Like it or not we should pay attention to this article

[dsc]

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/bobherbert.html

Dear Bob Herbert,
You are employed-- with a salary far and above that of most whites.
I am not employed, and I am white man with a master's degree and
20 years of corporate management experience.

If you wish to observe a pending catastrophe, visit my apartment. I'll
show you what it is like to stretch a piece of chicken, the only meat
I can afford, for three days. But there is a great difference between
whites and blacks and your article is a fine example.

Blacks discuss unemployment, whites do not. Blacks do help each
other, whites do not, and from where I stand there is no difference
between the plights of whites or blacks. The black boys I see in New
York City have cell phones. How the hell can they afford them if they
don't have jobs? I can't afford my electric bill, let alone cell phone,
Nike shoes, or any luxury like aspirin.

I can also back this statement up with hard evidence if you care to
meet and see the documents: If I were black, my former employer
would not have laid me off. At least your race has a stronghold that
whites feared at .

I think of myself as color blind, because in the past I've hired people
based on their skill -- and those skills came in all colors of skin.
When I am hungry however, I no longer care. Hunger breads hate for
all color and gender of job-seeking competitors. Suicide is a
reasonable option too, you dig? No one cares about me, the white
guy, so why should I care about you the black guy?

Just the same, I hope you have a good workday.

Signed,
The White Guy

end of quote

The simple fact is that the poor economic prospects of so many people are a driving force in the politics of racism. It wasn't that long ago that places like Mississippi and Georgia had governors who were progressives on racial issues. But they also had booming economies with little unemployment. Now it is a quite different story. It is much harder to sell people on the role government has in helping others if you are selling it to people who need help themselves. If we don't solve these economic problems then we never will solve the racial ones. And calling the author of the letter a whiny white guy isn't very helpful even though he is a bit of a whiner.

On edit, and to make clear, I don't think the writer is speaking truth but the emotions behind the letter are true. When people already have theirs they tend not to be as concerned about the lengths the government will go to to help other people get theirs. When they don't have theirs then the concern goes up.

[WildClarySage]

1. Ugh. I hate when people claim to be color blind.

They aren't- all they are doing is ignoring the things that make an individual unique and worth celebrating. We are not a melting pot where everything becomes a bland tasteless nasty soup. We're more like a tossed salad, with every diversity enhancing the final product. The only people who use the term 'color blind' are people who privately think negatively about other groups and work very hard to hide that fact- from those people. Then they go home and tell their in-laws that racist joke they heard at the sports bar last night.

[jdj]

24. my response to him would be, "hey dude, remember all that coke

you snorted with your frat boy friends in college...maybe that's why the black kid in the ghetto has a cell phone without a job. The fact that your life expectancy is so much more than his should make you grateful, not resentful". I'm continually amazed at how many of the rappers that are famous now sold coke or other drugs when they were young without ever using it or getting hooked, just because the temptation to 'have' was right there in front of them, and the pull was too great to resist.

[gollygee]

2. Black people have always been the "last hired first fired"

And white people have always benefitted. It isn't suprising that white people aren't happy about that changing. Wah wah wah.

[DenverDem]

3. I question the veracity of the whiny white guy.

Sounds like urban mythology to me, meant to spread racist hate.

Unqestionably, there is a full blown class war in effect now, but the power elite uses racism to diffuse the power of The People United. It's not about race, it's about corporate globalist feudalism.

We are all a sub species to rich folk.

[dsc]

5. Sadly throught history

the poor have been turned against other races with an alarming degree of sucess. I have no doubt that the person here is real.

[jdj]

23. it happened to greek immigrants, italian immigrants, chinese

workers etc, nt to mention blacks after slavery. Don't leave out that those in power are always willing to cultivate cheap labor no matter where it comes from, even overseas.

The sad part is the poor whites never get a clue. Either that or they internally know that they are hopeless bitches of the overclass. They are really gutless cowards, in my book, because they refuse to band with minorities and fight the power, instead, they lash out at people even less powerful than them when big daddy pulls the nipple out of their mouth.

