FOX DEM DEBATE ROUND 4

[gristy]

[imax2268]

1. You know Faux is going to...

play up on the disruptions instead of what the candidates had to say...!

[Samuraimad]

55. what a stupid question

who is the broad....? Fucking bullshit snow job.

[TSIAS]

2. OMG

Williams asked if what was going on with the 9 Dem candidates was "hate speech".

[Atlant]

9. Juan is there specifically to make Dems look bad.

Unfortunately, Al Shrapton keeps kicking his ass from one of
the stage to the other.

Atlant

[spooky3]

50. AGREE!!! And the others are not intimidated either.

[tedoll78]

3. I'll bet that..

we could see a Democratic boycott of Fox because of this. At least in terms of our candidates' appearances.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. More bullshit questions

Forget how it was phrased, but it was some putrid question about how the Dems are just spewing hate talk against Bush. Gag!

[imax2268]

5. What do you all think of Sharpton...?

and did you see when Dean went after this guy asking questions now...?

That guy couldn't look Dean in the face...!
Ass...!

[dean4america]

10. sharpton

i could see him heading up the Civil Rights Commision or something like that. His voice is well needed.

[Merlin]

If he weren't a black man, he'd be a leading candidate.

He has tremendous presence, eloquence, and quickness of thought.

[Plaid Adder]

111. Well, look, why make these assumptions?

I'm serious now.

Arnold is a contender in California. Anything can happen.

I think sometimes we're all just scared of what would happen if we lived in a world where a guy like Sharpton COULD become the frontrunner. Because it would certainly change a lot of things, and we might not like them all, liberals though we are.

I think it would do the party a lot of good to start taking Sharpton and Moseley-Braun more seriously. Yes, you would lose a lot of white voters if you ran an African-American candidate. What about the African-American votes you would gain? I'm not talking about the ones who are already voting Democrat, I'm talking about the ones who are so disgusted with the process that they never vote at all.

Our party needs a bigger base. Sharpton could help us build one. We oughta at least consider the possibility.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[matcom]

6. did you REALLY think FAUX would have a "FAIR" debate???????????

not even CLOSE

you don't think Murdoch HIRED those disruptors??

think i am PARANOID????

YOU BET YOUR FUCKING ASS!!!

:tinfoilhat:

[imax2268]

11. I'm beginning to think so...

the moderator didn't ask for anything or say to the security to do something to stop the disruptions...Sharpton had to stand up and say something...!

[Astarho]

12. Of course

it throws off their answers and it makes them look like they are drawing a crowd of whackos.

[robbedvoter]

16. Invited audience - only debate with problems - mebbe...

[Khephra]

19. I don't care...I think it's great. It's going to keep them on their toes

I think this may end up getting more people to tune into the next one. I know that you'd have been upset if you'd missed seeing this live after seeing all these comments.

Politics has always had an element of theater...it gets people's attention. Fox knows that. The Democrats just need to know how to talk about tonight's events with the proper spin.

[matcom]

26. Its NOT great Scott, its a fucking CIRCUS

and THAT isnt' good.

not at all.

this is a fucking SHAM!

WHY oh WHY did FAUX get this gig? WHY didn't this happen during the last debates?

i report, YOU decide

[Khephra]

65. I could come up with 20 different ways to spin this to any democratic

candidate's advantage. Odds are the Dean people will know how to use tonight's events to his advantage. Sharpton is going to get a hell of a lot of good press out of this.

For example: I'd blame the disruptions squarely on Faux, and tie it into the theme of Republicans being willing to do anything to win.

That only took me a second to come up with that. Any campaign manager who can't use tonight to attack the Right and look great in the process isn't worth the money they're getting paid.

[spooky3]

71. good point

[matcom]

problem is sheeple won't buy it

or listen
or care
or get past the sound bites

listen to Rush tomorrow (if you can DARE to stomach it)

bet you $100 he profiles THAT part of the debate over anything else

its a ploy

[Khephra]

103. The people who listen to Rush don't vote for Democrats

In what's left of the real press enough of the true story will get out.

And do you think the Black Caucus is going to sit back and not do anything about tonight's disruptions? It's not the Democrats who are holding this debate--it's FAUX. The Democrats have no blame about the circus that's happened tonight.

Let Faux and Rush say what they want. They would have lied and made something up anyway. :shrug:

There's a lot of people who aren't even aware of the candidates. This farce may just make people start paying attention.

[Rose Siding]

22. Sharpton's mad at Fox

IMO. He said, If you guys can't handle the security, my team (named specifically but I missed it) will. And he asked if this happens at repub debates. Fox got the circus they wanted.

(Dean has handled it well, but he wasn't one of the ones interupted)

[TSIAS]

7. This is awful

Williams has some condescending question about the PATRIOT Act.

[RichV]

8. Juan Williams

Jeez. This guy really, really sucks.

Asked why 69% of Americans think Patriot Act good or doesn't go far enough. Didn't mention exact same percentage think Saddam and 9/11 linked. Coincidence?

[UTUSN]

15. KERRY Gets the 87Billion Question

"properly going to the U.N. - ceding some authority, humanitarian, security "

[David Zephyr]

18. And Fox Helped Create The MisInformation!

Juan Williams is playing up to Roger Ailes.

[huckleberry]

23. Carol didn't answer the question

she should've said what do you expect from a media that doesn't tell the whole truth and suckers up to bush? Instead she explained the Patriot Act.

[Kool Kitty]

75. Juan Williams is a fucking idiot.

This is a set-up, with purposely misleading questions, an invited audience full of disruptors, that smirking POS Brit Hume. They aren't doing a thing to get rid of the disruptors. The only reason it stopped was that Al yelled at them. It's up to the moderator to get security to stop them. You're right-the same 69% that feel the Patriot Act doesn't go far enough are the same people that believe that Hussein was linked to 9-11. The only ones they poll are the ones that watch FAUX.

[kaitykaity]

13. Good WinAmp link anywhere for this???

:grr::grr::grr:

None of my fricking audio players will work on
the WAMU site.

[Atlant]

14. Kerry just went for a laugh but got a groan...

"The President got his economic development plan (the $87B);
I'm just sorry it's in Baghdad."

[dean4america]

17. kerry...

not coming out of this well at all.

[UTUSN]

20. Now, Now -- There WAS a Laugh n/t

[Atlant]

24. "A laugh"? As in "a singular laugh"? (NT)

[Woodstock]

38. I think they liked what he said

it was his delivery that was the problem

[RevolutionStartsNow]

21. Dean gets a question about jobs

No problem...

[dean4america]

25. handled the well.

point by point by point.

and brought up affirmative-action.

well said. well said. well said.

[DemNoir]

30. Doing very well

Deans best debate performance by far!

[spooky3]

28. Dean squarely behind affirmative action

[Woodstock]

29. Dean is doing really well

So say I.

[Sean Reynolds]

33. So says I too.

[Atlant]

34. I agree (NT)

[FubarFly]

37. Agreed.

The best debate I've seen from him so far. The biased format and questions got his attention.

[UTUSN]

35. LIEB on Race - Another Disruptor

waxing historical sweep. "My first act of service with MLK"

[gristy]

27. Dean comes out in favor of affirmative action in hiring

[dean4america]

31. well, yes

he's always been behind it.

[gristy]

46. Well, ok then.

I hadn't heard it. Should have phrased my comment differently.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

32. And got big applause

He coughed or something during his response, wasn't terribly forceful, but the affirmative action support got a big applause.

[spooky3]

45. Lieberman did the right thing to talk over a

disruptor. The rest of them must do this too--they have the mikes; they should use them.

[Renew Deal]

36. Someone yelling some crap.

[sham]

39. LIEberman sounds like Shrub

trying to read a speech and tripping over his words.

SHUT UP ALREADY!

[Rose Siding]

47. I'm a little embarrassed for him

He just about lost it. He's so done.

[UTUSN]

51. GEP: Has new writers, "Like father like son, 4 yrs & he's DONE"

[ShaneGR]

40. Lieberman actually had a good response

I thought he was going to have a heart attack but he came off as not that bad for about 20 seconds.

[Woodstock]

41. LIEberman, you are a phony

I see right through you!

[Starpass]

42. So--again you are telling me every sucks except Dean and Dennis

right...I bet they are all just standing there in awe and are tongue tied. Why is Fox giving Dean all this time..........just asking (they never, never have an angle or an agenda, do they??). too bad we don't have some balanced coverage on here tonight.

[Woodstock]

53. I think they've all sounded good except LIEberman

My 2 cents.

[Sean Reynolds]

54. Edwards, Braun, Sharpton doing well too.

Gep is too heated, saying the same stuff as last time. Kerry is boring, Lieberman is a joke.

[dean4america]

64. DK - not-for-profit health care?

WTF? Did he just say that AGAIN?

[Uzybone]

58. Please dont mind them

Sharpton, Kerry and Gephardt have also impressed. This Dean/Dennis monopoly is just silly.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

Oh, b.s.

Dean spoke only once in the first 10 minutes.

Edwards, though, is seemingly being ignored. CMB isn't getting a lot either.

[Atlant]

59. Lieberman sucks. Most others are doing fine. (NT)

[Atlant]

63. (I guess *EVERYBODY* liked Gep's line! :-) ) (NT)

[sham]

60. "all this time"?

looks to me like they're all getting equal time....

