Dean Is Losing His Fire

[newsguyatl]

and i don't like it.

as a dean supporter, i will share this critique openly because it concerns me...

the dean =i= want as president is the dean who raised his fist in the air and emphatically declared "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!" at the california democratic party in march. the dean =i= want as president is the dean who stood before thousands in vermont at his declaration speech and shouted vehemently "YOU HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK!" the dean =i= want as president is the dean who doesn't give a rat's ASS about pleasing the pundits, following the polls and letting the RW frame the debate or tone. the dean =i= want as president energizes the base, gives us hope, gives us power, and most importantly, gives us reason to believe in our country again.

dean was good tonight, but not great. his final remarks statement was fair at best. (and that's being nice). he had the opportunity to leave his listeners with a message of hope and determination. a message of "taking our country back." an idea of what his campaign and his supporters are all about. and he didn't.

i'm not saying that dean's fire is gone. but it's stifled. he's succumbed to the criticism of coming across as "angry" and "bad tempered." and accordingly, he's toned it done a lot, too much... and before you say "but he's the frontrunner now, he's gotta tone it down and act more 'presidential'" i say bullshit! this is the democratic primary and he MUST keep that energy ALIVE and thriving to win the base! after all, THAT'S what got him where he is today. show me that anger again doctor! =i'm= angry! 9 million jobless folks are angry! half this country is angry! the democratic base is angry! DEAN'S anger is painfully justified and he MUST not minify or suffocate it to please the mainstream and his political opponents. not now.

it really, really sickens me to see all the other candidates (these washington insiders mostly) steal dean's lines, his campaign ideas, and his passion. THEY'RE the ones NOW saying things DEAN was saying MONTHS ago, when most of them were stuck up bush's corporate ass. dean MUST NOT allow this to happen. he MUST NOT succumb to right wing (even mainstream) criticism. he MUST be himself, the man who's been so successful at giving us reason to believe again, at giving us hope. he CANNOT and MUST NOT allow others to dictate his energy and passion and charisma. ((as my mom always told me, "they just pick on you because they're jealous and want to be like you."))


so this is NOT a negative message, but rather an early rallying cry to dean. DON'T LOSE YOUR PASSION. DON'T LOSE YOUR FIRE. they're ALL watching YOU! you must TAKE BACK that ENERGY and do with it what you've done so far, and that is LEAD!

you've got an army behind you in grassroots that's growing by the day. know that we'll be with you the entire way to the white house. but remember: we want to be behind a leader with fire in his eyes and passion in his soul, the leader we all know you are.

[pasadenaboy]

1. its there when he needs it

If you yell all the time, people quit paying attention when you yell.

He's smart to pace himself and his message.

[zeemike]

10. I agree

He is a smart man and he is doing it the right way.

[okieinpain]

18. exactly. slow it down some, you know expecting him to come

out swinging. so why not give them something different. all of these folks that are hearing about dean being some screaming looney, tune in and see this calm person. makes the talking heads look stupid, and gets him some props at the same time.

by the way, we're looking at the debate and my son (16) walks in and goes "oh my god, sharpton is running for president". I guess that kinda proves that 70% of the people don't know who's running for president, because I damn sure know that I've talked about sharpton running for president. but some how my son doesn't have a clue, I know he's a sixteen year old. but how can anyone not know that sharpton is running for president.

[bitchkitty]

27. At 16? Easy -

although there are some awesome, articulate and intelligent teens that post on DU, for the most part kids that age don't notice much that goes on outside their universe.

[pruner]

29. 16's old

Kreiss-Tomkins maintains a database of the more than 500 online discussion groups focused on Dean, and manages a private online discussion of the leaders of all these groups. He has emerged as a key grass-roots organizer for Dean. He says he was motivated to work for Dean because "I believe our country is in a dire state. The economy is in the dumps, we're attacking countries, I believe healthcare needs to be improved, the environment is horrible horrible horrible."

But Kreiss-Tomkins keeps his love for Dean mostly secret from his friends, and he won't be voting for Dean anytime soon. That's because he's 14 years old -- a high-school freshman who, when not busying himself with politics, spends much of his time practicing oboe, cello, acoustic bass and piano. "My social image is quite a bit different," he says. But Dean's campaign allows him to contribute a lot of effort from the privacy of his own room. "Online you can work out for him to your heart's content," he says.

http://salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/09/dean_outreach/index.html

[Cha]

2. Please post this on the blogforamerica!

http://www.blogforamerica.com

[FubarFly]

3. Dean is more measured in the debates than on the stump.

Nothing wrong with that.

I suggest you go to the website and listen to one of his more recent speeches. The fire is still there. A debate with eight other people may not be the proper format for him to show it.

[spooky3]

6. I'm a moderate

and he's winning me over more and more as this goes along. I listen better when I'm getting a calm, rational message.

[newsguyatl]

14. nice

good to hear!


i'm NOT a moderate (not in the least) so maybe that's why it concerns me so much...


but nonetheless, i'm very happy to hear he's winning you over. let's hope the trend continues.

[CMT]

4. I don't think so

I feel he did a strong job during the debate. I think the decision to tone down in debates is a strategic move and I'm not sure if it is a good one or not. I think he is still coming across well and on the stump he is still very exciting. I think for some reason he and his strategists believe on tv in a debate setting such as this one and the last that he needs to appear a bit more subdued or "presidential".

[RevolutionStartsNow]

5. I agree, but I don't worry

I just saw him in person in San Jose, and he was on fire...

I think he is shying away from the fiery stuff on the national TV spots, because he was being branded "short-fused" and all that. Meanwhile many of the others are now yelling and screaming. And Dean is probably hoping this will set him apart from the pack.

I don't know, I tend to agree with you, we need some fire back, but I know it's not gone from the man, just the message.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. I must say it really sickens me to see

so many here believing things like: all the other candidates steal Dean's lines, his campaign ideas, and his passion.

:wtf: you really believe that?

[Cha]

15. Sorry you are so sick.

[maggrwaggr]

22. yes, Dean is leading and they're following

Gephardt is the best example, yelling over and over "this president is a miserable failure!"

He sure wasn't doing that until Dean started getting serious numbers.

They're all bashing Bush now, a la Dean, because Dean is the front runner. The leader.

Nobody wanted to "offend" anyone until Dean caught fire. Now they're all playing catch-up.

Sorry, but it's the truth.

[TLM]

26. Yes, did you hear Kerry repeat Dean's special ed funding line.

Almost word for word...



Now I know Kerry supports fully funding special ed, and has for years, as Dean has as well... however this is the first I've heard of the issue from Kerry in the debates. And he used almost the exact phrasing Dean used in the first debates.

In fact I got the feeling that all the candidates up there, save for CMB and Sharpton, were simply restating things that Dean and Kucinich had said in the previous debates.

[shugah]

8. thank you

i'm not a dean guy, or even necessarily an anyone guy. i watched dean this eve at the debate, and i wonder about the fire he instills. i didn't see it. did you?

=i=

[WilliamPitt]

9. He's the frontrunner

Frontrunner starts howling from the debate podium and people write him off as "shrill." See: Kucinich. Dean is not going to win this thing if the media is allowed to paint him into the 'too liberal' corner they've been trying to paint him in. His main strength as a national candidate is that he is a compromise candidate. Being staid and steady and having the facts plays to this huge strength. Yelling does not.

Besides, debates are not the place to do that.

Dean is the frontrunner. He's allowed to act like it. Underdogs have to yell. Look at Bush. When was the last time he raised his voice? He doesn't have to.

[newsguyatl]

12. i'm not talking so much

about "yelling" (and certainly not saying he should act in ANYWAY like kucinich has acted recently)... i'm talking more about a trend i've noticed in the last month or so, a dulling of that passion that really bothers me. don't get me wrong, i KNOW it's still there in him, his stump speeches are great, but i'm just afraid he and his advisors are trying to mollify the pundits too much. yes, you're right, a debate isn't necessarily the place for "fist in the air" type of speaking. BUT it IS a place to show passion, determinination and to give hope to your listeners. at the very least, in your final statements, really close the deal there, leaving a powerful message. dean didn't do that tonight, and i don't know why. i have faith he and his advisors are doing the right thing... i just don't want to see that passion killed off.

[maggrwaggr]

25. give the guy a break, he's gotta pace himself

if he was that full of fire 24 hours a day, he'd have an ulcer or a breakdown a la Howard Beale.

Tonight he was looking like he was enjoying himself, he seemed to be loosening up in front of the cameras and I really appreciated that.

I like to see the guy looking happy now and then.

His concluding statement was pretty lame, however. I was pretty disappointed. I know what he meant and I like it, he may have screwed up the delivery. I'm not sure. It kind of fell with a heavy THUD.

[Upfront]

13. Dang

I agree with all of you, now what? I would like a touch more fire out of Dean, but he is doing so good over all, I will trust his judgement. Ending statement could have been stronger, but he handled holy Joe nicely.

[Rose Siding]

11. He'd look stupid coming in at rally strength

in a debate setting. He addressed 4000 last night and had them in a lather. We should keep an eye out for any links to that.

I jones for the rally level of energy too, believe me, but it is not always appropriate.

Tonight he was forthright, substantive and determined. All of that came through. These debates are like the paperwork of the campaign. The best case scenario is to get through them by making sense and not shooting yourself in the foot.

[Cha]

16. "In a lather"? LOL!

[TLM]

17. I agree that Dean didn't come out full force... but i think that's smart.

At this point Dean is way ahead, with 5 months to go. By playing low key tonight he did a few things I think will help him. He really was relaxed and not in high energy stump mode.

That does two good things, first it saves him energy. He's got 5 more months and he is in the lead... and Dean knows guys like Lieberman and Kerry are itching to attack him like Lieberman did tonight. By being very low key, Dean really drew Lieberman out when he made his attack, and the effect was to make Lieberman look bad. While Dean was clearly not the short tempered bully that they want to paint him as.

Secondly, right now I think Dean has beaten the other candidates... unless Dean seriously screws up, he has the momentum to win the nomination. I think at this point he's already debating Bush. He's focusing on skills to debate Bush, not the other dems. Listen to his answers... he's really getting tight in being able to drop that answer in just under the time limit and it is all directed at Bush, while the other guys are nipping at each other and at Dean.

So I think it was a good move for Dean to play this in a bit more low key way. I don't think it hurt him at all.

[newsguyatl]

20. good points TLM

thanks for that.

i hope folks here don't see this as criticism... it's just more concern on my part, that's all.

thanks for your thoughts on it.

[TLM]

30. I know what you mean... I was disapointed not to see that fire.

I'm used to seeing a lot more, but I also understand that when you try to get the fire into 1 minute time limits, it just comes off as shrill and often presents an unclear and confused message.

Debates are not rally's. The goal of a debate is not to get the audience fired up, but to get your points across as simply and clearly as possible, which Dean did very well.

Even when Lieberman attacked him, Dean was very simple and clear that he supports Israel, but that doesn't mean being biased in our roll as a peace broker there in the middle east. I think Lieberman came across like he was attacking the idea of treating the Palestinians as equals in the peace process and he seemed to be acting like asking Israel to make any concessions regarding settlements and the west bank is violating our relationship with Israel.

That hurt Joe much more than it hurt Dean.

[CentristDemocrat]

19. He's adjusting to being the frontrunner.

Everybody's after him.

[hedgetrimmer]

21. the fire within, the fire with-out, dean is a bon-fire, a volcano

erupting at the drop of a dollar, exploding into flames in the heartland, get your weinies out, grab some marshmellows there is another dean firestorm brewing... another catalyst of economic overload, another belly burning song selection, another astounding meet-up, another i am on fire drop and roll dean style dance groove-a-delic....

[hedgetrimmer]

32. dean is so full of combustion that when he loses he wins

you can not extinguish the deanster, you can not pull the drop and roll, you can not drop a marshmellow into the blaze that is dean and expect burnt sugar... dean is the sugar daddy, the mac-o-song-pickers... the debate burning kerry brain filling... the burn baby burn... we don't need any water let the m*th*r f*ck*r burn....

[Evanstondem]

23. The Fire's Still There

I saw and heard plenty of passion in Dean's response to W's Sunday night speech, but I don't believe that he should be in attack mode all of the time. The debates are a good venue for a more balanced approach.

[Woodstock]

24. Wrong.

He's still got the fire. Where have you been?

The crowd at College Park, MD last night was blazing. Even after he left, it took a while for the flames to go out.

He's always going to do better at speeches than debates. But even so, he's doing fine in the debates.

And remember, once he's our nominee - it's only Shrub he goes up against. No brainer. Literally.

[newsguyatl]

33. i never said he had no fire

in his stumps

re-read my posts...

[Woodstock]

35. But you implied it with your thread title.

And that's what most of the detractors go by. You might consider wording your thread titles to more accurately reflect your opinion, then?

Re-read MY post, please. He's always going to be better at exuding passionate fire on stump speeches than debates. Which is as it should be.

I agree with what Will Pitt said above. A debate is not the place to wave your hands around and shout. He's got to be measured - one false move at these things can be disastrous. Much of the attention right now is focused on him, and they are ready to pounce.

Compared to the rest of the field, he's been doing fine. And compared to his ultimate debate challenger, he could be asleeep and do better.

[fabius]

28. Lieberman keeps giving him points.

Every time Dean defends himself cooly against Lieberman's rants he gains in stature.

Still, he needs a new closing statement. Work on some new material Howard.

[quaker bill]

31. Not so fast

Dean only looked weaker by comparison. All of the rest of them are following his lead and trying to be a bit louder than him. (noted exceptions are Kucinich and Sharpton, who have also been angry all along)

The anger Gebhardt was expressing seemed real, and Kerry has amped it up as well. Their problem is that it still seems a little hollow when they gave GWB the blank check for war.

I enjoyed Sharpton's "taking you to the dance" bit, not terribly presidential, but colorful and on point for the audience.

Graham came out of his shell and he added some good stuff to the mix.

With the problems Bush has made and will continue making, we probably need all 9 of them working full time over the next 4 years to fix it.

Let's pick one or two of them and sign the rest of them up for cabinet positions.

[newyawker99]

34. Hi quaker bill!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wndycty]

36. Constructive point. . .

. . .and for purposes of full disclosure I am an ardent Clark supporter, but I am also part of the Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark camp so hopefully this will be viewed as a oncerned observation not a bash.

I think Dean peaked too early. There is a lot to be said about Any Card's "you don't introduce a new product before Labor Day. . ." comment. I loved the Dean "Sleepless. . ." tour but if I could change one thing about it, I would have done it after Labor Day.

[PAMod]

37. The candidate needs fire on the stump, calm gravitas otherwise

The problem is not Dean's fire, or perceived lack thereof, it is these debates. How can you have a thoughtful discussion of issues in a pep rally environment?

If a candidate looks angry and shouts, it stirs up the faithful, but looks ridiculous to anyone trying to become informed, if he looks calm and in control, it looks boring and uninspired to the faithful, but (if done right) Presidential to anyone in doubt.