Tossing Babies Out Windows In Dubya's America

[Ravenseye]

"Newborn Tossed Out of Car Window"

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/11/newborn.tossed/index.html

So is this what happens when teens can't get abortions? They wrap a plastic bag around their babies head and toss it from their car?

What's worse? The morning after pill or this?

[papau]

1. Hey they slowed to 5 miles an hour - albeit the plastic over the head was

not compassionate conservative - or was it?

[Ravenseye]

4. You're Right

How silly of me. They slowed to 5 mph before they threw their baby whose head was wrapped in a plastic bag out of their car.

See there I go again. A Liberal spinning the truth.

[Hugin]

2. Oh... It had already been born?

Then the Pro-birthers don't care.

It aughta pull itself up from it's booty straps.

[Puglover]

5. Absolutely

it lost it's "fetus" status when it was born.
Jesus, stuff like this makes me sick.

[Hugin]

7. Same here Puglover.... Same here. n/t

[Ravenseye]

6. They're Hypocrites

I'm sure they're horrified by this, but the pro-life people sort of remind me of animal rights activists.

Aren't there more important things to get to first, like say...oh feeding the children we do have? Providing medical coverage to the kids we do have?

If the Pro-Life people spent 1/10th of the time money and energy they do right now trying to make this country better, imagine what they could do. Instead they choose to spend their time outside of planned parenthood harrassing people.

[Hugin]

9. Yeah...

... It's a strange world we live in Ravenseye.

The dead matter more than the living.

If you're like me right now you're worth more dead than alive.

Pretty strange.

[Ravenseye]

10. We are meatbags.

The chemicals in our bodies are worth more than us alive it seems.

It's not even being dead though. It's just fetal state. Conservatives don't give a lick about protecting the living, or the dead. Just the unborn. They'd let people desecrate indian burial grounds, and use all bodies for scientific research if they could. Alive? Well as long as you're productive you're fine, otherwise you should be left to die of your own devices or be executed. But if you're 'unborn'? WE MUST SAVE THEM!

[lonestarnot]

3. OMG This so dispicable... And yes you are right ...this and worse

happens to unwanted children. So sad.

[Maestro]

8. Again, to those that harm children, I ask

why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,
why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,
why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,
why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,
why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,
why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why,why?

You sickening p.o.s.!!!!!

[theboss]

11. How do you know the mother couldn't get an abortion?

I wish people on both sides would stop trying to score cheap political points on tragedies. You have no idea the circumstances surrounding this. You don't know if they are teens or adults. You don't know who threw the kid. You don't know why the child was thrown..

Congratulations, you have now graduate from the Ann Coulter School of Illogical Assumptions.

[agitpropagent9]

13. thank you

jesus, it sickens me when people tie this to politics.

[Ravenseye]

16. The article mentions they were young

"she saw a man and a woman who appeared to be in their late teens or early 20s arguing in a car"

And yes it could have been for other reasons, but many cases of infanticide are caused because of a mother's inability or fear of getting an abortion. For many it's easier to simply kill the child once it's born than going to a clinic.

Plus I didn't specifically imply that these specific people did it because they couldn't get an abortion. I asked a general question. The answer is that when women can't get abortions it often results in either infanticide or abandonment.

As far as scoring cheap political points, if you think the republicans don't stoop to it you're dead wrong, and if you want to take a high minded road that's fine. We're behind now though and we need to score points any way we can.

Whether you go the abortion route, or the fact that in a system with universal health care incidents like these are lower because of expanded mental and prenatal care, take your pick.

If a person has a good job, that doesn't work them more than 40-50 hours a week, health care, a home, a future....they generally don't commit these kinds of crimes. It happens sure. People snap. My point is that the numbers show that things like infanticide and abortions increase under conservative methodologies.

[Ilsa]

27. Alot of "late teens" are still children themselves.

Yes, they should know right from wrong, but they may not be able to think through the consequences of their actions.

No telling what their situation was: abused daughter with a step-father, abused teeage boy, wealthy and unable to cope with "embarassment" of situation, etc. Nothing justifies what they did. But factors like their age and circumstances make it more predictable.

[cattleman22]

18. Well said. n/t

[ultraist]

23. Poverty, drug addiction, and conservative religiousity are big factors

of child abuse. A pre-convetional perspective would dismiss surrounding factors within the system (the society) and view this as an isolated event with no mitigating factors.

A post conventional perspective, allows us to factor in the variables that influenced this couple's behavior. Systems theories take into account the larger enviroment. No human exists totally in a vacuum in our society.

We know that as poverty increases (1.7 million more persons fell into poverty last year) and as punitive attitudes prevail in policy making, child abuse rises. This is a well researched fact.

As long as the Bush paradigm continues to run down our society, we can expect to see more child abuse, more unaddressed drug addiction & untreated mental illness, and more crime in general.

The author of this OP, was right on the money with their comments about Bush's world.

[Kipepeo]

25. Everything is political

politics affects everything.

It is not trying to score a 'cheap political point' to underscore the idea that an anti-choice society (or a society that is unfriendly to people's reproductive health, choices, and education) gives rise to situations like the one in the story.

With Bush continually cutting funding for comprehensive sex-ed in schools, I don't find it illogical to talk about stories like this in the larger context of what is going on politically.

[Dorian Gray]

36. Good point, The Boss...

I appreciate you having to say that. Particularly now that we've learned that this story was nothing more than a hoax in the first place. The very disturbed mother was the "Good Samaritan" who claimed that she rescued the baby.

There are some serious problems out there, but this story has nothing to do with politics.

[Roland99]

12. The article doesn't state the parents were teens

It mentions a black male and white woman that were arguing.

[Ravenseye]

17. Yes it does

I mentions teens or young adults.

[Roland99]

22. "appeared to be in their late teens or early 20s"

The OP mentioning of teens invokes thoughts of 14, 15, 16 year-olds.

[gordianot]

14. I think it is something of a stretch attributing this to abortion. N/T

[ultraist]

24. It's illogical not to consider all of the factors that influence behavior

It's pre-conventional reasoning to dismiss macro variables such as: lack of access to birth control, poverty, oppresssion, damning attitudes that surround abortion, lack of access to abortion, untreated mental illness, etc.

[agitpropagent9]

28. then it is also not illogical

to suggest that the comfort level of society with abortion can devalue life in some people's eyes sufficiently to blur the line between "what's the difference if i throw this baby out the window now or if i had it aborted 6 months ago?"

you know since we're considering all factors that might influence behavior and such...

[ultraist]

30. You are totally twisting my words

Women are called murderers if they seek abortion, does this not discourage some from having abortions?

Mock Systems Theory and "Person in the Environment" all you like. If you think that culture and the greater society does not affect people's behavior, you are gravely mistaken.

It's really absurd when you think about it, that someone could actually say, that cultural influences and societal influences don't exist.

Cultures don't exist? Societal norms and social ills don't exist?

Come on now, think about it.

Some examples of societal factors that contribute to child abuse include: dislocation, racism, sexism, homophobia, poverty and social isolation.

Fact check it!

[WillowTree]

15. The sickest part of this, of course..

....is that, if they didn't want the baby, they could have dropped it off at any police station or hospital and they would have taken it, no questions asked. That's the law now. If I live to be a thousand, I'll never understand why the answer always has to be killing the baby.

[CatBoreal]

20. Yup....

...if you don't want the baby there's no reason to toss it out a car or in a dumpster. Just go to the ER or police.

I don't know why that little fact isn't promoted more. It should be a public health campaign to educate people about that.

*SIGH*

[WillowTree]

26. I couldn't agree more, CatBoreal.

I don't know why that little fact isn't promoted more.

It definitely needs to be publicized..........a lot.

[CornField]

19. I just saw an officer from the area speak on the news about this

This might mean nothing, but as the guy was discussing the one witness -- the person who brought the baby boy to the hospital -- I got a weird feeling. I don't think the police believe her.

[ultraist]

21. OMG! That is HORRIFIC!

Doesn't FL have that law whereby you can anonymously drop off a baby?

Although we don't know the specific facts surrounding this, I think it's safe to infer, that a black couple in a raggedy car may well be facing some difficult things. We do know, that in our society, hunger, oppression, and coercion exist. Desperate people do desperate things. And while this does not excuse their horrendous behavior, it's important to consider how and why people end up in situations such as this and work toward alleviating those social ills.

Nothing occurs in a vacuum. This is not just an isolated event, but happened within a larger system. What these people did, was influenced by the larger system in which they operate.

[gordianot]

29. It is always good to wait for the facts.

See thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1230565

[ultraist]

31. Yes, but it seems as I said, untreated mental illness was a factor!

What else was going on with this mother? Was she poor?

Interesting, that she blamed black people.

[Generator]

32. The story was a hoax!

That's the real state of NEWS in America.

All false.

False news false reporters false president. And crazy ass citizens.

Got it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6952633/

[gordianot]

33. Yes and you don't know who to trust anymore!

[ultraist]

34. The story was inaccurate, but a mother DID abandon her kid illegally

AND she does have an untreated mental illness.

Just because the media jumped the gun before they had all of the facts, doesn't mean the societal factors that contribute to child abuse aren't relevant.

The woman is a child abuser!!!

[Kathryn7]

35. What mother did was not child abuse. It is also legal in Florida to

turn the baby into a firestation or policestation. She shouldn't have lied about it however. Mother did the right thing if she didn't want the child.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. It sounds as if they are getting her mental help.

Which is a good thing. :hi: