Plame, Gannon & The New American Revolution

[H2O Man]

The NYT reports that Reps. John Conyers and Louise Slaughter have sent a letter to Patrick "the Bulldog" Fitzgerald, regarding White House operative "Gannon." See:

http://www.nytimes.com/200502/11/politics/11gannon.html

It reminds this old timer of January 1973, when the newly re-elected Richard Nixon's popularity was at an all-time high. He was announcing plans for his "New American Revolution," in which he intended to: {1} consolidate the power of the executive branch, including bringing unlimited power into the White House; {2} to cut social programs in such a way as to take political power from the upper-middle "professional" class; {3} manipulate the media to project an image that was false, at best; and {4} to change the way the federal government operated.

There was, however, a scandal brewing close to the surface of the national consciosness. While a segment of Americans were aware of the Watergate issue(s) before the election, it had not become the issue the democrats had expected.

Many in the democratic left were demoralized by the recent election. They had lost faith in the ability of the citizens to recognize a crook in office. They were disgusted by Nixon's bizarre manipulation of the violence in Vietnam to suit his political purposes.

But Nixon had crossed the wrong people. Way too many people, in fact. First, the Watergate issue festered; some of Nixon's top advisors were stripped away. Then in a surgical strike still unappreciated, VP Agnew was taken down.

It's happening, folks!

[H2O Man]

1. hmmm

I see that link is not bringing up the article; I got it from google news/plame.

[rodeodance]

149. GannonGate does not seem to the 'gate'--

[Cooley Hurd]

2. MSM is ignoring the Plame angle...

How does someone using a fake name and working for a fake news organization get access to something as highly confidential as a CIA operatives roster?

When a nuke lands on US soil from a country who received their nuclear know-how from AQ Khan, we'll know WHO TO BLAME!:grr::grr::grr:

On edit: the link didn't work for me...

[NewJeffCT]

13. To most in the MSM Plame is only about 1 thing

And, that is Fitzgerald and his supposed overzealousness in getting reporters to reveal their sources. The outing of Plame is only mentioned in passing.

[autorank]

87. CM (corporate media) hits Gannon->Fitzgerald investigates->

->Oh me, oh my, the Vice President was involved, why he must go->So we need someone that everybody really likes (e.g. Powell)->And now what do we have! Oh me, oh my, * is a big crook, must go.

It's called the Washington two-step! First you nail the VP, replace him with a 'fine fellow', and it's time for psycho-prez to go with all of ua safe and sound.

God, I love this country.

[ClintonTyree]

3. Gawd...I hope you're correct.

I touched on the Watergate comparison yesterday in a post as well. It does seem hauntingly familiar, doesn't it?

It's going to be MUCH harder this time though with a Media that is already in the pocket of the White House, so we must be even MORE vigilant and unwavering in our fight for the truth.

But hell, I'm not doing anything special for the next few years. I'm ready! Let's bring these criminals DOWN!

[H2O Man]

9. "History doesn't repeat;

it rhymes." I can't recall who said that .... might have been Twain. But this series of connected scandals (Plame/neocon spy/yellow cake document forgeries) will cripple the administration, and soon.

Perhaps for a fun exercise, we could list the "rhymes."

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. I think this is why Kerry

let them steal the election again. He knew that if he got out of the way of the coming train wreck, it would all come crashing down around them much sooner.

[NewJeffCT]

15. I hope you're right

This is much worse than Watergate & I hope that prediction of the American Conservative editor that endorsed Kerry comes true... he feared another 4 years of Bush because of Iraq and the burgeoning deficit, saying that 4 more years of Bush BS and it could discredit conservatives for generations. We can only hope he was right.

[seventythree]

93. why do you think propagannongate

is worse than Watergate? curious? Bush may be more evil than Nixon, but the scandal hasn't come close to the constitutional proportions of the show down over the tapes -- that brought us to the very brink -- within hours -- of becoming a dictatorship. {I think we are at least days, here:)} If the President does not comply with the Supreme Court, that's it, we just flipped it because the Supreme Court has no enforcement power -- the whole shebang rides on our faith in the system, and it all crumbles if the President defies the Supreme Court.

[H2O Man]

103. The current "news"

about this curious fellow is significant not because of his sex life or that he writes for some odd little non-existent media source. It's that he was part of the effort to destroy Wilson & Plame. The exact extent that he was part of this is not fully known at this time, but suffice to say, few odd & curious non-journalists are given access to highly sensitive documents that refer to those in CI who work at the most secret level .... and Valerie Plame did.

I want to say something briefly about the sexual part of the story .... I've called this fellow David Ferrie, Jr for good reason. He does resemble poor David. More, like David, he is reported to have a sex life that is the stuff of gossip. But it distracts the public from focusing on what he actually does/did. I'm not usually a betting man, but I'd bet that if the truth be known, this David Ferrie, Jr will be found to be connected to the VP's intel operation; I'll wager that he was considered a resource when the VP's office was planning to destroy Wilson in the months of March to July, before he wrote his article for the NYT. Those familiar with the case will recall that period, and we'll have to review it for those not familiar.

The whole of Watergate -- and the many layers of related criminal behavior, much we know of, much we likely don't -- was EXACTLY what you say: an effort to create an imperial presidency. Far too few people remember that in Jan '73, Nixon announced plans to consolidate the executive power -- not only to reduce greatly the legislative power, and to control the judicial by appointment and a suggested "review" (true!!) -- but even within the executive, Nixon planned to pull ALL the power away from the State Dept, and to put it ALL within the White House.

You obviously remember this .... but I think many people have forgotten the full significance of Watergate .... and as the memory fades, we may lose the ability to properly compare it to today's White House. And when we compare that terrible time in American history to the Plame/neocon spy scandal/ yellow cake doument forgeries, we find that we are in much the same state of affairs .... one need only think of the FORGERIES ..... there were people involved in creating forged documents to "prove" that Iraq had attempted to buy the materials for WMDs from Niger, and were furious that Wilson exposed the documents as forged! Now, I'll bet you've already figured out where I'm going next: part of the activities of those infamous "plumbers" was to forge documents to indicated that JFK approved of the coup in Vietnam that occured one month before Dallas.

So, in both cases, just that "little" example of forged documents to fool the American public about the true nature of American involvement in a foreign war, seems to show that we are dealing with a criminal administration with the same MO as the Nixon administration.

[Me.]

113. Why Is It Always Republicans That Want To Be Emperors?

Is it the breakfast cereal they eat or is it the influence of the Bliderbergs and Tri-Laterals? A quest for world domination that goes back to William the Conqueror. The world is no stranger to the quest for power by those who would rule the world. But why in this country does it always seem to be the thugs. If you look back to the 20's Harding - Hoover, fascism was happening then. The WH was thrown open to corporate and business influences. Anyone who tried to fight those interests, like unions, were called anarchists, today we're called "conspiracy theorists" or worse yet, in their eyes, "liberal".


You're quite right about the implications and facts of Watergate needing to be dusted off and reviewed. There are many, many facts being filled in on this thread that point to what is happening now as being the continuation of a long term plan, with the part now having been recast with the reprobate in the monkey palace. And what this history lesson says to me is that it isn't enough, at this point in time, to merely expose the scandals and bring the corrupter's admin to his knees.

There has been talk about an activist group being formed. That's an excellent idea, but I think the agenda should have sweep to it. It will not be good enough to get rid of the current infestation, the nest must also be rooted out and destroyed. Else wise, those that can, will crawl back into the woodwork, as they did after Watergate, only to appear again in another decade.

Once the dominoes begin to fall, the delivery of truth to the nation must be so fulsome that no one in families like the *ushes, are allowed near our government again, or potentially we could face the spectre of someone like George H. W. (?) running for president. These people plan with the long run in mind and this time so should we.

[H2O Man]

123. A safe bet:

those who resort to illegal and immoral tactics to steal "power" will likely not give up that power easily. It takes a large dose of legal and moral force to take it back.

[AmBlue]

62. And with so many of us out of work...

we've got time on our hands!! And intend to use it wisely.

[Ladyhawk]

146. Good point. Once my neck is fixed, I'll be back with a vengeance!

Beware the wrath of...

|_ /\ |) `/ |-| /\ \/\/ |<

[CroixRoussienne]

4. Dupe n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

5. Welcome to DU, Croix...

There's no such thing as a dupe in GD...:hi:

[CroixRoussienne]

11. Thanks for the welcome, Cooley!

I duplicated H2O's recognition of the faulty link. Not enough posts to email him.

I follow the Plame threads assiduously...I was riveted to the screen during Watergate, back when I was in high school, and this certainly has the same aroma.

[H2O Man]

10. I'm old, senile,

in a wheel chair, recovering from yet another automobile accident, and I tend to stutter in the morning. People just ignore that. (smile) I think by the middle of the day, we may find that this thread goes in an entirely different direction than the first that pointed out the article in the NYT.

[merh]

53. You don't stutter when you write, my friend!

;-) After reading your posts and debating you in the past, I know you are not senile. :P

I share your suspicions that soon a gallon of RoundUp will be poured on the weed's administration causing him and his weedettes to wither and die. They may think they can rewrite history and why not, other administrations have tried to do the same thing, but as we know, the truth always catches up with them.

:hi:

[H2O Man]

60. It has gotten interesting

hasn't it? I'm looking forward to investing a bit more energy on this thread in 24 hours .... I'm way behind on preparing a presentation for tomorrow. Some things never change!

I look forward, as always, to reading your thoughts on the ongoing issues involved in the Plame case.

[diamond14]

80. the scandal could EXPLODE anywhere....so many scandals, so little time

as another old-timer, bush* scandals certainly are nixonian....bush* entire cabinet already has JUMPED SHIP, rats jumping off the bush* sinking ship....


nixon has MANY MUCH BIGGER SCANDALS than Watergate...his own reTHUGlican party threw him out...offered him the option of pleading guilty to something rather petty, in return for KEEPING his retirement, Secret Service detail, pResidential Library funding, etc....the arrogant bastard NEVER said he was sorry, even all the people around him went to JAIL....

even John Mitchell, the U.S. Attorney General of the United States went to a FEDERAL PENITENTARY....hahahaha....


bush* crooks will collapse from their own arrogance, imploding from within their own ranks.....with nixon, as soon as ONE went to prison, everybody else lined up to FINGER everybody around them....just like street criminals...they all blamed each other, cut deals with the prosecutors, and squealed on their colleagues...it was nasty, and bushites will really put on a show for the 'family values' Christian crowd.....

ha
I'm always 15 year younger than OLD....no matter what age I am...

[H2O Man]

82. While I enjoyed

your entire post, the second paragraph is by far the most important .... and needs to be read and understood by everyone who is interested in Watergate and how it relates to today.

[diamond14]

91. oops...forgot to add...part of the nixonian deal was that FORD

would pardon him as soon as the dust settled....gawwddd, and for a while there, we had an APPOINTED president AND an APPOINTED vice-president NO ELECTIONS AT ALL (when nelson rockefeller power-grabbed the appointment VP slot, at that time, nelson was a private citizen, not in any elected position at all....and later "he CAME and he WENT" during sex with his girlfriend in his own hotel, pissing off his dear wife 'Happy' in another "Family-Value" reTHUGlican fling)....


THAT ford-pardon for nixon was all set up AHEAD OF THE RESIGNATION....so in the end...nixon stayed OUT OF PRISON, lived out his years in rather nice presidential splendor, giving speeches, writing, appearing for navy ship dedications and other military stuff, traveling internationally, THINKING at Washington DC STINK-tanks...full secret service coverage, security, full presidential retirement benefits, congressional funding for his libary hosted by the American Taxpayers....while most of his staff went to PRISON....


