Randi Rhodes is hinting she believes in LIHOP

[laura888]

I'm amazed and scared for her...

anyone else listening?

[mopinko]

1. said it outright

a caller said it, and she said, yup, i think so too.

[screembloodymurder]

47. Me too!

It stinks.

[Rick Myers]

2. I'm sure she believes it...

I believe it too... Too many coincidences and WAY too many unanswered questions...

[Protagoras]

108. I've been a pretty strong doubter till yesterday

but the FAA Hijacking coordinator starting on 9/11 and all his amazing testimony now has me officially freaked out.

I hate jumping at shadows, but I am no longer convinced there is nothing in them.

[latteromden]

3. I'm a little behind the times here, I guess - LIHOP?

[Rick Myers]

4. Let It Happen On Purpose

re: 9/11

[FreedomAngel82]

138. All about PNAC

So I wouldn't be surprised. Bush senior was in some hotel sitting with the BinLadin family watching it happen. So go figure.

[walldude]

5. Let It Happen On Purpose! n/t

[Windy]

23. Its sure looking like that's what happened....... eom

[ailsagirl]

88. It's perfectly in keeping with their sadism...

I would put NOTHING past those sick freaks.

Have they EVER had the people's welfare in mind? Ever??

[cushla_machree]

115. sometimes i believe it!

operation northwoods anybody?

Taken from a friend:

Our Government Planned Terror Attacks on America

In the early 1960s, top levels of the U.S. military proposed carrying out acts of terrorism against the United States in order to drag the United States into a war against Cuba. There's a book by James Bamford on the National Security Agency, it's called Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency. Bamford concluded that the Joint Chiefs of Staff:

"proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba."

Bamford's account is based on documents which were ordered declassified by the Assassination Records Review Board, and then released by the National Archives within the past few years. These documents contain specific proposals for U.S. military agencies to carry out terrorist actions against the United States and attacks on U.S. military facilities. The time period in question, Winter-Spring of 1962, is after the CIA's miserably failed Bay of Pigs invasion of April 1961.

The first proposal is for "a series of well-coordinated incidents" to take place in and around the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. These were to include having friendly Cubans dress in Cuban military uniforms to start riots at the base, blow up ammunition inside the base, to start fires, to burn aircraft on the air base, to sabotage a ship in the harbor, sink a ship near the harbor entrance, and otherwise fuck shit up. That was just the start. The next proposal elaborated:

"We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," or blow up a drone ship in Cuban waters. Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

The United States government literally planned to attack one of it's own military installations, and kill U.S. soldiers—KILL U.S. SOLDIERS—just in order to provide a pretext to attack Cuba, a sovereign nation.


I read that from my friends blog, and nothing would suprise me anymore.

[TahitiNut]

53. Join the Grassy Knoll Society! (I'm a charter member.)

LIHOP - Let It Happen On Purpose
MIHOP - Made It Happen On Purpose

[BuyingThyme]

56. What's the Grassy Knoll Society...

and how do I join?

[TahitiNut]

58. It has a LIHOP Chapter and a MIHOP Chapter ...

... and it's composed of those who believe the events of 9-11 were (at least) allowed to occur in order to propel a global neoconservative foreign policy of "might makes right".

[BuyingThyme]

60. I already belong to both of those clubs...

But I didn't know that the phrase "grassy knoll" was being applied to me. I'm more of a "smoking gun" kind of a person.

[TahitiNut]

63. It comes from a disparaging remark Ari Fleischer made during a press ...

... conference shortly after 9/11 ... demeaning those who suspected a conspiracy, collaboration, exploitation, and/or cooperation with al Qaeda, and is an allusion to the JFK Assasination where some believed that shots came from the grassy knoll in Dealy Plaza, not just the Schoolbok Depository.

[AZCat]

65. For years I thought it was...

the Schoolbook Suppository.


I was relieved when someone finally cleared that up for me.

[BuyingThyme]

68. Thank you...

I didn't know that.

BTW: I'm sold on the old grassy knoll as much as I'm sold on the new "grassy knoll," so I take Evil Ari's shot as a compliment.

[seventythree]

135. heck, I just thought

we were the reality based community?

[summitch]

168. Evil Ari?

Really now? He'll be appearing at the Nixon Museum March 17. Any questions you'd like me to ask? Funny, Newt Gingrich is appearing, too, on March 24, and the Nixon Museum site refers to him as "Fox News Star". I thought if you appeared regularly on Fox News you were a quasar, not a star.

[Kurovski]

6. Yes, I am.

I think it's the 52 warnings that were ignored. Along with the other warnings recieved from intelligence from around the world that we already knew about.

Actually, at this point you'd have to be stupid or in denial to not even harbor suspicians of LIHOP.

[indepat]

13. We are eaten up with stupid throngs in denial about everrything that has

happened since January 2001. But for many, many, none of it matters a whit IMHO.

[DearAbby]

22. 52 warnings that were ignored...Not so...Ashcroft took them seriously

enough to stop flying himself. Wonder how many others of the upper administration was warned off the commercial airline travel? They took the threat seriously enough for their own protection. :grr:

[Kurovski]

64. Yes, and an interesting question would be:

why was Barbara Olson's husband out of the loop?

[rzemanfl]

74. Who would trust a lawyer with a secret? n/t

[Sterling]

81. Who says he was?

For that matter convince me she was not.

[JDPriestly]

147. Maybe he wasn't.

Maybe he just didn't tell his wife. Would you have told his wife if you had known? May she rest in peace.

[fooj]

163. I know this may be a stretch...but he DID remarry rather quickly.

[Carolinian]

102. Now that's a good point. Surely there's a record of their movements

on 9/11?

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. In light of 52 warnings, who could turn their backs on the possibility

that grows stronger everyday? Go Randi!

[aden_nak]

8. Someone has to say it first.

Doesn't hurt things that PNAC in the 90's used the same phrase Bush did to describe it afterwards. "Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century".

[Occulus]

153. ALSO doesn't hurt that they mentioned the 'axis of evil'

by its members. In order, I believe.

[fooj]

165. Oh God...he DID say that!

[RamboLiberal]

9. Several Callers on Local Talk Radio mentioned LIHOP and MIHIOP

today - WPTT 1360 Pittsburgh to John McIntire who was subbing for Lynn Cullen.

Of course the conservative asshat Jerry Bowyer who follows Lynn's show pooh-poohed the callers as Leftie conspiracy freaks. I didn't listen to Jerry long since I've gotten in the habit of listening to Ed Schultz at 3 (I'm downloading Randi MP3's to listen to during at work or in the car).

[jean]

the right continually dilutes any attack with the 'conspiracy theory'

frame - I hope Harry (Reid) and Howard (Dean) come up with a good two word frame to thwart this.

[FreedomAngel82]

140. I have trust in Reid and Dean on this

I think it all just takes a lot of searching and finding the hard facts and presenting them to people. It will take a lot of time and work, so I think it'll work in time.

[Zan_of_Texas]

181. The reality folks need to attack the phrase "conspiracy theory" head on.

If you're old enough to remember the days of fighting for the Equal Rights Amendment in the late 1960s and the 1970s, you may remember that feminists (those who believe in equal opportunity regardless of gender) were called lesbians and man-haters by the other side.

"Lesbian" was the word used to keep those fighting for equality in their place.

"Conspiracy theorist" is the phrase used now, to try to blunt the arguments and facts of those who are doing research to explode the lies being told to us about wars, terrorists, global theft, involuntary suicides, a timely "accidental" small plane crash carrying a courageous Democratic Senator, and on and on.

Unfortunately, the biggest evils of our times are not perpetrated by lone criminals but by people acting in concert -- aka in conspiracy.

I think it was Greg Palast who said, "I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a conspiracy expert!"

It was Gore Vidal who said (2002, quoted by Online Journal):

"'Conspiracy stuff' is now shorthand for unspeakable truth."

[MrSlayer]

10. At the very least they Let it Happen.

I'm strongly in the MIHOP camp. They fuckin set the whole thing up themselves and I can't wait until it finally comes out.

[forintegrity]

112. Thank you , thank you, thank you!!!

I have thought this all along...that it was set up by * and his cronies. Ever since I saw Farenheit 9-11 I have thought that!

But I have never seen or heard any one else say it until just now and have only said it myself to 2 close friends (one of whom couldn't believe I could think that!)

I'm so happy I'm not alone anymore!:bounce:

And yes....I can hardly wait til the shit really hits the fan!

[FreedomAngel82]

141. I even think Bush senior had a plan on it

Who knows how far back it goes. But I think Poppy is involved in everything. :tinfoilhat:

[flyarm]

154. PAPA BUSH AND NEW WORLD ORDER !

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu15.html

"You said, President Bush, that a 'New World Order' would emerge once the Gulf crisis has been solved. How do you envisage this New World Order?" Reporter during the First Gulf War.

[fooj]

166. You are not alone!

[ultraist]

134. Agree, at the least it was gross negligence

[SammyWinstonJack]

171. Set up the scenario in which 9/11 could occur and then egged

on those who would be ripe to carry out their evil plan. 'Carpet of gold, carpet of bombs.' They then sat back and waited, watched and ignored. Not incompetent at all, definitely COMPLICIT. And I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for it all to finally come out, might just turn blue in the process.

[jazzjunkysue]

180. That's why he didn't panic and skip out on My Pet Goat: He knew!

He was sitting there thinking through everything that had just been put into motion. It's like, "Honey, I'm going into labor." "No, you're not, its' just brakston hicks." He needed a few minutes to sit there and realize the terrorists had finally taken action. He was remembering his plan of response. He was reading his own cliff notes, and remembering what Rove told him. He wasn't in shock, and he didn't look like he was in shock. You have to believe "let it happen" because then, EVERYTHING makes sense. Including, taking Bush off the phone as soon as he was airborn. He was on another phone to Rove, to get his new programming, while Cheney was wasting norad's time screwing up the military response. Source: Rich ard Clark "Against all enemies" (But, not the "on the phone to rove" part.

[Plato_Archanes]

11. Not a good thing to admit before seeing a surgeon

But I'm not sure I understand your point. I am starting to believe in LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) myself. I do not think that there was a meeting where Bush said "let two airplanes take down the WTC", but I think that they wanted a terrorist attack on the U.S. Mainland to justify their war and legitimize there appointed (mis)leader.

LIHOP could have been as simple as Bush saying "I don't like that Richard Clarke. The fact the Clinton liked him is reason enough to ignore him" and Cheney saying "Yeah, he's a real major league asshole"

I think LIHOP is beievable and not necessarilty a conpiracy theory.

But why do you say you are scared for her?

[yodermon]

google "wtc 7" n/t

[nostamj]

43. LIHOP/+DoubleCross

no, the chimp didn't say "bring down the Towers"


BUT... maybe they made a deal with former CIA operative OBL to 'hijack' a couple of planes and then BUSHCO would bravely thwart the hijackings...

but, (and remember the deer-in-the-headlights expression on the chimp's face) OBL had another agenda....

[BuyingThyme]

46. There are no former CIA operatives

[nostamj]

114. well....

you know what I mean...

[Sterling]

82. I think that is a valid theory.

nt. I can go with that or maybe MIHOP.

[FreedomAngel82]

142. I thought I read somewhere on one of these post's

that BinLadin confessed in an interview a year after 9/11 that he didn't do it? :shrug: :tinfoilhat:

[mordarlar]

158. BIN LADEN INTERVIEW...

>>>>I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. <<<


>>>>The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. <<<


>>>Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.<<<


>>>The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which makes us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.<<<


http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

[Nostradammit]

159. I disagree -

I think it was the hi-jackers who got double-crossed. What they thought was going to be a "traditional" hi-jacking got turned into remote-control flying of the planes into the buildings. I think flight 93 was supposed to clobber the White House or the Capitol but something went haywire so they had to concoct the "brave, brave passengers" story. Or maybe the brave passengers actually threw the monkey wrench. Either way, I think that explains the deer-in-the-headlights look.

I am 100% convinced that they needed a huge fireball with lots of deaths to pull off the PNAC shenanigans.


Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[ignatius 2]

162. What are you talking about? The deer in the headlights look was when

the second tower was hit, the Pa plane was over an hour later.

[Melynn]

122. I believe the scenario

that Bush and Cheney disregarded Richard Clarke's warnings. Cheney and Condi Rice they have hinted that they thought that Clarke was a clown and still do to this day even though events have proved Clarke right.

After 9/11, the Bush administration has been doing damage control over the fact that they disregarded the 9/11 warning signs.

[FreedomAngel82]

143. Probably because of Clinton

and how the right hates him. :( They have so much hatered for the democrats they would ignore things like Al-Quida information that could protect their people and not listen to someone who knows a thing or two about this group and tried his hardest to get to Bush. :\ That just isn't right and really makes me upset. :(

[xpat]

12. Zbigniew Brzezinski was calling for

a "Pearl Harbor" incident in his 1998 book "The Grand Chessboard". He said repeatedly that Americans would not do what was necessary to promote the American Empire without such a prod.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465027261/qid=1108159359/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/102-2049611-6128119

In case anybody has any illusion that the empire is a Republican/Bush thing, ZB is a democrat, and he was Carter's national security advisor.

[carpe diem]

20. whether he called for it or not...

anybody can call for or theorize anything they want, IT HAPPENED ON BUSH/CHENEY's WATCH and PNAC is full of Reagan/Bush/Bush/Cheney operatives...at least you didn't blame it on Clinton's bj...that's gotten really old...

[Tinoire]

105. Brzezinski is in bed with those fellows. Has been from the start

Brzezinski has been in bed with those fellows for a long time. He was Bush I's co-chair on the National Security Advisory Task Force. He was also chair of the The American Committee for Peace In Chechnya along with Alexander Haig, Jr., former Congressman Stephen J. Solarz and Bruce P. Jackson who is a founder and director/president of Project for the New American Century, US Committee for NATO/Expand NATO, Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, Project on Transitional Democracies, etc.

You can't divide things by Democrat vs Republican anymore. It's been Progressives vs the neocon and neoliberal neanderthal Empire Builders for a while now.

2950 hits for Brzezinski + PNAC

====

Where It All Began: Nitze and NSC-68

Most if not all leaders of the Iraq war lobby are disciples, protégés and students of proto-hawk Paul H. Nitze and the Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Nitze, a former Dillon, Read investment banker (whose company floated loans for the Third Reich) and member of the Council on Foreign Relations, founded the SAIS in 1944. Nitze advised five US presidents and held high-level cabinet positions in every presidential administration (except Jimmy Carter's) until his retirement in 1989.

The 1950 NSC Memorandum 68, written by Nitze (for then-Secretary of State Dean Acheson) was the policy basis of the Cold War. Every successive US administration has implemented hard-line policies that can be directly traced to NSC-68, which calls for the destruction of the Soviet Union and unrivaled US military power. According to former CIA agent Philip Agee, NSC-68 was the remilitarization plan that led to the establishment of a permanent war economy and an eternal "national security" apparatus.

The memo also asserted for the first time, in the name of national security, pre-emptive US claims on scarce economic and social resources anywhere in the world.

NSC-68 specifically stated that "Soviet domination of the potential power of Eurasia, whether achieved by armed aggression or by political and subversive means, would be strategically and politically unacceptable to the United States."

The 9/11 War itself is the realization of the "Eurasian" imperative of NSC-68. Zbigniew Brzezinski, a Nitze protégé and SAIS board member, has long been obsessed with "Eurasia." His "Clash of Civilizations" geostrategy is spelled out in the book "The Grand Chessboard"—a virtual map of the current conflict.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin110702/chin110702.html

You can place the point of origin for everything in PNAC's American Imperilialism verbatim with one man who happened to be NSA in a democratic administration; Zbigniew Brzezinski. Some of the statements he makes in this interview are frankly shocking in their unparalleled idiocy.:

INTERVIEW WITH ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI IN LE NOUVEL OBSERVATEUR, JANUARY 15-21, 1998, ON KERSPLEBEDEB

Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ("From the Shadows"), that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundementalists, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

In Zbigniew Brzezinski's book, The Grand Chess Board, the former secretary of state laid out a plan detailing what the U.S. should do in order to establish and maintain global hegemony. He suggested that control over Central Asia was absolutely necessary. One of the major obstacles to the achievement of this plan, he noted, was the problem of securing domestic support for military presence and action abroad. In light of the horrific attacks on 9/11 his words carry additional significance. "The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America's engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat."

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5428.html



The "Clash of Civilizations" theory, developed by Harvard professor-turned President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski and his protégés, including Harvard Prof. Samuel Huntington, defined the Arab and Islamic world as an "arc of crisis" from the Middle East to the Islamic countries of Central Asia in the then-Soviet Union. Brzezinski wanted to use the "Islamic card" against the Soviet Union, and in so doing, began the policy of promoting Islamic fundamentalists against moderate and pro-Western Arab and Islamic governments. After the end of the Cold War, the Brzezinski/Huntington crowd updated their "arc of crisis," declaring that the Islamic religion is the enemy, in a new war in which religions, rather than political systems, inevitably battle each other. However, trained by British and U.S. special intelligence services and the CIA, and armed by Israeli military networks, the very terrorist drug-runners in the Islamic world who were launched by Brzezinski and "adopted" by the Iran-Contra networks run by Lt. Col. Oliver North, under the elder George Bush's Executive Order 12333, have become the main suspects in terrorist attacks against the United States.
http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000012.html

[ignatius 2]

111. Cold blooded monster..Give the Soviet Union their Vietnam and

don't worry about the thousands of innocent people killed..he has no regrets about drawing the soviets into a war that ultimately caused the breakup of the Soviet Union..

The irony is that the war in Iraq seems to be doing exactly that to the United States. We are becoming bankrupt financially spending billions on a trumped up war while cutting necessary programs here..

We are becoming morally bankrupt as well..many don't seem to give a good goddamn a bout killing thousands of innocent civilians,being lied to again and again by a psychopath and his cronies and apparently the torture of human beings is a ok with them.

The Grand Chessboard has only a few who matter, the rest of us are simply pawns in game of madness.

[Protagoras]

109. I recently read that book and was immediately struck

by the same lines. He basically says we can't achieve EMPIRE because we lack the will, having a division of powers and no national will to move abroad.

9/11 and Buscho have now addressed both of those problems...All Hail Pax Americana.

[w13rd0]

14. I've been of the opinion...

...that it was LIHOP or MIHOP since around 10:15am CST on Sept 11th, 2001.

[musette_sf]

19. took me a little longer than you

by evening I was convinced it was LIHOP or MIHOP.

I think I was more concerned during the day with tracking down the whereabouts of friends and family members.

In memory of Juan Cisneros
2/16/77 - 9/11/01

[FreedomAngel82]

145. I started thinking after

watching F911 and doing some reading on 9/11 based sites.

[Tinoire]

93. The minute I saw it I told my husband

"My God, they did it."


All the signs were there for it to happen and it was only a matter of waiting and vigilantly watching. I have to admit, I didn't expect anything that spectacular but looking back, I realise that for the plans they had in mind, anything less spectacular wouldn't have done the trick. Less spectacular wouldn't have gotten countries to immediately sympathize and let America run roughshod over international law in our new war on yet another noun- terror instead of drugs.

The empire builders will stop at nothing. When you see how casually they'll sacrifice the lives of our young people and the people we war against, you realize that 2000 lives ain't shit when billions, economic domination and a new world order are in play.

[Lostnote03]

125. Tinoire....You stated my exact words as well....sorry for the late respons

[Tinoire]

128. What made you be looking for that?

For me it was reading PNAC, knowing what the Straussians, Nitze and people like Brzezinski had been pushing with their various think tanks. The day Emerson and Pipes had their little task force that was shutting down Muslim web portals in the US, I knew something was up. Something bad and that someone was getting framed for something big enough to manufacture consent.

Tatyana Koryagina had, in July, been advising Putin to dump the dollar and switch to gold because the dollar was going to sink big time in an orchestrated attack by "dark forces" to bring about a New World Order. Pravda carried the speech but after Sept 11, it just vanished from their site but it was captured by DU.

June 29, 2001, address to Duma official hearing “On Measures To Ensure the Development of the Russian Economy Under Conditions of a Destabilization of the World Financial System.”
Dr. Koryagina is senior economist from the Institute of Macroeconomic Research at the Russian Ministry of Economic Development and Trade. Her speech has been translated from Russian. Subheads have been added.

(snip)

Many colleagues here know me, and that I have studied the "shadow" economy of the Soviet Union and then Russia, in parallel with studying the ordinary, normal economy. So, when I was dragged by the ears into politics, as well, while studying our domestic "shadow" economy and expanding that to the study of the transnational "shadow" economy, I unavoidably landed in the realm of analysis that is sometimes called conspiracy theory. This is an analytical technique, a methodology, which makes it possible to fine-tune research and quantitative evaluations, both with respect to time, and with respect to certain other kinds of parameters.

I shall not go in detail into the basis for our forecast, which I shall now present to you. Just take my word for it, as some colleagues in the Ministry of Internal Affairs audience did back then.

My forecast is that major events will unfold, once again, in August. In a strange way, it seems to me that the date may even be known. It will be on Aug. 19. I have provisionally called this scenario, "Tidal Wave XXI," where XXI denotes the new century, in Roman numerals.

The Main Blow Will Hit the United States
The main blow will be inflicted on the United States of America. My colleague Kobyakov said here, that his analysis shows that the eye of the cyclone will be in America. I would only add, that it will emerge there, but this will be done on purpose.

Many of the preceding speakers mentioned financial figures, on the magnitude of financial assets, which had reached around $400 trillion in 2000, as against $30 trillion world GDP, and on capital flows. But it is consistently treated as unnecessary to analyze who is transferring that money. Who is the non-resident, with respect to the American economy? Where do these investments come from? If here we bring in our supplementary analysis and methodology, the picture becomes fairly clear, and can be observed, including with respect to the persons involved.

Thus, I make this determination. It will be the United States this time, and it will be a crisis developing at a different rate than the one in 1997-98. At that time, the action was drawn out. Here, it will be more of a precision strike. It will be like the explosion of the Universe. And it will spread throughout all continents. Many governments will be swept away. The monetary and financial system of the world will change.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/duma/duma_koryagina.html


I hate to quote Newsmax but I can't find that many references on the net anymore...

Citizens to Cash Out Dollars
Dr. Alexandr Nemets
Monday, Sept. 17, 2001
Russian press accounts and other activities by the Russian government this summer indicate that the Russian government knew in advance that something would happen to America, including a "financial attack" against the U.S.
During the past three months, Russian media and officials have encouraged citizens to cash out U.S. dollars pending an economic collapse there after an "attack."

Currently, the dominant view of the media is that the terrorist actions in New York City and Washington were just a "bolt of thunder from the sky."

(snip)

Pravda Wrote of Financial 'Attack' on U.S.

Consider the July 12, 2001, Page One report in Pravda – still considered the establishment voice of Russia's old guard communists who control the military and intelligence agencies.

The Pravda article was entitled "Will the Dollar and America Fall Down on August 19? That's the Opinion of Dr. Tatyana Koryagina, Who Very predicted the August Default in 1998."

(snip)

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/16/103951.shtml

Honestly though I didn't expect anything that spectacular. Did you? What was your reasoning?

[Lostnote03]

164. I was not drawn to one revealing incident, however

...it was the continual littany of happenstance prior to 911...Enron/Baxter, Media Consortium Report, The massive Tax cuts targeting the ruling elite, The 5-4 decision that blew any pretense of fairness w/i our electoral process and illustrated the intense power grab that had taken place....I guess the ominous feelings that we were revisiting the JFK era wrt the body politic being exposed as a blood sport....

[Zan_of_Texas]

182. Lostnote03 - I don't get what you're saying about Enron/Baxter?

There was barely any knowledge anywhere that the SEC had started to take a look at Enron, around the time of 9-11. It would be several months later that the company imploded, declared bankruptcy, and former Enron VP Cliff Baxter was found shot.

[Lostnote03]

183. Zan....Thanks for the heads up.....

.........My thoughts were jumbled up wrt replying to Tinoires statement....as you stated the Inaction of FERC up to that point(911)imo has to be taken into consideration as well.....Baxters death is suspicious enough w/o taking into consideration the role of the coroner whom if I recall was instrumental in a controversial ruling while she(?) was in D.C.....fog is setting in again wrt the case...best wishes

[stirringstill]

184. Enron was going down as early as summer at least

Not true. Enron was crumbling prior to 9-11. We now know that the upper tier of Enron execs knew the company would implode and thus one reason why Lay got grilled for encouraging company workers to buy stock in late August preceding 9-11. Other than Enron's tentacles in the energy sector, I don't see any direct relation between Enron and 9-11. It is odd though that everything close to Bush turns to sh*t.

[Zan_of_Texas]

186. Operative phrase is "we now know"

We now know that Enron was doing some fancy footwork way prior to 9-11-01. Several years at least.

But, the general public, and even most of the financial press and probably most corporate analysts, had not figured it out by 9-11. There was a bit of a rumbling in August, but not much, when Skilling resigned.

Most people would not have used Enron's fall-to-come in their estimations of what actually happened on 9-11, unless they had a crystal ball or were extremely tuned in, like Bethany McLean was of Fortune Magazine.

With the advantage of hindsight, a bunch of things become quite interesting. For instance, Senator Phil Gramm announced he would not run again for Senate -- a week before 9-11....and just after the SEC quietly and unannounced began to investigate Enron. His wife Wendy Gramm served on Enron's audit committee of the board.

[BrklynLiberal]

178. That is exactly what I said as I watched the second plane hit the WTC from

my apartment in Brooklyn. I never had doubts that it was at least LIHOP and most probably MIHOP.

[seabeyond]

15. two ground to air missille launchers installed on hotel roof

in florida 9/10
i saw the first airplane fly into the building i thought......

no one saw that plane go into the building. he was watching from car when it happened and saw. they had to know when and where. but so much more. just two of the mere relevent points

so much more

[pstans]

16. I think they knew about it and didn't do anything to stop it

so yes, they LIHOP. I am not totally sure when they first befan to know about. If it was months before or if it was right after the planes were hijacked. Anyway, they had plenty of time to stop at least one of the planes after the first plane hit.

[seemslikeadream]

17. is it just me, or has opinion on 911 lihop/mihop changed?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x32905

9-11: Pop goes the Bush mythology bubble-new article by C. Schwarz
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x32211

9/11 was an inside job
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=29793&mesg_id=29793

anyone seen this pentagon 911 stuff?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=31405&mesg_id=31405

Strange seismic activity and molten steel at Ground Zero on 9/11/01
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=29277&mesg_id=29277

9/11 Commission: There Must Be 93 Ways To Blow Your Cover
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=20744&mesg_id=20744

Can I ask a tinfoil hat question re: 9/11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=7924&mesg_id=7924

[ignatius 2]

40. These are all so recent, we had threads here from day one and each and

every one of them was fantastic. There was even a separate forum set up for all those posts. I am not sure why it was removed, little by little I forget some of the wierd and erie "coincidences" and that was a great place to get forgotten info.

Like the fact that Muhammed Atta had been given $100,000 by the head of the Pakistani intelliegence agency. Like Bush Senior was in DC that day at a Carlyle meeting. The fact that Marvin Bush sat on the board of the security company who provided security at Logan airport.

The thing that bothered me from the very beginning was why no fighter planes were sent out immediately.NYC has a no fly zone which apparently was ignored not once but twice that day.

Then when the FBI and CIA knew almost immediately which car at the airport had training tapes for God's sakes, which hotel room the "terrusts" had stayed in, a found passport in a sickening stack of rubble..BULLSHIT factor rang about a 1000%.

Then the clearing of the debris at a breakneck speed before there was time to even do a halfway thorough investigation sent up more flags.

Those were wonderful posts involving hundreds of hours of research and ideas along with many name callings of idiot, morons, consiracy theorists, tin foil hats..etc..etc

As people continue awakening from their fear and disbelief, their anger will rise and then, I hope and pray, these traitorous bastards will finally get their comeuppance.

[AZCat]

41. That forum still exists

It has moved a couple of times in the last few months, but you can now find it here.

September 11 threads in GD seem to end up there also so if one disappears from here look in that forum - it's probably been moved.

[ignatius 2]

55. Thank you so much.

I have been missing those posts, there were some brilliant people that first year who for different reasons no longer hang here but they really had some wonderful insights and had thoroughly researched many of the wierd events around that time.

Thanks again.

[Sterling]

85. It is a huge mistake for mods to move and delete this discussion.

The fact LIHOP was coined on DU is a credit to the site. The fact that the majority of DUers fought off the propaganda and the lie failed to take is amazing.

If you change DU into a place that that would not be allowed to occur it would be a disservice to a lot more than just DUers.

[AZCat]

100. Delete, yes. Move, no.

I posted about this in ATA - I think it is a shame when threads about September 11th get lost in the GD archives. I suggested that they be moved to the September 11 forum after a set period (like 24 hours) but Skinner was reluctant to adopt such a strategy.

I like being able to read all the 9/11 stuff in one place.

[Tinoire]

130. Deleted??!!

Who's been deleting Sept 11 threads?! Was there a flame war or something? This is one of the most important tools we have to oust that Bush cabal AND and their beloved Vichy collaborators. Why on earth would 9-11 threads be deleted?

Having them in one place has its pros but also has some serious cons. Aren't they much more important for the education and galvanization of people who don't support the Bush regime than useless polls and annoying 2008 campaign propaganda?

[AZCat]

146. I don't know if any have been deleted.

I would not support deleting them based on content.

Your point is good - that's why I think they should be allowed to stay for a while - but I don't want them to get stuck in the archives. There are discussions that have been going on for over a year in some of the threads in the September 11 forum and that couldn't happen in GD.

[seemslikeadream]

50. Here's some older threads

OK people, what's your HOP level? (poll)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=17

9/11 Commission transcripts finally ready
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=47

Why was the order to shoot the planes down so wrong on 9/11?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=359

Enlightening old DU thread on massive explosions in WTC 1 basements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=589

The Pentagon Thread: Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=1167

Did Neo-Cons Gone Wild Make a Propaganda Spectacle of the WTC?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=978

Who put all those bombs in the WTC?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=1312

The Pentagon Thread Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=708

The Pentagon Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=405

[meganmonkey]

70. OMG thanks for posting those!

Very interesting to see - I wasn't here then, and while I was reading some stuff online, I often felt like there weren't many people around questioning it. Fun reading! And much more arguing about it then - it seems, these days, most people around here are thinking LIHOP or MIHOP.

:)

[Sterling]

86. Amazing is it not? So why does it get suppressed?

Most of this discussion, even as it relates to current news events gets shoved into a basement forum. Which is frustrating because if you suspect 9-11 was an inside job it is fundamental to your view of our current situation.

[Tinoire]

99. Those were good discussions! Thanks for posting those links

It's a shame that the topic causes such embarrassment to the delicate sensibilities of the reasonable ones that it gets deliberately marginalized.

Paris of former Public Enemy fame, had a song out about it a few weeks after Sept 11. Great song too! ((Mods, I have his e-mailed permission to reprint the lyrics))

What Would You Do?

I see a message from the government, like every day
I watch it, and listen, and call ‘em all suckas
They warnin’ me about Osama or whatever
Picture me buyin’ this scam I said never

You in tune to a Hard Truth Soldier spittin’
I stay committed gives a fuck to die or lose commission
It’s all a part of fightin’ devil state mind control
And all about the battle for your body mind and soul

And now I’m hopin’ you don’t close ya mind - so they shape ya
Don’t forget they made us slaves, gave us AIDS and raped us
Another Bush season mean another war for profit
All in secret so the public never think to stop it
The illuminati triple 6 all connected
Stolen votes they control the race and take elections
It’s the Skull and Bones Freemason kill committee
See the Dragon gettin’ shittier in every city

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

Now ask yourself who’s the one with the most to gain (Bush)
‘Fore 911 motherfuckas couldn’t stand his name (Bush)
Now even niggas waivin’ flags like they lost they mind
Everybody got opinions but don’t know the time

‘Cause America’s been took - it’s plain to see
The oldest trick in the book is MAKE an enemy
Of phony evil so the government can do it’s dirt
And take away ya freedom lock and load, beat and search

Ain’t nothin’ changed but more colored people locked in prison
These pigs still beat us but it seem we forgettin’
But I remember ‘fore Septmember how these devils do it
Fuck Guliani ask Diallo how he doin’

We in the streets holla “jail to the thief” - followv Fuck wavin’ flags bring these dragons to they knees
Oil blood money make these killers ride cold
Suspicious suicides people dyin’ never told

It’s all a part of playin’ God so ya think we need ‘em
While Bin Ashcroft take away ya rights to freedom
Bear witness to the sickness of these dictators
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

So now you askin why my records always come the same
Keep it real, ain’t no fillers, motherfuck a blingin’
Mine eyes seen the gory of the coming of the beast
So every story every word I’m sayin’ “Fuck Peace”

See you could witness the illuminati bodycount
Don’t be surprised these is devils that I’m talkin’ bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean shit to killers?
Nigga I swear to God we the ones - ain’t no villans

Or any other word they think to demonize a country
Ain’t no terror threat unless approval ratings slumpin’
So I’ma say it for the record we the ones that planned it
Ain’t no other country took a part or had they hand in

Just a way to keep ya scary so you think you need ‘em
Praisin’ Bush while that killer take away ya freedom
How many of us got discovered but ignore the symptoms?
Niggas talkin’ loud but ain’t nobody sayin’ shit’

And with the 4th Amendment gone eyes are on the 1st
That’s why I’m spittin’ cyanide each and every verse
I see the Carlyle group and Harris Bank Accounts
I see ‘em plead the 5th each and every session now

And while Reichstag burns see the public buy itv I see the profilin’ see the media’s compliance
War is good for business see the vicious make a savior
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/whatwouldyoudo.html

Wav file: http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/

[Radio-Active]

119. great album..

but just to be technical, Paris isn't "of Public Enemy fame".

He has always been a solo artist. He is producing the new PE album though.

[Tinoire]

148. Something told me not to write it that way

because I wasn't 100% certain. I know he worked closely with them but some DUer told me he used to be with them. So of course, you made me go check just to be sure and you're right.

Great album! Glad you know it and Gat gets kudos because when it came out right after 9-11, I e-mailed him and asked if I could copy it onto CDs and give it away at the antiwar march and sure enough he came back and said yes so I stayed up all night and made about 200 of them that other DUers I was marching with helped distribute. Lol that was fun!

Who else do you like?

As penance for my error ;) Hope the links are still good.

Video of Saul Williams reciting the pledge of Resistance live

Saul Williams

The Pledge of Resistance

Eminem's Music Video: Mosh

March of Death MP3
by Zack De La Rocha

Makeshift Patriot - Sage Francis

Immortal Technique - Bin Laden featuring Mos Def and Eminem

Mr. Lif- Home of the Brave

Bush Word Association

Jurrasic 5 - Ducky Boy

Bush Word Association

www.guerrillafunk.com/audio/paris/Sonic_Jihad/WhatWouldYouDoLong.mp3

Beastie Boys - In a World Gone Mad - right click and save as...

Public Enemy - Son of a Bush

Peace Jukebox - PLENTY of anti-war pro-peace songs from popular artists[br />
Interview with Noam Chomsky on US policy

Thoughts from Within - Woody Harrleson

Internet Vets For Truth

[Sterling]

89. Those were the days when DU really came to life.

And yes if what was discussed on those threads could be condensed into a booklet or documentary.........

[MsTryska]

18. I've been hearig her hint for the past couples weeks on it.

she goes as far as she dares i think.

[understandinglife]

21. How could one think of it any other way after seeing what Bush DID that...

....morning?

Talk about 'hiding in plane sight.'

Just focus on what he DID that morning and ask yourself one simple question:

"If I were President and I was informed that two commercial airliners had crashed into two of the most iconic and major facilities in my country what would I have been doing within 60 seconds or less?"

For crying out loud, everyone. I could have been at the Pope's wedding and I'd have had my butt moving so fast toward AF1 you'd have seen flames from the friction.

THE TURD KNEW. THE TURD DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT THEN AND HE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT NOW.

Peace.

HOW DO YOU LIKE BEING A CITIZEN OF A ROGUE SUPER_POWER?

[BuyingThyme]

28. ...Not to mention the weeks preceding 9/11

[understandinglife]

30. Precisely. (nt)

"DO YOU ENJOY BEING A CITIZEN OF A ROGUE SUPER_POWER?"

[tavalon]

127. Actually,

the President did move immediately to a secure bunker and immediately began directing information here and there and everywhere though he did make sure that the job went off mostly without a hitch. The only thing the President forgot to do that day was make sure the figurehead got picked up in a timely manner.

The President left the figurehead in a Florida elementary school reading a book about My Pet Goat.

Oops.

[BuyingThyme]

24. Thank you Randi!

[linazelle]

25. She's talked about this ad infinitum...nothing new there n/t

[Hissyspit]

26. I emailed her to show support. Here is my personal take again...

I've posted this before. I hope it doesn't sound self-serving, but I think my experience is very telling. I'm not MIHOP, I'm fairly much LIHOP, but I make a point about that at the end of this post.

On Aug. 11, 2001, I was at the World Trade Center. It was Sunday and it was a drizzly day. My girlfriend and I were there to try and get Broadway tickets. The lines were very long. She kept going out onto the plaza to smoke. Outside, while looking at the now-destroyed 1993 memorial, I said to her: "I don't understand why people don't think they will try to do it again. They won't use truck bombs again because it didn't work the first time." I was very frustrated with American complacency and escapism and had often lectured about it to my students. I looked up at the buildings and imagined missiles and airplanes hitting it, and how the buildings would damage everything below. We did not go up to eat at Windows on the World because she felt uneasy about the elevators and the crowd. I still have the umbrella I bought at the mall beneath the WTC (as well as a copy of the "Sexy New York City 2001," but that's none of your business).
This was the weekend after the Friday of the infamous PDB: "Bin Laden Determined To Strike In U.S."

I was ON VACATION. I teach ART HISTORY. I'm not the National Security Advisor. I saw it coming; how the f**k did our elected leaders NOT?? Or why did they refuse to?

INVOLVED or COMPLICIT or INCOMPETENT or NEGLIGENT is almost beside the point (almost). Why are these people still in power?

Again, I hope this doesn't come across as self-serving. It's not like I saved anyone's life or anything. But to have Condoleeza Rice say "No one could have seen this coming" or "No one could have predicted this" - MY National Security Advisor, who is now Secretary of State - is NOT O.K.

[Disturbed]

27. LIHOP ?- Yes.

I feel that the 911 commissioners know it was LIHOP.

[Trish1168]

38. I've been thinking this too

I believe it was at least LIHOP and possibly MIHOP.

It just can't be coincidence that all these right wing lunatic PNAC guys take charge of the whitehouse, and then suddenly we get the 'pearl harbor' they'd written about. They had the patriot act already written (there's no way they could have written such a comprehensive bill in such a short time). Although, I suppose some Nazi could have had it on the shelf, waiting for the day.

Still, I think it was no coincidence that they were debating the undoing of the bill of rights...oh, um, I mean the patriot act....when we had the anthrax scare (anthrax that came from a government facility).

I also believe its no coincidence that they seek to expand the powers of the executive branch to be near totalitarian, while simultaneously they tank our economy. Its a way to take wealth away from US citizens, and make us less powerful as a group.

I feel like everything they're doing is stuff where they know the consequence and they don't care. I feel like they intend to do it all, and that there is a grand plan. I have only one problem with this. Why? How much wealth and power can so few people have? Is it worth it to them to be the most hated men in the world?

Just some thoughts.

[eleny]

35. I never read your previous posting

Thanks for posting again about your experience. Not self serving. How can you not be shaken by having been there so soon before the horror.

I'm originally from NYC and was in the buildings several times - even before they were fully completed. Even when visiting the relatives back home, I never had any desire to go into the buildings. And now I won't even fly in planes.

[Hissyspit]

45. Well, it usually is in a thread that gets bumped to the 9/11 Forum

but thanks very much for your comments. I've gone to visit New York City every year or two since 1986. i used to dream (literal dreaming while I slept, I mean) about approaching the city and it seemed magical, like coming upon the Emerald City in 'Wizard of Oz.' Guess my dreams were based on all the movies I had seen of it, from childhood on. Imagine my surprise when I drove up through New Jersey at night and saw the glowing skyline - it was just like my dreams (except I was usually levitating in my dreams!)

[demigoddess]

113. probably the "we must not cause a panic" excuse. they saw it coming

but thought a panic would be a bad thing. They were too neocon to get the idea of prevent it.

[SiouxJ]

175. I've always thought LIHOP but didn't think it would be that bad

maybe I'm too generous but that's how I feel. I think they thought maybe a hundred or two hundred people would perish and that that was an acceptable number (to them) for them to be able to convince us to let them carry out their plan.

[eleny]

29. Yes, I'm listening to Randi, too.

Yesterday and today are very powerful broadcasts. Bernie Ward has been saying LIHOP, too. He keeps referring back to PNAC assertions about how they needed their own Pearl Harbor. But Randi is the step by step and fact knitted to fact person.

Randi, Mike Malloy, Bernie Ward and Thom Hartmann are my heores.

[BuyingThyme]

33. I haven't heard Bernie this week...

Has he been on it?

[eleny]

42. Yes, Bernie's been on it

I wasn't able to stay up very late last night. So I don't know if he went into it in as much detail as Randi. I doubt that anyone does. But he fully agrees with callers who call and talk about LIHOP. And he talks about PNAC quite often.

[sickinohio]

48. Don't mean to sound dumb or anything - but what is MIHOP and

PNAC

:shrug:

[BuyingThyme]

51. Made It Happen on Purpose &...

Project for a New Amerian Century:

[Hissyspit]

52. Make It Happen On Purpose & Project for New American Century: GOOD LINK

as opposed to Let it Happen On Purpose (LIHOP); PNAC are the neo-cons.
Here's background on them:
http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/pnac.html

[EST]

54. Please see upthread

[Hissyspit]

66. Here's the Demopedia background link:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/PNAC

[sickinohio]

67. Thanks for the help - I think LIHOP

I hate this administration!!!!

[tavalon]

131. PNAC

Please, please read The Project for a New American Century. It will really help you understand what is happening with our country right now. As well, if you are like me, it will help you to not get blindsided. I know what the next step is so I don't get shocked and possibly thrown off by what happens next. That way, I'm able to respond quickly without having to throw off the shock.

You can find it online or I suspect, it's in the Demopedia here on DU.

[BuyingThyme]

49. Bernie jumps on board, but then tends to fall off...

When JFK Jr.'s plane went down, he was absolutely sure it was an assassination. But now he avoids any such notion.

[Shredr]

31. What surgery is Randi going in for?

I heard her say she'll be out next week because of a surgery. I hope she'll be okay.

[annabanana]

75. hysterectomy

couple of weeks, Mike Malloy taking her spot.

[tavalon]

132. Now, this is going to sound paranoid but

I hope she vetted her anesthesiologist. One of the easiest ways to murder someone is by an anesthesia "accident" during surgery. Okay, maybe not the easiest, but damn easy.

[Shredr]

179. My prayers are with her

[Taverner]

32. Malloy pretty much said that last night too

Not sure if that is new or not

[redherring]

34. I will never have the guts to call Randi

She's very knowledgeable, and entertaining as hell, but she shouts at her callers sometimes, even when they're on our side. A caller from Los Angeles got a little nervous yesterday, and I was a bit disappointed by how Randi treated her.
So personally speaking, I believe that Ed Schultz can communicate better with the masses as he is very polite and listens to Republican callers before responding.

[BuyingThyme]

36. You're right..

She always tells that damn try-on-the-coat story, but she's clearly not one to share a coat.

[laura888]

59. agreed. She has a wide audience...

...but Ed Schultz will really speak to the masses.

he's also a lot nicer to his callers, as you mentioned.

[Cleita]

37. She has said so for two days now, but I

get the impression she is hinting MIHOP. When she brought up the Pearl Harbor scenario on the PNAC website, I felt she was hinting at more than LIHOP.

[JDPriestly]

39. I never believed in LIHOP

because such a thing is just unimaginable. But, I'm beginning to lien that way because of the Memogate scandal publicized in the last few days and -- and -- and the fact that the Bush administration does not seem very keen on going after Bin Laden. Oh, and the fact that we remain so cozy with Pakistan although Pakistan appears to be the primary Muslim extremist nation (along with Saudi Arabia) which is also our "friend." Actions speak louder than words, and Bush's actions are actually soft on the real terrorists.

[stray cat]

44. I never believed in LIHOP either.

Although I have begun to wonder since the administration has done very little to improve homeland security, no more attacks and they have used it to its utmost politically. I wonder at the least if Cheney knew.

[RamboLiberal]

69. I wonder sometimes if they kept Doofus boy in the dark

perhaps pooh-poohed the security warnings with him. I do wonder if Cheney and the PNAC'ers blocked any serious steps against Al Qaida knowing that some attack was about to happen and this would give them their Pearl Harbor to bamboozle the American sheeple in to allowing them their grand military plans for Iraq and the Middle East. They may not have known the exact design of the attacks, but they knew Al Qaida was about to do something major.

Amazing how the hypocrite koolaid drinkers will buy in to the theories that FDR engineered allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor but you can't bring up the same theory about their boy king.

[tavalon]

133. I suspect strongly

that they kept doofus-boy out of the loop. I'm a strong believer in the idea that the President knew ahead of time. I'm also a strong believer that Cheney is the real President. I think the shrub is just that, a shrub, mindless yard decor.

[Hissyspit]

57. Please see my post #26 above

Pretty much LIHOP from Day One for me...

[Sterling]

83. A lot of things were unimaginable before Bush.

Not anymore.

[Tinoire]

106. Become as cynical in what you believe they're capable of

as they are cynical in how they view people. You'll then have no problems believing it. My husband went through the same thing you did. He refused to believe it at the time and is only just now beginning to accept it. Very sad state of affairs!

[0rganism]

61. She's been LIHOP for a while, AFAICT

It must have been about two years ago I first tuned in and heard her saying there was lots of stuff about the NORAD/FAA protocol that didn't work on 9/11/2001, and the official accounts of the interactions were all bogus and constantly changing.

I don't want to believe they LIHOP. I want to think that bushco just made a stupid mistake, that it was all a matter of the grossest possible negligence. But there's just too much to ignore. Those FBI field agents were shut down for a reason. John O'Neil (not the swift boat one) left his counterterrorism post to head security at the WTC two weeks before the attacks for a reason. Ashcroft stopped flying commercial jets in August for a reason. There are limits to the level of coincidence I can reasonably accept; this shit does not all synchronize by accident. If not an inside job from the get-go, there was definitely complicit behavior at the highest levels of government.

To the people who whine about "conspiracy theories", I'll just point out that we seem to have no difficulty postulating ad nauseum about a conspiracy organized from a cave in Afghanistan to hijack multiple aircraft on the opposite side of the planet and fly them into buildings. Hell, we'll even go so far as to drop large expensive bombs on mostly-innocent villagers because of our firm belief in this conspiracy theory. Should we discard it all, and say that it's just a big coincidence?

[Democrat Dragon]

120. agreed

Keep in mind that "Conpiracy Theorists" is just a stupid label. The same stupid label used by congressional and Senate Republicans during the Jan. 6th "Boxer Rebellion" and was a word used a lot by the presstitutes when talking about the bloggers who insisted Kerry was the real winner.

BTW, weren't there some people who where supossed to be involved in stoping the hijackers promoted instead of fired?

And furthermore, didn't the U.S wanted to invade Afganistan BEFORE 9/11? :Coughcoughpipelinecough:

Some people might say that BushCo. would "never do such a thing". Well if BushCo. can start an illegal war against a small counrty for their own self-intrests while slaughtering 100,000+ innocent people in the process, fix two elections,desire to take over the world, engage in character assasination, lie to the people time after time, manipulate the media, and steal from the poor and give to rich, then they can certainly help\let\create a terroist attack in order to justfy wars and scare the American people into becoming sheep.

[Number_6]

62. Some basic unanswered questions

I don't know if this means LIHOP, but our government has
let us believe the fairytales:
-that some of Osama's recruits came to America, took flying
lessons, were lousy students, did what they did with the aircraft
(a very well-trained pilot said it would take a year of practice
in reality for a pilot to do what was apparently done with those
planes re World Trade Center and Pentagon)
-that the hijackers were whose photos and names are bandied about
(and the frequent myth that "14 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi...")
according to Edward Jay Epstein and others, Jeddah was known for
easy access to fake papers, and those 14 had Jeddah papers, so all
we know is they weren't who they claimed to be, and also I've read
that several of the "real" people owning these papers were found
alive and not even underground and not Jihadi's in Middle Eastern
countries. Their papers had been used.
Etcetera.....What exactly the frig happened that day and who did it?

[Number_6]

104. numbers

Correction: the sound bite is "15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi".
Sorry, I remembered it as 14. I Googled the phrase with the 15
and got 207,000 hits. Somebody once had the foolish idea that
whoever really dunnit wanted the U.S. to go after Saudi Arabia.

[RBHam]

107. More properly....

15 of the 19 FORGED or STOLEN passports were of Saudis...

BBC news - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

Hell, here's the google search...

Go Nuts...

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=9-11+hijackers+still+alive&meta=

[What Is This Crap]

71. vote for goldmine

goldmine

[GetTheRightVote]

72. I believe in LIHOP as well, the emails are spelling it out for us

just read the reports coming out like the report in the Independent
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=609895

It is getting real scary but the answers seem to make sense as well.

:kick:

[vanboggie]

73. Called it then too

I told a business associate on the morning of September 11 that Bushco did it and that Bin Ladin would never be caught. I even got in a verbal sparring match with an idiot I worked with who said, "The President would never do that." I remember answering, "Educate yourself."

I'm not a psychic. I just wouldn't put anything past Bushco, and it fit their profile. I have never had a doubt ** handlers MIHOP, and the demolition theories/evidence have only bolstered that feeling.

[Individualist]

76. Randi tells it like it is

Definitely LIHOP. I also agree with her that the 9/11 hearings were a coverup.

[Duer 157099]

78. and what about tower 7 "being pulled"?

that little factoid should play a HUGE part in this discussion at some point.

Tower 7 wasn't hit, and it's owner actually said that he made the decision to "pull" the building -- to collapse it. Did they already have demolition explosives placed, just in case they needed one day to bring it down? Certainly there wasn't time, on the 11th, to place the devices! And yet... silence for the most part.

Randi, or Mike, maybe you can discuss this someday.

[bpilgrim]

87. WTC7 -------------------------------------> mpg & flash

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc-7_collapse.mpg

peace

[Duer 157099]

92. yep, exactly. planned demolition.

one would think such a precision demolition (which by the way, looks strikingly like how WTC1&2 fell) would take days to plan.

Why is this HUGE smoking gun/building not being discussed more?

[Sterling]

91. Watch this

http://shadowgov.info/video_wtc7.html

[bpilgrim]

96. EXCELLENT VIDEO!

thanks for sharing that :toast:

peace

[smoogatz]

80. Never underestimate the gross incompetence

of the Bush administration. LIHBTS is more like it: Let It Happen Because They're Stupid. That said, the best evidence for LIHOP, IMO, is the NORAD exercise going on as the hijackings are taking place. But my gut feeling is that the hijackers knew about the NORAD deal, and planned the hijackings to coincide with it, knowing it would add to the confusion and make it harder to intercept the hijacked flights before they reached their targets. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that flight 93 was actually shot down: the official "let it roll" story is a little too uplifting to be true--too much like Jessica Lynch and what's his name, the NFL player who was killed in Afghanistan.

[Generator]

98. Great post

You sound like what my husband would say.

Never underestimate incompetence.

It doesn't add up..once you read the books..my husband read just a couple of pages of the 9/11 Timeline and was like.."How can you not believe it happened on purpose?" It kind of blew his mind. But he's very logical..and wants the easiest explanation.

But there is no easy here. It's so tangled and it's lies compounded. The 9/11 independent report is some good fiction as well. It's not what is asked-it's what is NOT asked. It screams to be asked and with each passing day it get farther away and lost into the mess of history.

[bpilgrim]

103. "the NORAD deal" allowed us to respond more RAPIDLY

since we already had planes in the air.

besides this whole horrid event took almost 2 hours... and would require not 1 or 2 major fuck ups but fucks on a colossal scale across multiple agencies...

then there is the FACT that none of our leaders even REACTED to the news... now no-one can say for sure how they would have reacted if they were in their shoes but we all know we would have at least REACTED.



+ there is much more evidence to support LIHOP and MIHOP that certainly can't be dismissed by 1 paragraph.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
(by Paul Thompson one of DU's own)

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[smoogatz]

116. I don't mean to be dismissive...

I'm just a born skeptic, and nothing I've read (lots of stuff online, including the timeline, and Richard Clarke's book) proves anything except that Bushco thought that rogue states with nuclear missiles were the only real threat to US security. They dismissed Clinton's worry about al Qaeda because they despised everything Clinton. The NORAd exercise confused air traffic controllers, and made it harder, allegedy, to track the hijacked planes after they switched off their transponders. It only takes a few minutes to scramble jet-fighters--that wasn't the issue.

[bpilgrim]

149. a born skeptic wouldn't buy the official coincidence theory...

though many for some reason do :shrug:

like i said, the whole horrid event took almost 2 hours... does the skeptic in you believe everyone was confused for 2 hours?

have you seen ANY testimony that bears out your claim, let alone EVIDENCE like audio recordings of how the ATC responded that day?

so why does a natural skeptic fall for this popular myth?

who but all the explosives in WTC7?
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc-7_collapse.mpg
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf

the same people who put them in towers 1 and 2.

:hi:

peace

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smoogatz]

118. This isn't news to me...

and I worry that we're confusing cause and effect. I don't doubt that Bushco were looking for any pretext, however thin, to invade Iraq--or that they manufactured one with the whole WMD lie. But to knowingly allow a terrorist strike inside the US that could have killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians is beyond the pale, even for the evil bastards currently occupying the White House. They just blew it--a pooch-screwing of epic proportions. All they had to do was get the names on the FBI watchlist and the CIA watchlist on a single sheet of paper and hand it to the head of the FAA. They did nothing. They're morons. Criminally stupid.

[Individualist]

121. Innocent civilian lives mean nothing to criminals

Not the innocent civilians who died here, Afghanistan, Iraq, and wherever they continue their bloody plan.

[bpilgrim]

150. OPERATION NORTHWOODS

"We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," they proposed; "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," they wrote. "The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States..."

The following excerpt from James Bamford's "Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency" (Doubleday, 2001) provides very disturbing information that is directly relevant to the events of September 11, 2001.

Indeed, we must wonder if the inexplicable intelligence and defense failures claimed by US Government agencies are simply part of some elaborate cover story. Even worse, we must consider the possibility that the September 11th attacks on New York and Washington were simply a bigger, badder version of the Gulf of Tonkin "incident," which was successfully foisted upon a gullible US public to push them into supporting the war against Vietnam.

more...
http://www.summeroftruth.org/northwoods.html

Download Northwoods documents straight from the "NSA"
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[bpilgrim]

160. news to MANY - a NEW perl harbor IS required (PNAC) to hasten the PLAN

"the process of transformation is likely to be a long one. Absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor" "Was 9/11, your Pearl Harbor?"

more...
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_johannsen_031103_pnac.html+pnac+new+pearl+harbor

source...
http://www.newamericancentury.org

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[Individualist]

170. Exactly!

More info for those unfamiliar with PNAC can be found here: www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/01/20_pnac.html

[Sterling]

176. Ye they themselves acknowledge they needed a new pearl harbor.

nt

[justiceischeap]

77. I too have been saying from the beginning that it was LIHOP

or MIHOP. He was a lameduck who needed something to polarize the nation. He needed his Pearl Harbor. Beyond that, I've always believed it's been about the oil and revenge for Poppy.

On a sidenote:

Does anyone recall watching MSNBC that day and they reported on a letter sent to the US by some guy in the Islands (I don't remember which Islands, Cayman maybe, who outlined what was going to happen? It was reported that one time and then it was never spoken about again. That's when I decided it was either a LIHOP or MIHOP situation.)

[The Minus World]

79. And Why Not?

Any member of the fact-based community who questions the rule-by-divine-right exercised by our Republican leadership, is likely to have their preconceptions about 9/11 challenged at one point or another.

It just takes a bit of scratching at the surface, and one eventually discovers the sheer enormity of information that has been supressed, distorted or ignored on the subject. A simple logical leap from that point, and one can easily assume that there is a coordinated effort to persuade the American people that such information is irrelevant.

Imagine the tremendous effort needed to convince Americans of two simultaneously conflicting "truths":

1.) In order to prevent future 9/11-like events, Americans must surrender certain basic civil liberties. Many, the surrendering of which, will have little-to-no impact on how we fight or prevent terrorism.

2.) Questioning the veracity of the official 9/11 story should be categorized as engagement in conspiracy-theorizing.

So, basically, "This event changed everything, even how we interpret the Constitution, but you're not allowed to look too closely at it." Who is fooled by such shallow, impotent reasoning?

I doubt Rhodes, being so knowledgable in her field, wants to believe that the U.S. government is capable of such an atrocity; but she must also understand that snuffing out 3,000 lives in order to turn America into a totalitarian state, to these people, is little more than destroying an anthill in order to build a stripmall.

The more public voices speak up about the inconsistencies being presented to us as "reality" by the Bush administration, the sooner the tide of public sentiment will turn against these war profiteers who control our foreign policy.

[earth mom]

84. I believe it's either LIHOP or MIHOP.

But I can't believe it took me over 2 years to wake up and read the writing on the wall! It's been a year now since I found out and I often wonder how many people in the U.S. were clueless like I used to be and are just recently starting to find out about the deception despite the constant barage of MSM right wing b.s., bias and propaganda. All I can say is thank goodness for the internet!

[Corgigal]

90. Controlled airspace

I am also a LIHOP, since the minute I saw the 2nd tower go down.

I was stationed at a old NORAD facility, called Hancock Field in Syracuse New York. I am also a former Air Traffic Controller.

Commercial aircraft just don't flipping disappear from the scope people. How sept 11th proceed is against almost everything in the law book for flight. (also call the point 65) Then you have to think of the non response of that day. Hours and we couldn't get one damn flight near these hijacked aircraft? Come on. Then I heard the excuse well we couldn't put up a plane because they didn't have any orders to shoot. LIE. That is not the first response of a meet up in flight. You go approach the flight to see if their is a problem by rocking your wings. You try to do an eye to eye with the other pilot. You have to get up there to verify.

Those aircraft were allowed, uninterrupted to fly their pattern. I wish the damn media asked one retired Air Traffic Controller what the rules are. The active ATC'ers can't "talk" to the press.

[Sterling]

94. Wow great post thank you!!!!

You should make yourself available for interviews with the media /indi and MSM.

[Corgigal]

101. I did do one radio interview

a year or so ago. I can't make people hear who don't want to hear.

[Tinoire]

129. Great post! Thanks n/t

[ultraist]

139. whoa...I wondered how they "lost track" of those freaking JETS

[flyarm]

155. AA flt 11 passed over a twa flight in air during hijacking!

and the twa captain gave the co-ordinites of flt AA11!


fly

[FlaGranny]

174. I used to work at a NORAD base also -

McGuire in NJ. It was in about 1959 or so. I can still remember that darkened room we called "the pit." Computer consoles on a sort of a curved balcony, all facing a HUGE screen where every flight was being tracked. I remember being very impressed - it was sort of just like in the movies.

It's strange to think back on that. The computer took up a huge wall about 20 feet long and about 12 feet high and about a foot deep - just full of wires. It was BT 1959 (before transistor).

There were always pilots at the ready to get airborne in 5 minutes or less. This is/was about 10-15 minutes flight time from NYC. Do we no longer have as good a defense system as we did in 1959?

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[journalist3072]

97. I agree with Randi on LIHOP n/t

[lala_rawraw]

117. No, I think...

Everyone should move one more over to TDI (they did it). Unless someone else can explain all of the war games going on that day where simulated highjackings of airliners was the point.

In fact, check out the 9/11 victim sites and the questions there... then tell me it is not TDI. It took me three years to even question this thing that happened to me and I am now a conspiracy factualist.

[tuvor]

123. Does she say WHY?

I'm scanning these threads, and all I'm seeing is mere agreement.

She backs her opinions up. What's she saying to support this one?

LIHOP wouldn't surprise me, but what's her evidence, what made her come to this conclusion, anyone know?

[bpilgrim]

151. she cited many pieces of evidence, as she always does ----------> MP3

listen here...
WhiteRoseSociety MP3

peace

[lala_rawraw]

167. How much

Evidence is needed... ask your questions and I will get the links as needed. There is more than enough evidence.

[Laurab]

124. There was a time I would have thought all of you were loony

Not anymore. Add me to the (at least) LIHOP, believers. After a few years of *co and their evilness, I put nothing past them. Human lives mean nothing to them. The thing that push me over the edge to believing, is the way they have continually tried to fight any type of investigation into that day. That alone tells me there's something to hide. Then there are the other little things like the Saudi's and their private airplanes out of the country, the disgusting and constant use of that day for political motives, their failure to provide adequate resources for the victims, and on and on.


Initially I thought they just didn't want people to know how inept they'd been in responding to warnings, but they've fought investigations too long, and too hard for it to be just that. They've lied under oath, I believe some people have refused to testify at all, and simple common sense tells me they've got something to hide. They've got a LOT to hide, but I believe it probably all starts here. So many things just don't add up, otherwise.

These people are the epitome of evil.

[flyarm]

156. i am MIHOP !

i have no doubt it was MIHOP..and i am a 1 yr retired american airlines flt attendant ny base

i have no doubt..none
have had no doubt since day one!
fly

[fooj]

126. I've been thinking along these lines for about half a year or so...

It was almost too much to wrap my mind around...I mean...well, you guys know what I'm trying to say. You know what? I go back and forth emotionally between COMPLETE RAGE and PROFOUND SADNESS. Betrayed by our own. :cry: :cry: :cry: It's frickin way beyond evil...

[ultraist]

136. I've thought that since day 1

And after I saw the tape of Bush and the weird looks on his face while it was happening, I was more convinced. He looked very strange and nervous. A Hitler type of nervous and paranoid.

There is a LOT we don't know.

[FreedomAngel82]

137. I'm not sure if I heard this

what is LIHOP?

[ultraist]

144. Let it happen on purpose LIHOP

That evil bastard looks guilty as hell!

[fujiyama]

152. I myself

lean toward LIHOCUFI (Let it happen on complete utter fuckin incompetance), but LIHOP isn't really that far away.

The way I see it is that the government purposely ignored any evidence of terrorism being a major threat...so I see it in effect as negligence. I think their interests were obviously elsewhere (Iraq, missile defence) and regardless of how many warnings the Clinton administration gave before they left, they still dismissed it.

Either way I think he should have been impeached. I think neglecting to protect the people you swear to do so is a crime in itself.

[Skittles]

161. yup

it's obvious they let it happen; the thing is to find out if they did it on purpopse to further their fascist goals

[Pooka Fey]

157. MIHOP. n/t

[RBHam]

169. punt

bat

[FlaGranny]

172. I used to listen to Randi

in Florida before she moved to NY and went national. She used to dismiss LIHOP - she was very skeptical. She has been slowly changing her mind ever since and she now seems to be convinced and with good reason.

Good wishes to her on her surgery next week. I hope she has a speedy recovery.

[lonestarnot]

173. I think RR really believes MIHOP... She smart cookie. Knows all action

economically based. What better way to steal from a mass than through a scare to the mass? particularly one as large and powerful as U.S. ...

bushitler the great deceiver.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

177. !LIHOP 100%!

[stirringstill]

185. Waking up

It took me a year or so to begin to wake up and see the Bush administration for what it is. So many pieces are missing and so many pieces will never be found but at the least, I am clear in my opinion that the official version of what happened on 9-11 is a scam. I think more and more Americans will begin to question 9-11 as the lies of BUSH administration continue unabated during his second term. LIHOP is for me the simplest explanation. MIHOP could well apply to a select few members of the administration or members of the parapolitcal community. Do I think the case has been proven and I would say NO. Deniable plausibility still protects the Bush administration but the strength of such a defense seems to be eroding over time. We'll see.

One thing I have found quite fascinating is going back and reading the reporting on the threat of terrorism, IRAQ, bin Laden, and bioterrorism (specifically Anthrax) in the months leading up to 9-11. (NYT, WaTimes and WaPo) If LIHOP or MIHOP apply to 9-11 then I would predict seeds were deliberately planted in the press and thus in the national psyche so that our perception of 9-11 would be preframed. I posit this would be an essential component of any LIHOP or MIHOP conspiracy. For an example, what was the friend of Perle and Wolfie and INC shill, NYTimes reporter Ms. Judith Miller writing about? I am not suggesting Miller had any information about 9-11 and such searches do not PROVE LIHOP or MIHOP, but one can not help being struck by the parallels to how we were sold the threat of Saddam leading up to our invasion of IRAQ.