Are noisy kids in restaurants a serious, common problem where you live?

[UdoKier]

Poll question: Are noisy kids in restaurants a serious, common problem where you live?

Honestly, I was pretty dismayed by some of the absolutely hateful remarks about children and couples with kids in another thread. One poster claimed that only one time in the last six times he went out was peaceful.

Now maybe my area is exceptional - we live in San Francisco, there are not as many kids here as in the 'burbs, but there ARE kids. We go out at least once a week, and have not noticed this phenomena of horrible kids wreaking havoc everywhere.

Maybe it's because we're on a limited income, and the restaurants we frequent only range from Carl's Jr/Green Burrito at the bottom, to maybe a midrange informal Japanese or Chinese joint at the top. Our kids are almost always well-behaved, and they are disciplined if they aren't.

Is this some sort of suburban thing? I haven't seen it in the city.

POLL: Are noisy kids in restaurants, theaters, etc. a serious, common problem where you live?

[Stinky The Clown]

1. There was no choice for "it depends"

It depends on where I'm eating out. If the menu has wine on it (no matter the price, I use that as a criteria to judge a place as to its adult orientation vis a vis family orientation), I expect parents to have their kids well behaved. If I'm at MickeyD's, or any one of the many, many "family" restaurants, I never get upset.

Sadly, the kids who get dragged into "wine list" restaurants are more often misbehaving than kids in the "family" places. I have a theory about this, but it would be insulting to our more ..... uh ..... those folks who hang out on the clock dial around the 2, 3, or 4. (I'm a 9 kinda guy myself.)

[intheflow]

6. This is a good point.

If I'm eating at some fancy, expensive, dress-up restaurant it's one thing. But at Pizza Hut or Black-Eyed Pea or Villiage Inn or (insert your favorite mid-priced restaurant here), it's just life unfolding.

[blondeatlast]

18. The rule at the BAL household is that if our kid is with us, we better

see crayons. If they don't have crayons, we wait for "Date Night."

[lapislzi]

51. Yup, crayons = kid-friendly

If I want an adult evening with my SO we steer clear of the local chain restaurants and hit a privately-run establishment.

We love dining out with our daughter, but despite her good manners, she has a completely unsophisticated palate. We rarely take her anywhere where there isn't a kids' menu, even though, at 11, her tastes are becoming more grownup. With her it's got to be the local diner or Chili's.

A wine list is not always a reliable indicator, as my local diner has one (good thing, too).

[blondeatlast]

65. Exactly; many Denny's and the like serve wine.

If they've got crayons, don't take the date, okay, DU?

[KansDem]

94. Ugghh..."crayons..."

We too frequent restaurants that offer up crayons and something to draw on. However, once I stopped in at a restaurant I had been to many times with my daughter who was perhaps 3 or 4 at the time. We ordered our drinks and the server brought her lemonade in a small, plastic cup with lid and straw already inserted. These cups are the kind of "souvenir" cups you take home and use on a daily basis (they usually have the restaurant logo on them).

Well, when we were done eating we left and got into the car. She then pulled the top off the now-empty cup and we found the inside wall and bottom covered with crayon markings!: The restaurant had used the cup for storing and carrying crayons to previous young customers. Apparently, when my daughter asked for lemonade, the server just grabbed the cup and filled it not realizing what it was being used for.

Yuck! :puke:

[RPM]

45. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

you know for some "MickeyD's, or any one of the many, many "family" restaurants" is the best they can afford.

I would hate to think that you believe that kids can act like total assholes at Long John Silvers just because they don't serve win and have dinners for under $5/plate.

That $10 dinner for a poor couple may mean a lot more to them than another couples $100 dinner.

[shrike]

46. It's not kids who act like assholes

It's the parents. Kids don't spoil themselves.

I was having dinner once in a family restaurant. A couple with three kids sat nearby and the oldest boy had gotten himself a slew of superballs from one of the machines in the bar. He started throwing them around the restaurant. One of them hit me in the head. Dad meekly got up and started collecting them. The kid looked at me and prepared to throw another one. I looked him in the eye and said, "No," very firmly. He stopped throwing them. Meanwhile, mom and dad sat there helplessly.

Maybe mom and dad were just having a bad day. But you don't have to hate kids to know what is inappropriate behavior.

[RPM]

48. true

is it ok to correct (non-physically, of course) others' children when the parents dont?

i have contemplated doing just that a couple of times - never got up the nerve to do it.

[SmokingJacket]

93. I do it all the time.

If you bring your child into public, they're going to interact with the public. That is, if your child is obnoxious to me, I have the right to tell them so.

I have distinct memories of older people in my town making sure I behaved properly, and I guess I feel like I'm carrying the mantle for them.

A firm word from a stranger can be worth a thousand from your parents.

[Ravenseye]

49. Spot On

Sometimes I wish people would take parenting classes. It's not their fault really, they just have no clue, things get out of control and they have no idea what to do. They're controlled by their kids.

I find it funny when I see or hear about people who have 10 year olds who cry and whine for hours before they go to bed at night. That's a habit you can break in them when they're 4 months old, but people have no clue.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

56. What about Olive Garden?

You can get wine at the Olive Garden. I still think this is a family restaurant. We brought our 2 year old son there for lunch once. He made some whiny noises from time to time, which is to be expected from most 2 year olds. Everyone seemed to think he was really cute, though. He even said "thank you" to our waitress, which I think made her day.

