MANDATORY MALLOY: Friday Truthseeker Concurrence

[LincolnMcGrath]

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:hi: :grouphug:

[proud patriot]

1. I'm here , hello fellow Truthseekers

[LincolnMcGrath]

2. First Place: Good on Ya proud patriot!

:hi: :grouphug:

[proud patriot]

21. All children Have left the building ..Yahooooooooo !

My son is spending the night with Grandma :D

got a cocktail and kicking back

[LincolnMcGrath]

25. My boys are @ mamas too!

:smoke:

[proud patriot]

33. Party time

:smoke:

[lala_rawraw]

86. Um... Can someone hand him...

"Crossing the Rubicon" please... or at least point the entire show to 9/11 victim sites that ask questions that need to be answered. Sorry, I am completely convinced, it took me 3 years, of "TDI" to us.

[Skink]

5. Here

:smoke:

[LincolnMcGrath]

9. Hi Skink

:hi: :grouphug:

[cal04]

10. Hi Lincoln Hi all

:hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

22. Hello cal04

:hi: :grouphug:

[ralps]

13. Hi Proud Patriot. How are you?

:hug:

[proud patriot]

23. I'm good ralps , How are you ?

:hi:

[ralps]

45. Pretty good. Longgrain is having another coloring contest in the

lounge, so I just finished a picture for it. I am posting it soon.
:pals:

[proud patriot]

53. Cool

:hug: good luck

[WestHoustonDem]

3. Hi Lincoln! Hi Truthseekers!

:bounce: :hi: :grouphug:

[LincolnMcGrath]

7. Hello W_H_D

:hi: :grouphug:

[Catamount]

4. Hello, I'm back!

[LincolnMcGrath]

11. Hi Catamount

:hi: :grouphug:

[B Calm]

6. Truth Seeker checking in. Malloy replaces Randi this Monday!

[LincolnMcGrath]

14. Can't wait til Monday Drive Time!

:hi: B Calm :grouphug:

[rwheeler31]

41. I am looking forward to that drive time broadcast ,

more people need to hear you, thanks.

[LincolnMcGrath]

44. Hello rwheeler31

:hi: :grouphug:

[ralps]

8. Hi LincolnMcGrath. It's good to see.you. Are you going to be doing

the Monday afternoon Malloy thread?
edit forgot my smilie
:hug:

[LincolnMcGrath]

17. You Damn Skippy I Am! lol

Monday is my Saturday, and Wednesday is my Sunday. (If that makes any sense to you. lol)

:hi: :grouphug:

[geomon666]

12. Oh Hell Yeah

I love Friday Night Truth. Truth so powerful, it lasts all weekend.

Yeah, yeah I love it!

[LincolnMcGrath]

20. Thank You May I Have Another Please!

:hi: geomon666 :grouphug:

[DELUSIONAL]

15. Hi -- checking in.

raining here, but warm.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. Its raining truth!

:hi: DELUSIONAL :grouphug:

[RBHam]

16. Present and accounted for.

Ready to listen to the words of wisdom emanating from the weathered vocal chords of the conscience of the Progressive movement...

[Dez]

18. *

:smoke:

[RBHam]

24. Already mellow...

:hippie:

[LincolnMcGrath]

29. Hello and Welcome Dez

:hi: :grouphug:

[Dez]

34. Hiya Lincoln

You're comfy too, eh?

[LincolnMcGrath]

37. Yep

[LincolnMcGrath]

27. Hello RBHam

:hi: :grouphug:

[RBHam]

35. I'm on hold right now...

my topic: when people act like they have something to hide, they usually do...

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. Let Earl do the talking!

Or is he out on the town?

[RBHam]

51. Youth Night...

Won't be back til later...

Maybe next week...

[codegreen]

19. checking in!

usually can't listen to Mike live because of my job.
but tonight i'm off so i can join you!

[LincolnMcGrath]

30. Hello and Welcome codegreen

:hi: :grouphug:

[sasquatch]

28. Poor Jordan Eason

:hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

32. saquatch in the house!

:hi: :grouphug:

[Nite Owl]

31. Hi Lincoln and everyone

made it tonight.

[LincolnMcGrath]

36. Nice to see you again Night Owl

:hi: :grouphug:

[Catamount]

38. Does anyone know when Mike worked for CNN? :)

[LincolnMcGrath]

42. In addition to writing for CNN (1984-87)

and CNN-International (2000)

[Catamount]

62. Thanks LMC...

He was always behind the scenes then, which would explain why I never saw him.

[Rapcw]

40. Hi Lincoln! Hi everyone!

:hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

46. Hello rapcw

:hi: :grouphug:

[marmar]

43. this email he's reading is making me very sad

And incredibly angry at what this bastard has done to the world and at those who voted for him - again.

[LincolnMcGrath]

47. Hello and Welcome marmar

:hi: :grouphug:

[benburch]

48. White Rose Checking In.

Hey, folks!

I am looking for more small-market Liberal/Progressive shows that want to be archived.

If you know of any, and especially if you know the people involved and can put me in touch with them, I would LOVE to hear about it.

[LincolnMcGrath]

49. BENBURCH RULES!

:hi: :grouphug:

Send him a buck or ten folks, you know you use his archives!

[benburch]

50. Thanks, Lincoln!

These archives are my full time job now. It is a BIG risk I am taking.

[LincolnMcGrath]

52. DO you freelance as a cpu GURU?

I need one!

[benburch]

55. Depends on what you need.

I've designed CPUs from the ground up, but the details of modern CPU design are mostly mysteries to me as I was doing this 25 years ago.

[LincolnMcGrath]

58. I need protection.

Over 100 pings an hour, according to Zone Alarm. I was down Mon Thur Wed afternoon, due to attacks I believe.