[Orangepeel]

120. people here are commenting on Dean and Dennis because that's who notice

They're actually not getting any more time.

Dean did well (except he whiffed the "favorite song" question -- answered it honestly instead of politcally). CMB did a kick-ass job. Edwards looked good. Graham actually had some fire to him. Sharpton is always a hoot.

[dean4america]

43. Lieberman...

is full of shit. Plain and simple.

[RichV]

44. Joe raising his voice

Guess he's trying to show some passion. What did he say would define his presidency?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

48. Oh, shit, Joe

trying to pull it out by saying he will continue to walk with MLK in spirit...UGH! They cheered but hope they aren't buying it.

[sham]

49. Gep: like father like son

4 years and he's done.

[Atlant]

52. Gep: "Like Father, like Son: Four years and you're *DONE*!" (NT)

[TSIAS]

56. Gephardt

"Like Father Like Son. In Four Years they he's done".

[gristy]

57. "Like father like son. Four years and he's done"

Who is that? Edwards?

[TSIAS]

61. Gephardt

[RevolutionStartsNow]

62. Gep

He's got a new slogan-writer, apparently.

[Woodstock]

68. He does sound better lately

If so, he needs to give the man/woman a raise.

[Jackhammer Jesus]

66. DK on drugs

"Drug sentencing is discriminatory, drug laws are too harsh"

Wants health care system with treatment for drug abusers.

"No manditory minimum sentences. Rehabilitation over incarceration."

[Woodstock]

72. Amen to that

.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

67. Kucinich

did great on the drug question.

[Plaid Adder]

69. Not watching, and have never been fitted for a tinfoil hat, but...

...if you ask me, it is much more likely that whatever disruptions are going on right now were organized by Fox as part of the show than it is that the LaRouche Democrats managed to pull this off all by their lonesome.

First of all, you don't let the general public into your TV studio. Second, this is what they have security for. At every other presidential debate I've ever seen on a REAL network, they lay out the ground rules for audience behavior at the beginning and presumably if someone flagrantly violated them, that person would be 'asked' to leave.

From the description, it sounds as if Fox approached this debate the same way Jerry Springer's producers approach the day's show. Planting people in the audience (or on stage) in order to generate conflict is totally par for the course on talk and 'reality' shows these days. It's exactly the kind of thing that I imagine Fox's people have a lot of experience doing.

If it's this frequent and this sustained and the moderator hasn't apologized for the interruptions, or had these people hauled out during a commercial break, then I think it's pretty clear this is all happening at the behest, or at the very least iwth the consent, of the management.

Which, in a world that was still rational, would reflect a great deal worse of FOX than it does on the candidates. I mean this is just pathetic.

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

[spooky3]

76. the disruptors are being hauled off but they

were allowed to shout too long. Despite this the candidates are doing great.

[Woodstock]

78. I know people who found it very difficult to get tickets

to this debate

so why was it so easy for the nuts to get in?

maybe some tickets were given to students/the LaRouches bought them off of them???

[gristy]

80. Last dem debate on FOX, ever

reflect a great deal worse of FOX

[Plaid Adder]

92. Well seriously. Talk about unprofessional.

Nothing could possibly say "this network is run by a bunch of clowns" like a performance like the one being described here. I know we bust on the media all the time but I would imagine most of htem still at least imagine that they have *some* standards.

Yeesh,

The Plaid Adder

[GBD4]

70. Graham

let's allow foreigners to be Presidents

[UTUSN]

74. Final Round - Any question to any candidate

[dean4america]

79. wonder who they will sandbag?

Dean on civil unions?

Favorite song? WTF?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

73. Why did they ask that question about who can run for Pres?

Does it have something to do with Arnold? Jeez.

[Atlant]

77. Ahnold: That's what I immediately assumed. (NT)

[Atlant]

Favorite song. Yes, we're on Fox. Doh!!! (NT)

[UTUSN]

84. Uh, oh - SHARPTON Compares DUKAKIS to??????

Said that if DUKAKIS had gotten as much of the Black vote as MONDALE, he would have won. Could it POSSIBLY be a reference to DEAN?

[Cush]

81. whats your favorite song?

yeah, whatever

[RevolutionStartsNow]

82. Favorite Song!!

[dean4america]

85. DK - Imagine; Dean, a Wyclef Jean song

.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

86. Graham got a big cheer for Jimmy Buffett

Dean said Wyclef Jean.

[Terwilliger]

89. DK: Lennon: Imagine as a theme for America!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[SweetZombieJesus]

Dennis is making me swoon

Especially since Howard had to pick a flakey Wyclef song ;-)

[Astarho]

125. To me, Dean's choice

felt like pandering. Jaspora is sung completely in Kreyol (which I don't think Dean speaks)

[sham]

83. Sharpton has talked a lot about reforming the Party tonight

I've really liked what he's had to say.

[spooky3]

Graham got the biggest cheer with

"changes in attitudes, changes in latitudes"

[Atlant]

A lot of Parrotheads in the audience, I guess. :-) (NT)

[sham]

87. favorite song...

this is effing pathetic. America doesn't care, you Faux assholes!

[UTUSN]

WILLIAMS the Big Question to Members of Congress (only)

How will you vote on Shrub's current request. KERRY/GRAHAM, "only what is needed to protect troops." DK: "NO".

Follow-up: We're all willing to protect our troops, what about (more specific)

[MidwestMomma]

97. It was a dumb question....but I thought the answers were good

And showed that they can all think on their feet.

[Atlant]

88. Juan's last chance to screw 'em: $87B: YES or NO? (NT)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

90. Joe just said send more American troops!

LOL! Not any applause.

[Woodstock]

95. Does he want a draft???

And how on earth will there be enough troops if something comes up elsewhere in the world and they are needed?

Just like the neocons, he wants to diss the UN.

[Atlant]

108. Good golly -- Kerry fumbled the ball again!!! (NT)

[Woodstock]

91. LIEberman attacks in the final round!!!

WHAT AN ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rooktoven]

93. The troops-- Jesus can Joe be more of a schmuck?

he can't resist can he?

[dean4america]

96. Bob Graham "No, hell no!"

great answer.

[Rooktoven]

102. Bob Graham is impressive on the Iraq bullshit

consistently the most blunt and informed on the issue-- notice Joe won't touch Graham...

[Woodstock]

117. Graham is cool.

Gained respect for him, too.

[TSIAS]

94. Joe

Lieberman went after Edwards, Kerry, and Dean. Criticized them for not advocating sending more troops to Iraq.

[Atlant]

101. That's our Joe!

Kucinich took him on.

[dean4america]

104. Joe's political career is over

he's a schmuk - it's over Joe, go home.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

106. Ha, Joe was cut off

thank god.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

98. They're not answering....

Except DK!

[jburton]

99. Graham "no, hell no!"

[Cush]

100. Graham

Yes to protect the troops, hell no to protect profits

[Rowdyboy]

107. No, Hell no!

Thank you, Bob Graham! :toast:

[UTUSN]

109. GORDON Going After KERRY Again

[Jawja]

114. I applaud

Dennis Kucinich for having the guts to answer "no" on the $87,000,000,000 appropriation for an "unjust war."

Lieberman sux. He is advocating sending MORE American troops! Notice how the crowd is lukewarm toward him?

[Renew Deal]

105. Kerry is asleep at the wheel.

[Sean Reynolds]

113. Huh, where am I? Repeat the question?

;-)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

121. Not at the end

He answered clearly that he would vote No if he doesn't hear what he wants from the Pres. Good job. But maybe his only good moment in the debate.

[sham]

110. someone chloroform this guy!

LIEberman suggesting that others are only saying they won't send more troops because it's the popular thing to say.

[Atlant]

116. Joe's the Republicans' favorite ad-writer! (NT)

[dean4america]

123. someone should show...

this asshole pictures of the death and horro in Iraq right now. (NOTE: Asshole is in reference to Joe).

DK is right, in theory, that the best way to protect troops is to get them out of Iraq, not by sending more US troops. That said, Dean's position is the best they have on Iraq. Glad Kerry said he would vote NO if he had to.

[Woodstock]

112. Gaining respect for Gephardt here

Oh no, here comes ASSHOLE LIEberman.

WHERE IS HE GOING TO GET THESE TROOPS FROM???

WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG IN KOREA???

WHO IS LEFT???

WHAT ABOUT HOMELAND SECURITY???

HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS???

He'd do anything to marginalize the UN, just like the neocons.

[UTUSN]

122. Closing Statements

M-B: "Whether we came on the Mayflower or a slave ship, through Ellis Island or across the Rio Grande -------we're all in the same boat now."

[SweetZombieJesus]

115. Ok, the pity dried up and I'm back to hating Lieberman

Jesus, what an asshole. What fucking world do you live in Joe?

[sham]

118. CMB

determined to take the "men only" sign off the WH door."

[kaitykaity]

119. locking go here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=308354

[Tinoire]

124. Kucinich- NO for the 87Billion US OUT / UN IN

and anything else is supporting the rotten corruption that got us into this unjust war. (rotten corrpution = my words, can't remember how DK put it)

GO DENNIS!

Imagine all the people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[sham]

126. I bet they give LIEberman the last word...

Sharpton talking about FL, TX, CA redistricting/recalls. We will fight back. Unlike Schwarz., I never had a stuntman do my hard work.

Edwards: this election is about what kind of America we want to be. take power out of the handful of insiders running our country and give it back to the people.