to organize DU to cut down on the wasted verbiage and to harness the energy. Are you so convinced DU has reached some state of perfection it can be nothing more?

I'm not.

[spanone]

94. Just look at the Jeff Gannon story.

If we do nothing but exchange ideas we are doing a lot. No need to keep score.

[ulTRAX]

96. by score you mean trying to measure wasted energy?

Yes there's an exchange of ideas going on. But without focus or direction most of that exchange results in an endless rehash of the same topics.

I think the REAL question is what can be accomplished by adding more structure and direction? Here was one suggestion I made... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2744460

Obviously DU would prefer to divert energy to Demopedia which on the surface sounds like a good idea... and I have a few entries there. But on reflection I think it's a waste of time. It's not the first and what's the point of diverting energy there when it's not helping create and implement a strategy to reform the Democratic Party or counter the Right. Should not these be our top priorities?

[Skinner]

101. I'm locking this thread.

And to answer to your question:

If you feel that the 1500 posts and 15 months you have invested here have not accomplished anything, then perhaps you should find a more productive use of your time and energy. DU has value to the people who come here. But this is still just a message board.