[benburch]

63. Ah! You mean a networking Guru!

100 pings an hour isn't really all that alarming if you have a firewall, and you do, I get thousands of attacks per day here, but let me ask a few questions;

1. Do you have updated virus protection?

2. What sort of internet connection do you have?

3. Do you have a hardware router/firewall in addition to your software one?

4. Have you ever run a spyware detector on this machine?

5. What sort of service is this machine used in? Personal use? Server? A mix of the two?

[LincolnMcGrath]

64. Yes

1. Do you have updated virus protection? Yes Norton.

2. What sort of internet connection do you have? Cable Modem

3. Do you have a hardware router/firewall in addition to your software one? Zone Alarm?

4. Have you ever run a spyware detector on this machine? SpyBot SnD

5. What sort of service is this machine used in? Personal use? Personal

Prior to black Monday I was running Norton, Spybot SnD, MSbeta, and Spyblaster. Currently running Zone Alarm, Norton, and Spybot.

[benburch]

73. You ought to be covered then...

Zone Alarm is a software firewall.

I recommend a hardware firewall such as A Linksys BEFSX41 between the Cable Modem and your computer. This will catch most things and keep them from ever disturbing your computer. An attack your machine does not have to deal with cannot either slow you down or crash you.

[LincolnMcGrath]

81. Thank You

[benburch]

82. Any time!

Also, when you get some time, run Norton Systemworks on your machine to check the disk integrity. Often Windows gets pathological all on its own, without outside help.

This is one of the many reasons that I have four Macs, two Linux machines, and only one old Windows-2000 machine in my operation.

[jmatthan]

119. Man after my own heart except

I do not use even a single Windows machine except an Old Casio PDA, aznd not online with it!!

Mac and Linux rules the world.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[sellitman]

54. Hello again folks!

2 nights in a row....whew!!!

[LincolnMcGrath]

57. Hello sellitman

:hi: :grouphug:

[sellitman]

60. Hey Linc!

Got a brewski for a little truthski. Pulls up a chair.

:toast:

[sasquatch]

56. Let's vote this thread in as a "Great Thread"

:bounce:

[LincolnMcGrath]

59.

Thank You

[ralps]

61. I voted for it too. at this time it's on the most recent list & the

most popular list.
:yourock:

[LincolnMcGrath]

70. Hello Wisconsin!

[Greylyn58]

65. Time for some Truth

Checking in for some Friday night truthseeking!!

Thank God for Mike Malloy.

:hi: Lincoln and :hi: Fellow Truthseekers

:grouphug:

[LincolnMcGrath]

72. Hello Greylyn

:hi: :grouphug:

[Liberal_Dog]

66. Greetings To All Truthseekers!

:hi: :hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

74. Hi Lib_Dog

:hi: :grouphug:

[RBHam]

67. A question I'd like to ask Mr. Churchill

Mr. Churchill, do you realize that you perpetrate a State Media-planted myth that "Arab Islamic Extremists" were soley responsible for the engineering and execution of 9-11? Are you aware that even FBI Czar Mueller said that the hijacker's passports were all stolen or forged...

We don't know, for certain, WHO were on those flights.

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive
At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive. ... How can the 9/11 Commission be
taken seriously when they refer to 9/11 'hijackers' who are still alive? ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
... suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive. FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged
on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in ...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm - 51k - Cached - Similar pages

9-11 "Hijackers" Still Alive
... The full list of the 9/11 hijackers names was released on 9 ... Alleged hijackers on
Flight 77 - Nawaf Al-Hazmi , Khalid Al ... Arab newspapers report he is still alive. ...
www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/ 9-11/9-11_hijackers_still_alive.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Tracking the 19 Hijackers - web of lies
... other three men named by the FBI as hijackers...initially came ... 01 - Some Light Shed
On Saudi Suspects - A12 Still, the father ... Discovery more TRUTH about 9/11.
www.welfarestate.com/911/ - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

911review.org/Wget/members.fortunecity.com/911/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm
Similar pages

MANY OF THE 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. : Thunderbay IMC
... MANY OF THE 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. by September 11 Friday December
06, 2002 at 10:09 PM. ... THESE 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. ...
thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/2373.php - 45k - Cached - Similar pages

Above Top Secret - War On Terrorism - 9-11 Hijackers still very ...
Above Top Secret 4.0 » War On Terrorism » 9-11 Hijackers still very much alive!!!!! ...
Author: 9-11 Hijackers still very much alive!!!!! Illuminati-NWO Member. ...
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread2339/pg1 - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive.
MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. ... Numerous 9/11 "hijackers" are, in fact,
still alive. To mention some of the more obvious cases..... ...
911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/ guardian2/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

7 Of 19 FBI Identified Hijackers Located Alive After WTC Attacks
... http://www.mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/wtc/wtc-hijackers.htm Excerpt from report ... in New
York, the Pentagon, and Stony Creek Township, Pennsylvania are still alive. ...
www.rense.com/general20/alives.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

Armageddon Online - ARE MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" STILL ALIVE.
Armageddon Online > Serious Discussion > Conspiracy Theories > ARE MANY
9-11 "HIJACKERS" STILL ALIVE. PDA. View Full Version : ARE ...
forums.armageddononline.org/ archive/index.php/t-494.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=9-11+hijackers+stil...

[Liberal_Dog]

95. Great Question

I don't believe that any of the hijacker's remains have ever been positively ID'd, so how can we possibly know who they really were?

[Tinoire]

122. I wish you would get that question to him.

If he thinks anything like I do, he won't want to touch that one with a 10 foot pole though. It goes layers beneath the outer onion ring where things start getting really nasty and incestuous.