[CalebHayes]

2. Even as a child I think that if small children are being noisy and are...

a distraction to others in the establishment then they should be asked to leave. There is a place for noisy kids, it's called McDonald's. Let your kid scream in the play land with the other insane children. If your paying $15 and up for your meal you deserve to be in an atmosphere that is tolerable. But I don't approve of the "no children policy." A large percentage of small kids can handle eating out. There is just a VERY noisy minority.

[UdoKier]

3. We've taken both kids out since they were infants.

There have been almost NO incidents. There have been a few times when the kids just seemed to antsy to sit down that long, so we kept them calm until we could finish our food, got doggie bags for theirs, and made a hasty exit. That's happened maybe twice in 7 years.

But we don't take them to really fancy places...

[intheflow]

4. "I've seen it sometimes but don't have a problem with it."

Honestly, kids are just being kids! Why do people have such a problem with this? Are they of the Victorian "Chidren should be seen but not heard" mentality? Are these the people who think all children should be drugged with Ritalin so that their natural enthusiasm becomes a bland monotone? C'mon, folks! Would you rather have parents yelling at their children in public? Can everyone here honestly say their own parenting skills are without reproach? Why not lighten up and enjoy the fact that the kids are living joyful moments instead of having to sit on their hands and shut up like they were in church?

[Nikia]

7. I agree

I am much more disturbed when a parent starts yelling at a child than when I child is being loud.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I don't think anyone said that

At least not as I read the posts so far.

As for me, it is about the appropriate place. And it isn't the kids, its the parents. I'm not espousing any particular sort of discipline for the kids. Kids are ... well ... kids. Its what they do. Its the parents who make the choice of where to go out to eat. If they think the kids are up to a more grownup's kinda restaurant on any given day, great! But if they're antsy and being loud, take 'em to McD's (or an equally kid-centric place) or stay home and cook.

That's not hard.

[intheflow]

16. This would be why I agreed wth your post above.

:hi:

[CalebHayes]

11. Then take your child to an establishment created with that in mind.

McDonald's was created with that in mind, there are many rip-offs of McDonald's out there with the same idea. Some places are designed to have a quite atmosphere and some people go there for that reason... it's quite. What if you work at a day care center and you just want to get away from small kids for a little bit? What if your like I am and go to a Junior High and have to deal with obnoxious kids all day long? Where should we go?

[intheflow]

15. What if you don't think your kids should eat McDonald-esque food?

There are a million reasons people choose where they go to eat with their families.

I work with obnoxious adults all day but that doesn't stop me from going to restaurants where the adult at the next table might be espousing political views I disagree with.

Plus, I find it hard to believe that people here are talking about jr. high aged kids. When they go out to dinner with their families they try to keep as low a profile as possible to live down the shame of being seen in public with their 'rents!

[CalebHayes]

39. Dude, I'm in JH.

I'm just using MCD's as an example, there are many other choices.

As far as obnoxious adults go, they aren't screaming their political beliefs. If they do they would be asked to leave. I think the same should apply to small kids. If they are a disturbance, they should be asked to leave.

[readmoreoften]

19. Look, I don't go pay to have a nice dinner to be stuck

listening to some child 'being him or herself'. There HAS TO BE SPACES for adults in this world. There is no reason to take small children to a restaurant. Fast food restaurants are a different story. I don't go into those places anyway. There are places for children: parks, playgrounds, museums, schools, libraries, G-rated movies, birthday parties with clowns and Chuck-E-Cheese.

There are also places where children should not be: slow-food restaurants.

I have a right to enjoy myself without being hostage to some screaming child while I'm paying for relaxation and a meal.

I would not rather you yell at your children or put them on ritalin. I would rather you not take them out to restaurants before they learn to modulate their voices. I was never taken to restaurants when I was a child and I turned out just fine.

[Pithlet]

28. Nope

Sorry, but you don't get to dictate where I and my children go. I do not let them scream and misbehave. I will not be relegated to McDonalds and Chuck-E-Cheese because of people like you.

[gollygee]

40. I frankly don't care what you'd rather I do, or what your parents did

I get to choose what to do with my kids. I don't take them to fancy restaurants. But I do take them places other than Chuck E. Cheese and McDonalds. Children and families have as much a right to be out in the world as you have.

[shrike]

47. See my above post

and see why some of us don't enjoy when kids are "being themselves."

[NervousRex]

5. If I am in the company of my Niece and Nephew....

and their "hands-off" parents it is guaranteed. The words "Family Restaurant" or "Family Dining" are NervousRex repellent.

[HeeBGBz]

9. I work in a restaurant

I've seen all kinds. Most stay put. Most are messy little creatures. Some are little monsters. Parents should keep their kids in their seats when they are in a restaurant unless they are at Chuckie Cheese.

Little kids running through a restaurant when you have servers delivering hot food and drinks in heavy glassware are a danger. I've been broadsided by kids before. For those who can't control their children, perhaps Spongebob leg irons are in order.

I love the babies, though. Even though they leave a mess in a 10 foot radius, I love their sweet faces. People have beautiful babies.

[tnlefty]

25. True, which is the reason that we tried to ensure our kids were

always sitting in a high chair, chair or a lap, but sometimes one of them will break loose. We were never far behind ours and usually caught them in less than 6 steps.

Our rules when ours were really young was if the place had white tablecloths it wasn't for us. I've been amazed at the people who are just downright assholes because a young one will begin to verbalize, or heaven forbid, voice displeasure when we've been out. This was going to midpriced restaurants at 4 or 5 in the afternoon to avoid long waits, which sends kids over the edge, and to try to ensure that there wouldn't be so many people who might get irritated.

[Guy Fawkes]

10. No, but it should be noted...

That I do not go to restaurants during hours that normal people do. (Think Perkins at 3 AM)

[tanyev]

12. Kids all over the place in Plano, TX.

I have heard that there are more restaurants per capita in the North TX suburbs than anywhere else in the country. Don't know if that's the truth, but people here eat out a lot more than they stay home and cook.

Perhaps it's because of the affluence in this area, but I am constantly amazed when we go to what I think is a "splurge" restaurant and find kids running around all over the place. It's fine as long as the kids are well behaved, but I guess it still surprises me because the only time my entire family went to a pricey restaurant when I was growing up was for very special occasions.

[cmd]

13. Children need discipline in a public place

There are places for children to run and shout. Restaurants are not one of them. It's not a matter of kids just being kids; its a matter of teaching appropriate behavior in public places. That is the parents job. I get very annoyed when I go out for dinner and am forced to listen to a child whine, bang the table, get out of his/her seat and run around while the adults ignor the situation.

Before you condemn me for speaking up; please understand that I am not against children eating in restaurants. However, if you chose to take a child out, be prepared to spend some quality time teaching them to behave appropriately. That means paying attention to the child, talking with him/her and modeling dinner manners.

Discipline is not a grounding or a spanking, it is the ability to be respectful of others even when you are not happy about being in a situation. Adults are the role models. If your child is acting out, it reflects right back on you.

[CalebHayes]

14. Well put

[UdoKier]

24. I liked that one too.

Well put.

[rene moon]

53. Exacttly

That is what iwas trying to convey on the previous thread. My parents did the same when we were kids, and I think we all turned out fine Dems.

[Igel]

17. I have just one kid, he's pretty well behaved when out of the

apt. Can't guarantee that'll be the case every time, though. Last time we went out the only thing that kept the kid quiet was having a spoon to chew on and through on the ground (being the neurotic middle class people we are, once the spoon hit the restaurant floor, it was no longer fit for being in the kid's mouth). We ran through every clean spoon at the table, and then ambushed the waiter for new spoons every time he got near.

My ma was the kind of person who whined and griped whenever there was a kid making noise on an airplane, in a store or restaurant. My only response at the time was that they're the people who would be paying FICA when she collected social security, the people who would stock the shelves in the grocery store when she was old, staff the restaurants and banks and troubleshoot her cable tv. It would shut her up for a while.

Now she's 77, the kids she complained about are in their 20s and 30s and 40s ... paying FICA while she's collecting, troubleshooting her cable, stocking shelves at stores, serving her in restaurants ...

[Johonny]

20. I hate

it when your in one of those restaurant/bars when they let kids into the bar part of place. In a family restaurant I expect to see families but in the bar I don't expect to see little Jimmy!

[DARE to HOPE]

21. Well, I confess, my two grandsons are the worst...

...they have been through a divorce, where no one spoke honestly with them, so of course, they act out.

More to the general problem: few children are raised at the dinner table anymore, with all the courtesy, conversation and camaraderie that one learns. There are two to five jobs per household, leaving little time for children at all. So by the time parents drag their tired kids to the local restaurant, what they are really looking for is some conversation with the other adult. So, then, the kids act out to get attention.

The other problem: many parents don't even know what good dinner behavior is, so there is no model set. Grateful hearts for good food treat the whole procedure with a little more reverence, and respect for one another.

God willing, this will only get better with awareness.

[smbolisnch]

26. Very good points!

"many parents don't even know what good dinner behavior is"

I don't have kids, but several of my friends have young children, toddler age. One of them, and only one, has excellent manners. She has probably hardly even been yelled at, but she is what I call "the perfect child".

After reading your post and thinking about it, it's because her mother has impeccable manners and so naturally, that is what she picks up. Some of my other friend's children otoh, are absolute heathens. I almost left a restaurant at the beach last year b/c my friend's son was banging his silverware together over and over while screaming...moooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!! I could have died. :eyes:

ETA:
I DO NOT think all children are obnoxious and ill behaved. Not at all. I just think that there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior. i.e. banging silverware in a restaurant. Inappropriate :)

[liontamer]

22. my objection isn't to their presence, but the time

I live in nyc, I don't mind people taking kids to restaurants at reasonable times. I'll put up with kids almost anywhere during day time/early evening. What I hate is seeing kids out past 10 pm. And there should be no babies in a coffee shop at midnight ever. Even if the kid is well behaved I don't think he or she should be there. These are grown up times, and your kids should be in bed.

[MountainLaurel]

44. Good point

To quote a friend of mine on this issue:

"If you don't want your kids to see two women leading a man wearing a studded leather collar, don't take them out to dinner at 11 pm on a Saturday night in Dupont Circle."

(For the uninitiated, Dupont is a neighborhood in Washington, DC, known for having an active gay community, and thus, it's much less uptight than other areas of the city.)

[Midlodemocrat]

61. It also is not fair to the child.

Mine never went out to eat with us until they were older. They need to be in bed much earlier than 10PM. JMO.

[AlCzervik]

23. Because i have a kid maybe i don't notice it as much

as someone else does. In general we go to places that are fancy but now and then we will when we are on vacation and i always see kids.

[Amaya]

27. No, pretentious yuppies bother me more

Kids don't bother because I've got some. Sometimes they're noisy. Never obnoxious. If a child is out of control that parent needs to take that child out of the situation. Not all children are wreaking havoc.

[Lilith Velkor]

78. Like the guy at a local diner

Always yelling into his damn cellphone. Haven't seen him in a while, perhaps management has finally dealt with him. I hope.

[Bouncy Ball]

29. We've rarely ever had a problem with it

and we live in the burbs. Big Time Burbs.

We taught our daughter from a young age how to act appropriately in a variety of situations and places. When she was a toddler, one of us would simply take her outside if she got too loud. We would NEVER let her disrupt other people's meals.

[Pithlet]

30. Sorry. Guess we have to pay for the sins of bad parents

and relegate ourselves to McDonalds, because a small group of people can't stand to be around kids. Nice and progressive, huh?

[Bouncy Ball]

31. What?

Was that directed to me?

I don't understand. We never eat at McDonald's. If people can't stand to be around kids, oh well. The world's full of 'em. And mine doesn't bother anyone.

[Pithlet]

32. Read my post again :)

I'm on your side.

[Bouncy Ball]

34. That's what I figured, sorry!

Feeling jumpy, I guess! Mea culpa.

[Pithlet]

36. It's okay.

I've done the same thing :)

[ultraist]

38. Not me! I will not enter a McDs! The smell makes me sick.

My children go with us to all sorts of restaurants and not just the low end ones like Pizza Hut or Perkins.

My kids are well behaved but GUESS WHAT? Children ARE PART OF THE GREATER COMMUNITY! To be so intolerant, UPTIGHT, and rigid, is odd.

Maybe we should also ban the elderly from certain areas in the PUBLIC community because they move slowly. I mean, geez, how long does it take to get your wallet out of our pocketbook and take your change?

Feel the love!

[Pithlet]

41. I absolutely agree.

But there will always be a group of people who do not see kids as human beings. It must be a sad and frustrating life indeed to be so upset by a huge part of the population. To me, it is their problem. This isn't just about misbehaving kids. Much of the time the same people would be outraged by a kid just being in their presence, no matter how well behaved. I've already seen one post about someone who was outraged right when the kids walked into an establishment.

[Renew Deal]

33. They are if I go to Chucky Cheese

Otherwise, no.

[jdots]

35. Muffy and I always leave Justin and Ashley with our nanny

If I hear one more scum bag talking so loud on thier cell phone in some dorky resteraunt they won't be able to have children !!!
Sorry I love kids and would rather listen to them screaming like banshees than a cell phone converation.

[El Fuego]

37. I don't frequent establishments where people take kids.

[Lilith Velkor]

79. Bingo!

I don't like kids, but love to cook, so it works out.

[Jack_DeLeon]

42. Maybe its just me...

but when I'm at a restaurant I'm usually more conerned with eating than worrying about the noise level. As long as no one is screaming in my ear I dont really care.

I remember a while back reading some poll about people who think that cell phones should be banned in restaurants, I thought that was completley assinine. WTF when did people start thinking that retaurants were libraries?

[dsc]

43. There are places for children and places that children shouldn't be

A couple of months ago I was at my highschool's Christmas concert. The choir at my high school is unbelievable. These young men and women work their asses off and it shows in the product. Small children and babies had no business being there. They got nothing out of it and lessened the experience for the people around them. Children can't be expected to behave at a concert for a couple of hours. They get bored.

Some resteraunts are similar. I generally don't eat at high end resteraunts but on the very rare occasion that I do, I should be able to enjoy my meal and converse with my companion without having to scream over someone else. That is the whole point of going to a high end resteraunt. And regardless of the place, if your child can not or will not sit then s/he needs to be left home for his or her own safety. I worked at a resteraunt for a few months when I was in college and in just that short amount of time we had two collisions between a waitress and a child who was running around. Fortunately no one was hurt but the danger was there.

[AutumnMist]

50. My Husband And I

have been taking my daughter out to all kinds of places to eat since she was born. She has had her moments, in McDonald's or not, we just put a stop to it. One afternoon my husband and I were shopping and stopped into a Irish restaurant/pub for fish and chips. Our daughter was with us. A couple was brought to the table next to us and they declined to sit near a table that had a toddler. After we got up to leave the wife of the couple who declined to sit near us came up to me as we were leaving and said "you have a very well behaved daughter". I could never understand two things when families take their children to places that are more geared to adults. The first is the family who takes nothing for their children. Bring a doll, a pencil and paper, or a book. Bringing something along helps kids look at something other than a menu. LOL. Plus we have turned it into a learning thing with our daughter. Example: What color is the napkin? How many forks are on the table? And secondly we have friends who take their kids out when they are soooo tired. 11 o'clock dinners I think are great if your kids can handle it. But after the kids have been in preschool all day and they are getting up at 6 am the next morning? Its hard on children to stay up so late, be frazzled and then behave at dinner. No matter where you go.

[Fescue4u]

52. Kids are part of society to

If you don't like eating near my kids, you are welcome to leave the restaurant.

I won't miss you.

[lukasahero]

57. If your kids are well-behaved, no problem... eom

[ProfessorGAC]

54. I See It. It's Not A Major Problem, I Don't Think

But, when i go to dinner with mom, wife, sister and her daughters, i can say they NEVER leave the table, NEVER disrupt when the wait staff is at the table, NEVER complain or pout, nothing!

But, i do see kids occasionally running around, or whining about being there too long. Not a great problem, and the places we go it's fairly rare.

It's annoying when it happens, and i think the parents should get control of things, but it doesn't happen often enough for me to consider a problem.
The Professor

[lukasahero]

55. To me the issue is really about parents who don't teach their children

good manners. My husband and I aren't kid people and we can be pretty self-righteous when we see kids behaving badly. (I admit, we're not perfect and this can be a sticking point with us.) On the other hand we're likely to make a point of telling the parents of well behaved kids that we noticed.

On one side of the family, my sister's kids know how to behave in a fancy restaurant and get many compliments from other patrons to that effect. My sister-in-law's kid, however, was literally running around a restaurant flaunting the fact that he knew a) he was misbehaving and b) that my sister-in-law would not discipline him for it. (She believes in "reasoning" with him over absolutely everything - yeah, good luck with that - seems to be working well.)

I've seen kids at buffet restaurants (mostly Chinese) picking up food with their hands, seen them put it in their mouth and put it back, seen them run around the place all while the parents are just having their own good time. I especially like the ones that come up to our table and expect us to entertain them only to have the parents get snarky when we're not interested in entertaining their kid. There are places where kids can go and behave like that and it's right and appropriate to have such places. On the other hand, it's also right and appropriate to have places where unruly and ill-behaved children aren't allowed to run the place.

My frustration isn't with kids per se. It's with ill-behaved kids but even moreso with parent's who don't do the job of parenting.

[GumboYaYa]

58. I'm a parent who takes his kids to restaurants frequently.

Nevertheless, I have little patience for parents who let there kids go crazy while they dine.

We have been taking our kids to restaurants since they were very young. If we are going to a nice restaurant where loud children are not acceptable, we talk about our expectations for their behavior before we go. When we are at the restaurant, we pay attention to our children, engaging them in conversation and listening to them as if they are equals. No child is perfect, but my children rarely act up at a restaurant. If they do, I am very sensitive to the other patrons and will remove the child to a place where we can talk about being polite and using manners privately.

I think one reason kids act up in restaurants is that the parents don't pay attention to them once they get there. Parents get started drinking and talking and expect kids to sit there quietly. Sorry, but kids require lots of attention and unless you give it to them in abundance you are just asking for trouble.

[sarcasmo]

59. My wife and I asked to be moved when they get out of control.

We go to this nice five star place in Florida right on the water. Three screaming kids at one table where the food is about twenty five dollars each, your paying for the location as much as the food. We told the waiter that if they didn't' control the one screaming kid we were leaving. The waiter walked over talked to the women, she gave us a death scare took the kid outside for a bit and came back the kid was better. There are ways to deal with this and let the business know that a couples kids are trashing your night out. These parents need to take the kid to chuckee cheese not an expensive place.

[ultraist]

60. Loud and ill mannered adults are a worse problem IMO

Adults do some of the rudest things in restaurants like pick their teeth, blow their nose, laugh obnoxiously loudly, make inappropriate comments loud enough for others to hear and be offended. They SHOULD know better. I generally avoid "adult only" places because they are so loud, smoky, and filled with drunk lecherous men.

I would suggest to those who have little insight into child development and no tolerance to do the same, avoid places that allow children. OR, go out to eat during off hours when MOST children are home in bed.

Furthermore, I think what has to be the worst situation though are adults that make inappropriate comments to children. We were in a family style restaurant once when my daughter was about 4 and the man in the booth behind us, kept trying to engage my daughter and was telling her "how pretty" she is and asked her to come sit with him! What a freak. I had to give him, "the back off child molestor, don't encourage my kid to talk to strangers who attempt to lure kids in."

Children are more often VICTIMS in our society than they are perpetrators. Go witch hunt some child serial rapists rather than children, your time will be better spent.

[UdoKier]

62. The suburban/urban discrepancy is pretty amazing, isn't it.

I've noticed for years that kids in the suburbs behave worse than kids in the city, and the newer and more affluent the suburb, the worse the kids are.

Isn't that funny?

I had a co-worker back in Miami who told me that he would never ride the Metrorail because one time he"saw a black guy on the train, and he was RAPPING!" I was like, "and?..." And he was like "That's it." He was so paranoid about blacks and the inner city, where I later moved. The suburbs we lived in were FULL of horrible, rude teens with tricked-out cars with boom stereos, and the kids were rude and obnoxious.

When we moved into the city, we found that most of the kids in my son's school were lower income children of latin American immigrants who spoke English as a second language. And they were all beautiful, neat, polite, sweet kids, not jaded brats like their suburban counterparts. I don't know what the poison is in suburbia (probably rampant materialism), but I would not want to raise my kids there.

Totally subjective rant OVER.

[Lilith Velkor]

81. Yup.

It's an important part of white privilege to never show consideration to others. I grew up in Montgomery County MD, seen it all the time.

Fortunately, rich spoiled racist pigs tend to avoid DC. For example, Bush spends more than half his time out of town and only shows up when he has to. Guess he doesn't like having produce flung at his limo by the locals.

[geniph]

63. The vast majority of kids are just fine

but that 2% or so - oooh, lord, they can ruin a meal in no time flat. I'm not talking about a toddler laughing and squealing - I'm talking about the ones - maybe 2 in every hundred - who are permitted, by their oblivious parents, to run around uncontrolled, tripping servers, grabbing things off other tables, or standing up and turning around in their booth and snatching at my hair with sticky fingers. Lest you think that is uncommon, let me assure you that I no longer will eat in the general restaurant area of certain restaurant chains because it happens about every third time I eat there. (For some reason, toddlers are fascinated with my hair, and there's a whole lot of parents out there who do not see a problem with them grabbing it.)

The vast majority of adults are fine, too, but I've seen restaurants be far more pro-active at hustling the problem adults out of the place than they are with parents who don't control the young 'uns. (I think they're more afraid to ask people to control their kids than they are to ask adults to cool it.)

I've only seen a patron get in a knock-down drag-out with a restaurant manager trying to eject them once - it wasn't a drunken adult either, it was a party who was being asked to leave because their kids were completely out of control (and I mean way out of control, I'm not talking about a little crying or fussing). The whole party completely flipped their lids and threatened violence and lawsuits and yelled and screamed - no wonder the kids were out of control. What whackjob people! I've never seen anything like it before, and hope I never see it again. I've seen drunks get a bit belligerent when cut off, but not like that!

[SiouxJ]

64. It's noisy kids in restaurants and usually noisy adults in theaters

around me. Teenagers in movie theaters are surprisingly well behaved, but I've had to ask senior citizens to shut up during a Harry Potter flick.

I live in a rural tourist town, so maybe it's a local phenomenon, but people bring their kids to bars with them. My old hang outs are over-run. I go in to have a beer and kids are running around while their parents are sitting down ignoring them. I don't understand why they want to bring their kids to a bar. I think they miss their old child-free days and believe they should still be able to hang out in bars even if that means bringing their kids with them. There are drunk people, swearing and smoking in these places and people bring their kids there. Nice.

[Logansquare]

91. "while their parents are sitting down ignoring them"

That is the *key* to problem kids in any public setting. I understand when a toddler is fussy, but allowing kids to play tag in a restaurant? I stopped one such game and told them to "go back and sit with mommy," who was too busy sucking down a bottle of wine to watch her kids.

[LawDem]

66. Give the parents a break -- often it's not their fault

Forgive me, but I get a bit of a chuckle out of the posts that imply that if kids act up in a restaurant it’s got to be the parents’ fault. I’m reminded of a story a child psychologist once told me: She was friends with a couple who had two children -- the sort of kids who just pop out of the womb well behaved. All the parents had to do was give them a cross look and they’d fall apart, begging for forgiveness. They never had a lick of trouble with them in restaurants and other public places. And boy howdy, did these two consider themselves to be parenting experts: Whatever problem someone else was having with their children, these two had the answer. “Just do xyz,” they’d say, “and those kids will snap right into line.”

Then, as they say, fate took a hand: These two parenting masters had a third child. And this one wasn’t anything like the other two. This one had ornery tattooed above both eyes; and whatever they’d do, this kid wouldn’t mind. None of their foolproof methods worked. And all of a sudden, they became a hell of a lot less free with their parenting advice.

The fact is that some kids are tougher than others: Some are little angles and some are little devils -- and to be honest with you, I’ll take the devils (which is just as well since I have two of them). And the truth is that unless you’re one of those bastards who believe that discipline means beating a kid with a belt, no parent can control their small kids in every situation. Sometimes small children will cause a big fuss no matter how well they’re parented.

Now, obviously parents should be courteous of others, which, in our case, means we never take the kids to a non-family friendly restaurant. And we work as hard as we can to keep them reasonably quiet even there. But sometimes you get caught. Sometimes you think Applebee’s should be cool, you order, and then one of the kids blows a gasket. And then you’re stuck doing the best you can. And when that happens, having someone with a little tolerance at the next table is a blessing beyond description.

[Obamarama]

67. I am like a magnet for screaming kids in restaurants....

I kid you not. I can go in, be seated in a section that has almost nobody in it, and I swear to the gods that about 50% of the time before I am halfway through my meal there will be an unhappy child caterwaling away within a five-table radius. Thankfully, the other 50% of the time most of the kids seated near me are only minimally annoying, or are perfectly behaved cute-as-a-button toddlers who will coo and smile at you from the confines of their high-chair.

