New Genetics Study Undermines Gay Gene Theory

[cushla_machree]

Link:

http://www.gcc.edu/news/faculty/editorials/throck_02_09_05_newsalert_gaygenestudy_print.htm

I have been bombarded by "I told you so' conservatives with this latest scientific discovery!

Snips:

-A study to be published in the March 2005 issue of the journal Human Genetics, and available online now, actually undermines the commonly held view that homosexual orientation is determined by genetic factors.

The study’s lead author Brian Mustanski from University of Illinois at Chicago said in a UIC news release that "There is no one 'gay' gene. Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression."

However, a thorough examination of the actual report reveals no statistically significant findings for any of these DNA regions.

-In summary, the Mustanski study finds no significant relationship between DNA regions and self-reported sexual orientation. Available evidence suggests that genes may be expressed via the interaction of temperament with certain environments. Practically, then, at present, one cannot know with any degree of certainty that a gene or combination of genes will distinguish why one man is homosexual and another is not.

Now, there is a lot that i have found amiss with this 'study'

1. "There is no one 'gay' gene. Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression."

NO ::beep:: sherlock! Is there anyone out there who thinks there is a single gay gene?

2. "Thus, even the author's "strongest finding" was not statistically significant by widely accepted scientific criteria."

enough said.

3. I find it incredibly interesting that the author of the study is a professor of Biology at Grove City College. What is grove city college one might ask? A christian college that "will strengthen their children's spiritual and moral character." It "remains true to the vision of its founders. Rejecting relativism and secularism, it fosters intellectual, moral, spiritual, and social development consistent with a commitment to Christian truth, morals, and freedom. The ethical absolutes of the Ten Commandments and Christ's moral teachings guide the effort to develop intellect and character in the classroom, chapel, and cocurricular activities."

As of yet, this article appears to only be making its way like a raging fire across conservative websites.

[Borgnine]

1. I thought conservatives didn't even believe in genes to begin with.

After all, it's science (Devil thinking!).

[hector459]

31. If it is adequately peer reviewed, it will go up in flames.

Not to worry.

[Placebo]

2. "Gay Gene"? Maybe not. But is it a choice? HELL NO!

I certainly didn't choose to be gay, it f'n chose me.

[ender]

15. i strongly doubt that there is a gay gene.

if there were a gay gene, it would be an evolutionary disadvantage, as it would lead to limiting the reproduction of itself.

i've got an unpopular opinion on this subject, but one that hold as true, and will defend.

[ultraist]

27. Not if it's rare, it would be natural population control

Some animals have large litters while others have small litters (humans have the smallest). There are thresholds. If those thresholds are stressed, the entire population dies off. We need population control to survive.

Maybe a large percentage of people have a repressive gay gene and it shows up when two people with this breed. Kinda like eye color.

[ender]

37. but then the overall ratio of...

gay vs. straight would have declined, as people who show a phenotype of being gay remove their genes from the gene pool.

however, throughtout time, the ratio of gay vs. straight has remained about the same.

[johnaries]

42. That's exactly what I've often thought - Nature's population control.

Homosexuality has been observed in almost every "higher species."

[donheld]

30. So are you saying it's a choice?

[ender]

33. i never said it was a choice.

but there are many things that make behaviors not a choice, besides genetics.

[ultraist]

38. It's not choice. We are aware of the nature vs. nurture argument

[Ian David]

43. Check out Biological Exuberance

I used to think that too, until I read more about it. If you are willing to spend 30-60 minutes reading about this, I think you'll agree that homosexuality is not a "genetic dead-end."

Biological Exuberance
http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/animals/love_that_dare_not_squeak.htm

There are plenty of reasons why homosexuality has evolutionary advantages.

I don't have time to go into all of them right now.

But here's a thought:

Why is it that so many gay people get married and make babies with the opposite sex?

What force can possibly drive them to fight their nature and "try to be straight?"

That would be homophobia, tollerence, and certain religious beliefs.

That would mean that the anti-gay people are encouraging gay people to pass along more gay genes.

Oh, and there may also be a genetic basis for "extreme religiosity." It's more controversial than "the gay gene," but there is some good evidence of "The God Spot."

In fact, genes for "The God Spot" and "The Gay Genes" may be related to one another. God Genes encourage the passing along of gay genes (in homophobic societies.)

Also, think about the "spectrum of sexuality."

You have bisexual people who are happy to reproduce with the opposite sex AND have relations with both genders.

You have gay people who forego reproduction (usually) in favor of same-sex relationships.

You have celibate people who forego reproduction in favor of propogating their religious "meme structures," compelled by their "god genes."

See:
The Meme Machine - Susan Blackmore
... Susan Blackmore's book, The Meme Machine, offers a solid ... and the absurd (including
alien abductions and religion). In all, Blackmore uses memes to explain most ...
www.complete-review.com/reviews/blackmrs/mememach.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Religion Explained - Pascal Boyer
... But his focus is on what is common to all forms of religion -- or, more accurately,
what ... From the idea of "memes" (see also Susan Blackmore's The Meme ...
www.complete-review.com/reviews/religion/boyerp.htm

For more on The God Spot:
shop.bookworms.org - Paranormal books
... The author calls this "the God spot" and claims that this region is instrumental
in ... include skeptics such as Paul Kurtz, Martin Gardner, Joe Nickell and James ...
bookworms.org/aws.cgi/mode_books/search_Paranormal

The Seattle Times - Today's Top Stories
'God spot' is found in brain. by Steve Connor. Science Correspondent. LA Times,
Wednesday 29 October 1997. SCIENTISTS believe they have ...
cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/images/new_page_2.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

Is the human mind touched by God
The God Spot by D. Trull Enigma Editor Scientists, philosophers and atheists have
long argued that God and spirituality are constructs of the human mind ...
cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/ Creationism/is_the_human_mind_touched_by_god.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

sciforums.com - The God 'spot' in the brain
sciforums, sciforums.com : Philosophy : Religion The God 'spot' in the brain, ... Further,
how does the God 'spot' explain declining Christianity worldwide? ...
www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44533 - 77k - Cached - Similar pages

sciforums.com - The God 'spot' in the brain
sciforums, sciforums.com : Philosophy : Religion The God 'spot' in the brain,
User Name, Remember Me? Password, ... The God spot in our brain? ...
www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=757922


Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22The+God+Spot%22&btnG=Search


For more on "The Gay Gene" See:

Is There a 'Gay Gene'?
... from his mother and father may play an important role in determining whether he is gay or not, according to a new study likely to reignite the gay gene debate. ...
my.webmd.com/content/article/100/105486.htm

A Science Odyssey: People and Discoveries: Search for behavioral ...
... Is There a Gay Gene? USA Today chimed in. ... Hamer's team did not find a so-called gay gene, but found evidence to suggest such a thing existed. ...
www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dh93ge.html

Gay News From 365Gay.com
... New Gay Gene Evidence by Matt Johns 365Gay.com Newscenter Los Angeles Bureau. Posted: October 20, 2003 11:56 am ET Updated: October 20, 2003 3:47 pm ET. ...
www.365gay.com/newscontent/102003gayGene.htm

Gay News From 365Gay.com
... New Gay Gene Research by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff. ... More than a decade ago American scientists reported finding evidence of a "gay gene" in men. ...
www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/101204gene.htm




Jason Crockett
... 5/22/01: The first thing I want to say is that this discussion of kinship selection
is not an espousing a "gay gene," which I thought I made clear before by ...
www.queerbychoice.com/jason.html

[ott]

3. Assuming the study has merit...

Wouldn't that mean that heterosexuality isn't gene driven either? ... Making us all naturally bi-sexual?

[cynatnite]

4. Could you clarify something?

You quoted this:

'The study’s lead author Brian Mustanski from University of Illinois at Chicago'

Then you said:

'I find it incredibly interesting that the author of the study is a professor of Biology at Grove City College'


Was that a mistake?

[cushla_machree]

8. ah ha

Ok here it is, the link i was sent previously made no sense.

The research review was done by by Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D. & Durwood Ray, Ph.D. of grove city college. So basically, we are getting their interpretation of the study, not the original or an actual review.

I think I'd hold out until i actually got to read the thing. Reading through their synopsis now, i find a lot that doesn't make sense.

The reviewers from the christian colllege are claiming that this study says there is no gay gene, but then a statement from the authur of the study claims: There is no one 'gay' gene. Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression."

So they say genese not involved, author claims there are several regions involved in its expression. HUh???

[Ian David]

10. Ahh, Throckmorton! The founder of the "ex-gay" movement

http://www.exgaywatch.com/xgw/2003/12/dr_throckmorton.html

Dr. Throckmorton's Web Site

Warren Throckmorton, outspoken pro-ex-gay associate professor at a small Christian college, has launched his own independent web site, DrThrockmorton.com.

The site is useful for its demonstration of reparative therapy advocates' (re)interpretation of scientific data.

Throckmorton has been discussed before by XGW. We will no doubt be seeing a lot more coverage of his advocacy.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

32. "Throckmorton?" Douglas Adams was right...

THROCKMORTON (n) The soul of a departed madman: one of those now known to inhabit the timing mechanism of pop-up toasters.

See also: THROCKING (q.v.), YATE (q.v.), BURNT YATES (q.v.) and q.v. (q.v.)

The Meaning of Liff by Douglas Adams & John Lloyd <-- This is a cheap link, sorry. Buy this book!

[Ian David]

44. Oh, I love it!

[KissMeKate]

5. I dont care if its genes or choice- we have the right to love who we want

Screw anyone who doesnt think so.


(disclaimer- love who we want implies consenting adult)

[readmoreoften]

6. well I for one am glad

It wasn't swaying the religious fanatics anyway and it was two essentialist of an argument. It also let to an 'illness' hypothesis. I guess we're just healthy normal folks after all!

[ultraist]

11. Don't hold your breath that this will last long

The study made this claim: "There is no one 'gay' gene. Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression."

There will be more research that elaborates on what DNA regions and they likely will come up with more evidence to support the theory that homosexuality is genetic. Genetic research is new and there are a LOT of unknowns at this point. Give it a decade and they may have a fairly clear explanation on this.

[cushla_machree]

16. what i am seeing now

Is they are basically refuting the study.

The way it was set up made it sound like they were on the verge of a new discovery. I can see how conservatives are easily fooled.

[distantearlywarning]

7. I always find it interesting how conservatives LOVE science

when it supports their own agendas and dismiss it as "liberal conspiracy theory" or something similar when it doesn't. You either accept the scientific method or you don't. It's as simple as that, you fucking hypocrites. You don't get to cherry pick findings that you like.

On the other side, if we as liberals believe that it's ok to quote scientific papers and not carefully examine them when their findings support our beliefs about homosexuality or anything else, we must also apply the same standard to papers that demonstrate things we don't want to hear. Let's try to be better than the idiot Repukes, huh?

That being said, it is definitely suspicious to me that the researcher is from a Christian school. At this point, I wouldn't put it past any of these crazy fruitcakes to invent the data they want to have. Religiosity in this country today seems to trump any kind of ethics, including scientific ethics.

[cushla_machree]

13. correction

The reviewers who wrote the article were from the christian school. I do not know about the author of the study, though i am sure he is just as interesting. I agree, i love how they LOVE science when it supports their views, and dismiss it when it doesn't. what a joke.

I keep rereading the article, and it confuses me more each time. I don't know what they are trying to say.

[Ian David]

9. Good job!

[cushla_machree]

25. ?

HUh?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

14. People who believe you are "born gay" are less likely to be anti-gay

I'll try to find that statistic.

It SHOULDN'T matter, but apparently, to many, it does.

[Maat]

17. It's the same twit they always quote.

I believe his name is Thockmorton or something like that - the guy that's a professor at a small college. And there's a Narcosi or something. And another guy. Exgaywatch.com has info. on these guys.

You must not trouble yourself with these nuts; they have no credibility.

And who would think that human sexual orientation could be boiled down to one gene? Many human qualities result from different genes, in combination with developmental sequences in utero, etc.

[pamela]

18. Here's another article on the same study.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050128221107.htm

Genetic Regions Influencing Male Sexual Orientation Identified

In the first-ever study combing the entire human genome for genetic determinants of male sexual orientation, a University of Illinois at Chicago researcher has identified several areas that appear to influence whether a man is heterosexual or gay.

snip

UIC's Brian Mustanski, working with colleagues at the National Institutes of Health, found stretches of DNA that appeared to be linked to sexual orientation on three different chromosomes in the nucleus of cells of the human male.

"There is no one 'gay' gene," said Mustanski, a psychologist in the UIC department of psychiatry and lead author of the study. "Sexual orientation is a complex trait, so it's not surprising that we found several DNA regions involved in its expression."

"Our best guess is that multiple genes, potentially interacting with environmental influences, explain differences in sexual orientation."

snip

Identical stretches of DNA on three chromosomes -- chromosomes 7, 8 and 10 -- were found to be shared in about 60 percent of the gay brothers in the study, compared to about 50 percent expected by chance. The region on chromosome 10 correlated with sexual orientation only if it was inherited from the mother.

"Our study helps to establish that genes play an important role in determining whether a man is gay or heterosexual," said Mustanski. "The next steps will be to see if these findings can be confirmed and to identify the particular genes within these newly discovered chromosomal sequences that are linked to sexual orientation."

****

This study is freaking out the fundies because it is the strongest evidence, to date, that there IS a genetic influence on sexual orientation. Grove City College had nothing to do with the study so this is just some conservative professor's spin on a study whose findings he clearly either didn't understand or purposely misinterpreted.

[cushla_machree]

21. WOW thats great

People have been sending me this article like it was a new study. I was almost duped by it, but i see whats going on here.

The grove city professors created a press release to make it appear that a study disproved the biological basis of sexuality.

The title was "New Study Undermines Gay Gene Theory"

When in fact there was no such study! Brilliant! What a trick. It fooled me for a minute there, I thought he actually had a study to disprove it (not that i beleived it).

[pamela]

26. There IS a study...

but it doesn't say what the fundies are trying to make it out to say. The study found that there is evidence of a genetic influence on sexual preference. The fundies are taking one sentence out of context-when the researcher says there is no gay gene. The researchers actually found THREE genes that they think may influence sexual preference.

[cushla_machree]

28. Somone

is on the ball tonight!

I knew that there was more to their article. It was so poorly written i couldn't even folllow it.

[Ian David]

40. Oops. It fooled me enough to actually forward it. I'm so ashamed.

And I'm the one who usually forwards stuff back to the sender with links to urbanlegends.com explaining the Febreeze does not kill dogs.

[WindRavenX]

19. man, what a poorly written "scientific" article

First of all, there are many human traits that are determined by MANY genes- we call these "polygenic traits". For example, skin color is a combination of MANY genes that determine how light/dark skin pigmentation is.
Sexual orientation is probably along the same lines as skin color- a HUGE spectrum of color just as there is a HUGE spectrum of skin color. As such, that means there are probably HUNDREDS of genes that are involved in influencing sexual orientation.
It's not as simple as turning on a gene and-bam- you're gay.

[karlrschneider]

20. I knew a gay Gene some years ago...(I'm serious)

the only person who ever got me to ...er, you know...3 times in an hour.
:D

[WindRavenX]

22. LOL

NICE :thumbsup:

[lady lib]

23. Tell it to the gay penguins. n/t

[Az]

24. The argument hasn't really been that it was genetic

Its always been environmental to my understanding.

Consider what advantage homosexuality may lend itself to in a species. It becomes increasingly useful when population density increases. In such cases it limits the rate of breeding and provided extra care giving family pairs.

Thus it can be theorised that the impetus to trigger homosexual development is stress from increased population density. It may have some effect on the gestation period of the fetus which gives rise to different development of the brain. Perhaps a different focus on the Hypothalemus which plays a seeming large roll in gender identity and prefrence.

[ultraist]

29. New research shows that genes play an important role

"Our study helps to establish that genes play an important role in determining whether a man is gay or heterosexual," said Mustanski. "The next steps will be to see if these findings can be confirmed and to identify the particular genes within these newly discovered chromosomal sequences that are linked to sexual orientation"

The fundie review TOTALLY twisted the results. It was a very dishonest review of the study. So much for, 'thou shall not lie.'

[Az]

35. Coolness

[Hissyspit]

34. I'm not surprised, I never thought Gene Gene The Dancing Machine was gay

but, I don't know, maybe he and Chuck Barris did have a thing going on behind the curtains at The Gong Show...

[Dark]

36. I don't think it's entirely genetic.

I think the genes make one predisposed more than others, but as with any psychological condition, genetics only plays a part.

[ultraist]

39. Who said it's a psychological condition?

If sexual orientation is a pyschological condition than heterosexuals make a choice. So, in other words, we are all gay! And straight and bi.

That doesn't really jive with what gay friends have told me.

I think it's a biological condition, like eye color. And new research is showing that genes play a major role.

[neweurope]

41. Homosexuality is a proven fact with over 100 animal species.

I'm quite sure that it's not a matter of "choice" there.

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