Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What would happen if these 9/11 reports came out before....?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:40 PM
Original message
What would happen if these 9/11 reports came out before....?
- Prez election 2004
- Condi nomination

Would it have made a difference in the outcomes?

I guess if it would for the election, that answers the Condi nomination...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. nothing
the whores will just paint it as the liberal media out to get poor george w. bush
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Sadly, I think you are right...
I thought it was going to be the October suprise... Wait, UBL, did pop up a day before...hmm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. That's the word that came to my mind too. The other side doesn't give
a shit about the truth. It's all about promoting their smaller government, agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. I bet a lot of folks would have reconsidered
how safe they are with the blivet in power if they had known what had been covered up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Guess the engineer, Rove thought they would make a difiference, and that
is why he made sure they did not come out before the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hard to be sure, but...
Hard to be sure, but fear that it would change election results was clearly the only reason the report was (is) delayed.

No other way to look at it that I can think of. The White House resisted there even being an investigation in the first place. Then it delayed the investigation it could not stop, and hamstrung it by placing limitations on what it could examine.

THEN it delayed the release of the results.

The White house clearly fears the report will do damage to the administration. If it has its way this report will be encased in concrete and buried at sea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. I wish you'd replay your comments.
They are right on, and I think it's additional food for thought that might have been forgotten. I'd do it, but they're your comments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Replay?
Not sure what is meant by that?

But it's nice to know others hear the thoughts. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I meant outsource to GD/Lounge, everywhere!
Maybe recycle or regenerate is the word, but whatever works! :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Heheh
Generally, post more often, eh?

I'll try to loosen my tongue a bit. :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think it's obvious. Bush held back the truth, cheated in the
debates and rigged the election and it took all three.

I almost got tears in my eyes thinking about the victims when I saw the part in Clarke's "Strategy" (Appendix A) about "see and shoot" with Predators and Hellfires. If we had had someone with a brain in the White House, Bin Laden could easily have been a dead man well before 9/11 and since he had declared war on us, he was fair game.

The Republican word weasels are arguing that a "strategy" is not a "plan" so Condi is not a liar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't think anything could have changed the election.
The fix was in. As for Condi, as long as there is a majority of Republicans in Congress and Democrats like Joe Lieberman, she would have been confirmed. Look what she and some of the others were responsible for and they either got promotions or medals. It's sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I agree: We've long known the "fix was in"
We didn't have a chance. Nothing would have made a difference in this rigged election. The White House was stolen in 2000, the means to maintain power were given a trial run in 2002 (Georgia), and 2004 was a foregone conclusion. This after 20 years of monopolizing the media and tearing down a Democratic President. Truly, truly a sad state of affairs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well, the Bushies thought they would make a difference so they kept them
tucked away till afterwards.

But, I doubt the mediawhores would have stopped propping Bush up on the "terror" issue. They really promoted the idea it was his strong issue.....HAH...how sad is that? The most incompetent person who REFUSED to read the Hart-Rudman report on global terror, and the media pretends he's great.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. At least the military should notify the public before Wargames
See post at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1585478

and KICK it to the front page.

The 9-11 Families should be able to join with Dems in Congress and maybe the Special Prosecutor law, expired June 30, 1999, can be revived...in time to really look into the events of 9-11-01 and what went beforehand.

Ptech should be on the top burners right now but I'm hearing nothing about it...why ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. 911 Commsion was a White Wash.
They knew it was LIHOP then and they know it now.

The CIA Report on the 911 Attack was supposed to come out two months before the election. It still has not surfaced.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Please note also that Enron's Kenny Boy has not been to trial
and that Enron had MANY CIA on the payroll. Makes you wonder if the company was a proprietary, huh ? And the whole pipeline to India thing...natural gas 'gaming' of CA...Geeez. Maybe that's why Cheney didn't want that court case by SierraClub/JudicialWatch going through; the truth might have come out that way.

ENRON GAVE TALIBAN $MILLIONS
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/stories/feature.cfm?instanceid=22359

"When Clinton was bombing Bin Laden camps in Afghanistan in 1998, Enron was making payoffs to Taliban and Bin Laden operatives to keep the pipeline project alive. And there's no way that anyone could NOT have known of the Taliban and Bin Laden connection at that time, especially Enron who had CIA agents on its payroll!"


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. i don't know if it would have changed the outcome but i think
there would have been more coverage on how this memo spotlights why the bush bots didn't take the oath before they sat down to testify.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. It would have shifted many votes
if it got fair coverage then. It's true many bush fans would find a way to excuse it, but there were some that voted for him because he'd do anything "to keep us safe".

I'm not sure it could have changed the election, though if there'd been great outrage about ignored warnings, the rigged outcome would have been too obvious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. THE FAA KNEW! But were they set up?
THE FAA KNEW!

But were they set up?

By

Michael Kane

© Copyright 2005, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

February 14, 2005, PST 1200 (FTW) A recently declassified document reveals the FAA was warned about hijacking threats prior to 9/11. If the FAA was warned, who warned them?

The answer is on page 61 of the now declassified document. The intelligence came from CIA, FBI and the State Department. But from page 53 to the very end, this document is so heavily redacted that it's impossible to decipher just what it reveals.

http://www.familiesofseptember11.org/includes/viewfile.asp?vfile=../docs/staff_report_3.pdf

The scapegoating of the FAA is a continuation of the 9/11 Commission's agenda: to direct attention away from NORAD & NCA (National Command Authority - Commander in Chief) responsibilities for what happened on 9/11.

However, the Air Force itself has cleared the FAA of any wrong doing on 9/11.

In a book commissioned by the Air Force documenting what happened on 9/11 titled "Air War Over America," it is consistently and repeatedly stated that the FAA was "Johny-on-the-spot" that morning. Flight 11 was reported off-course to the military by FAA before 8:30 am. The 9/11 Commission report and the Air Force account directly conflict; it's as if they were documenting two separate events.

The real issue with the FAA on 9/11 is Ptech.

Ptech (now Go Agile) was the company that supplied the enterprise architecture software for most of the federal government and its military agencies. This included the Whitehouse, Secret Service, Air Force and FAA. This software is able to analyze the critical data throughout an enterprise in real-time. For federal aviation, the most critical data of all lies on FAA radar screens.

Ptech was owned and funded by Saudi terror financiers with reported links to the Bush administration. But it was the Clinton administration that granted Ptech high military security clearance in 1996, when they began receiving contracts throughout the entire federal government.

Why wasn't Ptech ever mentioned in the 9/11 Commission report? Why is the FAA being blamed for 9/11 without any mention of the appalling fact that Ptech was in the FAA for (at least) 2 years with access to their entire data blueprint and all FAA databases?

Ptech's software is powerful enough to have allowed intentional, specific manipulation of real-time information on FAA radar screens. Remember, on 9/11 the Air Force was in the middle of simulated war games that involved false blips, referred to as "radar injects," on FAA screens (see Crossing the Rubicon for full documentation). Add into this equation the very real possibility of such an inject remaining on FAA screens after the war games were called off - which seems to be exactly what happened.

The FAA, Ptech, and "phantom flight 11"
In the 9/11 Commission report a "phantom flight 11" was added to the official version of what happened that day. A tape was played at the final commission hearing on June 17, 2004, of a woman from the FAA telling NORAD that flight 11 was still airborne at 9:24 am, long after it had actually struck the WTC. Originally this was reported to be the time when the FAA notified NORAD that flight 77 was off course and headed to the Pentagon.

This information was used by the commission to claim NORAD had never been informed that flight 77 was headed towards Washington D.C., leaving the FAA holding the bag for the penetration of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world. The commission's report states that they were "unable to identify the source of this mistaken FAA information."

It has been clearly documented that "false blips," or radar injects, were placed on FAA radar screens on the morning of 9/11 as part of the Air Force war games that morning. "Phantom flight 11" fits the description of a "false blip." If it was, in fact, a radar inject, that would explain why the 9/11 commission was unable to locate the source of the "mistaken FAA information." The 9/11 war games are classified and specific information regarding such details is not publicly available. We do know by the time "phantom flight 11" appeared on FAA screens - 9:24 am - the war games had reportedly been called off.

So what was it doing there?

FTW's position is that "phantom flight 11" was injected onto FAA radar screens by "the maestro" of the 9/11 war games (either Dick Cheney or General Ralph "Ed" Eberhart) using Ptech software to override FAA systems. Let's examine the feasibility of such a scenario.

Ptech had been working on the data blueprint of the FAA's entire network for 2 years prior to 9/11. Their confidential business plan lays out just how much access they had to the FAA's data systems.

Ptech Inc. Confidential Business Plan: Page 37 of 46, 11/7/2001

The FAA recognized the need for leveraging its IT investment, with a means of centralizing activities and introducing consistency and compatibility within the operating systems environment. A Ptech consulting team was organized to use activity modeling to identify key functions that could be examined for improvement in network management, network security, configuration management, fault management, performance management, application administration, network accounting management, and user help desk operations.

What the above tells us is that Ptech had access to the entire informational barn door of the FAA's data systems. In an amazing exchange published in part 1 of this series, FTW editor Jamey Hecht was able to confirm a central thesis of Crossing the Rubicon while interviewing Wall Street whistleblower Indira Singh. Ms. Singh is an IT professional who started First Boston's first Information Technology group in 1975 and had worked on Wall Street until 2002. She's been an IT consultant for Banker's Trust, the U.N., JP Morgan, and American Express. In 1988 she started TibetNet - a derivative of DARPA's Internet, the service on which you are likely reading this report at the moment. The exchange was as follows:

Jamey Hecht: You said at the 9/11 Citizens' Commission hearings, you mentioned - its on page 139 of transcript - that Ptech was with Mitre Corporation in the basement of the FAA for 2 years prior to 9/11 and their specific job was to look at interoperability issues the FAA had with NORAD and the Air Force, in case of an emergency.

Indira Singh: Yes, I have a good diagram for that…

Jamey Hecht: And that relationship had been going on mediated by Ptech for 2 years prior to 9/11. You elsewhere say that the Secret Service is among the government entities that had a contract with Ptech. Mike Ruppert's thesis in Crossing the Rubicon, as you know, is that the software that was running information between FAA & NORAD was superseded by a parallel subsuming version of itself that was being run by the Secret Service on state of the art parallel equipment in the PEOC with a nucleus of Secret Service personnel around Cheney.

…In your view, might it have been the case that Cheney was using Ptech to surveil the function of the people who wanted to do their jobs on the day of 9/11 in FAA & NORAD, and then intervene to turn off the legitimate response?

Indira Singh: Is it possible from a software standpoint? Absolutely it's possible. Did he (Cheney) have such a capability? I don't know. But that's the ideal risk scenario - to have an over-arching view of what's going on in data. That's exactly what I wanted for JP Morgan.

You know what's ironic about this; I wanted to take my operational risk blueprint which is for an operational event going wrong and I wanted to make it generic for extreme event risk to surveil across intelligence networks. What you're describing is something that I said, 'boy if we had this in place maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened.' When I was going down to In-Q-Tel and getting these guys excited about creating an extreme event risk blueprint to do this, I'm thinking of doing exactly what you're saying Cheney might have already had!

-- end of transcript

Ptech was working with Mitre Corp. in the FAA and, according to Singh, Ptech was the Alpha dog in that relationship. Mitre has provided simulation-and-testing technologies for the Navy. They provide multiple FAA technologies and boast in their annual reports that their two biggest clients are DOD and FAA. Mitre knew the FAA's technological enterprise inside and out, including any simulation-and-testing (war game) technology operated by the FAA.

This was the perfect marriage to ensure that the capacity to covertly intervene in FAA operations on 9/11 existed - in the middle of simulated war games. It was also the perfect marriage to ensure that the command and control of these capabilities was readily available to Dick Cheney via Secret Service Ptech software in the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, the bunker to which Cheney was "rushed" by the Secret Service. As already pointed out in part 1 of FTW's series, Ptech does what Total Information Awareness (TIA, the DARPA program designed to monitor all electronic transactions in real-time) is supposed to do. There are an undetermined number of other software programs in the hands of an undetermined number of corporations also capable of this. Again, top-level enterprise architecture software is designed for the express purpose of knowing all the critical information produced across the entirety of the "enterprise" in real-time.

In the case of Ptech software, installed on White House, Secret Service, Air Force and FAA systems (as well as most American military agencies), the enterprise included all of the real-time data of the above-mentioned agencies. Singh has confirmed that Ptech software could have been set up to allow Dick Cheney to surveil and intervene on FAA radar screens.

As documented by former Bush counter-terrorism advisor Richard Clarke in his book, Against All Enemies, on 9/11 the Secret Service had the capability of seeing FAA radar screens in real time; and as documented by Mike Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon, Secret Service has the authority to take supreme command over any and all American agencies - including the Air Force.

So when you read the Associated Press, or New York Times, or any other mainstream account of how the FAA failed our country on 9/11, ask yourself why none of the above is mentioned in those reports. Ask yourself why the executive branch cleared Ptech software of being a threat to national security on the very same day the FBI first raided their offices. Ask yourself why Ptech software is still in the Whitehouse. And ask yourself whose interests the Bush administration really serves.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/021405_faa_knew.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC