Ward Churchill is on CSPAN now

[seemslikeadream]

n/t

[xxqqqzme]

1. oh gawd, I turned it on the wrong

CSPAN and got the tex-ass roach-man - whew could hit the recall button fast enough.

[0007]

7. Me too!

[Simeon Salus]

2. good catch!

Thanks. Whether or not he's a whacko, he deserves to be heard in his own words.

[rodeodance]

3. yes, he does.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Whacko?

Listen to this man speak in his own words. He's citing history and reality and drawing strong, direct conclusions. If that's whacko, we're really in trouble.

This is a man I'd welcome to teach my children!

[rodeodance]

5. he makes a lot of sense when you listen to him. I heard him a few days

ago and I can see why he is controversal. NOT wacko.

[AG78]

8. Wacko is one of those words

that no longer means anything. The same way freedom, liberty, and democracy are just ambiguous at this point. Humanity is a train wreck, we're all nuts. I don't know what wacko is anymore.

[KharmaTrain]

30. Whacko = Codeword

It's one of the right wing's favorite demonizing terms...paint someone as a "whacko" and then begin the destruction of the person's personality and credibilty.

When Howard Dean screams...he's a Whacko. When Richard Clarke exposes this regime knew the dangers of 9/11 and did nothing...he's a whacko. And, of course, it's always a Hannity or someone on the right who does the labeling...that is then aped across the media. Honesty and truth don't stand a chance.

To the post about Churchill's views being extreme. I see his points and think he goes a bit over the top in some of his verbage, but how else does one get noticed in this age where the squeakiest wheel is the only one heard?

My book is open to this man...as until a week ago, I had no idea who Ward Churchill was, and I won't play online pundit and instant critic on his views or work without a closer look. From the reports and this C-SPAN program, I admire the man for standing up in a college setting. If there's gonna be an end to the madness in Iraq, it's gonna have to come from college campuses...and then from the balot boxes. Seeing the energy Churchill is generating in that crowd is one of the most encouraging things I've seen in quite some time.

[MADem]

10. Sorry, I have listened to him, and I think

...he is an inarticulate IDIOT. The way he framed his initial diatribe, he blamed everyone in the WTC for their deaths. I don't think the Guatemalan dishwashers in WOTW were Eichmann's for the Machine. I just don't. Then, after claiming he wouldn't back down ONE INCH, he said he didn't count the 'wage slaves' in his assessment.

Well, here's the deal--most of the people who croaked WERE wage slaves. There were some six figure wage slaves in the bunch, and there were plenty of secretaries, receptionists, phone answerers, and so forth, as well, but they were all subservient to the bigwigs, most of whom don't show up in the office, if they do at all, until after ten.

I found his remarks dispicable, I think he is a nitwit, and he could use a haircut, too.

That said, he has his first amendment rights, as do I. I'm not looking for his head on a plate, but put me in the column that says he's a lame, disorganized guy who is looking for fifteen minutes of fame. Have at it!

[Pow_Wow]

14. "and he could use a haircut, too" ?

sorry I can't get past that to evaluate the rest of your post.
you lost me......

[MADem]

27. My personal opinion

I do think that presentation is part of the package.

[Pow_Wow]

35. and I guess

I would have to say my personal opinion is that comments like that taint my ability to take anything else the person says seriously.

[MADem]

39. Whatever n/t

[RoyGBiv]

17. Read his books ...

It will help you understand the basis of his remarks, which are anything but idiotic. They're not mainstream, i.e. they are weird to many of us. As I'm sure you know, all of us tend to view alien ideas as idiotic.

Reading his books will also correct your apparant ignorance of why his views are as they are. He's been thinking and thus writing and speaking this way for a long time now. However, now, now that those views touch a little too close to current events and cannot be viewed through the lens of an ancient past, another time for which other people are ultimately responsible, that's when he is attacked more directly for what he says. Historians are often allowed more latitude in expressing controversial opinions because they are not see as directly attacking the current establishment. (Often they are in fact doing this indirectly, but the establishment can more easily ignore it.) Churchill has directly attacked the current system, and the people who operate and are benefited by that system are threatened, not because he's a "whacko" or "idiotic," but because his words speak too much truth.

He views the world, in particular the United States' place in the world, through a perspective with which many in this country are uncomfortable. I personally find it refreshing and useful to getting at the heart of issues, which in themselves are often quite uncomfortable.

[MADem]

34. I could not get past the Eichmann remarks

As a college professor, whose task it is to impart ideas, it is my belief that he failed, and failed miserably. Then, he backtracked, exempting the janitors, waiters and dishwashers, while claiming not to budge one inch. He suffers from an inability to articulate himself clearly. This could be due to his anger at the state of our country right now. But it doesn't excuse his remarks. Those people were not Eichmanns, they were US citizens who were working in a large office building in NYC, that was hit by two aircraft on a fine September day. They were DOD personnel working in the Pentagon. They were schmucks going on plane rides to see loved ones, take vacations, whatever.

If he has a problem with the government, he should go ahead and state his case. But blaming those who were unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is just sick, IMHO.

Your views may differ. I thought his remarks were stupid, insensitive, poorly structured, and I don't care to be associated with his viewpoint in any way, shape, or form.

That's my take, I don't expect or demand that anyone change their point of view to suit me.

[RoyGBiv]

46. Fair enough, but here's the thing ...

For the sake of argument, let's just say you're right and that he's failed to articulate his message effectively by going too far. Does that make the sum total of his message or him personally idiotic?

If you say "yes," then ask yourself if you have ever personally failed to convey an idea the way you intended and thus failed in the context of your use of that word to accomplish your goal. If you say you have not failed, I'd answer that by suggesting you're not being honest with yourself. We all fail, every day.

So, again for the sake of argument, we know that he failed by his use of one word. Now, deconstruct what has happened in the fallout of his use or misue of the one word. In my vew, the clearest interpretation of these events is that, as I said earlier, his message struck a little too close to some absolute truths that directly threaten the current power structure, who were incessantly searching for any tidbit they could use against him. They found one, which is the base cause of us agreeing the use of the one word was an instance of him failing.

Again, fair enough, but *our* job, as fellow travelers in the struggle against the powers-that-be in this nation/world is not to allow the opposition to define the message behind the use/misuse of one word. We may also not like how he said what he said, but other than that, did what he said make any sense?

No longer agreeing for the sake of argument, I say his message does make sense, that it speaks an enormouse number of truths, and that, perhaps, he chose his metaphor poorly. But I've read his books and many of his essays and other articles, and I know that he often uses strong language intentionally in order to force people to take note of what he is saying, in effect to start the debate. A dry, safe scholar will report his facts and construct his or her analysis in such a way so that the fewest number of people possible will be offended; it's a marketing decision mostly. They may be widely read, but they will not be influential in the cause of creating the kind of debate that changes things. Provocative is the key word. Churchill is provocative, sometimes to extremes. He is intentionally controversial to these extremes because he is struggling to start a dialogue, which no amount of dry recitating of facts has succeeding in generating.

That's the threat, the dialogue itself. The administration has been put on the defensive in order to end it before it gets started, and their tactic is to focus on the word word and leave us with the impression Churchill is an idiot. When we buy into that, we do the administration's work. I intend that not as an insult of any variety, rather as an observation.

As a member of the audience said, I disagree with much of what Churchill says and the way he says it. However, I also understand its purpose, and I fully agree with the message behind the individual words.

[MADem]

54. He just doesn't represent me

I do not go for hate speech from the right or the left. I don't believe that we need to descend to the level of the opposition, to deny basic humanity, to convey a point. I just can't get behind this guy, and I would hope for a better, more compelling, less hateful spokesperson from our team to articulate the concerns you raised.

But everyone has a right to their viewpoint, and I certainly do not begrudge people theirs, even when they diss me for mine (and I am not talking about you, FWIW).

In this regard, I can't overlook his overt lack of humanity in discussing a hideous event in our history that reverberates to this day. I'd be false to myself if I gave him a pass, when I will not give those on the right a pass for some of their brutal remarks. When we have to get ugly and bloody and go for the low blow to convey a point, we become what they are. And we give them ammo, to boot.

JMHO.

[RoyGBiv]

68. I can live with that ...

One of the points behind my point is that we don't always have to agree, either on details or all the elements that go into the big picture. If I were to engage in a critique of some of Churchill's scholarship, which I will not do here because it is irrelevant, I'd find much to criticize. I think, as you do, that denying anyone (and I do mean anyone) basic humanity simply makes us a mirror image of the opposition, and I do not want to be and refuse to be a mirror image of something I see as so incredibly vile.

But, for my part, I think I understand Churchill and his perspective and so do not begrudge him is opinion or even the way he expresses it. I think I know what he's up to, in other words. And, I think that due to the depths to which the current power structure has entrenched itself into our culture, him or someone like him may be needed to jump start the fading heart that is the opposition. We'll not all follow this person, but we'll owe him some degree of credit for getting people stirred up enough to give a damn.

It's all about the dialog and getting it started.

As a related aside, realize also that at the same time "they" are going after Ward Churchill, they're going after Bill Moyers for making similar types of comments. Depending on your perspective, Moyers' words were far less inflammatory -- the word that's the focus of his supposed idiocy is "delusional" in reference to a subset of Christians -- but the rhetoric and the basic goal of shutting him up and ending the dialog before it begins is the same. That tells me something. It's not just what Churchill said or how he said it. It's what other people might say, and more dangerously do, as well.

[Vladimir]

21. Six figure wage slave? My heart bleeds... n/t

[MADem]

26. Whatever

If it was your spouse, your child, your parent, your heart would bleed.

[Vladimir]

28. For her wage? I doubt that very much... n/t

[seemslikeadream]

63. Colonialism in America

1890s U.S. government began an aggressive campaign to "civilize" Indian people by rounding up Indian children and sending them away to boarding schools. The first step in "civilizing" the children was to cut their hair and burn their clothes and replace them with "civilian" or Euro-American style of dress. The children were forbidden to speak their Native language subject to severe punishment if they violated this rule. These boarding schools were a breeding ground for disease, and many Indian children died while at the schools.
1904 Geronimo exhibited along with other Native peoples at the St. Louis World's Fair
1910 After the suppression of the Ghost Dance religion, a number of Plains tribes began to revive the traditional Sun Dance.


1924 Citizenship Act Passed. Declared all Native American U.S. citizens, entitling Native people to the right to vote in national elections. Out of concern over conditions in Indian country, John Collier persuaded John D. Rockefeller to finance a team of social scientists headed by John Meriam to investigate. Their more than 800 page report stated that Indians were living in deplorable conditions of stark poverty, ill-health, and malnourishment. The report criticized allotment policy and recommended that Congress increase funding to improve Indian health and education and encourage the development of Native American art.
1934 Indian Reorganization Act encourages Native Americans to "recover" their cultural heritage. It allows the teaching of art in government Indian schools and ends allotment policy. In order to take advantage of funding under the IRA, tribes are required to adopt a U.S. style constitution. While many tribes do adopt a constitution, many other tribes including the Navajo refuse to do so.


1930s BIA began allowing Indian children to attend day schools closer to home. In addition, the BIA began to allocate funding to reservation day schools for the teaching of tribal languages.
1950s "Termination Policy" involved settling all federal obligations to a tribe, withdrawing federal support (e.g., health services, education) and closing the reservation. Frequently, tribal members were then relocated to urban areas. Eventually, Congress would terminate services to over 60 tribes including Klamaths, Paiutes, Menominees, Poncas and Catawbas. By 1990, more than 50% of Indians lived in urban areas.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=1924+Citizenship+Act+Passed.+Declared+all+Native+American+U.S.+citizens%2C+entitling+Native+people&btnG=Search

[seemslikeadream]

64. TRAIL OF TEARS

1831-2 Trail of Tears. In two key cases, Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831) and Worcester v. Georgia (1832), the Supreme Court upheld the right of the Cherokee to stay on their lands. President Andrew Jackson ignored the court's opinion and sent federal troops to forcibly remove the Cherokee and other Civilized Tribes. The Cherokee were removed in 1838 during harsh winter conditions resulting in significant hardship and loss of life; the Cherokee remember this time as the "Trail of Tears."
1832 Black Hawk's War Black Hawk (1767-1838), also called Makataimeshekiakiak, was the leader of the Thunder clan of the Sauk Indians in Illinois. In an effort to halt the settlers' westward expansion, he sided with the British against the Americans in the War of 1812. When he led his tribe back to settle their disputed homeland in Illinois, two Sauks were shot by a body of Illinois volunteers. This led Black Hawk's War in 1832, a guerrilla conflict waged against the Americans. The war ended the same year in the The Battle of Bad Axe, with Sauk warriors trapped by land and water. Finally, left with only a few warriors, Black Hawk, dressed in white deerskin, turned himself in. Though a prisoner, he was immensely popular, and in 1833 was presented to President Andrew Jackson. Jackson allegedly felt so threatened by Black Hawk's popularity that he released the chief and sent back to the West.



1835-42 The Second Seminole War When Jackson became President, he set about moving the Seminoles out of Florida, leading to the second War between Seminoles and United States. When Seminoles refused to cede their land and were giving refuge to runaway slaves, slave owners and plantation farmers demanded immediate retribution. The American army committed several atrocities, including hunting Indians with bloodhounds, and the capture of the Seminole warrior Osceola while under a flag of truce. It was the most fierce and costly war in America's history up to that time.
1841 The Oregon Trail was a vital passage to the Pacific Northwest Territory. The first wagon train set out on the long trail across the plains and through the Rocky Mountains in 1841; by 1845 more than five thousand pioneers had made the journey.


1848 Gold is discovered at Sutter's Mill, California. The subsequent "Gold Rush" and Euro-American settlement in California results in a drop in California Indian population from about 120,000 in 1850 to fewer than 20,000 by 1880. Gold miners changed the environment so much that Indians could no longer pursue their traditional means of procuring food. Indians raided mining camps for food and miners retaliated. Indians caused such problems for miners, that by 1851 the governor of California condoned a policy of extermination against California Indians.
1848 Purchases the territory which become the states of California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado from Mexico for $5,000,000.


1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie: The U.S. and several Plains tribes including the Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho enter into the Treaty. The purpose of the Treaty was to force the Indians to agree to allow Euro-Americans to pass through their territory on their way to the far west, i.e., California, Washington, and Oregon. In exchange, the U.S. government agreed to respect tribal boundaries.


1851 The Navajo considered the site of Fort Defiance to be sacred and thus the fort as an invasion of their territory. A pattern of violent confrontations between the U.S. and the Navajo begins.


1851 The Minnesota Santee Sioux had their lives uprooted when they ceded their land to the U.S. government in 1851. For eleven years, they were entirely dependent on white merchants and government annuities. When the annual payment failed to arrive in 1862, the Santee rioted that August.


1854 The Brule Sioux were especially hostile to the whites who came to Wyoming, and their attacks on white settlers led to war against the U.S. Army, led by General William S. Harney. The conflict started in 1854, after a band of Brules killed an emigrant's cow.


1855 In 1855, Governor Issac Ingalls Stephens, accompanied by translator and artist Gustavus Sohon, convened a meeting with all the tribes of the Upper Columbia River in order to sign land treaties with them.


1860-1864 Tensions between the Navajo Indians and American military forces in the New Mexico Territory resulted in the Navajo War. During a final standoff at Canyon de Chelly, fears of starvation and harsh winter conditions forced the Navajo to surrender to Kit Carson and his troops in January 1864. Carson ordered the destruction of their property and organized the Long Walk of the Navajo to the Bosque Redondo, a reservation already occupied by Mescalero Apaches on the Pecos River.


1861 Civil War Begins. Many tribes including the Five Civilized Tribes (now living in Oklahoma Territory) side with the Confederacy which promises in return for Indian support to respect Indian sovereignty. After the end of the War, the U.S. government punishes the Five Civilized Tribes by forcing the Tribes to cede land.


1864 Sand Creek Massacre. Cheyenne and Arapaho were awaiting surrender terms when attacked; more than 120 people killed--mostly women and children.


1866 "The Battle of One Hundred Slain" In retaliation for the Sand Creek Massacre and other atrocities, Plains tribes banded together and declared war on the United States.


1866-68 Red Cloud leads the successful fight to close off the Bozeman Trail, a pass leading to the gold mines of Montana. The trail crosses over the traditional hunting grounds of the Teton.


1867 Treaty of Medicine Lodge. The largest treaty-making gathering in U.S. history, between U.S. and the Cheyenne and Arapaho Nations; results in the removal of the two tribes to a reservation in Indian Territory. Their reservation is created out of lands taken from the Five Civilized Tribes who had been forced to give them up because of their support for the South during the Civil War. Crow, Comanche, Kiowa, Sioux, Apache and dozens of other tribes were represented.


1868 Sioux Indians sign a treaty guaranteeing their rights to the Black Hills of Dakota. Later that year, the U.S. Army led by George Armstrong Custer slaughters an unarmed gathering of Cheyenne encamped at the Washita River--again killing mostly women and children.


The agreement offered the Union Pacific Railroad the right of way through the Green River Valley in exchange for Indian reservation land


1868 Lieutenant-Colonel George Custer fought the so-called Battle of the Washita in November 1868. This raid on Cheyenne Chief Black kettle's camp on Oklahoma was in retaliation for Cheyenne raids on Kansas settlements the previous month. It was part of a massive military campaign to contain all Indians who refused to stay within their newly assigned reservations.


1873-74 The "Buffalo War" A last desperate attempt by the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Comanche and Kiowa to save the few remaining buffalo herds from destruction by Euro-American hunters in Oklahoma and Texas.


1874 expedition led by Lt. Col. George A. Custer discovers gold in the Black Hills, sending a rush of prospectors to the area. The Sioux revolt.


1876 Battle of the Little Big Horn On June 25, Custer attacks a large hunting camp of Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho on the Little Big Horn River in Montana. Sitting Bull, Gall, Crazy Horse, and several Cheyenne leaders defeat Custer and the 7th Cavalry. General Custer and 250 soldiers are killed.


1877 After an impressive flight of more than 1,000 miles from their homeland in Oregon, the Nez Perce led by Chief Joseph finally surrender. The U.S. relocates the Nez Perce to Indian Territory, breaking its promise to allow them to return to their homeland.


1881 Helen Hunt Jackson's A Century of Dishonor published, detailing the plight of Native Americans and criticizing U.S. treatment of Indians.


1886 After more than two decades of armed conflict with the U.S. government, Geronimo and his band (including women and children) are sent by train to Florida and imprisoned at St. Augustine.


1887 During the 1880s, Euro-American reformers grew concerned that Indians were not improving themselves and becoming self-sufficient but were sinking into poverty and despair. The purpose of the Act was to force individual Indians to live on small family farms. Every Indian would receive 160 acres of land. Any land left over was sold. One goal of allotment was to destroy Indian "communalism," i.e., the practice of many families living together and sharing property. Tribes affected by allotment were those located in states where land was most sought after for farming by Euro-American settlers: North and South Dakota, Kansas, Minnesota and Wyoming. Within the first ten years of allotment, more than 80 million acres of Indian land were opened for Euro-American settlement.


1889 An act by the U.S. Congress in March 1889 splits the Great Sioux Reservation into six smaller reservations. Some of the tribes begin performing the Ghost Dance, a religious ceremony thoughtto extinguish the whites, return the buffalo, and the former way of life. South Dakota is admitted to the union in November.


1890 Wovoka, a Paiute prophet, defined a new religion combining Christian and Native elements. This religion was dubbed the "Ghost Dance" religion because its followers believed that practicing ritual dance would bring back dead loved ones (both human and animal) and restore the land to Native peoples. The Ghost Dance religion swept through the Great Plains quickly gaining a huge following from peoples devastated by disease, warfare, and Euro-American encroachment. Ghost dancers believed that clothing worn in the dance would make them invulnerable to bullets or other forms of attack. The U.S. government became increasingly anxious about the spread of the Ghost Dance religion because of the large number of Indians who came together to participate in the ceremony.


1890, December 29

Massacre at Wounded Knee Creek The Lakota Sioux held a ghost dance on the Pine Ridge Reservation. When an Indian Agent learned of the dance he requested that federal troops be sent to stop it. Armed troops opened fire on a band of Big Foot's band of Lakota people killing 200-250 men, women and children. The event is often described as the last major conflict between the U.S. Army and the Great Sioux Nation.


1894 U.S. Army imprisons hostile Hopi leaders on Alcatraz Island.

[seemslikeadream]

65. Coercive Assimilation, 1900s to 1960s

Throughout both their histories, the U.S. and Canadian governments have used their dealings with Native Americans to increase federal power. During removal and the Indian Wars, the U.S. government, especially the federal army, grew not only in manpower but also in bureaucracy. Provisioning federal troops, supplying them, and establishing the governing agencies for Native Americans increased the size and power of the national government. Similarly in Canada, the Indian Act and the numbered treaties created large governing agencies. Such bureaucracies—known eventually in the United States as the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and as the Department of Indian Affairs (later the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, or DIAND) in Canada—exerted powerful influences over the everyday lives of Native Americans, particularly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries

Beginning mainly in the 1880s in the United States and shortly thereafter in Canada, these government agencies instituted programs that aimed to reconfigure the fabric of Native American life. Known as the assimilation campaigns, these policies attempted to transform Native Americans into “citizens” by stripping them of their lands, cultures, languages, religions, and other markers of their ethnic identity. Assimilation brought continued challenges to Native Americans, many of whom had only recently been confined to reservations and reserves.

For many Native Americans, such cultural attacks were as painful and difficult as the previous generations of war. Native American communities lost their children, who were sent to U.S. boarding schools and Canadian residential schools where families were prohibited from visiting and children were punished for speaking their languages. Some Native American religious rituals, such as the Ghost Dance and Sun Dance, were outlawed. Native American men were forced to abandon previous forms of economic subsistence, such as buffalo hunting, for the distant hope of becoming farmers. Many communities were resettled onto reservation lands in the least desirable and fertile parts of their former territories. Everywhere, government control and surveillance of Native American life increased.
The bitter irony of so many of these coercive policies was that those who developed them believed they were acting in the best interests of Native Americans. Many of America’s leading religious leaders and progressive reformers helped lead this assault to “kill the Indian, but save the man.” Senator Henry Dawes, for example, sincerely believed that he was helping Native Americans when he sponsored the Dawes Severalty Act, or the General Allotment Act of 1887. That act divided Native American reservations, which were owned communally, into separate plots of land owned by individual tribal members. Supporters thought the act would “civilize” Native Americans by making them ranchers and farmers and instill individualism.

more
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570777_28/Native_Americans_of_North_America.html#endads

[Mystified]

48. It's okay to kill people as long as they're rich?

They weren't poor so you have no sympathy for the victims or their families? Interesting point of view.

[Vladimir]

50. I wasn't very clear, was I

I was commenting on their salary as regards to them being a wage slave, not a victim.

[Mystified]

60. No, you weren't lol

Sorry for the misunderstanding. However, there are many six-figure wage slaves, especially in the New York City area. If one has a family of 4 and makes $120,000 a year they aren't rich considering the cost of living in the area.

[PowerToThePeople]

72. My simile

The runner for Al Capone was just a wage slave too, but he still worked for an "evil" boss, so he was supporting evil and just as guilty. If you support evil, you are guilty imo. And, imo, ALL of us USA citizens are extremely guilty and if killed are more than deserving of it. Even ones that stand up against it, because we stand up against it within the evil system, thus supporting the evil while trying to change its ways..

[Simeon Salus]

15. He reminds me one of my favorite history teachers.

He certainly seems to have the popular support of the room.

The out-of-context phrase "little eichmanns" repeated in the media tends to start one off with a negative impression of the fellow.

I've not been following this case closely, and didn't intentionally disparage the man, but am happy about the chance to see this.

This is what democracy looks like.

[Simeon Salus]

29. I should add, a flame war over a neutral use of the word "whacko"

is what Democratic Underground too often looks like.

I was happy the first poster noticed CSPANs show. I thanked the poster. I stated my belief that he had a right to speak past "the filter."

And then someone erupts over the use of a buzzword. Or the spelling or grammar. Or some foolish thing.

Schoolyard stuff.

I object more strongly to the contemporary usage of "Jacko" than "whacko"

[G_j]

41. you can say whatever you like

that is fine with me, but "whacko" neutral?
:eyes:
Otherwise I felt no need to comment.

[CountAllVotes]

6. thank you Ward Churchill

for speaking the truth!

:loveya:

:kick:

[agitpropagent9]

38. ah yes, the ever-elusive truth...

so the truth to you is that more 9-11s are necessary? are you willing to sacrifice your loved ones and then smile while he calls them little eichmanns?

[Vladimir]

44. What Churchill said

was that more 9/11 are inevitable, not necessary, if the present foreign policies of the US continue. His 'Eichmann' comment is OTT but then so is saying 'We don't do body counts' in my opinion...

[agitpropagent9]

52. no.

he said "necessary". and he's sufficiently educated to speak the words he thinks.

[Vladimir]

53. Not in the essay he didn't

at least not the version I read: http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill.html

as for the broadcast, I dunno, since I haven't been listening to it.

[agitpropagent9]

55. sorry...

i should have included a link.

http://www.satyamag.com/apr04/churchill.html

What are some of the solutions? Extreme events, like 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, have mobilized people out of such complacency, albeit temporarily.

I don’t have a ready answer for that. One of the things I’ve suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary. This seems like such a no-brainer that I hate to frame it in terms of actual transformation of consciousness. ‘Hey those brown-skinned folks dying in the millions in order to maintain this way of life, they can wait forever for those who purport to be the opposition here to find some personally comfortable and pure manner of affecting the kind of transformation that brings not just lethal but genocidal processes to a halt.’ They have no obligation—moral, ethical, legal or otherwise—to sit on their thumbs while the opposition here dithers about doing anything to change the system. So it’s removing the sense of—and right to—impunity from the American opposition.

[Vladimir]

59. I think what he is saying,

and I may be being kind, is that it may take more 9/11 for us to realise what we have been doing to the 3rd world for the last who-knows-how-many centuries, not that more 9/11s are necessary per se.

The more I read his essay the more it strikes me that it takes a hell of a lot of anger to write something like that. He is basically quite incoherent throughout most of it. Thing is, I also remember the last time that I felt that angry - it was in the spring of '99 when the USAF was administering justice in my neck of the woods and I was watching my grandmother dying in inhumane pain of cancer because the hospital she was being operated in had been hit. So maybe the real lesson is that all that anger you undoubtedly felt after 9/11 (and I must admit I felt kind of numb too, but more out of sheer disbelief) - that is how a lot of the third world feels towards America 24/7. Me, I've gotten over it, since I have a cushy number at an English university and all the comforts that come with that now. If I was living in abject poverty in the middle of fuck-all, I doubt I would be quite as reasonable about it.

[CountAllVotes]

58. his truth about genocide and Indian history

very accurate information historically. I find him to be well read in many ways. I wish I'd had a teacher like him. He generates great energy no matter what anyone thinks.

[G_j]

9. excellent, thanks for the heads up

powerful speaker, hope people are listening!

[seemslikeadream]

11. From a Native Son: Conquest and Colonization in the Americas

Ward Churchill (Keetoowah Band Cherokee) is one of the most outspoken of Native American activists and scholars in North America and a leading analyst of indigenous issues. He is a Professor of Ethnic Studies and Coordinator of American Indian Studies at the University of Colorado. Churchill serves as Associate Director of the Center for Studies of Ethnicity and Race in America at the institution. He is also co-director of the Colorado chapter of the American Indian Movement and vice chair of the American Indian Anti-Defamation Council.

Churchill’s many books include Marxism and Native Americans, Fantasies of the Master Race, Struggle for the Land, On the Justice of Roosting Chickens, From A Native Son, Critical Issues in Native North America, The COINTELPRO Papers, Indians R Us?, Agents of Repression, Since Predator Came, and A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas.

In his lectures and numerous published works, Churchill explores the themes of genocide in the Americas, racism, historical and legal (re)interpretation of conquest and colonization, environmental destruction of Indian lands, government repression of political movements, literary and cinematic criticism, and indigenist alternatives to the status quo.

Churchill is also a past national spokesperson for the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee, has served as a delegate to the United Nations Working Group on Indigenous Populations (as a Justice/Rapporteur for the for the 1993 International People's Tribunal on the Rights of Indigenous Hawaiians), and as an advocate/prosecutor of the First Nations International Tribunal for the Chiefs of Ontario.

http://www.speakersandartists.org/People/WardChurchill.html

[sierrajim]

67. I was told that he is not a Native American

And then I was sent this article:

At various times, according to press reports, Churchill has described himself as Cherokee, Keetoowah Cherokee, Muskogee, Creek and most recently Meti.

In a note in the online magazine Socialism and Democracy he wrote, ''Although I'm best known by my colonial name, Ward Churchill, the name I prefer is Kenis, an Ojibwe name bestowed by my wife's uncle.''

In biographical blurbs, he is identified as an enrolled member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokees. But a senior member of the band with access to tribal enrollment records told Indian Country Today that Churchill is not listed. George Mauldin, tribal clerk in Tahlequah, Okla., told the Rocky Mountain News, ''He's not in the data base at all.''

[CountAllVotes]

73. just because Ward Churchill is not in the database does not mean sh*t

I should know! I'm not in their "database" either. That is because my grandfather (who was in the Trail of Tears) opted to say he was "white" rather than Cherokee/Choctaw to stay off of the Dawe's rolls. One cannot blame him for wanting to protect himself and his family, especially given the that the policy of the U.S. gov't towards the Indian people of our land was "extermination" prior to "assimilation". Do you have any idea how many Native Americans have been slaughtered? This slaughter goes on today in the form of poverty as Prof. Churchill points out in his lecture. This poverty is = genocide; Prof. Churchill is quite correct.

There is a lot more to what he says than his just his 9/11 essay.

:kick:

[RoyGBiv]

12. Love that guy ...

His books changed the way I approach studying history in general. The number of people about whom I can say that can be counted with less than a full set of fingers.

[Pastiche423]

13. He had to be brought down a peg...

because he speaks the ugly truth about our history and that is NOT allowed!

We desperately need more Ward Churchills teaching our children.

Thank you so much for the heads up!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. Oh Jeez!..

I just tuned in too! I should be working on a new project but..
My ancient warrior blood is raging! American Indians have incredibly accurate and beautiful ideals

IF THERE IS NO DIALOG, THERE IS WAR!

[Rapcw]

18. wow, this guy is a great speaker

and has obviously checked his facts.

[G_j]

19. Leonard Peltier Defense Commttee Statement on Churchill

LPDC Statement concerning recent attacks on Ward Churchill

THE ANTI-AIM TIDE IS RISING

All of us who surround those who were involved in AIM since the early
70's have known it was coming, or rather "they" would come for them
again. There is no shock in the recent campaign to discredit Ward
Churchill. Most of all, we are sure Mr. Churchill himself knew it was
coming sooner or later. We are sure Ward is at home asking himself
questions such as: why now, what will be gained by disabling me at this
time and how will this negatively affect the movement? Most of all,
like any good warrior, we hope he finds himself asking how he can make
this work for the movement's benefit. Mr. Churchill has co-authored
books which guaranteed he would be attacked by his favorite
organization, the FBI.

His contributions academically to the Indian movement, whether it be AIM
or a generation of like minded thinkers, has been vast. Without books
such as Agents of Repression: The FBI's Secret Wars Against the Black
Panther Party and the American Indian Movement and The COINTELPRO
Papers: Documents from the FBI's Secret War Against Dissent in the
United States our generation and those younger would not have a map by
which we can predict the government's response and how they will work to
stop Indians being outspoken. Simply put, we firmly believe that many of
AIM's figureheads are modern day Indian heroes. We cannot sit by and
watch our government continue to destroy Native Americans.

Mr. Churchill's writings are motivational in a way the government does
not appreciate. His writings are critical of the government. We
believe any educated Indian would have to agree with his works and
themes though not necessarily embrace every point. We believe we need
people such as Mr. Churchill who are not afraid to exercise their First
Amendment Right of Freedom of Speech. American Indians need to feel
free to speak.

Please note the newspaper reporters seem to forget how long ago Mr.
Churchill wrote the 9/11 piece. It is also important to note how the
mainstream press has totally misinterpreted
and misreported Mr. Churchill's statements and intent. We challenge
those who have not read Mr. Churchill to read what he has written and
draw their own conclusions and not be swayed by the propaganda being
spread by the mainstream media.

Our question is why all of a sudden is the press attacking Mr. Churchill
for issues which happened more than a year ago? This is not news, these
are old issues. We should all be asking ourselves why now. Our belief
is, that as we await the results of the John Graham extradition hearing,
the United States wishes to raise anti-AIM sentiments hoping to use the
John Graham extradition as a vehicle to attack people such as Ward
Churchill and Leonard Peltier.

We would like to remind the older generation of AIM of allegiance and
honor. Don't forget, years of knowing each other, and years of trying
to have Leonard Peltier freed means there is a spider web of
relationships which the government is clearly trying to unentangle and
frame Leonard as a patsy.

We are not saying Anna Mae does not deserve justice. We believe she was
a loyal AIM woman and she should be treated as such. We believe that
those involved in what happened to her owe her family answers, very
soon. We hope her family still believes as she did, in the cause and
rights of Indians. Please beware the government will use Anna Mae's
murder, 9/11 and anything else they find inflammatory right now to turn
the tide against AIM and against Leonard Peltier. Our phones are
tapped, of this we are sure, so the FBI clearly knows lately those at
the LPDC have made some great contacts internationally. We assure you
they want to turn the tide against Leonard and AIM right now, they must
undo all our work, they must keep us down. Remember these guys earn a
paycheck to suppress us, we have nothing but pocket lint because it is
our lives. But if we do not let the rising anti-AIM tide drown our
spirits we can still win. We say good luck Mr. Churchill. We
personally like the way you exercise your first amendment rights..

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe, send a blank message to [e-mail]

[toddaa]

25. "Those damn Indians"

Why don't they just get over being raped, pillaged, and plundered. Why can't they just move on from having there children taken from them and put into loving Christian indoctrination camps.

Fucking pagans

/sarcasm

[seemslikeadream]

20. Churchill remains defiant, defends views

BOULDER - University of Colorado Prof. Ward Churchill addressed a packed auditorium Tuesday evening, expounding on his views about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and taking some questions from the audience.

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=f3fcd191-0abe-421a-01bc-e9a296571d1f&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

[Pow_Wow]

24. "Churchill rant has some truth"

Churchill rant has some truth

By Reggie Rivers

February 04, 2005, Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,36~155~,00.html

It's easy to attack University of Colorado professor Ward
Churchill. He went too far in his essay "Some People Push
Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens." He made
overstatements, praised the Sept. 11 terrorists as noble
heroes and labeled their victims as criminals who deserved
what they got.

The essay is not a scholarly document. It's not subtle,
reasonable or balanced. In fact, Churchill states in the
addendum that it's more of a "stream-of-consciousness
interpretive reaction to the Sept. 11 counterattack than a
finished topic on the piece." I'd say that's a fair
assessment.

I can only assume that in a true scholarly work, Churchill
wouldn't describe former Secretary of State Madeleine
Albright as "a malignant toad" or "Jaba (sic) the Hutt." I
assume that he wouldn't call President Bush the "Scoundrel-
in-Chief," or refer to the FBI as "a carnival of clowns."

But while it's easy to attack Churchill's inflammatory words,
it's harder to deny the core argument of his essay. It is a
critique of U.S. policies around the globe, particularly the
12 years of sanctions in Iraq that former U.N. Assistant
Secretary General Denis Halladay denounced as "a systematic
program ... of deliberate genocide."

-more-

[seemslikeadream]

22. Ward Churchill Radical Professor Speaks to Thousands of Cheering Supporter

Churchill surrounded by supporters while speaking to a crowd of at least 2000 people.



Thousands attend Churchill speech
By Erin Gartner, Associated Press
February 8, 2005

A University of Colorado professor who ignited a firestorm by likening the World Trade Center victims to Nazis received a standing ovation Tuesday from a crowd of more than a thousand who packed a ballroom to hear him speak.

University officials had announced plans to cancel the speech because of security concerns then backed off after Ward Churchill filed a lawsuit earlier Tuesday asking a judge to force the school to let him speak.

More than two dozen campus police officers inside the ballroom used handheld metal detectors to scan attendees for weapons. It was not immediately clear if police found any.

Outside the ballroom, about 250 people who were turned away, listened to Churchill's speech on speakers set up by university officials.

The crowd was loud and orderly as an Churchill, whose writings and speeches face a 30-day university review that could lead to his dismissal, spoke: "I do not work for the taxpayers of the state of Colorado. I do not work for (Gov.) Bill Owens. I work for you," he said to thunderous applause.
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050208214150291

[RBHam]

23. The trouble with Ward Churchill...

I want to bring up the Ward Churchill case and point out the controversy's value to the Bush Crime Syndicate. Not only do they get to paint a left leaning intellectual as a supporter of anti-American terrorists, the Big Lie that the attack was soley planned and executed by Islamic Extremists is once again reinforced...

The truth is here:

UNRESTRICTED WARFARE

9/11 Treason

http://www.insider-magazine.com/unrestricted_warfare.htm

[Dehumanizer]

31. I'm not fond of his abrasive personality..

But I admire his intensity.

[Pow_Wow]

32. replay at 12:55 HIGHLY recommended! n/t

[seemslikeadream]

49. Thanks Pow_Wow

I'm going to watch it again

[G_j]

51. I taped it

but missed the beginning, so I'll be watching aagin.

I thought the energy of the whole affair was wonderful, including those who were upset with him. We need more of this!

[seemslikeadream]

56. you can watch it here also

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=f3fcd191-0abe-421a-01bc-e9a296571d1f&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf



BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE
Buffy Sainte-Marie
© Gypsy Boy Music-SOCAN

When people ask, "What happened to the North American Indians in the 1880s?", you can pretty much point to the robber barons of the time who needed to make a fortune in oil, gold and other precious metals. Simple greed in the hands of a powerful few who manipulated the media and politicians. When people ask, "What happened to the Indian movement of the sixties and seventies?", you can pretty much point to the same motives a hundred years later, with uranium added to the list in very big print.
The shocking information in this song is not new, but strung together; the events tell a story that most non-Indian people don't know. Dedicated to Leonard Peltier, the memory of Anna Mae Aquash and Joseph Stuntz.


Indian legislation on the desk of a do-right Congressman
Now, he don't know much about the issue
so he picks up the phone and he asks advice from the
Senator out in Indian country
A darling of the energy companies who are
ripping off what’s left of the reservations. Huh.


I learned a safety rule
I don’t know who to thank
Don't stand between the reservation and the
corporate bank
They send in federal tanks
It isn’t nice but it’s reality

chorus:
Bury my heart at Wounded Knee
Deep in the Earth
Cover me with pretty lies
bury my heart at Wounded Knee. Huh
They got these energy companies that want the land
and they’ve got churches by the dozen who want to
guide our hands
and sign Mother Earth over to pollution, war and
greed
Get rich... get rich quick.

We got the federal marshals
We got the covert spies
We got the liars by the fire
We got the FBIs
They lie in court and get nailed
and still Peltier goes off to jail

My girlfriend Annie Mae talked about uranium
Her head was filled with bullets and her body dumped
The FBI cut off her hands and told us she’d died of
exposure
Loo loo loo loo loo

We had the Goldrush Wars
Aw, didn’t we learn to crawl and still our history gets
written in a liar’s scrawl
They tell ‘ya “Honey, you can still be an Indian
d-d-down at the ‘Y’
on Saturday nights”

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee
Deep in the Earth
Cover me with pretty lies
Bury my heart at Wounded Knee. Huh!

http://www.creative-native.com/albums/coin.htm

[G_j]

57. thank you

& that is one of my favorite songs! Huh!

[Swamp Rat]

61. thanks for the link n/t

[seemslikeadream]

69. You're welcome Swamp Rat, got any crawfish left for me?

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

70. Nope. I ate 'em all... but they were small because it's still early in the

season. Want some gumbo? :)

[Vladimir]

62. Watching it now, thanks so much for the link n/t

[seemslikeadream]

33. Ward Churchill didn't say

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building" or this: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." That was the noted humanitarian Ann Coulter.

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "Covert action should not be confused with missionary work." That was Nobel Peace Laureate, Henry Kissinger

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country" or this: "Democracy has justified itself by keeping for the white race the best portions of the earth's surface." That was Mount Rushmore's own, Teddy Roosevelt.

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "The Antichrist is probably a Jew alive in Israel today," or this: "Communism was the brainchild of German-Jewish intellectuals," or this: "The Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." That was political power broker and God's best friend, Pat Robertson.

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty; we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." That was the very holy Randall Terry, founder of "Operation Rescue," speaking to a like-minded audience.

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "Racism isn't holding blacks back, it's their own laziness!" That was Bill Cosby (net worth: $540 million).
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=7204

[MADem]

36. Yeah, but she's a rightwing prostitute/talking head/shill for the Machine

Not a professor in an accredited university system.

You may as well compare him to Anna Nicole Smith--only problem being, she doesn't have a mean bone in her body.

[seemslikeadream]

40. Democracy has justified itself by keeping for the white race the best

Ward Churchill didn't say this: "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country" or this: "Democracy has justified itself by keeping for the white race the best portions of the earth's surface." That was Mount Rushmore's own, Teddy Roosevelt.

[MADem]

43. He's been dead for decades

And he was a product of his stupid, bigoted times. He hunted animals for fun, not for food. He was an ass. Isn't it nice that he wasn't frozen and brought back to debate with us today. He has nothing to do with anything, except for maybe the fact that when we look at his lunatic comments, we realize that we do make small, slow progress.

What does that have to do with calling Guatemalan dishwashers, or kids on a field trip in an airplane, Eichmanns?

I'd say the two of them are in the same category, and both have a bad case of foot-in-mouth-itis.

[G_j]

37. yes funny how

those other comments didn't get the attention that Churchill's have.

After watching this, I find myself thinking this controversy may have been a good thing. This is a taboo discussion that is long overdo.

[seemslikeadream]

47. I think so too G_j

[Tactical Progressive]

42. He probably cares more about the deaths of the people who died on 9/11

than any of the right-wingers that have been using 9/11 for their own ends. That may help put things in perspective.

I think people are having a hard time with the Eichmann construct. Eichmann is a metaphor for all Americans and the responsibility that each of us has for what has been done for our benefit, essentially in our names, throughout our history.

He is talking about the abrogation of societal responsibility in America.

[Karenina]

71. It's AMAZING to watch

as people REFUSE to comprehend the reference.

[KarenS]

45. ThankYou for your posting !!! I would not have known he was on

otherwise,,,,,

WOW!!! I like what he says AND I like his intensity!! I do understand why his anger & forcefulness might turn some off.

[pstans]

66. It's not about what he said, it is about being able to speak your mind

Personally, I do not agree with the remarks that Churchill said. I watched the thing on CSPAN because I feel that it is good to hear different oppinions. Then I realized that is exactly what Churchill is fighting for: the right for free speach. Without discussion, there is silence, and then we end up in a war in the middle east based on lies. It all goes hand in hand. If we aren't able to speak, no one can learn, and we all lose.