Driver's License Security and Modernization Act (H.R.368)

[icymist]

I've heard on a talk radio show, about a hour ago, that this has passed the House and is being sent to the Senate. Is this true? Is this a back door to a National I. D. card?

[icymist]

1. Here's a link to the Clerks office....

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

This has the full text of this bill, but it dosen't say that it passed the house.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yes and it pased on a 261-161

they are out of control

Now for the freepers lucking, how long until they come to confiscate YOUR guns?

[icymist]

3. Exactly!

eom

[napi21]

4. Are you sure this isn't HR 418?

That's the bill regarding drivers licenses, etc. I don't think it passed yet, and there are disseenting Pubs.

[icymist]

5. H.R. 418 prevents terrorists from gaining asylum.

I'm pretty sure the Drivers Lincense is H.R.368. Click my link (above).

[icymist]

14. You're right, It's H.R. 418.

A lot of the sections from H.R.368 were added to this. Here's a link to H.R. 418:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:1:./temp/~c109bctMhj:e3296:

It took me a while to read through it and now, I'm guessing, that's why I couldn't find that it's status as being passed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Accordign to a friend, she forwarded the CNET story

it did, just trying to track down the link

Here is what the rules permit me to post

House backs major shift to electronic IDs
Published: February 10, 2005, 5:46 PM PST
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

TrackBack Print E-mail TalkBack
The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses.

Under the rules, federal employees would reject licenses or identity cards that don't comply, which could curb Americans' access to airplanes, trains, national parks, federal courthouses and other areas controlled by the federal government. The bill was approved by a 261-161 vote.

The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with drafting the details of the regulation.


Republican politicians argued that the new rules were necessary to thwart terrorists, saying that four of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers possessed valid state-issued driver's licenses. "When I get on an airplane and someone shows ID, I'd like to be sure they are who they say they are," said Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican, during a floor debate that started Wednesday.

http://news.com.com/House+approves+electronic+ID+cards/2100-1028_3-5571898.html

[Spacejet]

6. We already HAVE a national ID!

Do you REALLY believe it makes any difference to the feds if they are dealing with a drivers license from TX as opposed to NY? If so that's shockingly naive. The only difference is that it takes 2 seconds to select TX instead of NY on the computer.

The ONLY difference a national ID would make is

1. It looks different to you. (to a computer and the government it doesn't mean a damn if it's state specific or national specific)

and

2. Cops will not have to wonder if the out of state license is legit on face.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Read the CNET story, this IS a national ID

[Spacejet]

10. And my point is

it DOESN'T MATTER. This is another rove distraction to keep our eyes off the ball - which right now is the homeland security head being made above the law.

National or state ID makes NO difference to the government. It will effect us ZERO. If we all had 50 state licenses or one national one means nothing. The government STILL gets ALL the information just the same in either case.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. No they don't we don't have a national database of

260 million americans, We have a national database of criminals, which is NOT the whole population.

you think this does not matter, move along nothing to see here

[Spacejet]

13. Are you for real?

The database may be in 50 different states, but the feds have FULL ACCESS TO ALL OF THEM. And with a computer it takes SECONDS to access all of them. And that doesn't extend to only drivers licenses. They have instant access to ANY record you have with them. Be it social security to your tax forms.

This is like me putting 50 computers in my house with different info on each, networking them, and then being able to access all 50 instantly from a single one.

As opposed to putting all the info on one computer. Point being - it doesn't matter. I have the same access to the info be it on one computer or 50.

If you don't think the government has a national database on everyone already then please PM me so I can tell you about a bridge I have for sale.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yep here is Ron Paul on this

By the way ntohing to see here, move along

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS

BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 9, 2005


HR 418: A National ID Bill Masquerading as Immigration Reform


Mr. Speaker:


I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to
make us safer from terrorists who may sneak

into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that
these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make
us more secure.


It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much
less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer
desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing
what is uniquely American: Our Constitutionally Protected Liberty.


What is wrong with this bill?


The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states
include certain minimum identification standards

on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to
impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of
Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.


Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However,
any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens.


The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the
federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to
fly or to take a train.


In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist.
It is absurd to call this voluntary.


Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a
national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government
should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of
identification such as driver’s licenses.”


So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that
this is not a national ID.


This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly
personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of
birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly
other characteristics.


What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in
the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of
sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and
Mexico!


This bill could have a chilling effect on the exercise of our
constitutionally guaranteed rights.


It re-defines "terrorism" in broad new terms that could well include members
of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups, or other such groups as
determined by whoever is in power at the time.


There are no prohibitions against including such information in the database
as information about a person’s exercise of First Amendment rights or about a
person’s appearance on a registry of firearms owners.


This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to
expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such
biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even
Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such
technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the
governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of
the day and night.


There are no limits on what happens to the database of sensitive information
on Americans once it leaves the United States for Canada and Mexico - or
perhaps other countries.


Who is to stop a corrupt foreign government official from selling or giving
this information to human traffickers or even terrorists? Will this uncertainty
make us feel safer?


What will all of this mean for us?


When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our
driver’s license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card.
We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric
information, information which is connected to a national and international
database.


H.R. 418 does nothing to solve the growing threat to national security posed
by people who are already in the U.S. illegally. Instead, H.R. 418 states what
we already know: that certain people here illegally are "deportable." But it
does nothing to mandate deportation.


Although Congress funded an additional 2,000 border guards last year, the
administration has announced that it will only ask for an additional 210 guards.


Why are we not pursuing these avenues as a way of safeguarding our country?
Why are we punishing Americans by taking away their freedoms instead of making
life more difficult for those who would enter our country illegally?


H.R. 418 does what legislation restricting firearm ownership does. It
punishes law-abiding citizens. Criminals will ignore it. H.R. 418 offers us a false
sense of greater security at the cost of taking a gigantic step toward making
America a police state.


I urge my colleagues to vote “NO” on the REAL ID Act of 2005.

[Spacejet]

17. Oh wow Ron Paul

Great source there. A libertarian nut job. While he opposes the repubs in some instances, I would STRONGLY suggest you take a look at some of the absolute insane shit he has said in the past.

BTW - Rove thanks you. This is why we keep getting our asses handed to us. Instead of saying something about the REAL issue of the day (bush bought journalists and homeland security being made above the constitution) we focus on the handed out Rove shit of "national IDs" which actually means nothing. Rove has an easy job I can see.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. It is Clinton's Faul

It is Clinton' Fault

Move along nothign to see here... they have done this for years, nothign to see here, it is all Karl Rove, all of this is the fault of Karl Rove

Gee, reminds me of the Clinton hating crowd

[Spacejet]

28. WTF?

Just watch. National IDs will drop off the radar the SECOND fatherland security passes just like so many other rove moves. Hope you can be happy knowing you and others helped to be part of the distraction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Karl Rove is a magician wiht powers not seen since the time of

Merlin the great



He sets EVERTHING, incluidng the release of somethign liek this ON A FRIDAY...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Yes he runs the department of truth

but he is NOT a magician nor does he control the bills introduced in Congress, or voted in Congress

You give karl far mroe power than he acutally has... granted he has a lot of power running the depratment of thruth, but this particular news, he did not make... and the patetrn is, anything they don't want the people to know off, it is released on Friday... and that is karl... but not in particular national IDs, just release it on a friday after the enws cycle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Oh and as to tthe bridge go for it, try to sell it

I have one for you, it has a shreder and it includes a new copy of the Bill of Rights... the original was burned a while ago

[Spacejet]

19. If you care about the bill of rights

why are you focusing on this rove distraction instead of homeland security being made above the constitution - which, in case you didn't realize, is a HELL of a lot more significant than "national IDs".

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. If you cannot see them

as not only related but part of a continuum is not my problem

This is nto a rovian distraction... wanna bet this did not happen since it will not make the stenography corp? NOTHING that they want to do to destroy the bill of rights makes it to the stenography corp

[Spacejet]

24. Christ almighty

Do you realize if the fatherland security act passes national IDs won't mean a damn thing??? The agenda is to get fatherland security ABOVE THE LAW. Then it won't matter if national ID legislatition is passed - because they can just fu**ing decree it. I can assure you bushco doesn't give a damn about national IDs. They just want this new fatherland act passed. As soon as it does Rove will pull the national ID story, and you'll be wondering (like everyone else who's taking the bait) what the hell happened.

If we were in a plane crashing to our death I have a feeling I'd be looking for the parachutes and you'd be looking for some ear plugs because it's too loud.

You need to learn how to prioritize.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Yuo can only hold one thought in yuor head

ALL OF THIS SHIT IS RELEVANT... DO YOU GET IT NOW OR DO YOU NEED IT SPELLED OUT?

A-L-L O-F T-H-I-S S-H-I-T I-S R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T

And for christ sake if you cannot see how all of this IS CONNECTED that is not my damn fault.

Now it is rove's fault and it is a distraction say it often enough, he also paid Kim Jun Il to tell us he had nukes and next thing we know, he will be credited for peace around the world, all hail to the great magician Karl Rove

[Spacejet]

27. YES it connects

But what YOU don't get is that bushco DOESN'T CARE about national IDs. Right now they are trying to get fatherland security set up. PERIOD.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. And the nationial ID is PART OF IT

or do yuo think they will be able to enforce the fear on the sheep without it?

It will also help them to round up the guns when they need to.

It will help them identify and FOLLOW the disidents in this country.

It will help them do many a things that no RFID in the card would make hard to do.

So this is why it is important

but move along and hold ONE THOUGHT in your head... Fatherland Security needs a good and reliable National ID system, one with biometrics and RFID... it makes things oh so easy...

But you are right, karl Rove is a genios and he threw this on a FRIDAY NO LESS, and close to the end of the news cycle on the East Coast.

[Spacejet]

32. BS

National IDs will do NOTHING they can't do already. Now, making homeland security above the law will enable them to do a HELL of a lot more than what they can do now.

"It will also help them to round up the guns when they need to."

Right, because the lists of registered gun owners are linked specifically to IDs. Not like there's a seperate list you could check or anything.

"It will help them identify and FOLLOW the disidents in this country."

Right. They can't do that now.

"It will help them do many a things that no RFID in the card would make hard to do"

Uh huh. Because you couldn't destroy it. Obviously you can't get your hands on a magnet huh?

Glad to see you've been reading up on the Rove talking points for national IDs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Glad you cannot see how this will make it so much easier

by the way Grover Norquist sends his regards to you

[Spacejet]

34. Care to PROVE how it will make it easier?

Exactly WHAT could they do with it that they can't do now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. RDIDs allow the police to track you by using GPS

and no need to actually put a tracker on your vehicle. They will know EXACTLY where you are as these thigns cannot be turned off as your Cell Phone can. Morover these are MANDATORY, not like a cell phone that yuob can choose to have or not.

That is how they make it easier

At a demonstration the police can have a record of exactly who was there without even aproacihing or taking photos...

As I said, you cannot see it, I can clearly...

[Spacejet]

37. Hmmm

"RDIDs allow the police "

Nothing a $5 magnet can't solve.

Got anything else?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. You really are in denial

Have a good life,

If you cannot think how they can solve that problem it ain't my problem

Have a good life

[icymist]

18. If creating a National ID were so easy as to already exist....

then tell me why our Congress is pushing through such a thing so fast. Don't tell me that it's another Carl Rove trick, either. That's too easy of an answer and is almost as blind as the Re-thugs blaming everything on Clinton.

[Spacejet]

20. Gee

Could it be because at the same time they are pushing through legislation making homeland security completely above the law, and rove knows people like you will focus on national IDs in the mean time if he puts it out there? Of course instead of talking about that half our people are off talking about the evil national IDs.

And congress isn't rushing national IDs. Are you new to politics? This shit has been suggested the past ten years off and on. Hell, even last year it was brought up a lot. Taking years isn't exactly "fast".

[icymist]

23. Get real, man! The Government is beginning to take away State's rights.

We've fought an entire Civil War over States rights. Attacking me as 'people like you' and if I'm new to politics isn't the issue here. King George is taking away more of the liberties of the people in our great nation and political positioning - type people allow that to happen.

[Spacejet]

26. And that's a bad thing?

I for one am glad the "states rights" crowd lost. Otherwise we'd still have segregated schools in Alabama. (you know they just voted NOT to remove segregation language from their constitution, don't you?)

Now - let me make this clear to you. The fascist desires of bushco have NOTHING to do with "states rights". You're talking about "states rights" when we should be talking about bushcos agenda of absolute FASCISM. Once again, you don't have your eyes on the ball. This is NOT about states rights with these people, it's about something far more sinister.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. On taht we agree and the agenda is spelled

in PNAC

[icymist]

40. I agree with you that this is about something far more sinister.

The analogy to the Civil War was the best I could find in our countries limited history. BTW, Lincoln never went to war to free the slaves, but to preserve the Union. This bill that just passed the House....this is a threat to this country and the very Constitution which granted the States the very Rights. Doing away with States Rights is another brick on the road to Despotism.

[icymist]

9. Not necessarily.

At the moment, the States have the right to determine to whom it may grant a drivers license. Under the new Federal license, individual state must meet the Federal guidelines if it is to be recognized. This bill is taking away a right that belongs to the individual States.

[Spacejet]

11. States will still be able to do that

they will just have to make it look a certain way.