We need to get out of Iraq

[realFedUp]

Just a strong feeling I have today.

I know in my head that this administration
isn't going anywhere but this will just
be more costly in lives and money and to
our weakening democracy.

[bryant69]

1. who knows what the future holds

I think we do need to start pulling out now that they have had their elections. Maybe we will.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[physioex]

2. The elections are a farce......

And I am sure you know that. I don't see boys at PNAC wanting to leave Iraq so quickly. They want a permanent presence in the middle east so they can go after Iran, Syria, and the security of Israel.

These people are very twisted, and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the US to leave anytime soon....

[bryant69]

3. If the elections were a farce

Why didn't Allawi and his party win? Certainly he would have been much more palatable than who we have now.

Bryant

[12345]

4. did they announce a winner yet?

[physioex]

5. Exactly...

I am not aware of any results or how the vote went. I don't question the results of the elections. I just question the whole methodolgy and the ability of this to succed. How will this government that is to be elected stand once the US is no longer providing stability.

[bryant69]

7. OK. If Allawi loses and the Shi-ite religious parties win

which seems like just now, well, than we'll continue this discussion.

[physioex]

9. I don't doubt what you are saying....

In that Allawi is going to lose. I just don't see any long term stability regardless of who wins or loses this election.

[bryant69]

13. Oh I don't either

And I dont' think us staying or leaving will have much effect on the stability--but a successful election might indicate the best time to leave with honor (well as little honor as we can scrape out of this mess). And if Allawi looses the election, odds are higher that it can be accepted as a legitimate election.

[physioex]

14. "Best time to leave with honor "......

Tell that to Wolfie, Perly, and Rummy and see what happens....

Homey don't play that.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I don't see any of this happening.

[Extend a Hand]

16. our govt. doesn't care who wins as long as...

they get the oil...and can camp our military out on top of the oil reserve...Seems kind of like they made a deal with the SCIR back in December:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/21100/

Sadly, our government does not now and has never had any compunction about getting in bed with the most repressive of regimes.

[K-W]

19. Because this is more complex than that.

Because the US knows that if they dont include popular Iraqi leaders it will be facing an even larger resistance. Because as long as the government does what we want we really dont care if allawi is running it or someone else.

Allawi is there, and he will be in the mix along with the other US friends, but right now we are trying to broker a permanant situation in which the kurds and shiites support a government that fits the US's designs so we can pull our forces back into bases, and with our help the new Iraqi government can put down the resistance without losing too many more american lives and freeing up US forces for use elsewhere in the world.

They do want to pull troops out, but not to hand Iraq over to Iraqi's, they want troops out so they can send them elsewhere.

[leftchick]

21. Uh, the US is NOT pulling out in at least a "generation"

I know it is Insane, and it most likely won't work, but here is their plan for a permanent presence in the Mid-East which the US (us!) are paying BILLIONS for...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2281&ncid=742&e=5&u=/thenation/20050118/cm_thenation/132132

~snip~

Though the media ignored Kerry's statement and failed to do any substantive follow-up research, his comments were well-grounded in reality. On the day of the debate the Christian Science Monitor spotlighted the findings of defense specialist John Pike, whose website, GlobalSecurity.org, located twelve "enduring bases" in Iraq, including satellite photos and names. In March, the Chicago Tribune reported that US engineers were constructing fourteen such long-term encampments--the number Kerry referred to. The New York Times previously placed the number at four.


While the exact figure may change, suspicions of undisclosed US imperial plans--exemplified by permanent military bases--rightfully linger. Before the war, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suggested moving US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia into Iraq. In October, a survey by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes found that two-thirds of respondents disapproved of a permanent military presence, even though more than half thought the US would build the bases anyway.


Now comes a report in the New York Sun by Eli Lake revealing that the Pentagon (news - web sites) is building a permanent military communications system in Iraq, a necessary foundation for any lasting troop presence. The new network will comprise twelve communications towers throughout Iraq, linking Camp Victory in Baghdad to other existing (and future) bases across the country, eventually connecting with US bases in Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan (news - web sites).


"People need to get realistic and think in terms of our presence being in Iraq for a generation or until democratic stability in the region is reached," Dewey Clarridge, the CIA (news - web sites)'s former chief of Arab operations (and Iran-contra point man), told the Sun.

[ooglymoogly]

6. it is a pandora's box, a can of poisonous worms, bottomless quicksand

it can only get worse, our actions can only be described as profound idiocy. how many more dead before we realize it

[realFedUp]

8. if visuals of dead bodies were on the news every night....

like they should be, Americans would
be less than complacent about our military
presence.

[physioex]

11. Maybe......

But shocks me how complacent and apathetic people are, and most people just don't give a shit. I am sorry to say.

[realFedUp]

12. I think it's a constant state of fear and oncoming issues

by the Rovian administration that keep people
going from one from concentrating on one issue
at a time.

It's evil.

[physioex]

15. I also hate to say this....

But I don't care anymore, let em learn the hard way. I am tried of this and I am going to get mine.

[realFedUp]

17. That's probably not God speaking to you....

I know the feeling and sentiment though...
it's hard to keep vigilant and resistant
to all the evil doing the Bushies are doing.

[ooglymoogly]

22. but then g. e. who owns a goodly chunk of the media not showing

the death and destruction, would lose with the rest of the war machine a lot of power and money.....the face of evil

[spanone]

10. They've only just begun....hold on to your hat.

[realFedUp]

18. holding our hats will be easy...it's money and lives....

I'm concerned about.

[crazyzoeillinois]

20. I agree but.......

Where were we in 04 getting this message out? Not working hard enough.

[Dark]

23. Yea. What's new? n/t