That being said, whether or not I get upset depends on the restaurant and the reaction of the parents. If I'm in a family style chain (think Applebee's, Chili's,etc...) I just accept it and figure it goes with the territory. Little kids are going to act like little kids, and that means on occasion they are going to wail and gnash their teeth in public settings. Only those with dispositions similar to Oscar The Grouch could harbor too much ill will toward the offending tot. Actually, a lot of kids do pretty well in restaurants. But if one does act up, I have found within a few minutes the kid usually calms down or the parent takes appropriate measures to minimize the annoyance to fellow diners. I don't have kids myself, but I can still empathize with parents who get caught in this situation.

If the kid goes endlessly bonkers, however, and the parents don't seem to care then it's a different story. I give the parents a icy glare. Even in a family-friendly restaurant, the least a parent can do if the kid just won't stop screaming or acting up is to get up, take the child from the table and go to the lobby, the restroom, the car or SOMEWHERE until the kid calms down. I can accept the fact that your kid is being fussy and cut you some slack until they get it out of their system, but c'mon...don't ruin everyone's dining experience (if one can call dining at Applebee's and "experience") by subjecting them to half an hour of your little Damian or Regan communing with demons from the depths of dining hell.

As for fine dining settings, children simply don't belong there. There are rare exceptions, but unless you have schooled them in how to properly behave at a dinner table ala Miss Manners you have no business dragging your child to a setting where people are shelling out $75 to $100 or more a couple for dinner.

The same goes for young adults. My partner and I were at a fine French restaurant in Chicago called Ambria. All the adults were dressed appropriately, with men in suits and sport coats and women in dresses or nice suits. In walks in two appropriately dressed adults with their two sons wearing....khakis, un-tucked button down Ralph Lauren oxford shirts and sporting baseball caps, worn backwards ala clueless fratboy, of course. Up-scale suburban casual-wear for sure, but NOT appropriate for this level of restaurant. When you're dropping $150 for dinner, part of what you're paying for is the fun of dressing up and dining in an elegant setting. Did it ruin my meal? No. I sort of rolled my eyes and got over it, but it just rubbed me the wrong way. Clearly at their age (early-to-mid teens) they should have known how to dress appropriately for this type of restaurant, and their parents should have at the very least required that they tuck in their shirts and leave the caps in the car.

[Logansquare]

73. Wow, anyone who takes their kids to Ambria

has too much money. I bet the kids didn't even want to go.

[Tracer]

68. How about a view from the other side of the table?

My daughter has spent the last 4 years waitressing at a mid-to-upper range restaurant while putting herself through college. (She just graduated with a B.S. - yay!)

While I've listed to her complaints about:

- lousy tippers
- rude customers
- people who won't leave, even as the lights are being turned off
- lazy co-workers
- incompetent management,

I've NEVER heard one peep from her in four years about noisy kids.

[ultraist]

69. Children are the most victimized persons in our society

And judging by many comments on this thread, it's no wonder. I am shocked by the punitive attitude shown toward children, as if they are second class citizens.

What a shame that so many are whining that on a few occasions their meal was disrupted by kids being kids. Why don't you take that money you spend for dinners that cost several hundreds of dollars and FEED SOME HUNGRY CHILDREN!

How selfish and elitist to obsess on banning children from restaurants when many children go without meals.

The fact is, the large majority of parents with children cannot afford to pay several hundreds of dollars for one meal. Get real! It's VERY RARE that children frequent these establishments. YET, some take a RARE event and blow it out of proportion as an excuse to demonize children. How sad.

GO SIGN UP TO MENTOR A CHILD OR DONATE FOOD TO A FOOD PANTRY! And stop whining like elitist REPUKES.

[lukasahero]

70. And who's to say we don't already do that?

Good f*cking chr*st could you be any more self-righteous?

[ultraist]

74. What's self righteous is spending all of this time whining about children

Rather than focusing on how to help children.

Boo FUCKING HOO that on a few occassions children were noisy. I think the attitude reveals quite a lot and it's not very Democratic.

Why don't we whine that we had to get lower grade leather seats in our luxury vehicles because animal activists have run up the costs of leather?

Whine about something that fucking MATTERS!
####

35,000 children under the age of five die every single day from starvation and malnutrition

800 million people are going hungry daily, mostly children

50% of the world's children are severely underweight

Over five million people die each year due to malnutrition. Millions more survive, but their growth and intelligence are stunted due to a lack of vital nutrients

[Obamarama]

72. FYI....

Just for the record, I volunteer two weekends a month sorting donated food items at a food pantry, and I am also a Big Brother to two under-privelaged brothers. Their mother can rarely afford to take them out for dinner, and even when they do it's some place very inexpesive and definitely not fancy, but you know what? Those two boys are amazingly well mannered.

As Phil Donohue was fond of saying to people who couldn't make their opinion clear during the phone-in segment: WHAT'S YOUR POINT, CALLER?

Where did you get the notion that the desire to dine out without suffering through 30 minutes of The Bride of Chucky at the next table is an "elitist Repuke" one?

[ultraist]

77. Point is, we should be whining about something that FUCKING MATTERS!

Demonizing children does NOT help to support children's rights.

And whining that a meal that cost several hundred bucks was interrupted by noisy children sounds VERY ELITIST considering that 35,000 children a DAY STARVE TO DEATH!

I think we have better things to whine about.

[txaslftist]

71. Gotta go with "don't give a crap."

Sure, I like a nice, quiet upscale meal with my wife once in a while, and I know a nice place to go. The management puts couples in one part of the restaurant and kids generally speaking, in another, and anyone who wants a crayon can have one.

On the other hand, I go to Applebees, Pizza Hut, Micky-Dees, I expect there to be a bunch of screaming kids there, or at least I don't care if there are any.

My kids are quiet and well behaved, mostly as a result of my wife's discipline, but hey, noisy kids...it's part of living in the human village, baby. You don't want to hear noisy kids? Go eat at at the cafeteria in the retirement home. Hell, they MISS hearing kids scream.

Pitied myself for having no shoes until I saw the man with no feet.

[Misunderestimator]

75. Oh .... they're everywhere... especially airports and planes...

just a couple of weeks ago... sitting in a nearly empty terminal, some couple hauls their bratty little loud mouth to sit right next to me... whereupon he proceeded to fart the stinkiest, foulest aroma I've ever experienced. And they usually kick the back of my seat too.

[KT2000]

76. loud groups of golfers

are a problem though. they can be really obnoxious.

[WoodrowFan]

80. not Virginia instituted its "Concealed Carry" law.

not Virginia instituted its "Concealed Carry" law. A good shot can wing one of the noisy little rugrats from clear in the smoking section of a Chilis!! Hehheh :evilgrin:

[Lilith Velkor]

82. *snarf*

Yer funny. :thumbsup:

[WoodrowFan]

83. ty

and welcome to DU. :hi:

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go clean and load "Old Betsy" before I take the wife to IHOP.

[graywarrior]

84. I manage a bookstore and I love it when little kids shit their pants

and mom lets them wander through the store leaving a nice trail of poop scent. It adds to the ambience. I especially love it when the little kids dig into their pants and then handle the books after.

Little kids are WMD in stores and restaurants.

[ultraist]

85. Better keep old people & paraplegics out too, they also shit their pants

Why don't we punish those who are not yet potty trained or who have lost control of their faculties like old people and paraplegics. That sounds like a good idea. Do not allow them in the stores.

Better yet, lets set up communities by age group and set up an unnatural village setting. Oh wait, we already do that by shoving old people in homes on the outskirts of a community. Those old bastards are such a pain, lingering on longer, driving slowly on the roads, & moving slow in the stores.

Let's keep the pain in the ass children, the handicapped and old people OUT of our communities, mandate them to institutions.

[AutumnMist]

86. I Wouldn't Go That Far

The kids aren't WMD (and that's a harsh term) the parents who don't change them or watch them are the problem. Little ones shouldn't have to make their parents take care of them. They aren't the adults. Mom and Dad are.

[graywarrior]

88. I'm always amazed at the defenseness taken when kids are

criticized. Would never harm one, but I really don't like them. And I won't apologize for that either.

[AutumnMist]

96. Thats Fine

I guess you and I are on different ends of the spectrum. I won't say I am sorry for defending them either. You are an adult, carry your own views through your own voice on this forum. Children don't have the same luxury. Think what you would like. I respect that.

[Der Blaue Engel]

87. You should have differentiated red state/blue state

I'm just sayin'.

:evilgrin:

[MrSlayer]

89. I've never had a problem with this.

Mainly because I ignore everyone else around me anyway.

[WLKjr]

90. if the kids are unruly it's the parents fault usually

at least from what I have seen through the years. I have seen parents just let thier kids go in places and cause problems with out even batting an eye about what the little squirts do to others, the furniture, the food.....when I was little I never did crap like that becuase I was taught manners early on with a few maple limbs and some talking to from my grandpa.

[superconnected]

92. sometimes I think I'm just too liberal for this site

like my acceptance of noisy kids in restaurants, and how I rarely even notice if a kid is misbehaving. They always seemed fine to me.

But really, it's the mass amount of du-ers that can't handle views other than their own that really makes me think I'm just too liberal.

Like the other restaurant thread where they attacked kids, and then parents who said they had good kids got attacked, etc.

So I voted, but won't hang on the thread long. Glad others also have child tolerance.

[toddaa]

97. Disturbing, isn't yet?

I've occasionally been subjected to the unruly child in a restaurant, but those incidents have been so few and far between, that I hadn't give it much thought. I had no idea that some people hated and feared kids so much.

[Lilith Velkor]

98. 'scuse me, but

I don't consider a 70-decibel "WAAAAAAH!" a view other than my own.

I see it as more of a managment problem than bad parenting. I mean really, if I were to bring a boombox to a restaurant and crank the Sex Pistols the better to enjoy spicy chicken pasta, a reasonable person would expect that I would be asked to leave. That doesn't qualify as attacking kids to me.

Sounds like there were some real twits on the other thread, though. Glad I missed it.

[lonestarnot]

95. WTFIT? Don't we have bigger problems?