[Pepperbelly]

4. This happened in the 80s as well as gop economics divides poor people

as it is intended to do.

These fuckers are happiest when they can get people to the point that they are terrified of losing their gigs and employers can treat them with contempt and disdain.

on edit: I got pissed off at the gop and forgot where I was going with this ... in the 80s, the militia movement florished under the same sort of economic conditions. They shrank back in the 90s and lo-and-behold, here they are again.

:shrug:

[BOSSHOG]

6. He's got a Master degree and 20 years of experience?

Fuck him if he can't get a job. No one cares about me? Boo-fucking-hoo! But I do believe he is right because obviously he doesn't care about himself.

[dsc]

9. He would be in his late to mid fourties

and that is a tough age to get a job. That does ring true. I remember my dad trying to get a job at a similar age and experience level (he had a little above a Masters and around the same years). He finally found one but it took a lot of time.

[paineinthearse]

14. Time out!!!!

This is the most callous post I have ever seen on this board, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I run a virtual job networking group of >1500 members. There are hundreds and hundreds of people in my area who are highly educated with years of experience in companies like DEC, HP, Compaq, Cisco, Lucent, EMC, etc etc etc., or in smaller VC's.

In the 80's the manufacturing jobs started going to onshore contract manufacturers (Solectron, Celestica, JBill, etc) or to places like Triangel Park, NC. Those jobs in turn went to offshore to places like Singapore/Malasia, the Phillipines and China.

Then the technology bubble burst.

In the 90's these same companies began offshoring their software engineering positions.

At the time, all the venture capital dried up. Scores of VC-funded start-up's working on tomorrow's technology, went belly-up.

How dare you say that he should get a job, all the good-paying jobs that had benefits are GONE. I know of people with masters degrees working in places like Starbucks, Home Depot and Best Buys.

I just hope YOUR job is not offshored.

[UL_Approved]

7. Jim Crow laws kept down poor whites as well

The divide and conquer strategy is one that has worked for ages. You get people to separate themselves into groups that have no cross-assistance. Then you get some petty examples like this to boot. Then, you start to play off the phony fears. And thus you maintain control.

Once blacks and whites and other minorities realize that they are one solid economic majority, then things change. This happened with the labor movement in this country, and it happened in the civil rights movement. People will wake up and get the picture, but we will lose even more before this happens.

[AP]

16. On a purely economic level, you can see this too.

In all those southern communities where racism left behind desperately poor black people through most of the 20th century, their desperation set the wage rates for everyone. If you could find people willing to work for almost nothing, how much is a poor white person going to get paid to do a similar job? They'll get the white skin premium, sure. But their wage rate is still going to be tied to what the most desperate person is willing to get paid for that work.

Also, there's an opportunity cost for the entire society: you want your neighbor's to get paid fair wages for their work so that money can circulate in your community.

It's amazing that people would value racism so much that it would be a higher priority than having wealthy, healthy communities and good wages.

The only segment of society that helped were the owners of capital who needed low labor costs.

Sometimes I think the degree to which racism had to be reaffirmed through cultural devices was in proportion to its irrationality. To drive a wedge that was so obviously holding everyone who sold their labor back, the owners of capital and the government representing their interests really needed to play up some pretty vile imagery, language, etc., and you really had to hit it home every day.

[Stop_the_War]

8. I doubt this little story...

but even if its true the guy is a racist jerk.

[Lorien]

59. There's no way he has a Masters and the experience he claims

unless he's *. His use of grammar in that letter is absurd, and more consistent with that of a high school dropout.

[seabeyond]

10. i had four people in under a week say they are bigots

and they have the right to be. as they talk their/our morality and christianity as a nation.

it is being said out loud and ok to say outloud. let the battle begin

[Strelnikov_]

11. The Economic Collapse During The Weimar Republic Was The Catalyst

needed for the rise of Nazi's.

It has happened before, and it will happen again.

"They turn white against black, young against old, . . ."

[AP]

12. People are so confused.

We all do better when we all do better.

This letter expresses a survival-of-the fittest mentality. When times are tough, only a few will survive, and so if you can hold back others, you might survive, and if you're not surviving, it's because somebody else got a break you didn't get.

To me, what REALLY happens is that when society holds back a large group of people from fully participating in the economy -- whether it's for the reason of race, gender, sexuality, religion, immigration status, or whatever -- it creates a group of people who are more desperate and who are willing to do more for less.

When you have a group of desperate people willing to accept lower pay, fewer benefits, etc., that doesn't make other people who work for a living better off. It makes employers -- capital -- better off because not only does it create a segment of the labor pool whom they can pay less, but it drags down the wage rate for everyone. It holds back everyone. A white guy with two degrees now has this downward pressure on his income coming from a black person, woman, immigrant or gay person who says they'll do the job for less just because they have fewer options and opportunities.

Progressives really have to send the message that if you work for a living, it's not your fellow person who works for a living who is holding you back from success.

The problem in our society isn't that it's not producing a lot of wealth. It is producing a lot of wealth, but most of it is accumulating in the hands of the wealthy, rather than in the hands of people who work for living. Creating a lot of misery for people -- and playing off worker against worker, as this article does -- helps keep that money flowing to the top rather than to the middle because it keeps wages low.

[itzamirakul]

13. Generalizations..

Esp.the comment about cell phones. How does the white guy KNOW that the black MEN with cell phones are not among the 50% of black MEN in New York who DO have jobs? It is not easy to get a cell phone without signing a contract and that requires having an income - a JOB. Maybe those black MEN are doing the kinds of menial jobs that BushCo claims Americans WON'T do.

Perhaps white guy should visit the projects where a piece of chicken is a rarity...where most meals are beans and rice...if THAT.

Perhaps he should go ask for "temporary welfare assistance and food stamps" until he gets another job. Oh...too proud? That's what voting for Bush will get you.

A friend of mine who is a social worker tells me that there are special offices for Jewish families who need welfare assistance so that they do not have to come in contact with the black and hispanic "rabble" that the public has come to associate with welfare.
That also means that they remain hidden from the public gaze so that welfare can continue to be painted with a "black face."

Also, she said that when Russian immigrants (and other white European immigrants) get off the plane, they are met with packets telling them how to get welfare assistance until they get on their feet.

As far as whites not helping each other...Puh-leeze...the old boy networks still is operational. The white guy evidently didn't hook himself up properly.

Come on white guy...quit whining...Call Rush and tell HIM your troubles.

BTW: I am going to make sure that Bob Herbert sees this link.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Black people have cell phones?

This is like complaining that black people have DVD players.

These days, if you shop around, it's cheaper to get a cell phone than a land line.

[JI7]

51. cell phones are the ONLY phone that some people have

i think i read somewhere this is true among african americans. many only have cell phones and no other phone lines. this is true of young people also. so it shouldn't be surprising to see young black guys with cell phones.

[Misunderestimator]

17. Whites do not help eachother?!? Oh brother....

On edit.... Man... that was the most racist piece of tripe I've seen anyone get away with here.

[Az]

18. Maybe I should take this schmuck on a tour of the inner city of Detroit

I have seen poverty here beyond anything this creep could imagine. When I hear protestations of this sort I just want to smack them. Gosh, you have to make a peace of chicken stretch for a couple of days. Boohoo. That is heaven compared to the absolute hell some are put through.

[lonestarnot]

19. White guy with White Pointy Hat and white sheet! Cross burner

[Snotcicles]

20. Times are always better when UNIONS are strong.

Without them it's a drag race to the bottom of the food chain.
And thats a fact.

[CBGLuthier]

21. Racist Drivel

The black boys I see in New
York City have cell phones. How the hell can they afford them if they
don't have jobs? I can't afford my electric bill, let alone cell phone,
Nike shoes, or any luxury like aspirin.


If I were black, my former employer
would not have laid me off. At least your race has a stronghold that
whites feared at .


Well disguised racist staements are still racist at heart.

Just amother whiny asshole like my brother-in-law who blamed every member of every other race for his not having a job.

[Just Me]

22. His blame-staking is misplaced.

When tyrannical corporatists advantage themselves, EVERYONE hurts.

This angry, white male has failed to funnel his desperation towards those who are the cause of his desperate circumstances.

If he were truly "color blind" he would recognize that his circumstances have absolutely nothing to do with "color",...it has everything to do with "greed",...greed-driven corporations.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. It's SCAPEGOATING...it's how Hitler made the jews the hated ones

works well for white male repubs too.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Why should we pay attention to this very obvious racist?

First of all it was white males cramming that whole PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY crap down everyone's throats ad nauseum but when THEY are in a position of having to be "personally responsible" for their lot in life what we see is someone with a master's degree and 20 years corporate management experience acting like a big victim.

It also begs the question where has he looked for employment. It seems Mr "master's degree and 20 years corporate management experience" probably hasn't considered the option that he may have to downsize.


He claims if he were black his employer would not have laid him off but he also states he was in corporate management..>WELL NO SHIT SHERLOCK GUESS WHY??? BECAUSE FAR AND AWAY CORPORATE MANAGEMENT IS STACKED WITH WHITE GUYS and the scale would tip even FARTHER for the black person...(have to wonder why he didn't blame women too.

The "black boys" I see all have cell phones...well those uppity *n........'s*..the NERVE OF THEM! (sarcasm)


No, we should NOT pay attention nor should we be bullied into bad policies by bigots.

[dsc]

27. Yeah it would be a bad policy to fix our broken economy

God forbid that people have jobs. I wouldn't want that to happen, which is the prescription I said in my post (which as usual you chose not to actually read shock of shocks). BTW I defy you to find places hiring 45 year old people with masters degrees. If they can use the degree they aren't hiring and if they can't you are over qualified. The simple fact is that as long as we have masses of unemployed people we are going to have no support for civil rights.

On edit and for the record here is my part of the original post

The simple fact is that the poor economic prospects of so many people are a driving force in the politics of racism. It wasn't that long ago that places like Mississippi and Georgia had governors who were progressives on racial issues. But they also had booming economies with little unemployment. Now it is a quite different story. It is much harder to sell people on the role government has in helping others if you are selling it to people who need help themselves. If we don't solve these economic problems then we never will solve the racial ones. And calling the author of the letter a whiny white guy isn't very helpful even though he is a bit of a whiner.

On edit, and to make clear, I don't think the writer is speaking truth but the emotions behind the letter are true. When people already have theirs they tend not to be as concerned about the lengths the government will go to to help other people get theirs. When they don't have theirs then the concern goes up.


There is no honest reading of the above that would in any way infer that I wanted anything but a better economy. Either you didn't read it, which is my guess of what happened, or you did and posted anyway.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. I read your specious argument. Yes we should FIX our economy

no one argues that point with you. Your header says "like it or not, we should pay attention" to this individual.

YES people will find a scapegoat...that is the intent of blackballing programs such as affirmative action.

AND, if this person blamed gay people for his job being lost would you find an ounce of sympathy for his position? I think not.

[dsc]

30. Yes I would be saying the same thing

though in neither case am I finding sympathy. BTW please find the words which imply or state I find sympathy with this person. Yes I want them quoted and I want them quoted today. But we must understand that until the economy is fixed we will have this problem. For gays the problem is our work all the time economy leads to parents worring about their children during the parent's absence. That leads to an understandable, though wrongheaded, fear that the culture will erode their parenting.

Again, I want the quote, directly from my original post, were I state, imply or in any other way lead an honest reader to suggest I am sympathetic to the letter writer. Paying attention to something isn't the same as sympathy. I have to pay attention to Bush's White House that doesn't make me sypathetic to it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. When the economy was HUMMING arguments like this were

being made. This is the LEAST of the arguments we should be paying attention to...the writer is more likely than not a republican or a conservative Democrat and the best thing we can do is educate people as to why THEY have been voting against their own interests.

on edit: You edited out the comment you made regarding people not caring about civil rights when things are bad for them so I can't cite your sympathetic comment...you edited it to obviate that possibility.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. OH LORD..I am soooooo sorry...there NOW

you highlighted the very part of your statement that SYMPATHIZES with this racist ass so I don't need to cite it.

AGAIN...the economy was humming and people were blaming affirmative action for their problems. Again, your argument is specious at best and at WORST it DEFENDS this racist asshole. HE HAD HIS..he lost it now it's the fault of non-whites rather than his own voting tendencies? I think not.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I did not lie...I was mistaken as to the exact edit in your post

and yes..it expressed sympathy and MOST of the posts on this thread seem to support my viewpoint that the letter writer is scapegoating black people void of facts.

and YES..I MAINTAIN your OP is sympathetic to the racist asswipe's viewpoint.

You might wish to determine the makeup of congress, the house and the White House when those bills were passed.

[dsc]

44. It is not an honest mistake to claim that something changed when it didn't

You claimed, regardless of timing, that I had changed text when I didn't. Not only that I had quoted it again, verbatim. You flat out lied or at best were so wreckless in your disregard of the truth that there is little difference from lying. The simple fact is that text wasn't altered when you claimed it had been. And instead of apologizing for in essence calling me a liar, you blame me. Typical of your behavior it must be said.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. Those are both personal attacks...either way the gist of your argument

legitimizes scapegoating. How about you apologizing for that. You do what you typically do in these situations. Rather than address the BEEF of my issue with your OP, you feign indignance at a mistake made by me then obsess with that rather than addressing the MEAT of my argument which is that you LEGITIMIZING scapegoating by claiming this person has a point.

[dsc]

53. actually I don't claim he has a point

I do claim and stand behind, the fact that until the economy is addressed he and several others will continue to feel that way. And it isn't a personal attack to accurately tell what someone did. You, on the other hand, dishonestly claimed I did something I didn't.

[Misunderestimator]

54. Weird... I read the bolded part of your repost exactly as she interpreted.

How on earth do you call her a liar for that? You posted a racist post from a racist and then closed your OP by defending the racism of the racist poster. And instead of explaining how you aren't racist, because you haven't yet explained it anywhere in this thread, you fixate on some "misinterpretation" of something you said. If you really wanted to make some argument for how we should be educating ignorant fools like your letter writer, you should explain how this ignorance can be overcome, instead of defending its existence as if we should embrace it.

[dsc]

57. I call her a liar for claiming I editted the post

when I did no such thing. She claimed, utterly falsely, that I had changed the wording of my post rendering incapable of quoting what I had said. That was utterly false. I would have thought the words "you falsely said I editted the quote" would have been clear but I guess not.

On edit, this is the relevant part of her post that I called her a liar for typing.

on edit: You edited out the comment you made regarding people not caring about civil rights when things are bad for them so I can't cite your sympathetic comment...you edited it to obviate that possibility. end of quote


It is the "you edited it to obviate that possibility" which is a total lie. I didn't edit it at all let alone for the purpose she states. If you are still unclear as to what the lie was then I can't phathom what would clear it up.

[Misunderestimator]

61. Why though are you fixated on that inconsequential thing instead of

the subject itself? I've made mistakes like that plenty of times, when you quickly read a post, then read it again, especially if between the two times it was edited... It's just odd how you are fixated on calling her a liar instead of dealing with your own ridiculously racist subject.

I've also had people do that to me, and one comment defending myself seemed to be enough... to continue to obsess about a comment on a thread made many hours ago, and already responded to by her seems an attempt to steer criticism away from you.

Besides the fact, even without editing your post, as it is right now, it still sounds like you are saying what she paraphrased you saying. I'm not getting the subtle distinction between her "lie" and your statement, other than the fact that you seem to enjoy calling people liars.

[dsc]

62. It wasn't edited between the two times at all

It was edited at 1230 my local time, she posted at 1250 my local time. Also she said not that I think you edited for slimy reason but you did edit for slimy reason. This isn't the first time she has done it either. She has a habit of accusing me of that behavior when I haven't done it. She called me a liar and was herself lying while doing so. That isn't a small thing especially as she has done it over and over again.

[Misunderestimator]

64. Given the particularly racist nature of your OP, I think that it is more

important to address the issues around the racism of it rather than to obsess about someone saying that you edited a post. The POST STILL SOUNDS like what she described... What part of THAT don't YOU understand? So effing what if she said you edited your post, apparently she thought you had. You can tell me she's a liar, but I know her, and I know that she wouldn't have said you edited something if she didn't think you had. Let it go, man.

Now let's talk about your racist post.

[dsc]

67. I have addressed that argument in this thread

if you are unsatisified tough.

[Misunderestimator]

70. Seriously, what do you accomplish by posting a clearly racist letter

on a liberal site? Do you really think you are going to have people applauding you for your white courage? When you posted this letter as a response to all the threads about white males having advantages in our society?

Good job throwing a very non-progressive wrench in the works... it really helps matters.

[dsc]

63. The lie is that I edited the post

I don't know how much more clear I can make that. And I wasn't obscessing you asked what the lie was I told you. I fail to see how that is obscessing.

[Misunderestimator]

65. How many posts will you make accusing someone of lying...

after they have already said they made a mistake ... YESTERDAY. And when the mistake WAS INCONSEQUENTIAL. You think you aren't obsessing? Right.

[dsc]

68. You asked me what the lie was

I answered you. If you didn't want to know then you shouldn't have asked. I suppose next time you ask a question and I don't answer your complaint will be I ignored you. BTW if you look at her first 'apology' you will see part of the reason I don't feel it was a mistake. I assume you weren't here for the Dean wars which is most of the rest.

[dsc]

41. BTW I checked post 27 where I quoted my original post

and yes, I quoted all of the part I had typed at the bottom. So not only had I not editted my original post like you dishonestly claimed but I repeated it accurately in post 27 (where my only edit was clearly labeled as having added the text in question). So again, you lied plain and simple.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. whatever....

aain..when bigotry is expressed toward gay males you have no problem recognizing it and will go to all lengths to rebut it..but then you take a very obvious letter wherein the writer expresses bigotry toward blacks and you claim we must pay attention...black people are about as responsible for this man losing his job as gay people are for the divorce rate in America.

[dsc]

45. again I said no such thing

and I would ask you to quote me saying it but you would likely lie again so why bother.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. exactly..this is hopeless....

[NashVegas]

66. "The Black Boys"

I keyed into that, too.

[two gun sid]

29. Oh, brother. This e-mail is trash.

Sounds to me like one of those Bob Jones U phony e-mails that make the rounds.
I suppose you are trying to make the point that white people in economic trouble will lash out at people of color who are secure. Well, OK I guess it could and does happen. But, I think if you check the web site this came from you'll find that the publisher is a Conservative republican.(Click on the 'About Us' link.) So I do not think ThinkandAsk.com is an unbiased source. As a matter of fact I think that this e-mail is meant to pander to those middle-class white folks that feel themselves losing their grip on the comfortable lifestyle they enjoy. The same people who wanted so badly to believe in Reagan's welfare queen.
As a white guy, I choose to throw this e-mail in the trash.

[BrklynLiberal]

31. This is a racist piece of trash, and it shows how the Bush/Rove strategy

of divide and conquer is meant to work. I think that is a planted piece meant to arouse exactly the anger and devisiveness that it did.

[JI7]

34. it's not just a Bush and Rove strategy , it's been used by the Republican

Party for years to get white male votes (particularly in the South).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Definition of SCAPEGOATING (which unfortunately some DU'ers buy into)

BRIEF OUTLINE OF THE SCAPEGOAT SOCIETY

The Scapegoat Society was formed in the autumn of 1997 for those concerned with the dynamics of attributing blame to others - the core of scapegoating and demonizing. The Scapegoat Society is a resource both for people who have experienced being a scapegoat, and for people working professionally to resolve scapegoat problems.

The age-old phenomenon of scapegoating shows up everywhere. It causes great anxiety and misery. Scapegoats are found in almost every social context: in school playgrounds, in families, in small groups, and in large organizations. Whole nations may be scapegoated. The work of The Scapegoat Society is to raise consciousness about scapegoating and its dynamics so as to make it easier to resist and root out.

Merely to avoid awkwardness we use the masculine pronoun throughout. For the convenience of search engines we use some American spellings.


DEFINING SCAPEGOATING

Scapegoating is a hostile social - psychological discrediting routine by which people move blame and responsibility away from themselves and towards a target person or group. It is also a practice by which angry feelings and feelings of hostility may be projected, via inappropriate accusation, towards others. The target feels wrongly persecuted and receives misplaced vilification, blame and criticism; he is likely to suffer rejection from those who the perpetrator seeks to influence. Scapegoating has a wide range of focus: from "approved" enemies of very large groups of people down to the scapegoating of individuals by other individuals. Distortion is always a feature.


http://www.scapegoat.demon.co.uk/

[JI7]

56. yeah, it's easy to blame others

the guy has a master's degree and for 20 years he has been working in some corporations.

looking to see what the difference is between the time he had a job and when he didn't the blame would fall to himself and those who look like him.

was there a sudden increase in minorities suddenly heading up corporations ? especially young black boys who he feels the need to blame ?

the more i think of this letter the more i hate this guy. as soon as things turned bad for him he points the finger to some black kids. what a fucking asshole.

[Stephanie]

60. I don't respond to blind quotes. - Howard Dean

Was the letter signed? Have you seen the man's degree? I don't believe a word of it.

[hollowdweller]

39. Amen! I get spam e mails like this all the time and it is basically meant

to make people think that blacks are the recipients of special benefits rather than a disproportionate amount of prison cells and pink slips. I get this stuff all the time and I believe it is being propagated by some organized effort on the right to try to change public opinion disguised as good old common sense or jokes.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

40. A different way to put that:

Tavis Smiley had a show on BET when Robert Johnson owned BET. At that time, BET was still pretty cool. They showed great old cartoons all day long, and talked to interesting adults all night.

Smiley had a show on which he argued that black women have to start thinking about saving their money rather than spending it on the hair and nails. He followed that up with a show about how gangster rap culture probably isn't the best environment to be raising your kids in.

BET fired him.

Why? Because they were still a commercial outlet that was trying to pad its profits in anticipation of a sale that was going to make Johnson a billionaire. Most of the products they were selling were...you guessed it...hair and nail products. And guess what they show on BET all day long now that it has been sold? Gangster rap.

So, how in the world is there supposed to be a dialogue in the black community about how to keep money in your pocket, about building up economic, cultural and political power by holding on to your money rather than immediately passing it on to someone else when the people controlling the media in which the public conversations take place don't want people to have that conversation?

[jeffrey_X]

72. Who owns BET now?

Who is making the programming decisions behind closed doors? The white suits who are thinking about nothing but $$$ and the bottom line?

You are right in that this is all about money.

[CBGLuthier]

48. Say What???

Whites will spend their money on high end housing and foreign cars, when they "make it", blacks will spend their money on jewelry and American cars.

Oh yeah.. All black folks just got to have their bling bling and all wealthy white people drive foreign cars.

Give me a fucking break please...

Maybe if you actually knew some people of color and didn't believe everything you see on TV your opinion would have some validity.

[zalinda]

52. I do know what I'm talking about since

I have lived in interracial communities for the last 30 years, in Detroit, LA and now New York. My house when I bought it 3 years ago cost $23,000, so tell me about being poor. I've also lived in upper income areas, my ex-husband's family was rich. I'm an observer, I like watching people, and what they do. When I lived in a $120,000 house, every family in the neighborhood had a minivan and SUV or luxury car. The houses were all decked out and the lawn manicured and chemically sprayed. And how many white people do you know who sell their house and move up to something bigger and more expensive, as soon as they can. Blacks tend to keep their houses and try to improve their neighborhood.

My son went to a private school, the Volvo's, BMW's, Saab's and Range Rover's out paced the Ford, Chevy's and Dodge's by 10 to 1 and these were the kids!! Okay, so most were their parents hand-me-downs, but the point still stands. My ex-sister-in-law, had a Jag, a SUV and a Porsche and as soon as she could afford it, moved into a more expensive house.

My grandmother lived in a neighborhood that "turned" black, until she died in 2000. Ask someone in Detroit what 7 Mile and Ryan looks like.
When I was 6, I played with the little boy across the street who was black, I never knew he was different until much, much later. I grew up in the suburbs and really didn't "know" black people until I was about 17 and moved out of the house into an apartment near Wayne State University. I was curious enough to ask questions of black people, and really talk to them. When I was a "hippie" and lost the roof over my head, a black woman took me into her home, along with various other members of her family.

And, my son and his girlfriend (who is multiracial) lives with me. So please don't tell me that I've gotten my view points from TV.

Oh yeah, a white friend of my son's sold his website for a couple of million, he is now on his second hummer.....wrecked his first one. That was a few years ago, he could be on his third or fourth by now.

zalinda

[jeffrey_X]

71. You couldn't be more wrong or ignorant....

"Whites will spend their money on high end housing and foreign cars, when they "make it", blacks will spend their money on jewelry and American cars."

Stereotype much? Racist much?

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen here.

[zalinda]

73. Well, thank you

you are so kind for your comments. How could I be so dumb? I guess I really don't know what I'm talking about. I should just walk the 2 blocks to the black church and tell them that wearing jewelry, fine clothes and a nice car is a stereotype, and that they can't have them. Give me a break! Even black comic strips make fun of that stereotype, because it's more true than not. And it has NOTHING to do with race, and everything to do with culture. Do you even KNOW any poor blacks? They are in my neighborhood all the time, because they live here. White kids are starting to act more and more "black", because they see the culture as different than their own, and their parents. If blacks and whites were the same culturally, there wouldn't be as much division between them.

You think Bill Cosby or Jessie Jackson is a racist? Because they believe just about the same as I do. Education needs to be much more important to black kids than sports or the "bling". Until there is a change in their attitude to-wards "being white", they will continually have problems in the market place.

Poor people are really different than the middle class, whether white, black or other. And unless you've lived a majority of your life in it you have no idea what it is.

Being blind to the problems in other races, is not liberal, it's racist. Because if you can't see the problems, you can't help them. Hiring a black kid because he's black doesn't help him. Hiring a black kid because he'll make a good employee does. It helps him advance himself so he can prosper.

I have asked many a black person (and many other people) to repeat something they've said to me, because I couldn't understand what they've said. I tell them exactly what and why I couldn't understand. Is that rude? Maybe, but someone who can't communicate verbally has a very difficult time advancing themselves in this world.

As far as white people, I guess "keeping up with the Jones'" is just a term that some racist black person put on us.

zalinda

[greendog]

46. Interesting post...

...reminds me of a Dylan song from 1964.

"Only A Pawn In Their Game"

A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers' blood.
A finger fired the trigger to his name.
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game.

A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks,
And the hoof beats pound in his brain.
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught.
They lowered him down as a king.
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He'll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game.


Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. Ask him if he'd rather be black so he could have a cell-phone.

Whenever I run across these folks who say that the blacks have it made, I always ask them if they'd rather be black so they could collect all the alleged goodies that black people get.

Works every time.

[stillcool]

55. Somebody give this guy a mirror.

[Stephanie]

58. "black boys" ?

I don't believe this letter for second.

This letter is fake. There is no reason whatsoever that we should pay attention to this letter or this website. It's pure BS.

What is your reason for posting it?

[oasis]

69. White male "master's degree" and "20 years of corporate management"

stretching a "piece" of chicken for three days.

Let him eat cake.:nopity:

[Kahuna]

74. "The White Guy's" problem is probably age discrimination..

Race isn't a factor when it comes to age discrimination.