[Ilsa]

68. Checking in after

watching BattleStar Galactica on SciFi with the husband! He's in the garage working on a project. I get to listen to the best liberal talk show in the nation!

[LincolnMcGrath]

76. Hello Ilsa

:hi: :grouphug:

[crickets]

105. So I'm not the only one who's gotten hooked

on Battlestar Galactica! I hated the first incarnation with a passion (sorry, first fans) but this latest one has me riveted every week. :hi:

Does anyone have a link to the essay being discussed? I missed the first part of the show.

[sarahlee]

69. Don't ususally post during

'cause I am always working.... but I never miss Mike.

Just thought I'd wave and say hi. :hi:

[CHIMO]

71. Checking In

Hi.

[LincolnMcGrath]

78. Hi CHIMO

:hi: :grouphug:

[Acryliccalico]

75. Hi Lincoln

I'm listening :) :kick:

[LincolnMcGrath]

79. Hello Acryliccalico

:hi: :grouphug:

[JoMama49]

84. Hi RB Ham, have you emailed your info to Mike?

I tend to see it this way too. I'm not sure what this guy Ward Churchhill is about, but he doesn't sound like the whackjob the media has been painting him as, does he?

[RBHam]

89. I have a feeling that Mike monitors this thread...

See Post 88

[Swamp Rat]

77. Just in time for Prof. Churchill!

Wassup truthseekers?! :hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

80. Hello Swamp Rat

:hi: :grouphug:

[Swamp Rat]

91. Thanks again for the MM thread!

:grouphug:

[ralps]

85. Hi Swamp Rat. What's up?

:pals:

[Swamp Rat]

93. Hi ralps!

:hi: :hug:

[Catamount]

99. Stirring images, thanks!

[Swamp Rat]

104. The two in my sigline?

I was just thinking about changing them, but maybe I'll keep them a while longer. :) :hi:

[Tinoire]

83. Excellent show tonight!

Talking about Albright and Iraq. Glad I tuned in tonight!

Who's the guest? & what essay?

On edit: That's Ward Churchill? So far I haven't disagreed with a single thing he said. Hmmmmm... Another media whack job as JoMama49 pointed out earlier in this thread!

[ralps]

87. The guest is Ward Churchill. I'm not sure what the essay was. Maybe

someone else knows.

:hi:

[Tinoire]

92. Thanks! Googling him now. Sounds very thoughtful!

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

90. Bonsoir truthseeker!

:hi:

[Tinoire]

94. Hi!

:hi: Pas d'images pour moi ce soir? ;)

[Swamp Rat]

107. Oui

:D

[Tinoire]

123. Argh!

:mad: :puke: :puke:


;)

[RBHam]

88. Mike asked my question - post 67

Churchill demurrd on an opinion - turned it around and made the question a racist one...

Mr. Churchill, I am implying that brown skinned people and white skinned people WORKING TOGETHER pulled off this operation...

[Tinoire]

96. Will there be a transcipt later? n/t

[proud patriot]

97. There is an archive here

or will be later after the show

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/

Hi Tinoire :hug:

[Tinoire]

101. Thank you!

:hug: I'll check it later because I tuned in late and this sounds very good. All his shows do lol.

[proud patriot]

106. You are welcome

:hi: I didn't know he was Native American .

[Tinoire]

98. About Ward Churchill

Dismantling the Politics of Comfort
The Satya Interview with Ward Churchill



Ward Churchill is perhaps one of the most provocative thinkers around. A Creek and enrolled Keetoowah Band Cherokee, Churchill is a longtime Native rights activist. He has been heavily involved in the American Indian Movement and the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee. He is Professor of Ethnic Studies at the University of Colorado and has served as a delegate to the UN Working Group on Indigenous Populations.

One of Churchill’s areas of expertise is the history of the U.S. government’s genocide of Native Americans—the chronic violation of treaties and systematic extermination of North American indigenous populations. His many books include A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas: 1492 to Present (1998) and The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents from the FBI’s Secret Wars Against Dissent in the U.S. (2nd edition, 2002). His new book, On the Justice of Roosting Chickens: Reflections on the Consequences of U.S. Imperial Arrogance and Criminality, was just published by AK Press (www.akpress.org).

(snip)

Some people feel that those who abuse animals or people negate their right to consideration and open themselves up to physical violence. What’s your response to this?
Churchill: The individuals who are perpetrators in one way or another, the “little Eichmanns”* in the background—the technocrats, bureaucrats, technicians—who make the matrix of atrocity that we are opposing possible are used to operating with impunity. If you’re designing thermonuclear weapons, you’re subject to neutralization, in the same sense that somebody who is engaged in homicide would be, in terms of their capacity to perpetrate that offense. One or two steps removed should not have the effect of immunizing. Otherwise, only those who are in the frontline—usually the most expendable in the systemic sense—are subject to intervention. None of the decision-makers, the people who make it possible, would be subject to intervention that would prevent their action in any way at all.

That brings me to one question, which is, in general, people like to think they’re pretty decent. They don’t like to think of themselves as violent or complying with a system that is oppressive...
Heinrich Himmler viewed himself in exactly that way. He was a family man, he had high moral values, he’d met his responsibilities, blah, blah, blah—a good and decent man in his own mind.

Do you think that applies to most American people?
Churchill: In the sense that it applied to most Germans (during the Third Reich).

(snip)

So if it takes eradication of the beast from within, how would you see that happening?
Churchill: Well, first the withdrawal of consent, people imbued with consciousness to withdraw altogether from an embrace of the state.

If I defined the state as being the problem, just what happens to the state? I’ve never fashioned myself to be a revolutionary, but it’s part and parcel of what I’m talking about. You can create through consciousness a situation of flux, perhaps, in which something better can replace it. In instability there’s potential. That’s about as far as I go with revolutionary consciousness. I’m actually a de-evolutionary. I don’t want other people in charge of the apparatus of the state as the outcome of a socially transformative process that replicates oppression. I want the state gone: transform the situation to U.S. out of North America. U.S. off the planet. Out of existence altogether.

So what does that look like?
Churchill: There’s no U.S. in America anymore. What’s on the map instead? Well let’s just start with territoralities often delineated in treaties of fact—territoralities of 500 indigenous nations imbued with an inalienable right to self-determination, definable territoralities which are jurisdictionally separate. Then you’ve got things like the internal diasporic population of African Americans in internal colonies that have been established by the imposition of labor patterns upon them. You’ve got Appalachian whites. Since the U.S. unilaterally violated its treaty obligations, it forfeits its rights—or presumption of rights—under international law. Basically, you’ve got a dismantlement and devolution of the U.S. territorial and jurisdictional corpus into something that would be more akin to diasporic self-governing entities and a multiplicity of geographical locations. A-ha, chew on that one for awhile.

(snip)

http://www.satyamag.com/apr04/churchill.html

[RBHam]

109. thnx, tin

what's with the ak-47?

[Tinoire]

115. Honestly?

:shrug:

[RBHam]

145. Che Gueverra identity complex?

just asking...

[Tinoire]

114. The Man in the Maelstrom: Ward Churchill speaks out

The Man in the Maelstrom
Ward Churchill speaks out on his controversial essay,
the media frenzy and what the U.S. can do if it really wants to halt terrorism
By Pamela White
Boulder Weekly Feb. 10, 2005


It started when a group of conservative students from Hamilton College in New York, hoping to block University of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill's scheduled talk at their school, protested an essay Churchill had written on Sept. 11, 2001. In the essay, titled "Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens," Churchill, an American Indian activist and scholar, framed the terrorists attacks as inevitable, the natural result of years of oppressive U.S. policies, which he outlined at length. He also compared the stockbrokers, lawyers and government employees who died in the attacks with Nazi "technocrat" Adolf Eichmann for their role in supporting U.S. actions abroad.

The students' protest caught the attention of the national corporate media, which pounced on Churchill and his controversial essay with rabid ferocity. The result was a national furor. For two weeks now, the corporate media has controlled the story, fanning the flames of anger and even questioning Churchill's ethnicity. Paula Zahn interviewed Churchill - but barely let him speak. MSNBC, Fox and MTV carried the story. Denver talk radio couldn't get enough of the topic, one radio host declaring Churchill's essay treasonous and suggesting that Churchill be executed.

(snip)
___________________________________________________________________________
Boulder Weekly: What were you doing on Sept. 11 when you first heard about the terrorist attacks?

Ward Churchill: (snip)

But it struck me even before the first building came down that this was already being framed. It was proclaimed to be "senseless" before the first building came down, and senseless means "without purpose," and that seemed absolutely absurd to me on its face. How could they possibly know? There are planes being hijacked all over the country. Two of them have hit the World Trade Center. One of them has hit the Pentagon. There's another one loose. But whoever's doing this has no purpose.

And then there's the outrage: How can this happen? Well, there's various ways you could take it, like, "How did they penetrate the air defense?" But I don't think that's the nature of the question. That was not my sense. It was more like, "What could possibly provoke somebody to do this?" OK, that question and, "Why do they hate us?"

All of that (struck me) - both the framing of it as being senseless and the amazingly stupid questions as to what would provoke somebody to do this.

BW: My first thought when I saw what had happened was, "Somebody is going to get their ass kicked."

WC: Well, it occurred to me at the time that somebody was finally kicking U.S. ass for the way the U.S. had been comporting itself. Rather than, "Why do they hate us?" my initial response was, "How could they not?" And as to who was doing it, the problem is how many contenders there are out there.

(snip)

BW: So the essay started as a "from-the-gut" response. What were your thoughts going into it?

WC: This was absurd what was being said. No one's calling (the reporters) on it for describing it as senseless. You've got a little contradiction in packaging here going on between the official news sources who are proclaiming it senseless and then the more official officials - the official officials - who are proclaiming it things like, "They did it because they hate our freedom," and other really profound and insightful things of that sort. It can't both be senseless and for a reason at the same time.

I don't think I was the only one with a different response from the mainstream. It just happens to be the way I framed it. Where that begins is borrowing from Malcolm X's thing about the chickens coming home to roost.

((The essay "Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens" was written on Sept. 11 and then posted to the Internet that night. Churchill started with Malcolm X's famous quote, likened the roosting chickens to returning ghosts and asked who those ghosts might be. ))

Well, I see a half-million dead Iraqi children for starters, children that Madeline Albright confirmed she was aware of. This was UN data (on the impact of U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq) in 1996 when she went on 60 Minutes and said, "Yeah, we're aware of it, and we've determined that it's worth the price."

It's worth the price of somebody else's children to compel their government to do what George Bush had issued as the marching orders to the planet in 1991, which is: "The world has to understand that what we say goes."

What we say goes - that's freedom. Do what you're told. And if you don't, basically the way this works out is we'll starve your children to death.

A communiqué from al-Qaeda, in which the relatively unknown group claimed responsibility for the attacks, would later confirm that the plight of Iraqi children was primary on the terrorists' list of grievances against the United States.

(In the essay,) I went from mentioning Iraqi children to Iraqis over all - the children being a half million, there being another half-million dead adults in a population of about 20 million in a short period of time and not during the war... I mentioned the Palestinians, particularly the children in the Intifada, as a direct consequence of U.S. priorities and U.S. support to those who are doing it to them. I think I made a little mention of a bunch of Panamanians who ended up in a trench who were reported as not having died until the trench was opened up and there they were lying under the quick lime. I think I talked about something on the order of 200,000 uplands Mayan Indians in Guatemala. I think I talked about a whole bunch of dead people in El Salvador and Nicaragua, killed under false premises... I think I talked about people who had been burned alive at Dresden. The nuclear bombings (of Hiroshima and Nagasaki), since we're on the subject of weapons of mass destruction... Back to the Filipinos, back to the turn of the century. I think we're talking about at a minimum 500,000 to 600,000 people and maybe well over a million in the name of liberating them from their colonial masters and turning them into a U.S. colony... Which takes us into the Indian wars and Wounded Knee and that whole series, all the way back to the Wappingers, the guys who supposedly sold the Dutch the island (of Manhattan) for beads and trinkets, which they didn't. They gave them permission to use the tip of the island as a port facility for trade, which was to the advantage of both. The Dutch falsely proclaimed it to be a sale, and when the Indians objected, they sent out a military expedition and resolved the problem by basically butchering all of them...

All of those chickens came home to roost (on 9/11), because there had never really been a response in-kind in all that entire grisly history. It was sort of manifested in the symbol of those twin towers at the foot of something called Wall Street. And Wall Street takes its name from the enclosure of the slave compound for the trans-Atlantic slave trade. So now there's a bunch of those ghosts, too. All the symbolism is confluent (at Ground Zero)...

(I) Churchill then discussed the concept of collective responsibility and the notion that some of those who worked in the World Trade Center were not only aware of, but participants in actions that caused harm and suffering abroad. Such events could not occur without broad support from the American public, he said.(/I)

Since Madeline Albright said that on 60 Minutes, (the suffering in Iraq) could hardly be mysterious to the people in the buildings that would be hit. They just flat considered it irrelevant. Or they embraced it. These aren't exactly centers of organizing opposition to U.S. policy.

I don't say they had detailed information. They were not concerned enough to gather it. They simply embraced it. They applauded it. They voted for it. But they're not innocent of it at the same time.

How do you end up participating in this process and being proud and triumphalist about this process and making your vocation the participation in and proper functioning of that system and be innocent at the same time? And that takes me to the Eichmann comment.

BW: Your Eichmann comparison seems to be the thing that has upset people the most.

WC: Oh, yes... I said specifically the comparison to Eichmann devolved upon the technicians of empire. Is there some definition you can give me where a food-service worker or a child or a janitor pushing a broom is a technician of empire? I wasn't talking about that, clearly. That's the only point that's been raised. "How can you say that an 18-month-old baby girl on a plane was comparable to Eichmann?"

Well, the fact of the matter is, I never said that. To use Pentagon-speak, that would be the collateral damage... I don't know that they had any specific intent to kill everyone that was there. In order to get at the target, the dead bystanders were "worth the price," to quote directly from Madeline Albright. (The terrorists) used the exact same logic used by Pentagon planners and U.S. diplomats - "This is an unavoidable consequence of getting at the target."

If there's somebody to blame, following the logic that's used now, it would be the people who put a CIA office in the World Trade Center or put command and control infrastructure of other sorts in there. It's always "their" fault. It's always Saddam's fault. He situated an intelligence office in a hospital... That was the justification for bombing the hospital. Well, if you're going to apply that rule, it's going to come back to you. By enunciated Pentagon rules, (the World Trade Center) was a legitimate target.

I don't accept the legitimacy. I'm feeding it back to (the American public, and saying), "How does this feel?" I contest the legitimacy straight down the line. But if you're going to do it to other people on these pretexts and pretend it's OK, then you can't complain when it comes back to you in the same form. That's the point.

(snip)

http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/churchill_interview_pw.html

[crickets]

153. Wow

Thank you. I didn't agree with some of the things he said in the interview with Mike, but overall I am damned impressed. That is some powerful stuff. No wonder this man is under fire. He knows how to think.

[sasquatch]

142. Are you listening to the Malloy show now?

:hi:

[not systems]

100. The bogeyman Ward seems kind of normal...

like someone I would like to talk to.

It is just amazing the people who have brayed for a pound of flesh
from this guy just speaking his mind like we all have the right to do.

What is wrong with this world where mad dog corporate shills
make a living conducting inquisitions against writers.

What is wrong with all the "Democrats" who have lined up to denounce
this man on this board.

[CHIMO]

102. More Foregiving

Than what Noam Chomesky gave.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/09/1458256

[Tinoire]

128. Haha! I get to hear him on Tuesday! Talking about US - Syria

MIT

Lecture Series on Lebanese-Syrian Relations & Recent Developments in the Middle East - February 8th, 15th, and 22nd, 2005

What: Lecture series on Lebanese-Syrian relations & recent developments in the Middle East from the distinct perspectives of 3 experts in the field (Khoury, Chomsky, and Farha)

When: Tuesdays, February 8th, 15th, and 22nd, at 7pm

Where: 32-141 (Stata Center - 32 Vassar Street, Cambridge)
http://whereis.mit.edu/map-jpg?selection=32&Buildings=go

Admission: Free and open to public. Capacity is limited; please plan to arrive by 6:45 to secure seating

==

February 15th | Prof Noam Chomsky
The United States in the Middle East: Confronting Syria

Professor Chomsky will explore the objectives and ramifications of the US presence in the Middle East: oil, Iraq, global planning, and more. A central point of discussion will be the recent US-Syrian confrontations. He will also comment on developments on the Palestinian-Israeli front. A 30-minutes Q&A session will follow. The whole session is estimated to last 90 minutes.



