In a nutshell, what is Scientology's deal?

[KurtNYC]

They are encamped in the NYC subway lately and are offering a free "Stress Test." I warned someone they approached that they were a cult and that they were probably using the stress test as a away to get you talking about all that is wrong in your life.

So one of the cult people comes over to get me away from their prospect. She forced a laugh and the prospect sat down. I walked on.

But I just did a Google on them and got lots of creepy details but not the big picture. I most interested in the big picture mechanics of how the cult works - recruiting, fund raising and retention.

[shoelace414]

1. "Cult" of yesterday is religion of today.

but I have no idea about them

[SmokingJacket]

5. Actually, you can differentiate between a religion and a cult...

Check out Rick Ross on the subject. www.rickross.com

Mostly he discusses what makes a cult "destructive" rather than constructive -- has to do with emphasis on recruiting, the charismatic leader, whether they offer the only "true way," and whether they isolate members.

Interesting stuff!

[shoelace414]

10. I think you described the LDS church

(mormons)

[SmokingJacket]

22. No comment! nt

[shoelace414]

25. I guess I don't have a point other than

religion vs cult is in the eye of the beholder.

[Az]

28. James Randi was invited to speak to a group about deprogramming

victims of various cults. He gave his speach and was applauded by the mostly religious crowd present. When he opened the meeting up to questions someone asked him how to distinguish between a cult and a religion he replied, "I don't".

Cult status really is a sort of prejudice. Its sort of like what anthropologists found when they went looking for canabalistic tribes. There were always rumors of some tribe being canabalistic but it was always some other tribe. Whenever they went and asked the tribe indicated it was always someone else.

[SmokingJacket]

39. I do distinguish, but I admit the line is fuzzy. nt

[Az]

44. I am willing to bet you don't belong to a cult n/t

[meegbear]

Here's a write-up on the basics of it ....

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_134.html

[KurtNYC]

13. perfect - thanks

I had earlier come across this and stories of their battles with the government of Sweden who refused to honor their copyrights (apparently you have to be sufficiently brainwashed AND pay big bucks to see certain church texts):

The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already.

Freaky indeed.

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/scientology.htm

[RT Atlanta]

2. Wondered myself....

Big into "audits" whatever the hell those are. Apparently needed to get to the higher levels of enlightement within their establishment - also costly the higher you go. Ask Travolta and Cruise.

[tabasco]

3. They think people are computers.

A lot of gullible people believe them.

[htuttle]

4. Space alien ghosts, and a fellow named Xenu

Seriously. After you spend the money and get all the brainwashing, the BIG SECRET of Scientology is that they believe normal folks (ie., 'non-clears' or whatever they call us) are possessed by the ghosts of numerous alien criminals (or 'Body Thetans' in their terms).

Scientology's 'method's seek to 'clear' people of those alien spirits.

Here's one link that gives the rundown:
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/xenu-space-aliens.htm

The story isn't really even good science fiction. I mean, spaceships that look like DC-8's, frozen alien bodies, H-Bombs. Blah....

[jdj]

47. this is what John Travolta is into.

creepy. And he seems so normal otherwise.

[Melodybe]

6. They are a cult

They cleanse you for $100 a pop, the cleansing is where they hook you up to a lie detector test and make you tell them all of the most horrible things you have done in your life.

If you ever want to leave then they blackmail you. Scientology is bad bad bad, it is the one religion on Earth that makes me glad their are fundies.

You bascially pay for enlightenment, the more money you pay the higher level you get to be, with higher levels come special magical powers like being able to kill people with your mind and telekinetics.

The movie Battleship Earth is suppose to be a literal history of human beings.

Xenu, some magical alien, came to earth millions of years ago and stuffed all humans into a volcano, and then spit then all back out. It is some really crazy stuff.

L. Ron Hubbard was a disgusting SOB that bet $100 that he could sucessfully start a religion based on his science fiction books. He won the bet and now Scienetology is one of the creepiest and most convoluted religions on Earth.

One of my friends made the mistake of being lured by the scientologists, they are bad bad bad.

Their grip on Tom Cruise and John Travolta is very frightening.

[KurtNYC]

16. I have heard that Cruise and Travolta

are caught up in the blackmail scheme because in part, as the rumours go, they are gay and confessed many things during audits.

[AllegroRondo]

19. The bet with Robert Heinlein

was that Hubbard could make $1 million tax free by starting a religion.

There seems to be some truth to the rumor
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/scientology/start.a.religion.html

[Dorian Gray]

42. Sadly,

one of my friends has also been lured into the religion. He's a weird duck. Well, that's not entirely true. But, he'll drop bombs on some of our unsuspecting friends when they're drunk about joining him for "session."

[devilgrrl]

7. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

is what it's all about.

[Zebulon]

8. In a nutshell...

"You're messed up. Give me $20,000, and I'll tell you you're okay."

[paineinthearse]

9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

[Dogmudgeon]

11. In the shell of a nut?

A combination of Mahayana Buddhist lore, paleo-conservative "Personal Responsibility" pop philosophy, and a very simplified, formalized Socratic teaching methodology.

In general, the theories and practices behind it are not particularly onerous. The origanization that "delivers" it is the real problem -- it's highly authoritarian and audacious in its use of secular power.

Cruise and Travolta are not treated like the rank-and-file in the Church of Scientology -- they are celebrities and are treated far better. The non-celebrity in Scientology is called upon to strict obedience and prompt performance of all orders.

A lot of the anti-Scientology stuff on the web, though, is just as wacky as the stuff from the group itself. It's a difficult "nut" to crack into either way.

--p!

[Zebulon]

12. Another good site:

Operation Clambake: The Inner Secrets of Scientology.

http://www.xenu.net/

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

46. No, that's not "Another good site"...

... it's one of the best sites (IMO). Not only do they have excellent material, but they link to a wide variety of other resources. They have also fought the CoS a lot and still prevail. Thank you for posting that link.

If anyone wants to read a very thorough history of Hubbard and Scientology, I highly recommend either The Hubbard is Bare or Bare-Faced Messiah (both on-line at that site).

It's all about the clams, baby.

[rman]

14. founded by a former SF writer,

the courts in Germany decided it's not a religion.

one interesting resource on the matter:
the writer has been sued by The Church of Scientology several times for copyright issues, and won every time.
focusing on the famous "Fishman Affidavit"
www.spaink.net/fishman/home.html

<snip>

"The Church of Scientology (or: CoS; or: Co$, as some of their opponents call it) sells its followers expensive courses which, if students study them carefully, are supposed to set them free ('clear' them). A former Scientology member, Steven Fishman, was brought before court because he committed several crimes in order to get the money to pay for these courses. Scientology urged him to get the money any which way he could. According to Fishman, they also assigned him to kill somebody, and failing that, ordered him to commit suicide. In an interview for Time Magazine, Fishman relayed those stories and blamed Scientology for his crimes. Scientology sued him for slander."

"When Fishman was then brought to court, he used parts of Scientology-documents to prove he had been brainwashed by the Church. These Scientology documents thereby became public material: anybody could go to the court library and read them. The Church, fearing that its sacred secrets would be revealed..."

<more>

[KurtNYC]

23. Wow -

That site has the goods.

A little spooky that our government has not seen fit to crack down on these guys even after other governments have.

[DrWeird]

15. Eh, it's your standard organized religion.

Maybe a little more transparent.

[Stephanie]

17. That's what I say to them every day in Grand Central

them: Would you like a free stress test?

me: No, I don't want to join your CULT.

I don't know why it annoys me so much. Not as bad as the Falun Gong people, but still, it's just irritating.

[KurtNYC]

21. A grade school friend wound up in the Children of God cult

and it breaks my heart to see people getting sucked into this crap.

[Hissyspit]

18. Money - They make a lot of money; and they protect their ability to do it

There was a Time Magazine expose a reporter did around, I wanna say, 1992-1, I think (back when they did that kind of thing). Can check their archives, I guess. It was pretty telling.

[Az]

20. Its actually a good study to understand how the mind can be sucked in

It starts out with confidence building exercises. They target people that are at crossroads or unsure of where they are going. It is that uncertainty that they play up to. They offer you a test that will be a guide to what you need to work on.

From there they will enter you into some communication course. These further build your confidence in day to day life. But the trick here is you become increasingly dependent on their training and support for that confidence.

As you invest more and more into their programs you become increasingly emotionally invested in their teachings. Eventually this overrides other condiserations. The things they teach you become increasingly removed from reality till you are no longer able to shift back to reality without a major emotional break from your new beliefs.

They eventually introduce you to Xemu the alien that set all this in motion by trying to solve a population problem by strapping billions of entities to some volcanoes on earth and detonating some H-Bombs thus setting their thetas free. These thetas (think souls) were then captured and brainwashed to think they were something else. They then grasp onto anything that reminds them of being alive and cause stress and confusion in the real theta that exists as your center.

[soleft]

24. I prefer Godhead myself

[Melodybe]

45. I loved Terrace Stamp in that movie

one of his best roles since ZOD and PQOTD.

Bowfinger is such a funny movie.

[devilgrrl]

52. I thought it was 'Mindhead'

[Lexingtonian]

26. it's scary

The organization is everything you've ever heard. Google up 'Operation Clambake' for a pretty comprehensive look at what they do to adherents.

The method is a primitive (late '40s) variety of therapy for symptoms of schizophrenia. The problem is that they diagnose everyone as being abberrant in a way that makes their product the only possible cure- interestingly enough, though, only schizophrenics are rejected by their screening. The 'therapy' drives normal and psychiatrically marginal people into dissociative disorders and psychotic breaks.

Scientology is in a quite literal sense an insane asylum run by its inmates. A few people at the top skim off a lot of profit. And their corporate hyperaggressive civil litigation and harrassment strategy, plus extreme aggressiveness toward American government regulation- to the point of infiltration, sabotage, subversion- is something of an ideal and prototype for the way the Christian Right has begun to behave. They are the most extreme example of American corporate abuse of privileges- Hubbard even had the group reorganize as and pretend to be a Church to increase his powers. Crimes ranging up to treason (Operation Snowflake), manslaughter (the Lisa McPherson story) and potentially even murder outright (the story of Hubbard's gay son's death) are common. White collar crime is the essential m.o. of the leaders and major funders.

The way retention works is to find middle class people who have money but- the early parts of the cult involvement select for this- have fairly shallow intellectual, social, and cultural roots/loyalties. People who are adrift in society with little sense of a role in it, the anonymous masses. Scientology gives them importance, a method of status advancement, a way of seeming to be important, a means of protesting the lack of direction the Modern world supplies average people. (Just like the Christian Right, really.) The height of the power and numbers and money of Scientology seems to have been the late Seventies and early Eighties- but under Hubbard it was always one step away from utter destruction. The management under David Miscavige since ~1982 has been more conservative, focussed on keeping things running as a safe money-and-power scam.

Scientology is a monument to, celebration, and assertion of the importance of literal -material- insanity and its interests in these transition times to the Modern. Contrast it with fundie religion worldwide, such as the Christian Right, which is the literalist- nonmaterial- insanity being defended against the Modern world.

[KurtNYC]

36. I'm seeing it is even freakier than I would have imagined

And Hubbard's tract about how lies control people was ironic (in the context of CoS) and profound in our current MSM environment.

[Senior citizen]

27. They're looking for lost souls.

But the devil has a better deal. The devil buys your soul, while scientology makes you pay them to take it.

I filled out one of their "surveys" years back, and when I said that I wasn't "seeking" or dissatisfied with my life, they lost all interest in me. Good thing, as I don't have any money anyway.

[Az]

30. Thats how many predatory religion works

As children we are indoctrinated in our parents beliefs. Once we become adults our beliefs are well situated and we have well developed defenses against other belief systems. But there are those that do not fully embrace their indoctrinated belief systems. Some of these people may find themself searching for something. And it is these people that are the primary targets of this form of predatory belief system.

[KissMeKate]

29. dont they use lie detectors in their "confessioon/ counseling" sessions?

weird brainwashing, but you get to pay for it!

[Az]

31. No, its a device of their own design

Its really little more than a electical resistance detector. The tension you use to grasp it creates the fluxuation in its readings.

[killbotfactory]

32. It's just a scam to rob people of their money and manipulate them

into not realizing what a scam it is.

You know... like almost every religion known to mankind.

[TWiley]

33. Wasn't L Ron Hubbard, the author of "Dianetics" involved

in this group?

[walldude]

35. He "invented" the "Religion"

There is a good site about cults here:
http://www.cultwatch.com/
read the "how cults work" section, they have alot of information about subtle brainwashing techniques cults use.

[TWiley]

55. What role does L Ron play today?

Do you think he will reach mythical status like Jesus or Mohammad?

[loudsue]

38. That's him! He's the mastermind.

Anybody that doesn't think this cult is growing like a weed isn't paying attention. Even one of my (31-year-old) nephews has started drinking the kool-aid. And...funny thing! His POLITICAL philosophy started changing to republican very shortly after he started his journey into scientology! (Just another coincidence, I'm sure! ) :)

I was recently trying to find an alcohol and drug abuse treatment center for my step-daughter. Turns out, after deeper investigations, that SEVERAL of these 12-step programs were run by scientologists!

I had known a fellow in the '80's that had "escaped" from Scientology, and he told me all about what he went through, so I was already familiar with the cult.

Then, in studying more and more about 12-step programs, then finding out that several of them were run by scientologists, I could easily see how the mind reprogramming of 12-steps and scientology worked beautifully hand in hand. After all, when someone is vulnerable, why not jump on it? (slimey, opportunist bastards! )

VERY scary stuff!

:kick::kick::kick:

[KurtNYC]

40. Narconon is one of them

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/

[TWiley]

54. I wonder what their angle is.

Are they after donation money? Are they a religious / political outfit designed to create a voting block? Do they want to save souls?

What institutions do they threaten? It would be interesting to know the voting statistics, to see how they were aligned.

[Az]

49. Dianetics is part of the liturgy

In fact the volcano on the cover is interesting. The end run of the descent into the belief system eventually teaches them that all the worlds problems were initiated by an alien named Xemu. It seems Xemu has a population problem. So he gathered entities from around the universe and deposited them on the perimeter of several volcanoes on earth and then detenotated a few H-Bombs in them. No more population problem.

The cover of the book is the volcano of this myth.

[TWiley]

53. Xemu?

It sounds like they even have created their own "Satan".

Do they use this figure like the Christian religion does? It seems that Christians are united in opposition to this creature, and in some cases, this is the glue that holds them together.

I see that dynamic at work often outside of religion as well. "We all have blond hair, and they have black hair" Some use divisiveness to endear friends.

[Az]

57. No

In fact most Scientologists don't know about Xemu. They don't get exposed to his history until they are deeply vested in the belief system. Early exposure to Xemu tends to be enough to shatter still forming dependencies on the system. Its not until their entire world view is bent around the teachings that they are shown the inner secrets.

[American Tragedy]

34. What really kills me is the Personality Test they administer

The decidedly unscientific "Oxford Capacity Analysis".

http://www.xenu.net/archive/oca/
http://www.xenu.net/archive/oca/oca.html


"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM... because the second you start telling anybody close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control." - L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88 of $cientology Training Methods

[TWiley]

56. Good Lord ! That sounds like the Bushtapo's strategy.

<<"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM... because the second you start telling anybody close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control." - L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88 of $cientology Training Methods>>

This is exactly what the neo-cons do. One lie after another so fast that the reasoning person cannot catch their breath long enough to point the last lie out.

As I have said .... "If the shrubs lips are moving, then he is lying" "If the shrubs lips are not moving, then he is planning his next lie"

[Zhade]

37. Profit through cultism.

Nutshell enough?

[mitchum]

41. A scam for fleecing people with more money than sense...

that's why the Scientology cult loves "actors"

[BlackVelvetElvis]

43. power without love.

I've known people who got into this. Cost them alot of money and caused them alot of paranoia.

[philosophie_en_rose]

48. Paying for Hope.

Scientology is not a religion. It's a business that provides the service of collecting personal information, secrets, and control of the unfortunate people that desperately want to believe in it.

It's the ultimate freeper dream. "A world clear of crime, insanity, poverty" in which millions of minions pay for the privilege of providing free hotels and staff to celebrities and authority figures.

[begin_within]

50. They also pull people in with a phony "personality test"

[ultraist]

51. It is a cult that uses abusive brainwashing techniques

I lived in Clearwater, FL where they have a HUGE Headquarters. Those people are really strange.

The put a cult watchdog group under because they had so much dirt on them. They are a powerful group.

http://www.tolc.org/watchdog.htm

It's a personal fact not lost on at least one of the organisations he's pursued in the name of disillusioned members and their disquieted families, a Dublin branch of the Scientologists.

"Scientology operates on a system of black propaganda," he says. "A section of the Mennon church was linked to a drug cartel in Mexico, so they contacted the church leaders I work for to tell them they had a dark horse among them."

The traditional breeding ground for cults has always been the United States, where religious freedom is vigorously upheld via the constitution. Now, on this side of the Atlantic, the decline of the Catholic church's dominance and the storming advance of both the Celtic Tiger and the Internet have provided opportunities for powerful cult-promoting influences.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010526-01.html?FACTNet
Commentary:
The Church of Scientology is a commercial enterprise that masquerades aa a religion, and that increasingly acts like a hate group. The cult justifies its actions with its ''dead agenting'' and ''Fair Game'' policies.

[Joanne98]

58. Read "The New Satanists" by Linda Blood.

She founded the Cult Awareness Network and the Scientogists got it from her in a law suit. Now when you call CAN they answer the phone. They sue everybody.

[Az]

60. Scientologists are one of the most litigious religious groups around

They also specialize in harrassing critics into submission. The fact that this thread is here may be drawing their attention.

[BiggJawn]

59. The "deal"? Making lots of money off the Gullible...

Just like any other "religion"...

We could probably retire the national debt off of what's in L. Ron Hubbard's estate...