c-span caller: 'Liberals should stop making fun of religious people'

[mopaul]

I've heard that line from more than a few Christian conservatives, somebody is always mocking the pious and poking fun at t.v. preachers and anyone who openly confesses their religion.

Is it true, are we liberals making fun of the religious, or are they a bit too thin skinned? If we are not allowed to make fun of folks, for any reason, maybe we ain't in America anymore, but some nation ruled by tyrants.

[UL_Approved]

1. More asymmetric accusations

They feel it is just fine to pour the fiery gospel on our heads, but a simple question or criticism is not permitted in their eyes.

We need to stand up and tell these people that they are full of shit.

[annabanana]

4. asymmetric accusations

Good term...(lather, rinse, repeat!)

[Az]

2. Er which is it?

You seem to be saying two things. On the one hand you seem to be challenging the notion that the pious are targets of ridicule. But then you put forward the notion that its ok to ridicule people in a free society.

[papau]

37. LOL - Don't ask for either manners or logic from all non-pious at DU!

But I admire your attempt to convert to at least good manners the portion of the non-pious at DU that must flame fellow liberals!

I am afraid my conclusion after 4 years at DU is that for some folks the sight of the pious is just a hot button that they can not resist.

You're a better person than I AZ!

:thumbsup:

:toast:

:-)

[xchrom]

3. the religous are as corrupt as any other human being!

it's bullshit that they should be held as some fucking sacred cow!
because you worship on the one hand doesn't mean you aren't involved in corruption or just plain dangerous stupidity on the other.

btw -- as way of disclosure i am a christian.
i just hold onto a large grain of salt, as well.

[Bronco69]

5. How the hell can one NOT make fun of them when their leaders

stand in front of the camera with a squint in their eyes that makes them look constipated? They also say the most ridiculous bullshit to ever come out of the mouth of a human being. If they don't want to be made fun of, try acting like a senseable human for a change. They have no problem damning gays and lesbians, but as soon as someone points it out they scream persecution. Damn, those people make me want to :puke:

[BOSSHOG]

6. Liberals in this country are raising their voices

and protesting the attempts by right wing zealots to codify their religious beliefs. They want to replace the constitution with the bible. I and you say no fucking way. That's why the right wing morons think they are being persecuted. I poke em in the ass with the truth every chance I get. They do not appreciate the fact that they are free to believe and worship as they choose because of the constitution; however they are not free to force their beliefs on the rest of us law abiding, tax paying productive citizens.

[garthranzz]

7. Religious people don't have to declare their faith - they act on it

I am an orthodox Jew and quite liberal in many - but not - all ways. True religion must be more than skin-deep or robotically repeated platitudes. Action is the main thing.

There are seven universal laws - the Noahide commandments - which define a righteous human being who has a place in the World to Come. While two of them involve what would be considered religion, none of them require an open confession, verbal insistence on one's piety ("methinks they do protest too much) or coercion of others to conform or convert to one's own doctrine. The latter group are either hypocrites or ignorant.

The seven laws, by the way, are: Don't blaspheme, Don't worship idols (note that there is no directive on how one should worship G-d; determining that is up to the individual and his or her 'faith community'. These two simply require one not be arrogant (!), acknowledge and respect the Divine), Don't murder (which includes slander or verbal assassination), don't steal (deceit, lying), don't be sexually immoral, set up a court system (justice for all), and don't be cruel to animals (protect the environment).

How many of the so-called "religious right" follow them?

[LynnTheDem]

8. rightwingnuts should stop being such freepo-fascist idiotic moran dickhead

stupid ignorant little dipshits.

[MichaelHarris]

I only make fun of the one's who

buy loads of beanie-weenies, canned crap, and bullets because the end times is coming. Seriously, did they think Jeebus would come and want their beanie-weenies? Maybe the bullets were to protect their beanie-weenies from Jeebus. Would you shoot Jeebus over a can of beanie-weenies? Anyway I'm selling Y3K patches, I'm gonna make a fortune.

[deacon]

9. GW is stabbing America in the back as he waves the bible over his head

while doing so. These people need to wake up.

[jarab]

10. Don't poke fun at their religion "only" ....

And I know it's often difficult to separate politics from religion.
Just this week I have personally encountered four new (to me) fundamentalists (Pentecostals)- two brothers and a seventy-something husband/wife. I would have sworn they'd turn out to be Repugs; on further introductions, they were hard Democrats who espoused the "love and feed the poor" over single issues like abortion ... and they had nothing good - and a lot bad - to say about GWB.

I sure "judged" each of them wrongly, but I did approach them with some diplomacy, and hopefully didn't make an ass of myself by presuming the worse to be in them.

...O...

[Disturbed]

12. I do not believe in the bible fairy tales.

Although I do feel that Jesus has a great message I don't believe in the miracles, virgin birth, raising a person from the dead, walking on water, dying and ascending into heaven on and on. Old testament fairy tales by the hundreds, Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, the whale story. pillar of salt, David and Goliath, on and on. I don't believe in an interactive god. I am an Agnostic, not an athiest, hedging my views. I tend to feel that there is nothingness after one's earthly demise.

I resent in a BIG WAY that fundies are pushing their agenda onto me and millions of others. I will fight for my right not to believe in the BS.

If people have beliefs that's fine but I am not going to be bullied or cowed into bowing to those beliefs.

[jarab]

20. I note that you repeatedly stated ..

"I don't believe _____" ....
not - "I doubt ____".
Is that agnosticism or atheism?

Just a humble query from an anonymous poster on an insignificant message board - me.

(And I agree that no one should be bullied or cowed for any reason in or out of the realms of politics or religion.)

...O...

[bowens43]

11. I admit to making fun of those who reject science.

Particularly Young Earth Creationists. I also loudly and aggressively oppose fundamentalism. Christian fundamentalism is a far greater threat to our nation, our freedom and our Constitution then Al Qeada could ever be. If they have their way we will live in a theocracy and we will be watched over and ruled by the Ministry for the Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue. These are very dangerous people. Instead of making fun of them we need to be watching them very, very closely.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

13. There is no point to making fun of them

However there is a point to pointing out the threat they pose to the American way of life and that's what they don't like.

The practice of one's religion is one thing and certainly something I would not ridicule one for. Freedom of Religion is a guarantee of the Bill of Rights and a valid principle that is essential to freedom.

However those who attempt to alter our form of government to conform to their religious principles is a different story. It is not only my right but also my duty to point out the egregious nature and flaws of their religion and the threat they pose to our country.

The inescapable fact of the religious right is that the core of their philosophy is anti-intellectual, anti-progress, anti-freedom, anti-secular, anti-separation of church and state, and their America as a Christian nation is an out and out lie. I have no qualms nor feel any need for restraint to point these truths out at each and ever occasion that presents itself.

[mopaul]

14. benny hinn, creflo dollar, jerry, pat, swaggart, tammy baker

if you can't make fun of these people, or the occassional whacko t.v. loudmouth preacher, then it's christian censorship.

yet, some people equate making fun of them makes it an attack on jesus or something, quite the opposite.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

23. And there are always going to be people who make that claim

Particularly among evangelical Christians as they have a propensity for liking to see themselves as being persecuted anyway. To them it reaffirms that they are correct as Jesus tells them they will be persecuted for speaking out for their religion.

I just don't think making fun of them has any utility to it and in fact detracts from the more serious issue concerning them.

[Ganja Ninja]

15. It isn't as if they don't refer to us in the lowest of terms.

"Baby Killers, Perverts, Queers, Filthy Communists, Liberal Scum" are a few that come to mind. We can't make fun of them but it's ok for them to condemn us and accuse us of being traitors and destroying the family. We can't ridicule them but they can call us every nasty hateful name they can think of. Fuck them if they can't take a joke!

[PassingFair]

41. Yeah, and don't forget about their "rapture"

...where the rest of us will die horrible, agonizing deaths!
Now if THAT isn't hate speech, I don't know what is.
They want to see us in "the lake of fire"!
Time to call the hypocritical wackos out on this stuff.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Thin Skinned? How About Subservient?

Short of speaking in tongues to these whackos, I doubt there's any way these people won't feel "persecuted". Too bad they have no clue as to what that means.

They want to strut their crosses and conveluted invisible cloud-being into everyone's lives...and not just "a god"...their god.

[ck4829]

17. Why is it that they can call us Evil baby eaters?

It gets even worse if you are of another religion and openly profess it.

The Christian Right says Liberals are making fun of them, but what do they do to other people?

They make it a case to dehumanize them and say their beliefs are worthless.

Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, and even though the Christian Right doesn't openly admit it, they also hate Jews.

I'm a Muslim and I've heard the Christian Right basically call me everything from a Conspirator in an Vast Muslim Conspiracy to destroy America, I'm supposedly commanded by my religion to convert or kill everyone who doesn't believe like I do, and I'm abusive to any woman I know according to them.

The truth: I love America, I was born and raised here, and I want to save it from the RW'ers. I also believe God loves people of all religions and of course I also believe God loves the non-religious and so I do not support forced conversions of any kind. The reason as to why I converted to Islam is because of a woman who I am practically a slave to and I love her very much.

[Az]

19. Mind if I stand along side you in defense of America?

Me being an atheist and all. I will gladdly stand by any person of belief that rallies around the ideas of tolerance and freedom of thought and belief. For when they defend their right to believe as they wish they defend my rights as well.

[ck4829]

21. Thanks. We all need to unite if we truly want to save America.

It is sad when the Christian Right are the ones saying that they want to save America from us. But, it is they who are pushing the legislation that will destroy our Constitution such as the Constitution 'Restoration' Act of 2004.

[youthere]

18. It just proves they don't get it...

I will always ridicule and criticize religious people. I will never ridicule or criticize spiritual people. Religious people put dogma before faith. Spiritual people scare the hell out of religious people.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

22. then religious people should stop attacking cartoon characters

and looking stupid; stop providing the ammo

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. and great ammo it is!

Anyone who thinks Tinkie Winkie, Barney, Spongebob, and Buster the Bunny are gay (supported gay issues), deserve to be made fun of. What do they expect?

[mopaul]

27. they believe it's a sin to make fun of them

and I've never heard Jesus jokes until fairly recently, when I was growing up, NOBODY ever made fun of Jesus, in private or on the t.v. machine, but now, it's fairly common. And I think Jesus would approve, and certainly never said it was a sin to have a sense of humor.

but I've lost mine here lately

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Well...Christian right-wingers should stop making fun of...well, everybody

that's different than they are.

[Skidmore]

26. Actually, they aren't making fun of people who are different than

them. They are looking down on them and discounting them as fellow humans. Being smugly assured of your place in heaven in the afterlife is all the justification one needs for mouthing the right code words and performing the essential rituals. What you do in between inconsequential--even if it breaks all the rules.

[mopaul]

29. i'll enjoy watching your sufferings in hell from my lofty cloudy perch

how much more can you dismiss someone utterly? sure, sure whatever but you're going to suffer for eternity while I will be eternally rewarded. damn you, in other words. how snobby can you get?

[Skidmore]

32. Mopaul, I think you misunderstood what I was saying in

my post. What I had intended was commentary on a mindset which I've seen over and over again in practitioners of some denominations of Christianity. Heck, I've seen the same mindset in practitioners of subgroups of other monotheistic belief systems. It is a sanctimonious, self-absorbed worldview that does not tolerate others concerns or beliefs. Liberals are now on the receiving end of this intolerance.

I hope you were being sarcastic--I know I was. Perhaps I should have clearly labelled my comments as such.

[mopaul]

33. I might have been being a smart ass,

i'm not real sure anymore, i certainly didn't disagree with your post though. irony, and satire and sarcasm are concepts that have lost all meaning to me under the monkey administration.

[toddaa]

28. Christian Supremists

They will always have an enemy. Secular humanists, communists, atheists, liberals, feminists, Jews, Buddhists, pagans, whatever. As long as there is one last person on the earth who is not a Christian, they're rights are being violated.

[CornField]

30. I use to make fun of them. Now I've met their challenge and declared war

on them.

I have no problem with people being religious and worshipping as they see fit. I have no problem with people raising their children in their own faith.

In my eyes, the problem is when another person's faith begins to trample on my own --- when faith begins to interject itself in public governmental policy.

When you hear of a religious group doing something you consider unusual/funny/sick/whatever in the name of their diety, it is easy to shake your head and go on with life. What is a nation to do, however, when that same religious group seeks to place their own religious rites as law?

[Az]

31. The trick they learned

Ours is predominantly a Post Modern Society. That is we tend to embrace all voices in the process of determining moral values that govern our society. The idea is to avoid assigning one voice more access than another. All have equal say in the matter. None is right and none are wrong.

The Fundamentalists have learned to turn this to their advantage. They have issues with other people. They believe them to be evil and corrupt. Now on initial glance this would seem to go against the ideas of Post Modern Society. But they use the tenents of tolerenace and equal say to turn the process on its head.

When we criticize them for attacking others they claim we are attacking their beliefs. As we are supposed to welcome all voices to the process this catches us up short.

The trouble Post Modern thinking has is it cannot advocate what is progress. It is a faith based position that all in the community will want to move forward in an enlightened and reasoned way. But when met with a strong resistance and active propogation of resistance it finds itself neutered. It cannot counter the effects of such an attack as there is no right way it can advocate because of its own tenents.

[mopaul]

35. as a group, they are not immune to ridicule

though they believe they should be untouched by ridicule or even gentle fun poking. any group can be ridiculed, the masons, the knights of columbus, the elks, moose, eagles and odd fellows are commonly laughed at.

but don't laugh at little old church ladies and those who prey on them. you'll be damned or something, or you're blaspheming, therefore subject to punishment, god's or theirs.

[Q]

34. Liberals have become this nation's scapegoat...

...like the Jews were for Hitler's Germany, 'colored people' in the early part of last century and 'witches' in the puritan colonies.

[mopaul]

36. also homosexuals, and muslim americans, and many others

until you just get to feeling that you are in fact, the super race.
feels good to feel fat and happy and on top....

i've heard some of 'them' revealing what they'd do to us if given free reign.

[DrRang]

38. It's a SET UP

These guys like Dobson or Don Wildmon deliberately say something so blindingly stupid that the media will sooner or later give in to the temptation to mock them. Whoa! Then the letters go out to all the faithful about how the evil liberal media is attacking good Christianists and those donations just pour in.

[noonwitch]

39. Ned Flanders is an example of gentle-teasing, not mean taunting

Ned Flanders is a character that bothers some fundies. Yet it is very clear on "The Simpsons" that Ned is a very good man, who tries to love his fellow man (even Homer), and loves his kids. Yes, the show picks fun at the conradictions in the Bible sometimes, and the dogma of those who are hypocritical, but I don't think the show insults religion. One of my favorite episodes is the one in which Rev. Lovejoy is losing his faith. He rediscovers it having to save Ned from the chimps at the zoo. It's hilarious, but not mean.

The same show makes fun of pretty much everyone of every religion or political persuasion, so it is equal opportunity.

[LoZoccolo]

40. Should conservatives stop making fun of gay people?

As you say, if we are not allowed to make fun of folks, for any reason, maybe we ain't in America anymore, but some nation ruled by tyrants!

:eyes:

[Roland99]

42. Carlin: Keep Thy Religion To Thyself

that's all that needs to be said.

[CBGLuthier]

43. They do have a small point.

As much as I hate to admit it I have to agree that it would be nice if some of the left woudln't waste time belittling the beliefs of others.

If you don't think that some liberals make too much fun of religion then you haven't read enough threads on DU.

Just this week alone we had people pissed at being told to have a "blessed day" and another where someone was "sickened" by the sight of a giant cross.

[leesa]

44. OK. As soon as they stop their irrational hatred of anyone who is not

them, I will stop making fun of them.