Avram Noam Chomsky (born December 7, 1928) is an Institute Professor of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and creator of the Chomsky hierarchy, a classification of formal languages. His works in generative linguistics contributed significantly to the decline of behaviorism and led to the advancement of the cognitive sciences. Outside of his linguistic work, Chomsky is also widely known for his radical left-wing political views and his criticism of the foreign policy of U.S. governments. Chomsky describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a supporter of anarcho-syndicalism. The term Chomskyan has come to be used to refer to his ideas; however, Chomsky has described such words (Chomskyan, Marxist, Freudian...) as making "no sense in any science" and belonging "to the history of organized religion".



http://web.mit.edu/lebanon/www/events/upcoming.html

:bounce: :bounce:

[Tinoire]

137. Good link. Thanks!

Well, one reason for the deterioration in the position of the United States in the eyes of the world is, of course, the invasion of Iraq. For most of the world, that was the supreme international crime encompassing all of the evil that follows -- the wording of the Nuremburg Judgment, trying the Nazi criminals, including people like the Nazi Foreign Minister, von Ribbentrop, who was accused and hanged in fact for such crimes as preparing the diplomatic background for Hitler's preemptive strike against Norway, which I'll leave the consequences of the conclusion from that to you. The evil that followed was -- only increased the fear and the hatred. That's, first of all, the fate of Iraqis, as Tariq Ali mentioned. The most probable estimate of deaths done on a careful study several months ago was about 100,000 mostly violent deaths since the US invasion. The number of children suffering from acute malnutrition has doubled. It's now at the level of Burundi, lower than Haiti and Uganda. These matters were barely reported in the United States, and insofar as they were even mentioned, quickly dismissed. In England there was enough other response so that the British Government had to release a pathetic and embarrassing answer. Here, not even that. That's a rather important fact that has to be borne in mind for people here who care about their country.

Following -- that's just the beginning of it. What followed were really serious outright war crimes. We have just seen one in the last few months: the invasion of Fallujah. In this case, the crimes were not concealed, which may be worse than passing them over in silence. They were openly reported, and then, in fact, proudly reported. You could see on the front page of the New York Times a big picture of the first victory in the conquest of Fallujah. The first target was the Fallujah General Hospital, and the Times featured a big picture on the front page of a soldier standing guard over people lying on the floor in hospital gowns with their hands tied behind their backs. The story explained that the American forces that went in forced patients from their beds, forced them to lie on the floor, and manacled them with their hands behind their backs. The story went on to say that this had had to be done because the Fallujah General Hospital was serving as a propaganda weapon for the insurgents by releasing casualty figures. The Times added, of course, these are inflated casualty figures. They knew they were inflated because our dear leader had announced that, which is apparently enough.


(snip)

They didn't go on to say when Afghanistan was a training ground for terrorists, so let's add that. It was in the primarily -- at first in the 1980s, when the CIA and its associates, pretty much the present administration or their mentors, organized radical Islamist terrorists from around the world for their own state purposes, created the foundation of what is now called al Qaeda, and other related organizations, and then again, Afghanistan became a major training ground for terrorists after Clinton bombed the Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998. That led to warmer, closer relations between Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, previously cool, and turned Afghanistan into a training ground for terrorists again. Now Iraq is taking its place. Well, these are -- this carries consequences for everyone, and very threatening ones. Sooner or later, terrorism and weapons of mass destruction are going to be united, and the consequences could be pretty awful.

There are other sources of global concern and fear and anger with regard to the United States, which were evident even before the Iraq invasion. Primarily, the stance of brazen intent for the entire framework of international order that has been laboriously constructed since World War II, and is simply dismissed with contempt by the administration. Just to take one of many examples related to terror, the National Intelligence Council report that I just mentioned predicts that one of the major threats to the United States will be biological weapons. Now, that threat can be reduced, and we know how to reduce it. There is a bioweapons treaty, but it has no enforcement mechanisms. There have been negotiations going on for several years to add enforcement measures to the bioweapons treaty, which would certainly have the effect of monitoring, controlling and reducing the threat of biological terror that the National Intelligence Council warned against. However, that's not going to happen. In September of 2002, right after the Bush administration released its national security strategy, which sent plenty of shivers around the world, a couple of days later, its point man, John Bolton, informed Europe that there would be no further negotiations to introduce enforcement measures into the bioweapons treaty. The reasons that were given was that inspection -- of course, that would involve inspection -- and inspection might harm the interests of U.S. pharmaceutical corporations. There are also suspicions that Washington wants to conceal illegal bioweapons research and development that it’s carrying out. Therefore, the National Intelligence Council is quite right to warn of the increasing threat of biological warfare terror here. However, there are much worse threats than biological weapons. Far worse. Nuclear weapons and militarization of space are surely the most serious threats. All of this is of particular significance in New Mexico, because New Mexico is, as I’m sure you know, one of the major centers in enhancing these threats to survival, and in this case, we are literally talking about survival of the species.

(snip)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/09/1458256

Chomsky rocks! No apologist crap there- just the plain hard cold truth.

[Tinoire]

103. Ward Churchill said nothing any different than some of us did after 9-11

I'm checling him out now and appreciating him. n/t

[not systems]

108. I saw him giving a lecture on FSTV...

last summer and was very impressed with his thinking.

It is amazing to see him get drag through the mud like
this for speaking plainly about the world.

[burythehatchet]

112. you should consider that the attacks on members of the left

are completely orchestrated. When the white house launces a new attack, it usually chooses its victim based on how much damage that victim can do in exposing TMFB ( I'm getting tired of typing out "these mother fucking bastards").

Dan Rather was strung up because he was going to place the guard story into the MAIN mainstream - 60 minutes.

In this instance, Churchill is one of the most intelligent and eloquent critics of TMFB. They are like raptors. They get the target in sight, triangulate it with their various propoganda arms, and slice it up without a drop of blood hitting the floor.

But you know what...a bigger dinosaur always comes along. ALWAYS

[not systems]

117. I isn't a game...

I agree they are out to destroy dissenting voices.

Watching this im sure that there will be a next and next and so on.

What times we live in.

[Tinoire]

121. I do! You're so right

I ignored the controversy at DU because I wasn't in the mood this week (also too busy) but I noticed who was leading the charge and realized something stunk.

Remember Barak Obama? And I've noticed the attacks on Chomsky lately. The MFB are out in force to destroy the Left so that the one-party system can become an official reality. Do they really think they're going to fool enough people?

Thank you for confirming it.

[burythehatchet]

133. everyone has their favorite piece of the Guckert/Gannon scandal

Mine is going to be the developing story of his involvement in setting up CBS and knock down Dan Rather. The fake reporter takes down the 40 year veteran. Doesn't happen without the White House firmly pulling the strings.

[Tinoire]

116. I was just thinking how I would love to hear him speak

you lucky dog!

[eleny]

110. I agree

I only started reading his work earlier tonight. But from what I've been hearing these past days, it seemed like he's yet another voice speaking truth to power. No wonder he has the right wing turning themselves inside out over his thoughts.

You reap what you sow is something the right can't swallow. Maybe they need to chew on it for a while.

[Duer 157099]

111. greetings! How about making a Malloy Radio Show Group?

I mentioned this in yesterday's thread.

Wouldn't it be good to have a dedicated "place" where each night's discussion during the show was?

If so, I will post here what it takes to request creation of a specific group.

Need to see a raise of hands...

[Acryliccalico]

144. Good Idea

:hi:

[jmatthan]

113. Finland checking in

Have been listening away from computer through my headphones.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Swamp Rat]

124. Tervetuloa truthseeker!

Mitä kuuluu? :hi:

[burythehatchet]

118. Major pats on the back for Mike

for having Prof. Churchill on the show. It takes a lot of courage these days to do something like that. Mike is the real deal.

[Tinoire]

126. Yep! Poem: Moment of Silence

a much greater part of the problem is the message he bears, one which may seem ruthless, but which is far less so than the daily crimes of the U.S. around the world. The world is a place of untold violence, and death oozes out of the history books like so much shit coming out a backed up toilet. Churchill's message - stupid insults and polemical grandstanding aside - is that Americans are uniquely well-placed to reduce this violence, for they are citizens of the empire which is directly and indirectly involved in most of it. The question is: do they really want to?


Moment of Silence

Before I start this poem, I'd like to ask you to join me
In a moment of silence
In honour of those who died in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon last September 11th.

I would also like to ask you To offer up a moment of silence For all of those who have been harassed, imprisoned, disappeared,
tortured, raped, or killed in retaliation for those strikes,
For the victims in both Afghanistan and the US

And if I could just add one more thing...

A full day of silence
For the tens of thousands of Palestinians who have died at the hands of US-backed Israeli forces over decades of occupation. Six months of silence for the million and-a-half Iraqi people, mostly children, who have died of malnourishment or starvation as a result of an 11-year US embargo against the country.

Before I begin this poem,

Two months of silence for the Blacks under Apartheid in South Africa,
Where homeland security made them aliens in their own country.
Nine months of silence for the dead in Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
Where death rained down and peeled back every layer of concrete, steel, earth and skin
And the survivors went on as if alive.
A year of silence for the millions of dead in Vietnam - a people, not a war - for those who know a thing or two about the scent of burning fuel, their relatives' bones buried in it, their babies born of it.
A year of silence for the dead in Cambodia and Laos, victims of a secret war .... ssssshhhhh.... Say nothing ... we don't want them to learn that they are dead.
Two months of silence for the decades of dead in Colombia,
Whose names, like the corpses they once represented, have piled up and slipped off our tongues.

Before I begin this poem.

An hour of silence for El Salvador ...
An afternoon of silence for Nicaragua ...
Two days of silence for the Guatemaltecos ...
None of whom ever knew a moment of peace in their living years.
45 seconds of silence for the 45 dead at Acteal, Chiapas
25 years of silence for the hundred million Africans who found their graves far deeper in the ocean than any building could poke into the sky.
There will be no DNA testing or dental records to identify their remains.
And for those who were strung and swung from the heights of sycamore trees in the south, the north, the east, and the west...

100 years of silence...

For the hundreds of millions of indigenous peoples from this half of right here,
Whose land and lives were stolen,
In postcard-perfect plots like Pine Ridge, Wounded Knee, Sand Creek, Fallen Timbers, or the Trail of Tears.
Names now reduced to innocuous magnetic poetry on the refrigerator of our consciousness ...

So you want a moment of silence?
And we are all left speechless
Our tongues snatched from our mouths
Our eyes stapled shut
A moment of silence
And the poets have all been laid to rest
The drums disintegrating into dust.

Before I begin this poem,
You want a moment of silence
You mourn now as if the world will never be the same
And the rest of us hope to hell it won't be.
Not like it always has been.

Because this is not a 9/11 poem.
This is a 9/10 poem,
It is a 9/9 poem,
A 9/8 poem,
A 9/7 poem
This is a 1492 poem.

This is a poem about what causes poems like this to be written.
And if this is a 9/11 poem, then:
This is a September 11th poem for Chile, 1971.
This is a September 12th poem for Steven Biko in South Africa, 1977.
This is a September 13th poem for the brothers at Attica Prison, New York, 1971.

This is a September 14th poem for Somalia, 1992.

This is a poem for every date that falls to the ground in ashes
This is a poem for the 110 stories that were never told
The 110 stories that history chose not to write in textbooks
The 110 stories that CNN, BBC, The New York Times, and Newsweek ignored.
This is a poem for interrupting this program.