I was ALWAYS rather shocked that the American public didn't just ostracize nixon, but some reTHUGlicans thought the nixon was just a victim, and they honored him much like the reaguns crap....

remember, near the end of the nixon presidency with VIETNAM blowing up daily in the background, and nixon got on National TV, real drunk, slurring his words, garbling...and the Nation was SHOCKED...nixon's drinking problem had been hidden so well by his staff...shame on them...

[H2O Man]

104. You are right.

I find myself nodding my head in agreement when I read your post. There are so many "little" factors that are too often overlooked in studies of Watergate. I am convinced that the more people detail it, as you are doing here, the more others less familiar will recognize the territory we are wandering through today. We need not be lost in the wilderness -- you are helping to put together the roadmap we need.

In Oudes' book of Nixon's secret memos, it is sad indeed to note that almost without exception, on the nights that he wrote numerous letters that showed he was losing control of his thought processes, he always ended with pathetic memos about wine. He fancied himself an expert in the field, and was knocking back significant amounts of the good drink. I think that in the later days, he reportedly was drinking stronger stuff .... and I suspect that a man who could not control his thoughts with some wine, was likely a sad specimen when the whiskey too hold.

On Rockefeller .... just a funny thing .... one of my uncles, who was a legendary investigatory in the 1960s and early '7o's .... served as his head of security when Rockefeller was governor and beyond. I can remember my uncle telling my father some stories about the governor's behaviors. I'll also always remember when old Nelson was in nearby Binghamton, NY, and gave the bird to some student protestors.

[nashville_brook]

133. i am obsessed with these human details -- the drinking problem

i think, is also being covered-up with this "presidency."

[diamond14]

142. here's a GOOD overview of nixon, and his own downfall (link/PHOTOS)

EVERYTHING in America was VERY VERY dark under nixon, but we pulled out of it...at least for a while....NOW, it's very important that we all FIGHT AGAIN, to take back OUR country, this time, from mostly the same players, the bushites regurgitated....


http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/watergate/



nixon leaves DC, after resigning, in the presidential helicopter (use of OUR helicopter was ILLEGAL)

So everyone pretty much knew Nixon was a mean, crazy fuck. Unfortunately, this intellectual understanding didn't translate itself into a visceral experience until Watergate erupted onto the front pages, by which time it was too late.

In 1969, Nixon rode into office with the resounding approval of what he called the "Silent Majority," so named because it possibly didn't actually exist. He inherited the Vietnam War, among other things, and busied himself attempting to end the war "with honor" using a "secret plan" which was later shockingly discovered also to not have existed.




Secretary of State during the Vietnam War under Richard M. Nixon. Who else but Kissinger could win a Nobel Peace Prize for the secret (and illegal) bombing of Cambodia?
Helped Augusto Pinochet orchestrate the overthrow of Chile's democratically elected President Allende. He personally assured Pinochet that his human rights violations were not a problem for the United States. He did this knowing that Pinochet had set up an international network to assassinate his enemies.

Cyprus, Vietnam, Cambodia, the Middle East, Angola, China, and the SALT negotiations. Alexander Haig.

After Nixon was brought down by Watergate, Kissinger remained as Secretary of State under Gerald Ford.

George W Bush tried to post Kissinger as the lead for the World Trade Center investigation. The appointment did not even last a week before it became necessary for him to step down because of conflicts of interest. Kissinger is now useless as a statesman or envoy for even the most benign tasks of State, thanks to his now all-too-apparent monied interests.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Corrected link here

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/11/politics/11gannon.html

Reg or bugmenot :) may be required....

[H2O Man]

8. Thank you! nt

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Juicy quote from the NYT piece....

Mr. Guckert was denied credentials to cover Capitol Hill, where press gallery workers said that his application indicated Talon was not his main source of income and that they could not verify its legitimacy.

Karl Frisch, a spokesman for Ms. Slaughter, said: "This is a guy who could not get credentialed by the House or the Senate press galleries, and yet managed to get into the White House and question the president" and have access to a top-secret document.

He added: "To imply he has no connection to the White House is just not credible."

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. So what the hell is Guckert's main source of income?

Military male escorts and porn sites?

[NewJeffCT]

16. well

If you're pimping military men out to power brokers in Washington, it could be pretty damn lucrative, I think. ;=)

[Enraged_Ape]

102. "Hey, big strong American! Twenty dollar! Me show you good time!"

It adds up after a while.

[i miss america]

138. Karl Rove would be my guess

[CTyankee]

17. I, too, am old enough to recall Watergate

just as you described it, with dispirited liberals grieving their loss of the presidential election. However, I think I am correct in saying that the difference between now and then is that in 1972 we Dems had control of at least one federal legislative body, I think it was the Senate. Plus, there were such people as liberal republicans in those days. It is going to be nearly impossible for us to get an investigative committee the likes of the Senate Watergate Committee. Much as I'd like to fantasize that we could have a blogging version of Woodstein, I can't see that getting very far.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. This trial will be

in the court of public opinion and on the internet this time. Screw Congress.

[H2O Man]

23. Fitzgerald's investigation

will force the House to begin proceedings. It's a shame that the House doesn't do what the Constitution requires it to do .... in the way of investigations of the executive branch. But, again, if we look at the House (in)actions during the same stage of the Watergate investigations, we find that things are pretty much the same today.

[Occulus]

34. Would this Gannon connection be the thing that was said to have

"(taken) the case in an unexpected direction"?

I do believe that's a direct quote from somebody, but it was a while ago that it was said. I Googled a while and couldn't find it, so maybe I'm imagining things. In any case, I think I remember reading this at around the time that Gannon started asking questions in the press corps, or shortly after he started. I wonder- perhaps he caught someone's attention?

[H2O Man]

37. The quote you use

is correct; it comes from the judge who ruled miller has to testify. I do not believe that this is what was being referenced. This fellow was part of the plot to distort/cover-up what had happened, at very least. He may well be part of the plot from within the WH from early March when they were deciding to "discredit" Wilson if he exposed them.

[H2O Man]

20. Huge difference.

You make a very important point: in fact, the democrats had gained control of both the House and Senate. But what is equally important, at least in this senile old man's mind, is that the democratic party was far more split and divided than it is now. Unknown to many was the fact that LBJ had not only refused to support McGovern, but had actually organized democratic support for Nixon. It is one of the many things that makes LBJ difficult to like as a person, even though his political ability was fascinating, and his Great Society was well-intended.

The democrats in the congress were not what brought Nixon down. It was a combination of forces, which included: {1} moderate republicans; {2} intelligence operatives including one who had a cover working for a high profile newspaper; {3} the far-left of the democratic and other anti-war social activists; and {4} the far-right, that knew the removal of Nixon would create a void that would by 1980 allow them to gain full control of the federal government. The far-right made sure to remove Agnew in the short period between Dean turning against Nixon, and the shit hitting the fan, in order to clear the way. (They did not, of course, anticipate Jimmy Carter; the far-right was confident Ted Kennedy would be a one-term president, and that by 1980, Reagan would easily beat him in a national election.)

It is interesting to examine the people that Nixon surrounded himself with; many that he was sure would protect him ended up saving their own hides. The next level, which did not protect him, would become the foundation of the Reagan administration.

[Me.]

22. And Isn't Interesting How Many Of the Same Names

Are the same ones doing their best to destroy our nation today?

"It is interesting to examine the people that Nixon surrounded himself with; many that he was sure would protect him ended up saving their own hides. The next level, which did not protect him, would become the foundation of the Reagan administration."

[H2O Man]

38. Yes.

There are people who were active in the Goldwater campaign, who would play significant roles in the Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1 and now Bush 2 administrations.

As some on here know, I was associated with the defense committe on the Rubin Carter case. Because it stretched out for so long, it often became confusing to explain to people who was involved & what role they played. Eventually, one lady from Canada came up with the idea of a flow chart, literally, to show how certain people kept popping up with different stories to fit the needs of the prosecution. It would be great to make a neocon-extremist chart, with the Watergate crooks, the Iran-Contra criminals, and the Plame traitors.

[seventythree]

94. that chart would be great!

we used to have one for the Illinois republican crooks. Also, we need to remember that Gannon was subpoenaed by Fitzgerald, and I have been wondering if this is one of the reasons Fitzgerald is so freakin slow winding this thing up.

[H2O Man]

105. I think

he actually has things about completed now. The only issues that remain to be completed involve some journalists' appeal to the federal court .... and the court decision will hopefully be handed down very soon. The case law is so clear that it is extremely unlikely this decision will go against Fitzgerald.

My understanding is that the only issue at hand is how many indictments will result from the thorough work "the Bulldog" has done. As in the Watergate era, once those indictments begin, those who have sworn to protect the White House secrets begin to think in terms of saving their own miserable behinds.

[Me.]

47. Well There Are Operatives & Then There Are Operatives

"{2} intelligence operatives including one who had a cover working for a high profile newspaper"

[CTyankee]

54. Interesting analysis

I had not seen some of the points you raise. Do you see any chance that some of these turning points could happen again as the layers on the Gannon thing start peeling away, the recent release of 9/11 commission showing Bush and Rice's deceptions, general unhappiness over the deficit and Iraq, thepolitical fallout of losing SS privatization, and left wing agitation on the Internet converge to make a "perfect storm" and we can get rid of this guy?

[H2O Man]

61. Yes.

Never underestimate how offensive this idiot's spending policies are to true fiscal conservatives. He is creating many enemies. His behaviors are not entirely unlike Nixon's, in that he believes he has unlimited power.

[BR_Parkway]

21. AHA, Freedom of Infomation Act for the application? Anyone got it?

[Me.]

19. Delicious!

Both that you've started another "Plame" thread and the correlations between Plame and Watergate. This Gannon business does have an "aroma" and it does have the feel of being able to go somewhere. My understanding is, as posted on DU yesterday, that Gannon has appeared before the Plame grand jury.

It's the arrogance, always the smug self-approbation that they can do anything that gets them, and it's always the little thing, like a shoe catching the edge of a rug, that trips them up. Otherwise, why would he, Gannon, throw a challenge out there, to the bloggers, and the people of DU like he did, stupidly understimatimg all of them?

[frictionlessO]

24. a most excellent thread!!

Thanks for the correlations!

[H2O Man]

25. Stay with us ....

I'll bet that the old & moldy DUers will join me in remembering the days of Watergate .... which were remarkably similar to today. We are going to watch this president become isolated and paranoid much in the manner of Nixon. And I think Spiro Cheney will be facing some legal problems very soon.

[CroixRoussienne]

26. Right You Are!

H2O, I remember those days as if it were yesterday, and the parallels, although not "uncanny", are there: the break-in looked insignificant for a long time due to the coverup, but the coverup is what killed them. My question is, where is our John Dean?

You will recall that the moment of truth came only when a low-level operative named Butterfield let slip the existence of the famous "Nixon Tapes", which were the key to forcing the resignation. Who will be our Butterfield?

As I do follow your words closely, I suggest that, oddly enough, Rove could be the weak link when it all comes out.

[Me.]

29. Gannon

Could be Butterfield. After all if he had never drawn attention to himself the way he did and challenged the bloggers there may never have been the focus on him that brought the question of why he was given the info about V. Plame to light. Maybe Joe Wilson is our Dean,as this all started with him challenging the admin on the validity of the Niger claim.

[frictionlessO]

27. Oh I am staying with you till the end, my friend.

For the last couple of months Ive been talking with my wife about how we can watch the critical mass build around all the lies of this admin. That things like this take years to unfold. Watergate has been the mantra I tell everyone about.

I was born in '72 but the Nixon years always intrigued me. Didnt he actually say on tape somewhere that it was those damn hippies and protesters that kept him from useing a tactical nuke in Vietnam???
That is what inspires me continously, they stopped a nuke from falling damnit!!! Now we need to stop something far more insidous from happening anymore, its not just about our country or even one or two wars. Its about the future of the entire world.

All from one lame psuedo-journalist and a megalomaniacal political operative named rove, (sorry grammar queens I refuse to use an R to spell his name!).

[NewJeffCT]

28. Born in '66, so my memory of Watergate...

My memory of Watergate was me hating Nixon because the Watergate hearings were on TV in the afternoons when I came home from school and that interupted my afternoon cartoons! Early start as a Democrat, eh? ;=)

I think Bush & company are much more isolated that Nixon ever was. Nixon was at least smart enough to think on his feet. In her trip to France, Dr. Condi Rice had to have children's questions screened, fer cryin' out loud. It's shameful that one of the most powerful people in America can't even take questions from children without them being screened.

[H2O Man]

40. Good points.

Nixon was an odd man. He really had no friends in the sense of being a human being; he had business associations. Henry K often said, "Can you image how great a man he would be if anyone ever loved him?" He was prone to being alone, feeling self-pity, unable to enjoy success for 12 hours (literally), and of course drank to excess.

Bush has pathology in his interpersonal relationships, but for significantly different reasons. His mother did love him (much unlike Nixon's) and spoiled him. George truly thinks he's not just "one of the guys," but rather the exact center of the group. Very, very different. Each creates specific problems, and they aren't in the best interests of our country.

[AngryOldDem]

32. My thoughts exactly about Cheney

and I remember all too well the Watergate era, so I guess that makes me "old" and "moldy," too....:D

When more allegations about Haliburton came up this week (forget the particulars, it was mentioned only in passing on CBS), I could not help but draw parallels to the Maryland scandal that brought down Agnew, which, as we all know, got the ball rolling, ultimately to the big prize himself.

As Nixon showed, it doesn't take a whole lot to set things in motion to bring down a whole empire. There was no bigger understatement ever made that the Watergate burglarly was "third-rate." I think we may have seen the beginnings of that with Bush here this week, with this Gannon mess busting open.

But my concerns are those of many here: The climate, especially that of the press, was much different in '72 than it is today. Plus, we had people who were politicized and generally awake at the wheel as it concerned current events. Too often I get the disconcerting feeling that only a handful of us are paying attention these days...

Thanks for this thread.

[H2O Man]

41. Cheny/Agnew

I keep thinking about the phrase regarding asbestos in the State of the Onion speech.

[Me.]

43. Details Please

Didn't, couldn't, wouldn't watch

[H2O Man]

46. His Honesty

the president made comments about limiting lawsuits; among his rantings was a mention about asbestos cases. I believe that this is in reference to some cases involving Tricky Dick Cheney and Halliburton. Way back when we had the services of a political .... well, you remember.

[DemonFighterLives]

122. Leading asbestos attorney was on Wendy Wild yesterday

He was mentioning that W* was referring to these claims as frivolous. My goodness people are dying and old sneer cheney is just hoping that Dresser will be let off the hook. I'm sure he can get another bonus from Haliburton.
The attorney was saying that the people pushing asbestos in the past knew of the dangers and moved the "stose" for profit. He said that the second tier of people were dying such as a wife who washed her hubbies clothing.
I worked in lead abatement alongside part of the company that did asbestos removal. Scary stuff and it may not hit you for decades after ingestion.
W* can laugh this off like the lady who sued McD for hot coffee. That was a for real occurence as well. This lawyer stated that 90%? of the malpractice cases are won by the doctors so this whole frivolous crap is just another way to prevent deserving victims from recieving their fair shake.

[seventythree]

95. yah,

you are the only one,besides me, that took note of that, it seems. Blew me away with Mr. Asbestos-suits-for-Halliburton sitting smugly behind him. I'm enjoying the walk down memory lane as I guess I am old, too. At one time I could lay you chapter and verse on Watergate as I would read the news magazines avidly on the bus to work, devouring every emerging detail. But alas, my memory for it has faded so I appreciate the jog.

[H2O Man]

106. One thing I've always

remembered, from a case that strangely enough had a bit of Nixon involvement, was when DA Vince Bugliosi quoted an old Chinese saying to the jury hearing the Manson case: "The palest ink is better than the best memory." (Remember that idiot Nixon, a lawyer of all things, told reporters that Manson was "obviousl guilty" during the trial? Thanks, Dick, for lmost causing a mistrial!)

A couple of my friends tease me because part of my library contains a significant number of books both by and about Nixon. No matter that he was the most dangerous person to serve as president up to that time, he was an important figure in history. Sad our country did not learn the first time.

[kohodog]

36. Will any Republicans stand for what is right?

That's when Watergate really started to move. It will take a couple of Republican house members with integrity, and they're in short supply today.

[H2O Man]

42. That's our job.

We need to study Watergate. Use it as a roasd map. Determine which republican is most likely to be honest. And then put pressure on. We have one thing on our side: 2006 elections.

[NewJeffCT]

55. There may be a few honest Republicans... but

But, I don't see a Lowell Weicker in the batch.

Chris Shays, the moderate Republican from my state of CT may be one... he was one of the few to vocally oppose the DeLay inspired ethics re-write that the Republicans flip-flopped on.

[TankLV]

168. Except for the small fact that THE ENTIRE GOV'T IS IN REPUKE CONTROL!

A "small" difference.

A repuke congress will never investigate a repuke even if he is caught sodomizing little boys on stage!

Never happen.

Watergate had a DEMOCRATIC controlled congress - and they set the agenda.

Unless we do the same and elect a Democratic House and Senate, NOTHING will come of this. NOTHING.

The repuke party is first and foremost loyal to the repuke party and to hell with the rest of the constitution or the country for that matter.

They have PROVEN this is thier allegience.

NOTHING will ever come of this until we get back control of congress.

Until then, wishful thinking.

We are seeing the destruction of the American experiment before our very eyes.

[H2O Man]

173. I agree with almost

everything you have said here. The one thing that I do not agree fully with is in regard to the republicans .... I believe that if they think they will be replaced by democrats if they refuse to take action, they will take action. I also think that there are republicans at various levels who do not care for Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

68. "Oldy, moldy..."

Hey, I wesemble that wemark! Spiro, Spriro on the wall... I was glued to the teevee for the Watergate hearings. We can hope...
Only problem, there are more determined PNAC'ers around W (we need a 'smilie' icon to do the W with a circle and slash) than there were with Nixon.

[hootinholler]

89. And I hope they are a RICO suit against the PNAC ...

And don't forget these guys are in power from 2 coups.

-Hoot

[MsTryska]

30. You know? Why is no one playing

the "what if he was a terrorist?" angle.



i think perhaps a LTTE campaign asking what if he was a terrorist or what if he was an attempted assassin, just what is going on with White House Security, would make for some interesting refocus on the issue.

[TWiley]

31. I sure hope so.

My only concern is that this could be another shrewd maneuver similar to the "Dan Rather Story".

The republicans managed to prove the whole AWOL issue was false just because they managed to prove that one (possibly planted) document was false.

The Plame issue is an important one. I had all but given up hope on it.

[Occulus]

44. Regarding Gannon, the forgery, and Plame:

I dug through some links provided here earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3080029

I've taken the liberty of digging through Gannon's Freep posts. It looks even worse in Notepad than it does in a browser, by the way, but here are some of his posts from over there. The exchange at the end with the poster named "John Galt" is particularly revealing. Also, I do think after reading this that the real Gannon and this guy are one and the same; he makes that much pretty clear in his posts. As of right now, the threads are still there, and I doubt they'll be pulled, as he's something of a "star" over there.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1168703/posts?page=108#108

To: Maigrey

The truth will set you free! I point you to the WashPo story from Dec 26, 2003 that says the

CIA is upset with me for talking about a document they say is a forgery (when they are not

denying that it exists) that details EXACTLY what the Senate Intel Committee says.

Plame got him the job and the White House didn't know they were sending him - otherwise they

would have nixed it knowing that Wilson was anti-war.

The sweet taste of vindication.

108 posted on 07/10/2004 10:21:23 AM PDT by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff

Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies >

Sure. But hey, he said he knows something here. Can't these people ever keep their mouths shut for their own sake?



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1048813/posts

(He started this thread and apparently hasn't participated further... but you know he read every response.)


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092073/posts

To: cyncooper
On the advice of counsel, I cannot comment on this matter. But thanks for asking!
19 posted on 03/06/2004 4:07:55 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff

Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies >

(it sounds to me as if he's being defensive there. Got something to worry about, Jeffie-boy?

To: mrustow
They may not like what I have to say.

Excuse me, did we find out why the FBI files were in the White House residence and who hired

Craig Livingstone?

And the Rose Law firm billing records?

And that nasty business of Vince Foster and Ron Brown.

And the perjury by President Clinton?

And the pardons?

And Hillary's quid pro quo for the Jewish vote and the Hispanic vote?

I may have to convene my own Grand Jury!
23 posted on 03/06/2004 7:12:56 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff

Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)

(Invoking Clinton: the sure sign of an untenable position.)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1093819/posts

This is the most important thread. Here he totally reveals himself. This guy better be questioned, and questioned hard.

I've placed Gannon's statements in italics due to the fact that the page is in Freepervision:

To: Peach
You are kind. What is interesting about this is that I have become ensnared in this matter because I asked questions of my government.

This may a chilling effect on freedom of the press.

All this commotion, but the central question has yet to be answered: At the time that Robert Novak's column was published, was Valerie Plame a "covert

operative"?

The CIA has refused to comment on this very important point.

If she was not, then no crime has been committed and all communications between the administration and reporters is just gossip.

9 posted on 03/09/2004 7:43:33 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies >

And now the revealing exchange:

To: JohnGalt
Your professed insight into the motivation of the Grand Jury is merely guesswork.

The document in question has never been acknowleged by any government agency to even exist.

This is a one-sided investigation where people are being accused of crimes for revealing names and information that may have not been secret in the first

place.
11 posted on 03/09/2004 7:53:13 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies >

To: Jeff Gannon
That is simply not true, Jeff.

You are ensnared because you made reference to a government document, which appears to have been a forgery. You need to tell the Grand Jury who made you

privy to that document.
12 posted on 03/09/2004 7:54:19 AM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies >

To: JohnGalt
I disagree with your characterization of the document itself, but that aside, I maintain that I am under no obligation whatsoever to reveal my sources.

That is a fundamental element of maintaining a free press.
16 posted on 03/09/2004 8:01:36 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies >

To: JohnGalt
Justin Raimondo is that you? I didn't think you hung out here anymore.

Oops, now I've "outed" someone else!
18 posted on 03/09/2004 8:17:43 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies >

To: JohnGalt
You're a riot!

Be careful you don't show too much knowledge about national security matters - you too could be hauled before a secret tribunal!
20 posted on 03/09/2004 8:50:07 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies >

To: Jeff Gannon
Don't you reference the document in this December 2003 interview posted on your web site? Does the document exist or not, Jeff? You would not even have

to reveal a source to answer that question, now would you?

Jeff Gannon, the White House correspondent and Washington Bureau Chief for Talon News declined to reveal whether he had seen the memo or had its contents

described to him.

While he would not disclose his source, Gannon said, "I will tell you that the information did not come from inside the administration."

"For something that is supposed to be classified, it seems that this document is easily accessible," Gannon added. "Washington is leaking like a cheap

umbrella. Just look at what's happening over on Capitol Hill."
22 posted on 03/09/2004 8:53:41 AM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies >
To: JohnGalt
I do indeed. So talking about a document, that no government agency confirms even exists, is a crime?

23 posted on 03/09/2004 8:59:43 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
Not necessarily, but you claimed to be ignorant as to why you might be subpoenaed in this investigation. That is simply not true.

It's clear that the method by which you obtained the information you referenced in your interview with Wilson could be material in an on going

investigation. Who gave you the information? Who told you about the memo? Where did you learn about the memo? That is all relevant if in fact the memo

proves to be a forgery, don't you think?
24 posted on 03/09/2004 9:08:43 AM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies >
To: JohnGalt
Sorry I had to interrupt our back and forth, but I had to go to the WHITE HOUSE for the press briefing.

If the memo is a forgery, then it becomes even less important.
25 posted on 03/09/2004 11:57:44 AM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
There is an on going FBI investigation into the forged Nigerian Uranium documents.

You were made privy to either a document/information (you have declined to share in what form how you got the information) that suggested a meeting

involving Plame and intelligence officials that never occurred.

It is against the law to forge government documents and thus it is only logical that investigators would ask where you obtained the document, or b) who

told you about the memo. Investigators need to determine who forged the documents and prosecute the individuals accordingly.

If you think forged government documents are "even less important" I disagree, but what about your credibility as a journalist. Someone set you up, or b)

you were duped by the forged document, and you don't care?

I find that hard to believe, and suggest that you are posturing here in cyberspace. You do care, you should care, and I suspect you are not looking

forward to your G Gordon Liddy moment that awaits you.
26 posted on 03/09/2004 12:23:49 PM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies >
To: JohnGalt
You have really gone off the deep end. My question to Ambassador Wilson about the document was intended to get him to comment. It's no different than if

I had asked, "There's a place in Nevada called Area 51, even though the government says it doesn't exist. What do you say to that?"

As far as my G. Gordon Liddy moment, I very much look forward to it, but not the one you probably play out with your friends on weekends. G. Gordon Liddy

is a great American!
27 posted on 03/09/2004 12:51:57 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
According to the Washington Post article on your web site, you were the only person to even acknowledge the memo's existence. You referenced the memo

specifically, i.e. a document--- are you suggesting you would like to have phrased that question differently like "reports suggest your wife..."?

If it is your claim that you never saw the memo, then it must have been someone you trusted who told you about what the memo said, fair? I mean, you are

the only person on record stating knowledge that this memo actually exists and you wish to be thought of as a reputable journalist don't you?

And yet you claim you don't know why you might be relevant to the case?

That is simply unconvincing. You know why you are involved and you are probably none too happy with the people or person who got you into this mess, yet

I suspect you probably have a pretty good grasp that you are "expendable."

Liddy was a stand-up guy and a patriot, but he was also a felon.
28 posted on 03/09/2004 1:04:33 PM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies >
To: JohnGalt
You are so far off the mark on this, but I won't suggest you stop, since you reveal yourself to others who might be following this thread.

I will ask you to stop making judgements about my "reputation", however. It is unseemly and beyond what I consider appropriate in this forum.

Further, I have no desire to convince you of anything, especially since I sense that you have some self-righteous theory on the subject. Besides that,

you are completely wrong.
29 posted on 03/09/2004 1:26:47 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
"I don't know why I'm on the list of journalists being called before the Grand Jury,"

I have only stated you are not being truthful in this statement, and am suggesting you know exactly why you are being called before the Grand Jury.

I then laid out several reasons why it might be unconvincing for you to suggest that you have no idea why.

Is it still your position that you have no idea, even with a Washington Post article on your web site that states you were the only person to mention a

memo, why you have been called before the Grand Jury?
30 posted on 03/09/2004 1:32:23 PM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
I see you are making waves again....

LOL!
31 posted on 03/09/2004 1:39:12 PM PST by abner (FREE THE MIRANDA MEMOS! http://www.intelmemo.com or http://www.wintersoldier.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies >
To: JohnGalt
It is still my position. And you don't know for SURE why, either. You're only guessing, but if you know otherwise for CERTAIN, you are probably in

violation of some law regarding secrecy of the Grand Jury.
32 posted on 03/09/2004 1:39:31 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
Obviously, I don't know for sure, but I can at least with some ease understand why you would be asked before a Grand Jury.

You are, according to the WP in December, the only one on record who refers to a 'memo.'

Seems pretty darn obvious when you consider this investigation began at the top and is working its way down.

Do you think they have phone records?

33 posted on 03/09/2004 1:44:22 PM PST by JohnGalt (What tale will serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young? -- R. Kipling)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies >
To: abner
I must be doing something right!
34 posted on 03/09/2004 1:54:49 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
Me thinks.

Did you get the CD?
35 posted on 03/09/2004 2:04:07 PM PST by abner (FREE THE MIRANDA MEMOS! http://www.intelmemo.com or http://www.wintersoldier.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies >
To: diotima; ConservativeGadfly; Interesting Times
You guys see this yet?
36 posted on 03/09/2004 2:09:38 PM PST by abner (FREE THE MIRANDA MEMOS! http://www.intelmemo.com or http://www.wintersoldier.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >
To: abner
Not yet. When did you send it?
37 posted on 03/09/2004 2:21:40 PM PST by Jeff Gannon (Listen to my radio show "Jeff Gannon's Washington" on www.RIGHTALK.com)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies >
To: Jeff Gannon
About 3 weeks ago...

I guess I will send another.

That last exchange between him and "JohnGalt" seems fairly telling to me. Even a Freeper has the guy's number, it seems. And hmmmm..... the freepers are feeding him information, it seems.

Forgive me for quoting things from over there, but as he's actually a member, the threads are still up (!!), and he's now a very public figure, maybe there'll be something useful we can pick out of them.

[centristo]

51. the funniest line in there...

"I will ask you to stop making judgements about my "reputation", however. It is unseemly and beyond what I consider appropriate in this forum."

03/09/2004 1:26:47 PM PST by Jeff Gannon

It's OK "Jeff", you don't have to worry about your "reputation" anymore.

[Me.]

52. Like He Would Know

what is unseemly!

Edited to say: Welcome

[starroute]

59. "John Galt" is an Ayn Rand reference

I think it's a character from one of her books, but I'm not sure. I just remember many years ago seeing the Randists wearing buttons saying "Who Is John Galt?" (Though I don't think I ever cared enough to find out.)

That could be why Gannon asks "Galt" if he's really Justin Raimondo -- I believe Raimondo is a libertarian. And it also makes me pretty sure that "John Galt" is not a Gannon/Guckert pseudonym, despite the coincidence of initials.

In other words, there might be something interesting playing out even over at FR.

[Occulus]

100. Oh, bank on it.

The thing is, one trait I've noticed about powerful Republicans (or pugs who think they have power, like this Gannon crust) is that they can have a very arrogant streak when they're playing dirty. They really like to brag, and if they let things slip, well..... we catch it. :)

[H2O Man]

107. Hubris

You are right: we catch it. And even more, they are going to catch it.

[Klapaucius]

130. John Galt.....

is a character from Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged'.

Essentially, John Galt is a genius who creates a power source, which is, for all intents and purposes, endless, clean, everything else. The company that he worked for and created the 'engine' for, had a very odd benefit structure, which is portrayed as a kind of Communism or Socialism. Essentially, the more you require, the more you get. As such, Galt doesn't agree with the fact that he should work more than the others because their need is greater than his, because they are benefitting from his innovation. He then smashes this engine that he has created, and the company goes bankrupt, because other folks are profiting more from his engine than he is. I think there's a little more to it than that, but it's been a while since I've read the book.

The premise of the book is that there are folks who push the advancement of technology and science and a number of other fields, and that these people are subject to the claims of others upon their works, and don't much benefit from it themselves. The answer, they think, is to get the worlds attention. When you have the weight of the world on your shoulders, how do you get their attention? You shrug.

I see it as an argument for perpetual patent, for the lifting of restrictions on those who innovate, so they can build monopolies and the like. The problem is that the real world doesn't work like that. It would put us back in the time of the railroad tycoons, etc. The book doesn't really concern society, only those whose inventions further society. It portrays these innovators as being the only competent people, and everybody else as being incompetent and out to benefit from those, who in Rand's view, are the only competent ones.

These innovators, at the end of the book, have withdrawn into their own small, close-knit society hidden away somewhere, and let the greater portion of society fall into chaos and ruin, until, they feel, that larger society will be forced to accept their greatness. They then will return to society to be lauded/fawned over, etc.

K.

[Me.]

131. Prescient Wouldn't You Say?

And interesting that Gannon would have named himself Galt! Fascinating even when you consider what his view of himself and his inner monologue must be. Wonder what "innovations" he's come up with and to what use he has put his "genius" and if he's thinks he's actually outsmarted everyone, and, what has he done to feel the "weight of the world"? If only we could pin this operative down, beyond his Clark Kent impersonation. Didn't someone on DU mention that the "Talon" was the name of the Smallville HS paper?

[giant_robot]

33. I'd love to see the administration held accountable on this.

But until the dots are connected to the White House, Bush still has plausible deniability, and that means this goes nowhere.

[rodeodance]

150. yes, I am afraid you are right.

[Me.]

35. BuzzFlash GOP Hypocrite of the Week: Howard Kurtz

<<<snip>>>
“In what can only be described as journalistic malfeasance, the controversial Kurtz came to the defense of the mysterious right-wing pseudo-journalist, claiming that bloggers had wrongly dug into his personal life. Kurtz went on to opine that any journalist could get a day pass to the White House and ask the President a question. In short, Kurtz made Gannon (aka James Guckert) out to be the victim of some sort of liberal witch hunt.

Following the Gannon story, anyone with half a brain cell realizes that Kurtz's comments are simply damage control bullet points from or for the White House. The blogging world did what the lackey mainstream press will no longer do, expose a story that is at the epicenter of the deceit and propaganda media campaign central to how the Bush Cartel continues to control America. The Gannon story touches upon everything from manufactured news to manufactured "reporters" to the Valerie Plame affair to websites that have a connection to the White House, but appear independent, to a Bush Cartel hypocrisy about gays, to payola, to scripted Bush news conferences, to who knows what. This is a BIG media story that should be on the cover of the New York Times and Post.”.cont…

“And what did Howard Kurtz do? Why, he participated in the White House propaganda campaign by coming to the aid of one of their faux-journalist agents, a guy who was there for the sole purpose of helping move along the White House message points and to keep the news conferences and gaggles from getting derailed by the truth.

Hey, Howard, let's just poke one small hole in your tortured "Gannon as Victim" White House message point. In this day of post-911 security, would any reporter using a pseudonym who had no prior record of reporting and supposedly built gay pimp websites . . .be granted a security clearance? Can just any reporter get a day pass and end up asking Bush a question?” cont…


http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/05/02/edi05028.html

[Just Me]

39. I just pray to the Almighty that it happens BEFORE the next war!!!

Because, if the neoCONspirators get a world war going, it will be a helluva lot harder to nail the scumbags!!!

[Poppyseedman]

45. I am as outraged about this as anybody

but, I fail to see how this will bring bush down. aka: Nixon's Watergate

Let me point out the media will not give this story legs simply because it's about them. The media hates having the spotlight pointed at them.

I realize Gannon has bogus credentials, but there are other reporters (?) getting into white house briefing with a daily pass like he did.

Don't you think the bush white house will now scrutinize every press pass handed out.

[CTyankee]

56. The press didn't want to cover Watergate at first

Maybe H20 Man can tell us more about the press's role in Watergate. I seem to recall from "All the President's Men" that there was some real footdragging by the NYTimes and even the Wash. POst until Ben Bradlee was completely satisfied with Woodstein's stuff. I do agree that the press doesn't want to cover the Gannon story because it shows some muscle flexing by the bloggers and the press is just jealous to giveup their turf. But maybe, just maybe, we can get their attention and their cooperation.

[leftchick]

48. I want to know why NO ONE on TV except Keith O has called him

by his real name!!!! They all reverently refer to him as Mr. Gannon! THAT IS NOT HIS NAME!!! And they never ask where he got his $50.00 Journalism certificate?!?!!!

:argh:

[Cocoa]

49. the Bushies are not hiding their plans to transform the government

Cheney's energy task force was the first signal of it, and after 9/11* it came as an avalanche.

*imo, probably including complicity

[bear425]

50. I was just thinking about you this morning and wondering

where you've been on this. I agree it's happening now! Deja vu - indeed!

[mzmolly]

57. "It's happening, folks!"

oHHHH, I hope so! :toast:

[centristo]

58. that whole day pass thing....

excellent salon article

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/02/11/gannon/

[kohodog]

63. Gonzalaz recused himself from Plame probe

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/02/11/national/w142529S42.DTL

Not a surprise, but this investigation is far from over.

[kohodog]

64. Can we find a link between Gannon and the Whitehouse?

If in fact Gannon saw a classified document that mentioned Plame's job (Covert Agent), can we find out who showed it to him. Can we find links to Gannon-Guckert/Libby, Gannon-Guckert/Rove, or Gannon-Guckert/Cheney? I'd love to see the internal emails, Airforce one and Whitehouse phone records, but will never get the chance. but It would be interesting to see if we can find any connections between Talon, GOPUSA and Administration insiders. Someone fed this guy and someone cleared an impostor to ask questions of the President. City officials are being kept out of Social Security sales pitches by Bush and they allow someone using a Pseudonym to be a lifeline to McClellan and Bush during press conferences?

Something is very rotten in the good ole USA.

[TacticalPeek]

66. I say unto you

I'd love to see the internal emails, Airforce one and Whitehouse phone records, but will never get the chance.


I say unto you that yea, verily, you will see the emails and the phone logs, as were seen in times of old, when they were PROFS notes, visitor logs, etc.

At least, you'll see those that become part of the public record through court proceedings. :)


Indubitably.



Verily, I say.

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. Another difference from Watergate times - the internet & independent news

I am old enough to have been watching the Watergate hearings and being caught up in the furor of "What happened today?! What new revelations have been made?!" It was an amazing time, a time of empowerment. When the truth finally came out and Nixon stepped down, we young idealists were thrilled with this evidence that the "system CAN work." It really seemed like an impossible dream coming true, a miracle, but it started from small bits of the truth getting out and then gradually snowballing. We need to remember this lesson and take heart from it.

The corporate media are now owned by the administration in a way they weren't in Nixon's time. But we now have internet-based information exchange and political activism, something entirely new and expanding fast. Independent sources of information can be reached, end-running the corporate media propaganda. Along these lines, I'd like to draw your attention to a thread about the birth a new news service that we should all know about:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x324363
Title: "New media power to help further the cause"

But the traditional tools of LTTEs and other pressures on elected officials and media are still effective and need to be pushed on Gannongate and the other major administration scandals and issues. A thread today emphasized the effectiveness of this traditonal approach:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1587721
Title: "Guys - are you not sure writing/calling/faxing/emailing does any good?"

The fight is heating up, and, as in Watergate, the truth that is coming out is going to lead to the criminals in power.

H2O - The person who posted the 2nd thread is interested in participating in planning the new group we discussed (our exchange on this is in the thread). I've PM'ed you about it.

[kohodog]

67. Count me in, too

I've also been waiting for this to heat up. The Plame threads from eons ago had legs because it seemed to present a Watergate-like crack. Who will be the next Deep Throat? I am confident one will emerge.

[90-percent]

69. bush-gate

What flabbergasts me is that Joe Wilson (or somebody?) estimates that 60 people have DIED as a result of Plame's outing?

Thats 60 poor bastards who were assasinated by criminals who had their cover blown by American newspapers printing a deliberately leaked story for political advantage!

Isn't that just a wee bit outrageous????

All these informants dead just because of a political dirty trick? Makes a quantum leap past ruining someones reputation or costing them their job.

60 fucking lives gone because of these bastards! If that aint fucking treason and grounds for impeachment, then nothing is!!!

-85%

[H2O Man]

70. Yes, I just got back on ....

and I think that there is a growing awareness that we have the ability to fight this beast that has taken control of our government. It isn't going to be easy, and there aren't going to be instant results. But we will win.

I have maybe two hours more work to do before a presentation tomorrow. I'll be back on then.

[seventythree]

98. the alternative media is the Paul Revere of our time

[against all enemies]

71. One problem - No Woodward and Bernstein. Today's press is bought

and paid for. And remember the hearings? Then even the Republicans went after Nixon (Weicker-CT). Today not one Republican would vote for an investigation, never mind press for the answers. I wish it weren't so, but I have seen little evidence that shows that today's Congress is interested in justice of any kind.

[starroute]

72. Not justice, but self-protection

The Social Security battle shows that even Republican Congressmen are capable of placing the wishes of their constituents ahead of White House arm-twisting, as long as the issue is important enough to get people really up in arms.

Watergate was exposed by the Washington Post well before the Congress started to act. From the burglary to Nixon's resignation took two years. What's going on now is equivalent to the Woodward and Bernstein phase of things. But if the administration becomes toxic enough, even the Republican Party will have no choice but to jump ship for the sake of its own survival.

Also, don't forget that the administration has been working hand over fist to alienate the CIA types, from the Plame outing to the wholesale firings under Porter Goss. If we are to have our own Deep Throat or a Butterworth to do the equivalent of revealing the White House tapes, it may come from that direction.

There is great arm-wrestling going on behind the scenes at the moment, but the forces arrayed against the administration are growing, while Bush has already peaked. And when the stasis breaks, it could happen very suddenly.

[kohodog]

73. Your post gives me hope

I hope this house of cards falls quickly. Someone in the bottom row with a conscience needs to move.

[against all enemies]

76. I hope you're right. I live in Connecticut, in what should be a Democratic

District in the House of Representatives. But we have Nancy Johnson "representing us". She sold the seniors down the river on the prescription drug benefits and she has already come out for Bush's social Security plan. She backed Newt and still backs Delay.

If dirt bag Republicans like Johnson can support this stuff in a "blue" state what hope do we have?

[KoKo]

74. Either "Bulldog Fitzgerald" is a "Sly Fox" or he's caved and now getting

pressure. I hope he's a "Sly Fox."

"Editor and Publisher" interviewed Gannon today and he says he NEVER testified before a Grand Jury about Plame...and basically said...I dunno nuttin about memo's Plame...whatever." (my interpretation of his comments.) Here's the link for folks who missed it:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/index.jsp

So....who in the WaPo and NYT's was trying to put "Talon News" into the Grand Jury Testimony? Gannon denies it...so who's telling the truth.

What the Hell is going on here. And WHY the SILENCE from the Cables tonight on "Gannon/PoppyGate?"

Incredible. I hope you are correct. I remember Watergate...but it was alot simpler than this mess is... We have more news today, but it seems less "Focus." :shrug: who knows.... I always hope there someone out there helping us...but four years, three stolen elections, two wars and our country going "down the tubes" makes me wonder when the "troops for truth" are ever going to show up!!!!! :nuke:

[Me.]

75. Gannon Is So Damn Bogus

it stinks. How about this part of the article:

"My professional name is Jeff Gannon, and that is what people called me,” he explained, adding, in an odd reference, “It is like Kirk Douglas, they do not refer to him when they meet him by his real name."

Is he delusional?

[H2O Man]

83. I can't help this:

I think he's a political operative who crawled out from under a sidewalk.


Sorry, other readers, just a small attempt at humor in response to an e-mail from earlier this day. Sick humor comes out this time of night.

[kohodog]

77. Tucker Carlson was on PBS (excuse me while I puke)

He basically laughed at the Gannon attrocity. I just wrote thirteen to say that they be no more likely to recieve a donation from me than FOX. (I have supported them in the past.

[starroute]

78. Watergate was *not* simpler than this

Remember -- after more than thirty years, we still have no clue *why* the Watergate burglary happened. There may have been wheels within wheels that we know nothing about. But in the end, none of that mattered.

As we used to say back in the day, "It isn't the crime, it's the coverup." What the Bushies do as they start to come under fire may be more crucial than anything they've done up to now.

[H2O Man]

81. Also remember

that the Watergate burglary was but one in a series of break-ins. And it is more likely than not that even those that are known represent but the tip of the ice cube.

The cause of the Watergate break-in was quite likely the concern over O'Brien exposing some questionable transactions involving Hughes and the Nixon machine. If you start from there on that break-in, you can have fun moving either forward to the resignation, or backward to the late 1950s. Either way, you encounter the strangest group of criminals that ever threatened our democracy.

[no safe haven]

90. I cannot for the life of me remember what it was that

...Nixon was so afraid of having exposed. It's eluding me. My take at the time was that when Johnson refused to run for a 2nd term, he had something on Nixon and did not bring it out into the public domain. Sort of insurance should Nixon go over the top with his agenda. Nixon was afraid the Dems would use that secret to expose him during the presidential race, hence the break-in.
Do you know what that "secret" was - it has since been revealed, but in hindsight, IIRC, it was not all that big a deal, relatively speaking.

[H2O Man]

108. LBJ supported Nixon

in 1972, rather openly. The truth is that he appears to have supported Nixon, though less openly, in 1968. Now, that is odd as hell, because the two had been openly hostile to each other since the days of the Truman presidency. Not just the usual taking other sides of an issue, like might be expected of a liberal democrat and a conservative republican. But on a personal level, they held each other in total contempt.

Now, maybe it has to do with the presidency itself, because today we see a strange relationship between Clinton and the Bush presidents. But, for whatever reason, LBJ became one of Nixon's closest advisors on Vietnam. Nixon had to have been smart enough to recognize that on the entire planet, LBJ should have ranked as last in line for the ability to give valuable advice on Vietnam; my guess is that Nixon knew the full meaning of LBJ's saying about "I'd rather have him in the tent, pissing out, than outside the tent, pissing in."

Nixon had taken some funny-money from Hughes. Of course, Hughes was donating to both sides. You may recall that as Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had investigated Hughes "loans" to Nixon, but the investigation did not lead to any indictments. This resulted in Nixon and his people becoming much bolder, and taking more money from Hughes. Exactly what it was used for remains something of a mystery; however, when there are large donations that disappear and are unaccounted for, one tends to suspect they went for illegal purposes.

We know that Liddy wrote, " The purpose of the second Watergate break-in was to find out what (Democratic Chairman Lawrence) O'Brien had of a derogatory nature about us, not for us to get something on him or the Democrats."(Oudes; xxvi) O'Brien had connections, of course, to Hughes. Now, of course, this is but one of a series of black ops that the plumbers had taken part in. But Nixon used funds from Hughes between '69 and '72 to accomplish goals that could have kept him from being a candidate for re-election.

[no safe haven]

110. Thanks for the refresher course

(Note to self: dust off the old books; re-read) Interesting that LBJ and Nixon were bedfellows of sorts, particularly when you consider that Nixon undermined LBJ's attempt at peace talks between Thieu & NV, and that whole Anna Chenault double-cross. Now THAT was a big deal - prolonged the war, undercut LBJ, made Humphrey look like an incompetent fool and of course Nixon won the election. Maybe LBJ was in on the whole thing? It's not inconceivable.
Thanks again for jogging my memory.

[DemonFighterLives]

117. I don't know if this is right

I have heard that information relating to the Kennedy assassination is what the plumbers were after. Let's just say that it could explain why LBJ and Nixon were getting along. Of course this may not be the entire story and you have the mysterious poppy shadow in the background to this very day.

[H2O Man]

120. No.

There is reason to believe that Nixon did not want the plumbers to be caught, because he knew that some had been involved in a number of things related to Dallas. Remember that he tried to get CI to tell the FBI to "back off" their investigation of the break-ins, due to "national security." But it was the plumbers, perhaps especially the Cubans involved, who had knowledge of Dallas. There would have been no information in the files they targeted that would have involved Dallas.

[DemonFighterLives]

128. Thanks for the response

I thoroughly enjoy your posts. Not trying to press this further, but how do we know what exactly they were after? I was a young teen during the investigation so I kind of had them on ignore at the time.
Very interesting stuff though.

[H2O Man]

132. Oh, please do

ask any question .... not that I can answer all of them, of course, but questions are always good.

We can't possibly know everything they were after. Remember, there were numerous break-ins by the "plumbers." I doubt that we have any idea how many jobs they did.

But the specific one where people associate the Dallas issue with has to do with O'Brien's office. On one of the more famous tapes, Nixon says approximately, "We don't want people digging in that area ... it, ah, involves the whole Bay of Pigs thing." Many people have taken that to be Nixon's code words for Dallas. I think they are right.

However, he does not mean that O'Brien's office had information on Dallas. There is no evidence that democrats ever considered using Dallas as a campaign issue. Ever. Just the opposite: democrats faithfully avoided the subject in any public discussion. There has never been a major candidate for office who spoke out about JFK, MLK, and/or RFK's deaths. Even in the '78 congressional investigations, the democrats avoided an honest examination of the issues.

Rather, the Cubans who were involved in plumber activity are rather easily connected to the figures behind Dallas. If Watergate had been fully investigated, I think most of the older DUers would agree it would have taken the fuzz right off the peach. Because many of the shady characters involved had very criminal pasts.

There are areas that reasonable people will disagree. For example, I doubt that either LBJ or Nixon was involved in Dallas. Both were actually fond of JFK. Yet both were intelligent men. They knew what happened. They fully understood the implications. In a strange way, LBJ was more willing to make sure he did not offend certain sources of power in the USA than Nixon.

[DemonFighterLives]

147. I guess some of my thoughts come from Garrison

His thinking was "who benefitted". You can see Nixon in the background of the JFK pictures. And I don't let LBJ off the hook either. They may have appeared to like him, but business is business. Like the spooky Poppy who shows up in the background of everything to this day. In the strange workings of this gang, they perceive benefit from taking down Plame and anyone else who gets in the way. I feel we will get many answers when Poppy is exposed in about 40-60 years if then. I guess that puts most of us past the stage of being concerned. Let's hope to pass the legends on to our heirs. :-)

[H2O Man]

148. "Who benefitted?"

That's interesting, because it actually takes us back to the beginning of the infamous DU Plame Threads. A couple people were discussing certain aspects of the case, and I suggested that they think in terms of the things that "Man X" taught Garrison. In the wonderful movie JFK, he is played, of course, by Donald Sutherland, and is the man in the park.

In real life -- as I know you know -- Man X was Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty. "Who benefitted?" Surely both LBJ and Nixon are worthy of intense scrutiny in this area. I would never suggest otherwise. It is true that neither LBJ nor Richard Nixon would likely have been president had JFK lived; he would have served through 1968, and a number of others -- including RFK -- would have been in line.

However, I would suggest that by "who benefitted?" Prouty was pointing not only to a limited scope of who could enhance their political career by partaking in the murder of a rival, but more: who had the power to decide who could not be president despite being elected, and who could also put in two men who could not otherwise have been elected president?

It is a funny thing to consider how both LBJ and RN were the only two presidents in recent history who had significant psychiatric "breaks" while serving. One could say it was related to guilt. Possibly. More likely, perhaps, from the tortured knowledge that they simply had to do what they were told. The extreme right-wing, for example, was furious with Nixon for his actions that began the end of the Vietnam War. His October Agreement was absolutely the exact same agreement that the USA could have made in late 1968. Other DUers will confirm that Nixon was considered a traitor by the right-wing who gagged on the line "peace with honor" far more than the left did.

Also, remember that everything about LBJ shows that since being a young representative, his goal was to become the 2nd FDR. His entire reason for wanting to be president can be summed up by the concept of "the Great Society." There is no evidence that he was more than mildly interested in foreign affairs before 1960, and he was very much against the coup in October '63 in Vietnam. Dallas and the war do not fit into any of the patterns of LBJ's personality.

[DemonFighterLives]

153. So maybe I'm close

If someone took out 1 great president and got 2 in place that didn't have a shot otherwise. The guy that I mentioned in the backgroud could be the one or does it go higher into the secret society than the visible ones?

I visit another site called the dweebcabal that has been nearly overtaken by righties. On matters related to Gannon, they point out that he quit and have to blubber about Helen Thomas like she was biased as well. :silly: I guess they think the story is over.
Someone mentioned in this thread that there are an estimated 60 dead because of the Plame outing. Is there a link to that story?

One can definitely see the talking points coming out on this story. Move along, one bad egg reporter, etc.

[H2O Man]

155. Very close.

From Prouty's book "JFK..." on page 304: "If any men, in or out of public life, could have solved this murder, these seven men (the Warren Commission) should have been able to do so. But they did not. In blunt language, as we have said throughout this work, they did not even try. Why not? What power structure was so strong that it could emasdculate a presidential commission?"

Look at the make-up of the Warren Commission: only Allen Dulles was part of the anonymous power elite that ran the country. He acted in a capacity of authority above and beyond the presidency. Easy to demonstrate: {1} Dulles over-ruled (without discussion) Ike's express order not to involve US military in Vietnam with his 1954 Saigon military mission; {2} he was in charge of the U2 operations that resulted in the 5-1-60 crash that derailed the Paris Summit Conference -- again, against Ike's orders; {3} the Bay of Pigs was Dulles' baby.

But the others? Reps. Hale Boggs and Gerald Ford? Senators Russell and Cooper? Even McCloy? These were capable men. Some power kept them from looking for the truth. Neither Nixon or LBJ yielded that type of power .... or else LBJ wouldn't havebeen asking J Edgar on 11-29-63, "How many shots were there really? Were any aimed at me?" and Nixon would have controlled the FBI & CIA parts of the Wategate investigations.

LBJ and Nixon were servants to that power elite. Neither took part in the planning to kill JFK. Both understood exactly what happened, and both were aware that they did not want to die at the hands of a "lone gunman."

[Me.]

157. Lest We Forget

Hale Boggs was killed in a plane crash in Alaska. Funny how many politicians are killed in plane crashes.

[Me.]

154. Who Benefited?

It has been suggested to me that with this last election there was a fight behind the scenes by 2 different factions of money, the eastern variety and those that backed *ush, and that against expectations the *ushie faction prevailed, It is always the money and those are the ones who seek to benefit, they can get rid of a Howard Dean and pick *ush over Kerry and put Nixon in the WH. As much as taking back the gov. from the thugs, we need to take it back from them. And as *ush is out of control, theirs and ours, this may be the moment in time to do it.

[coeur_de_lion]

111. speaking of break-ins . . .

During the run-up to the 2004 election, wasn't there some break-ins at Kerry campaign headquarters in PA?

Can you refresh my memory about this?

[H2O Man]

112. If memory serves me correctly ....

there is a community called Waterville outside Philly; in Waterville, a group of regional (including from NYS) union workers had the headquarters for their voter registration work in that part of PA.

I believe that it was on or about 9-13-04 that the workers at that office found it had been broken into, apparently Sunday night. Though there was money lying out in the open, it was not touched. Rather, the group's computer hard drives were stolen.

The people there were intimidated. The head of the group was a nice elderly lady who was afraid to call the police. Within a few hours, I was informed, and after discussing this with a DU friend, I called Kerry HQ, and would eventually talk to the PA chairperson.

It obviously reminds anyone my age of Watergate. Youngsters like coeur de lion may not remember that far back. I spoke with the person at Kerry HQ about this and a few related issues; he said that the public had no idea the dirty tricks being used in ten of the most hotly contested states.

[coeur_de_lion]

119. yes, you aged darling

(only a year or two older than myself):-) I do remember Watergate very well. I lived in the DC metropolitan area at the time and it was a regularly discussed topic at the family dinner table. I was only 12-13 years old but my father made sure we kids read the reports in the Washington Post and would ask us questions about it during dinner. At the time my father was in the military and stationed at the Pentagon. He did not vote for Nixon in 1968 -- he was in Vietnam that year and voted for Humphrey. My father could tell you stories all day long about the phony Gulf of Tonkin incident and other Vietnam blunders and fabricated stories. The Iraq and Vietnam wars were both started for false reasons.

As young and naive as I was at 13, I was still appalled at what Nixon would resort to. As far as I'm concerned * makes Nixon look like Mother Theresa. There are similarities. Maybe because I'm older now and understand more about the issues I think * far worse than Nixon. I hope he meets with the same fate that Nixon did. Or worse.

Those break-ins in PA were I'm sure just the tip of the iceberg. I just wish we could get stories like this out into the mainstream media.

[H2O Man]

121. On Nixon and Mother Teresa:

It was Richard's friend J Edgar Hoover that liked to dress in women's clothes. Richard refused to wear shorts, even on the beach when he made yet another pathetic effort to appear Kennedy-like. But the photos of a man in women's clother were likely JEH; you were a child, and henmce your confusion.

[coeur_de_lion]

124. silly me!

Why yes, it was J. Edgar who dressed in women's clothing. Pardon my slip -- I am quite aged myself. Good old J. Edgar! Somehow I don't think Mueller will be half as fun as he was. Ah, the good old days.

[Me.]

126. I Defimitely Think *ush Is Worse

The cancer in/on the WH has metastisized

Good to see you Miss Lion Heart!

[coeur_de_lion]

129. Lion Heart

is always here. Even if I don't speak, I'm reading and paying attention. Good to see you also, Friend Me.

[drm604]

145. There was a breakin at

the Montgomery County Democratic headquarters in Norristown, PA. A number of laptops were stolen. It's not in the best part of town so it's possible that it was a simple property crime but, if I recall correctly, some cash that had been left lying on a desk was untouched. The laptops had contained volunteer info and phone banking info. The Watergate break-ins and the possibility of Repub shenanigans popped into my mind at the time. I'm not sure how far the Norristown Police got with any investigation. It didn't end up affecting the election, the county and state both went blue.

Link to news story

[KoKo]

101. You make good point about "why" Watergate happened, but

the evolution of the story seemed to follow a path due to WoodStein, who were being fed the info and powers behind them who wanted Nixon gone.

This whole administration is the culmination of Nixon not being impeached (I always felt that allowed all the crooks to live and fight again for another day...like the Bush I and II Administration.)

But, the times were simpler in some ways and there really seemed to be more diversification of news. But, then I was very young so everything "seemed" much simpler. :D There was more time to digest news then, is perhaps a better way of putting it that what I said. :shrug:

[H2O Man]

109. Your last point

is key, and worthy of serious consideration .... in his book "Worse than Watergate," John Dean focuses on just that: the "shelf life" of breaking news has been greatly reduced. In part, it may be due to the number of media sources; in part, the nature of 24 hour cable news; and the sickening entertainment factor, which focuses in Michael Jackson etc.

Yet, at the same time the door to the mainstream media is being closed, another door has opened: that of the internet. We actually have that which we need to redeem the American dream. And not only can I say in full confidence that we are going to do it -- I can say with great pride and satisfaction that we are doing it now. The people in America, such as those on DU who have not given up hope and accepted defeat, are taking part in a chapter of our national history that is as important as any other effort in human history.

[H2O Man]

79. Well, that's interesting.

I do not think that the general public has a grasp of what Watergate actually was about. It was a multi-layered series of crimes, and a complex series of attempted cover-ups. The constitutional form of democracy we knew was certainly at risk. Nixon, of course, was outraged and felt "picked upon" because several administrations had resorted to many of the same illegal tactics that his people did in the late first term. Of course, while true, each of the past three administrations had had very different goals than did the Nixon group.

Have you ever watched a movie that you haven't seen in years? Well, most of us haven't really reviewed the Watergate Era in decades. The amount of similarities is amazing.

I agree that there are some disadvantages today .... things that are different today that make our position more difficult. I suppose that is in large part because after Nixon resigned, that virus that threatened the American political body was allowed to survive. It was as if when Ford pardoned Nixon, the country stopped taking an antibiotic ..... and the virus mutated, and became the Iran-Contra scandal. Again, we started treatment, and the Bush 1 pardons put an end to the treatment .... and it mutated again.

Yet we have advantages that the anti-war, anti-Nixon people never enjoyed. For but one example, there is a large "older generation," who not only are ready but are better prepared to help in this struggle than there was in the late 1960s and early '70's.

I'm thinking of my late father, who was a good democrat and an old railroad union official. I remember how Watergate affected him. He was used to the thought that many politicians were crooked, and he thought Nixon was a repulsive human being. But Watergate stunned him; he was shocked that a president would betray this country. My children will never remember me being stunned by Bush/Cheney.

[diamond14]

84. it was the LEAK of the "Pentagon Papers" that burst the nixon scandals

wide open...that made 'Woodward and Burnstein', two young reporters from the Washington Post, very famous...when the WP actually PUBLISHED the papers....


TWO young reporters made their whole careers off that scoop of outstanding investigative journalism....and just sold their old files for ummmmmm $12 MILLION, enough for a very nice retirement for both...

now, if we could just encourage TWO young investigative reporters to take on the threads of the 'bush*-gannon' scandal...and pull it all together....it'd be so much easier today, with internet and all....


my hope is that the BIG BREAK in this 'bush*-gannon' may come from the GAY community in DC....a close-knit family group, the GAY community may well know something about this.....some may recall last year, when the GAY community OUTED a 'reTHUGlican Christian family-value' congressman from Virginia, who was vehemently opposed to GAY Marriage....the congressman called a 'escort service' and several 'hot' phone messages were left on an answering machine, then posted to the WEB for our listening pleasure, and shortly thereafter, the Congressman RESIGNED and was DIVORCED by his SHOCKED wife....

[MADem]

96. Wait a minute--NYT published the Pentagon Papers

...not WAPO. Bradlee and Graham passed because they were concerned about the exposure due to anticipated litigation. They regretted it, even more so when NYT got so many kudos and they were defiant and brave about it. It was why they decided to go after the Watergate thing, once it started getting interesting.

That was the days when reporters competed for stories, when news organizations "took the lead" and others had to eat crow and source them. Back then, there was competition. Real competition, and a striving for EXCELLENCE. It was the era of brave journalists, tilting at evil windmills of power.

Now the media is owned by corporate pigs. They do the equivalent of price fixing with the news, they are all in cahoots, a secret monopoly. The only tilting the reporters do nowadays is when they pick up their bottle of Sam Adams. Lazy bastards!

It's why they suck.

[seventythree]

99. too bad Gary Webb killed himself

[retnavyliberal]

85. I am just old enough....

to remember Watergate because it interrupted my cartoons, and my question/statement may be better in a thread of its own (should a newbie post a full thread? I am thinking I would end up flame-fodder) but with the news the other day that Deep Throat is dying, do you think Woodward will say who Deep was? Who do we think it was? there have been speculations for years that its H.W. but he did not look ill for the Super bowl, so that may answer that one.

[diamond14]

92. Hi retnavyliberal...welcome to DU...glad you joined us......

:hi: :hi: :hi:


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I don't think you can start threads until you have a few more posts...


my cousin was NAVY...when he was drafted, Charlie said he wouldn't KILL anyone, so drafted him anyhow and made him a medic....HM3 Navy - Vietnam...Silver Star, Purple Heart, 19 years old KILLED....his Dad died shortly thereafter from GRIEF...only son.....Charlie saved two Marines lives, and when he went back for a third, he was KILLED....forever young...only a few times have I been able to go to the Vietnam Wall, because it still hurts so much, and I can't go to Arlington, where his body is....we grew up together, and played together as children, sang songs together, laughed and played basketball as teenagers....


Here's a short video for you to watch...BEFORE the bush* Iraqmire, rumsfeld stated that DRAFTEES were just 'sucked into the intake' and were of NO USE to the U.S. Military....and a DUer made this video...

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/pentagoon2.html

[MADem]

97. There are many suspects

...but Cindy Adams wrote recently that Mark Felt, aged 91, is quite ill. Other suspects include Rhenquist (thyroid cancer), Poppy (getting old, but not ill so far as we know), Pat Buchanan (looks fat and healthy to me), Fred Fielding, and many more...

It's looking more likely for Felt, IMHO, simply because of an offhand remark by Woodward, expressing surprise at the fact that he didn't expect DT to live this long.

I'm leaning toward Felt, myself, and a lot of my reasons are contained in this article, well worth reading: http://www.washingtonian.com/people/deepthroat.html

[Me.]

116. Nice Catch On Felt

never even heard of him

[caligirl]

86. We should hire Woodward as an advisor.

[Swamp Rat]

88. Excellent thread! n/t

:kick:

[H2O Man]

114. Memo: June 24, 1969

From HR Haldeman to Patrick J Buchanan:

"The President feels very strongly that we need to develop a 'Letters to the Editor' and 'Calls to Broadcasters" program somewhere in the Administration. He is not sure how this should be set up, but he wants a thorough and efficient Nixon network whose task will be to really raise hell with the people who unfairly take us on, and pour praise on those who take a more productive viewpoint. The President feels this might be something that could be done within the framework of the (Republican) National Committee. .... The President wants you and Tom Huston to take direction of this project...."


This is the first in a series of memos that we need to read very closely.

[H2O Man]

115. Memo #2: July 2, 1969

Buchanan's response:

"The girl at the National Committee would keep on file the names of some dozen to fifty who she could get to write letters on a moment's notice to either the national publications or the networks as soon as word came from the White House. I would hope and expect the word to come from the White House quite infrequently, but I can't guarantee this. If word comes to me, for example, I could get in touch with this girl, who could work immediately writing a half a dozen letters herself and who could phone up a number of her correspondents around the country to do the same."

This operation began almost immediately. "Prove it, Waterman!," you say? Okay! Read the next memo!

[H2O Man]

118. Memo #3: "very confidential"

On 7-21, Buchanan sent a memo marked "very confidential" to Haldeman.

He noted that a letter had been sent "special delivery to the (Washington) Post early this afternoon for which we have a volunteer signer, an old friend of mine from Bethesda."

The letter, signed by John S. Toland, starts: "Your whitewash Monday of the episode involving Teddy Kennedy in which a young woman's life was lost is the worst kind of collaborationalist journalism."

The same day, Buchanan wrote a letter, signed by a "volunteer," which was sent to the WP complaining about Mary McGrory.

This information comes from memos printed in the book "From: the President," by Bruce Oudes.

[Me.]

127. Apparently They've Dusted Off That Program Too

Considering the work-up on Wilson calling him a liar whose wife got him hired, and, the softball questions by Gannon

[lonestarnot]

125. Well I am impatient! Want it now generation! Can we hurry this along?

:evilgrin:

[Me.]

136. The Battle Has Begun

http://www.thebattleforamerica.com/

This takes a few minutes to download but is worth it.

[lonestarnot]

170. Darn couldn't get the link to work for me.... Must be firewall or anti

virus... or spyware doodaddddd

[pacalo]

134. Excellent, excellent thread!

But Nixon had crossed the wrong people. Way too many people, in fact.

I'm still waiting for disgruntled members of the CIA to use its magic against this administration.

[H2O Man]

137. One thing history teaches

is the single thing the CIA does best is undermine and destabilize governments.

[pacalo]

135. (Dupe)

[H2O Man]

139. Memo #4: Feb 5, 1969

To: John Ehrlichman From: Richard Nixon

"To be passed on to the 5 O'clock Group:

I still have not had any progress report on what procedure has been set up to continue on some kind of basis the letters to the editor project and the calls to TV stations.

Two primary purposes would be served by establishing such a procedure. First, it gives a lot of people who were very active in the campaign a continuing responsibility which they would enjoy having. Second, it gives us what Kennedy had in abundance -- a constant representation in letters to the editor columns and a very proper influence on the television commentators. As a starter, some letters thanking those who have written favorable things about the Administration might be in order and expressing agreement with the views they have indicated. In addition, individuals can express their own enthusiasm for the RN crime program in Washington, the RN press conference technique and the Inaugural, and the general performance dince the Inauguration. Later on, letters can be written taking on various columnists and editorialists when they jump on us unfairly.

I do not want a blunderbuss memorandum to go out to hundreds of people on this project, but a discreet and nevertheless effective Nixon Network set up.

Give me a report."

[golden voyages]

140. Tricky Dick would have loved our little "hot military stud"

[H2O Man]

141. Very important!

One of the things I have been hoping to do by putting a few of the old Nixon WH memos on this thread is to show how that administration attempted (in part) to manipulate the media. The goal was to frame certain ideas, and to have them repeated in the media, in order to convince the public to accept the administration's point of view.

Our good friend and teacher Malcolm X used to talk about this type of abuse of the media. He said that the media could make the victim look like a criminal, and the criminal look like the victim. Malcom said that if you believe the network news, you'll find yourself walking with an umbrella when the sun is out, and driving with the top down on your convertible when it's raining. That media can make you doubt your friend, and trust your enemy.

In the case of the White House exposing Valerie Plame, which is being investigated by Patrick Fitzgerald, the criminals are trying to say that they talked to reporters not in any malicious manner, but merely to show that Valerie Plame was behind the sending of her husband to Africa to investigate the "yellow cake" documents. Of course, this is nonsense. Plame could not, would not, and did not have any significant role in the decision to send Joe Wilson to Niger. It was an agency decision based upon his previous service in investigating related issues, which was possible because of his previous service as an ambassador in Africa.

However, the WH is still pushing the "Plame sent him" story to attempt to convince the Grand Jury that their exposing Plame was not intended as a criminal act.

Thus, the use of Gannon takes on a greater significance than it appears to on the surface. The following article in Media Matters shows that "In taped CNN interview Gannon misrepresented Senate Intel report findings on Joe Wilson."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200502120003

[Me.]

143. It Just Never Freakin' Ends

does it? Layers upon layers. And no can tell me they haven't been following the example of those memos with this admin. There are those in the press who must know and remember this and still they aid and abet. What do you think is Woodward's motive for cozying up to *ush, is there a point to it or is it merely self serving? If it is self serving then double shame on him.

Is there any way we can dig up the dirt on Gannon? So far google hasn't yielded much.

[H2O Man]

144. Unless Eliot Abrams

starts calling reporters to expose what agency Gannon actually works for, it's pretty unlikely that the public will find out. I think this falls into the same area as when the Nixon WH tried to get the CIA to warn the FBI to "back off" their investigation. Gannon's true identity will probably be the stuff of speculation for some time to come.

More important is what he did in the past ywo years. The fact that the WH used him to manipulate the news is what we need to concentrate on right now.

[rodeodance]

151. Would that Dem. House Committtee who wants and investigation of

the Plame case be interested in this?

[diamond14]

152. for nixon, once ONE started naming names, it was a broken dyke

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/watergate/

The Noose Tightens

-snips-

McCord was convicted in early 1973, and the four other Watergate burglars entered guilty pleas. Liddy was convicted; Hunt entered a guilty plea. Had the whole thing stopped there, Watergate would simply have been the worst scandal in the history of American presidential politics and an appalling abuse of the powers vested in the Executive Branch.

But of course, it didn't stop there. In fact, it just kept getting worse and worse. Because, behind the scenes, the Nixon White House was in this mess up to their eyeballs, to an extent that was still inconceivable to anyone on the outside.

As the story continued to unfold, it quickly became clear that the "President's Men" had been directly involved in the Plumbers' actions, as McCord started naming names, including top Nixon adviser John Erlichmann and White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman, Nixon lawyer Charles Colson, Nixon campaign chief John Mitchell, deputy campaign manager Jeb Magruder and White House Counsel John Dean.

-------------------------------

In what would later become known as the "Saturday Night Massacre," Nixon decided that as president he didn't have to take all this crap. He instructed Attorney General Elliott Richardson to fire Special Watergate Prosecutor Cox and close the office of the special prosecutor.

Richardson refused to comply with the order and resigned. Nixon then ordered Deputy Attorney General William Ruckleshaus to fire Cox. Ruckleshaus also refused the order, and resigned. Solicitor General (and future Supreme Court nominee) Robert Bork was next in line. Bork complied with the order.

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/watergate/

[tableturner]

156. A crime regardless of their motivations, if they knew she was undercover!

Even if, and it's a big if, and obviously false, Plame did play a part in sending Wilson, even convincing the Grand Jury that their exposing Plame was not intended as a criminal act, does NOT get them off the hook. If they purposely exposed her, knowing that she was undercover, they still commited a crime, regardless of whether or not they knew that what they were doing was a crime, and regardless of their motivations in doing so. They just had to know, when exposing her, that she was undercover.

"We knew that she was undercover when we exposed her as being undercover, but we exposed her not to blow her ability to continue undercover, not to hurt the country, and not to ruin the viability of her undercover operations, but to expose the fact that she played a part in sending Wilson to Africa; and her exposure as an undercover operative, the concomitant harm to the country, and the destruction of the viability of her operations, were incidental to our true motives, and were merely necessary and automatic outgrowths of our real effort, which again, was to expose, for political purposes, the part she played in sending Wilson to Africa", is not a defense. They broke a law MERELY by knowing she was undercover, and then exposing that fact, REGARDLESS of why they did so, and regardless of whether or not they knew that what they were doing was a crime.

"I shot a man and killed him, and killing him was not my main motivation, but was instead a necessary, incidental, and automatic outgrowth of my real desire, which was to keep him from telling the authorities that I am a crook", is the same level of non-exculpatory PSUEDO defense as the Bush people are using to defend themselves against criminal charges.

Edited for grammar.

[H2O Man]

158. Very good.

Very well said.

The WH is trying to say that Plame wasn't currently working as a deep cover operative (definitely not true; that her status as employed by CI was "well know" (a definite lie); and that the WH would have opposed Wilson being sent because of his politics (another outright lie; think of Wilson's relationship with the Bush1 administration from the 1st Gulf War).

Years ago, former heavyweight boxing champion George Foreman told a story about his youth, and about one time when he needed to make up a series of "excuses" to cover up his misbehavior and subsequent lies. "A guilty person is the only one who ever needs excuses." That fits with this case quite well.

[CTyankee]

159. This has been a great thread due to you H2Man

Bravo!

Just a brief P.S. My spouse reminded me last evening that both the House and Senate were controlled by the Dems during Watergate. Remember Peter Rodino in the House and Chairman Sam in the Senate.

So to get to my original point: with that reality, who in government is left to investigate the bad guys? And we don't have the corporate media who are lazy to begin with and now hostile because the Internet bloggers and posters such as us on DU are moving in on their turf. Who will be the "checks and balances" with a system so out of balance? How can we -- you and I and all of us on DU -- break through the "all MIchael Jackson all the time" and the Howie Kurtz's and the NY Times and WaPo and the rest to chop the bad guys down?

I just want to see some justice here. I just want the windmills of justice, if they have to grind slow, grind exceedingly fine.

[H2O Man]

160. Perhaps even more today

"elected" officials will prostitute themselves in any manner in order to stay in office. We need to make sure that this becomes central to the 2006 elections, by making it a central focus today. We need to look carefully at what Buchanan laid out in the memos that I am posting on here: a LTTE campaign, which starts with even 50 people who will write to their local paper. Each week, we get another wave of letters. And through repetition of a simple message, we begin to change -- and it starts ever so slowly -- to change the perception of the people on important issues. Not necessarily "reframing," but running our own commercial messages for peace, reason, the Constition, etc.

[KoKo]

161. The "Missing Years" is the key to Gannon, imho. If another "shoe drops"

it will be about what and whom was Gannon consorting with before the last couple of years when he was "fingered" by the RW Propagandists to be used by Talon News.

If this story dies....then we know that the road ahead will be even harder for us...but if a "whistle blower" comes out this week with more about Gannon then we know "there's HELP" even from sources we DU'ers would not approve of.

Gannon/Gurket didn't just "roll off the "Turnip Truck" to show up at "Press Briefings." He has a "history." Dog Tags on his "hair removed chest" in his Gay Soliciting Pose on AOL site...fact that Media doesn't want to touch why he put that photo out....links back to Reagan/Bush and the Gay Military Escort. It seems a scandal destined to make those ties back to the Moonie Blackmail of G.H.W. Bush's Administration.

I believe the Kossacks had help on this....with tips like WoodStein got...but that might just be my own "wishful" thinking.

But if the Gannon story dies...then we are in deeper trouble than we knew...imho. Of course I might be reading this totally wrong...I'm always TOO Optimistic that GOOD triumps over EVIL...and that WE have help...when in fact we are "spitting into the wind." :shrug:

[CTyankee]

162. I hope it will be over Gannon

but it may be over something else. The snowball effect.

But even now I have an eerie feeling on this post, that we are the lone survivors, everyone else has gone onto other issues and matters. I don't particularly blame them; the MSM hasn't paid that much attention for reasons posted earlier. but we don't have a mechanism, something endemic somehow to our government that will get us free of this. Our founders' deep and abiding belief that we would have true checks and balances has proven false. We have a virtual monarchy (actually more likely an oligarchy)with no sharing of power.

We absolutely must get out of this situation. I am hopeful that Howard Dean will get us ahead down that road. I now see that he is the hope and will lead to some overcoming of the barriers that face us.

[kohodog]

163. The Gannon Plame connection may be the key

Brit Hume and a bunch of MSM say the Gannon press pass is a non issue, but how he got through the screening, and how he saw a classified report or memo on Plame needs to be investigated. It doesn'y seem to be a leap to guess that he was briefed or prepped from the inside, but I have no way of knowing.

The plame case is still alive as evidenced by Gonzales' recusal last week. He wouldn't have bothered if ZFitzgerald wasn't persuing it. An indictment of any Whitehouse official will open the barn door, and all these side connections will maske it that much harder for them to shut the door. A public look at the Air Force One phone logs and internal memos will be fascinating, I'm sure.

In the meantime we should use the Nixon advice and start a campaign. Even letters that don't make it into the paper are read and can give the editors a sense of the pulse of the people.

[H2O Man]

166. Well said.

There many be some "big news" regarding the connection between Gannon and the WH. There is another thread on GD that indicates something significant will be released tomorrow. Let's look at that, then consider the LTTE campaign.

[Me.]

177. William Rivers Pitt: The News Is Broken

<<<snip>>>

"Plame, you will recall, was the deep-cover CIA agent tasked to track the sale and delivery of weapons of mass destruction to terrorists. Plame was outed by two Bush administration officials, who leaked word of Plame's secret career to Bob Novak and several other journalists. They torpedoed her career deliberately as an act of revenge against her husband, Joseph Wilson, who a week prior had exposed Bush's claims of uranium from Niger being used to make bombs in Iraq as a whole lot of smoke and nonsense. The breaking of Plame was also a none-too-subtle warning to any other administration insiders who might have been getting happy feet and were thinking of calling a reporter.


The Plame affair is, in the end, one of the grossest and most despicably deliberate breaches of national security to come down the pike in a long time. The perpetrators have thus far managed to slip the noose because the journalists who received their little tip are standing (correctly, in my opinion) behind the fundamental tenet of journalism: A reporter must not be forced to reveal their sources. Former Illinois U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has been tasked to investigate the matter, and has issued subpoenas to the journalists in question. The names involved are some of the most well-known in the news media.

"Jeff Gannon" has also been subpoenaed by Fitzgerald in the Plame matter. That's where the train leaves the tracks.

According to the Washington Post, "Gannon" did an interview with Joseph Wilson in October of 2003. In that interview, "Gannon" directly referenced a secret internal CIA memo that named Valerie Plame as a covert CIA operative. According to the Post story, "Gannon" was the only reporter in the entire realm of journalism who had seen and read this confidential CIA document. "Gannon" proudly bragged about his role in outing Plame on the forums of the ultra-conservative website FreeRepublic.com, posting under the subtle pseudonym 'Jeff Gannon.'

"Gannon" wasn't just some gomer who got a day pass. He had serious access, as displayed by his knowledge of a CIA memo that no one else had ever heard of or seen. He bragged publicly about playing a key role in an act of treason perpetrated by members of this administration, something he would not have been able to do had he not had friends inside the Bush White House. Scott McClellan claims to not know him. I, for one, think that is a bald-faced lie." cont...


http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0502/S00154.htm

[H2O Man]

165. "Let no one be discouraged

by the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills -- against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence .... Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.

"It is from the numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centres of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance,"

--Robert F. Kennedy; University of Cape Town, South Africa; 6-6-1966

We are not alone. That eerie feeling you get is from some powerful forces sending energy our way. While many people have lost focus, in a relatively short time, they will be back to this issue.

[H2O Man]

164. "In the jungle

there are hunters, and there are those who hunt the hunters." -- Malcolm X.

Just as there were those who were able to expose Valerie Plame's identity to the press, there are absolutely those who can expose Gannon's true identity ..... including what he has been doing since, oh, say 1999!

It will be interesting to see if that is exposed within the next 24 hours.

[kohodog]

167. Do you have any inside info on John Aravosis' report?

Or is there more great stuff percolating under the surface?

While all this is well and good, and bringing this regime down is crucial, I sometimes wonder if we have missed the bigger picture. What does any of this mean if we have destroyed our connection with our mother earth and the Great Mysterious? If we cannot drink the water safely and cannot breathe the air, has our hubris pushed us past the point of no return?

Bush, Gannon, and the rest of us will be fotgotten when the earth shakes and returns to a different state.

[H2O Man]

171. I don't have

any inside information, but I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that I know approximately what it is.

I share your concern on the bigger picture. We're at a strange time in human society. Most Americans are held in physical slavery, but they are surely held in mental bondage. Our society believes the most outrageous of lies. Our culture prizes that which has transitory of absolutely no value, and has almost lost much of the knowledge of what makes us human.

We obviously will have to deal with environmental issues (crises) and soon. But until we take care of the issue of the current administration, which is nothing if not representative of the greedy, selfish, unconscious force of self-destruction, we aren't going to be able to work to clean the water faster than they will pollute it.

[kohodog]

174. I agree, and while I am not a pessimist, I feel it is important in

discussions like this to raise a bit of awareness to what we may be losing and the elders have great insight.

I agree that we need to break this cycle and remove the extremists from positions of power.

[H2O Man]

175. A pessimist

would be one who voted for Bush.

[kohodog]

176. ha, ha...agreed! n/t

[Spazito]

169. There is, in essence, the concrete connection to the...

Watergate scandal in that Karl Rove learned his trade under the tutelage of Donald Segretti and his 'dirty tricks' gang.

This may have already been mentioned and I missed it, if so, sorry for duping.

[H2O Man]

172. Even if it had

been mentioned, it is well worth mentioning again. The most vile people in the Bush2 administration are using the Nixon administration as their model. Some had level 2 positions in the Nixon administration; others were in minor roles as assistants.

[Me.]

178. KicK n/t

[cthrumatrix]

179. they can't keep up with all the lies