And still you want a moment of silence for your dead?
We could give you lifetimes of empty:
The unmarked graves
The lost languages
The uprooted trees and histories
The dead stares on the faces of nameless children
Before I start this poem we could be silent forever
Or just long enough to hunger,
For the dust to bury us
And you would still ask us
For more of our silence.

If you want a moment of silence
Then stop the oil pumps
Turn off the engines and the televisions
Sink the cruise ships
Crash the stock markets
Unplug the marquee lights,
Delete the instant messages,
Derail the trains, the light rail transit.

If you want a moment of silence, put a brick through the window of Taco Bell,
And pay the workers for wages lost.
Tear down the liquor stores,
The townhouses, the White Houses, the jailhouses, the Penthouses and the Playboys.

If you want a moment of silence,
Then take it
On Super Bowl Sunday,
The Fourth of July
During Dayton's 13 hour sale
Or the next time your white guilt fills the room where my beautiful
people have gathered.

You want a moment of silence
Then take it NOW,
Before this poem begins.
Here, in the echo of my voice,
In the pause between goosesteps of the second hand,
In the space between bodies in embrace,
Here is your silence.
Take it.
But take it all... Don't cut in line.
Let your silence begin at the beginning of crime.
But we,
Tonight we will keep right on singing...
For our dead.


by EMMANUEL ORTIZ, 11 Sep 2002
you can also hear this poem in mp3 format by clicking here

http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/why_churchill.html

[crickets]

154. sigh

:cry:

[Downtown Hound]

120. Really good show so far

I'm glad Mike let Ward Churchill on. He needed a chance to defend himself. I found him to be a very deep thinker.

[Earl Ham]

125. hey its earl...

i heard you were talking bout me i was just at youth night...

i hate how they try and force me to accept there religion and sing along when they sing me and my friends altered the words a bit.
:head bang: but i really like to go and hang out with my friends and have fun with them and play dodge ball and have fun its my right as a teenager!!!!

[Swamp Rat]

127. Hi Earl Ham!

Damn straight! Don't let crazy adults tell you what to do! ;) :hi:

[ralps]

134. Hi Earl Ham. I'm glad you had fun tonight.

:headbang: back

[geomon666]

129. You know what..

You almost have to give these scumbags credit. They are so good at not answering any questions. Of course the White House Press Whores are just...bobble-heads that really don't say anything. But even with softball questions....they never get answered.

"Does the president realize the sky is blue?"

"Uh, the president is very much aware of all the possibilities at the moment and he certainly knows that the sky could in fact be blue but he is a man who likes to weigh all of the facts before coming to a direct and decisive decision."


*The bobble-heads bobble even harder*

[Nik Jam]

130. Scott is such a weenie.

How can any freeper (or anybody in general) listen to this guy evade questions and still come up agreeing (or feeling comfort) with what he says?

[proud patriot]

132. Welcome Aboard Nik Jam

when you find the answer to that question
I believe we all would love to hear it .

[proud patriot]

131. Simple scotty's Song and Dance ...ROFLMAO

Oh Mike ..That was great ...Tears :D

[lala_rawraw]

135. I may have just wet myself...

When he did that bit "me love you long time..."

OMG... I am still laughing. That has to be a byte played over and over...

[proud patriot]

136. Totally Funny

:D

[lala_rawraw]

138. does scotty know where Korea is?

I say we put a map in front of him, a suprise quiz. I want to see him find it darn it... I need some laughs!:D

[proud patriot]

139. sounds like a great skit for SNL or Mad TV

:D

[proud patriot]

140. QUACK QUACK

:P

[Swamp Rat]

143. HAHA! Scotty is such a dork!

He reminds me of the insect, "child of the earth."

[geomon666]

141. "Can you tell me how the president will solve the NK situation?"

"Uh the president has yet to see the results of the Iraq election and as soon as that's done we will go on to securing peace and democracy throughout the region."

"...that's not the answer to the question."

"Yes it is."

"Uh...no it's not."

"Yes it is."

"No."

"Yes."


"No-" *Is dragged off by SS*

[cal04]

146. Here's the story from rawstory tonight

Writers and Progressive Publications to Launch Alternative Press Association

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Larisa Alexandrovna | Associate News Editor – Raw Story
http://www.rawstory.com | [e-mail]

Raw Story editors, along with several other independent progressive journalists and publications, will be launching the Open Source Press Association (OSPA) as an alternative to media agencies such as the Associated Press.

The OSPA will function on four levels: ethics in journalism, alternative press membership, networking and projects, resources, anti-smear council, and resources and distribution.

The Ethics in Journalism Board will vet journalists, publications, freelance writers and organizations for free membership, monitor unethical reporting, and present annual excellence in writing, reporting and publication awards. The board will be made up of founding publications, journalists, blogs, and organizational representatives that run the gamut of progressive press.

The alternative press, including publications, journalists, writers, and organizations, will allow for members to share resources, funding and act as a more inclusive fourth estate. This body will not be a corporate; it will not be beholden to anyone to report on certain topics. The ethics board will provide stringent reporting standards for journalists, publication, etc., and various other standards to be followed by other writers writing in different sub-genres of journalism.


http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=63

[lala_rawraw]

147. Can he openly call for mutany?

Um... I am worried for him now...ouch:(

Oh shit, thanks for the link by the way. I was on the toilet when he said that, lol. Came back to find this.

[geomon666]

148. Goodnight Truth Seekers. Remember now...

The Truth will be heard at 3pm on Monday! Don't forget or risk losing your fix. :)

[lala_rawraw]

150. He said DU

Woo hoooooooooooo....we rock man!!!:yourock:

[Tinoire]

149. HAHAHA!!! He mentioned the Left at democraticunderground.com !

:bounce:

[lala_rawraw]

151. we posted at the same time...

jinx;)

[Tinoire]

152. Jinx lol

:pals: