Should I vote Democratic? If so why?

[BayCityProgressive]

Hello everyone,


I have been posting here for a while now and I have been debating whether I should continue to vote Democratic. I am a Socialist and have always voted Demcoratic but I am finding it almost impossible as of late. Both major parties are capitalist so it is really hard for me to support them. I like Kucinich and he is pretty socialistic but what are reasons I should vote for the Democrat. I am not going to vote for them jsut to get rid of Bush- I am not wasting my vote on fear mongering.I don't want to be flamed I am just asking why I as a socialist should vote for a capitalist party?

[dolstein]

1. Well, I'm not going to hold a gun to your head

If you honestly believe that it doesn't make any difference whether the President is a Republican or a Democrat, or whether Congress is under Republican control or Democratic control, then by all means vote for a socialist candidate.

[BayCityProgressive]

3. Well obviously there are differences

liberals advocate restrictions on big business and conservatives do not. However as of late the Democrats have not been performing well in this area even.

[dolstein]

4. Did it ever occur to you

that one reason the Democrats aren't performing well is because the Republicans control both houses of Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court?

[BayCityProgressive]

8. Clinton Deregulated more than Reagan and Nixon

He also signed NAFTA and Welfare Reform...

[Forkboy]

10. huh

wonder how that happened.

[dolstein]

15. The Democratic Party moved too far to the left

Don't believe me? Look at where the Democratic Party lost seats.

[Forkboy]

16. Thats gotta be it

[EmeraldWoman]

2. Because ...

Because there's no viable socialist candidate and because Bush has shown there really is a different between Dems and Repubs. I wouldn't call it wasting your vote on fear mongering to vote for the party that does more for equality than the Repubs do or than a socialist can.

[BayCityProgressive]

6. Well

if socialists never vote for socialists how can we ever have our voices heard though? I realize there will be no socialist president in 04 lol.

[newyawker99]

23. Hi Emerald Woman!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Old and In the Way]

5. Hi BayCityProgressive!

Nah, vote your conscience and don't lose sleep if Bush gets another 4 years. I suspect that, if anything, Bush will help accelerate the day when we are all working together on the collective farms, equal in our collective misery....

[E_Zapata]

7. There is a fork in the road:

1st fork:

Vote republican or for a 3rd party candidate and get an enhanced, turbo version of what we have seen in the past 3 years. Thus inevitably leading to either (a) total submission of the people for a long time; or (b) a bloody - and I mean BLOODY - civil war right here on our soils thereby leading, ultimately, to a complete reconstruction of the American system. A house-cleaning of sorts. But a high price to pay to remove the corrupt (dem and repub) structures that have embedded themselves in this democracy.

OR

2nd Fork:

Vote for a democrat and prepare to work your butt of for reform. A bloodless reform. Voting democratic in this election provides one last ditch effort to turn a corrupt governmental system around. Bloodless. A gamble, for sure. The dems are not "the" ultimate answer to reform, but they do give "we the people" at least a foothold to make some lasting and important changes.

The options this election: Bloody revolt vs an opportunity to make changes without resorting to civil war.

That is the way I see it.

[scarletwoman]

9. Well, don't vote at all then.

Obviously there's NO candidate that's going to run on an anti-capitalist platform.

Frankly, I find it a bit difficult to take your question seriously anyway. Challenging capitalism is a much bigger task than picking a candidate to vote for. Any movement toward socialism in this country is going to take MAJOR organizing of the grassroots. Meantime, elections come and go.

The reality is, this is capitalist country at present. Imho, the immediate task ahead is holding back the tide of fascism -- you can either help or stay out of the way.

sw

[ClintonTyree]

11. Well stated...............

I was going to reply but your superior typing skills beat me to the punch. My sentiments mirror your own.

[BayCityProgressive]

13. LOL

actually socialists do run for president. I agree it will take massive organizing but I find your post overly dramatic. Vote dem or don't vote at all? To stop fascism? Thats rich! If I remember correctly Dems have used the Monroe Doctrine jsut as much as Republicans and didnt most dems sign the Patriot Act? Didn't most Dems underplay Enron? Didn't 1/2 the Dems vote for war in Iraq? They don't seem to be doing a very good job of stopping "the evil fascists". That is why it is increasingly hard for me to support them.

[scarletwoman]

20. I should have been more specific

I meant that no major party candidate would run on an anti-capitalist platform -- I DO know that the Socialist party runs its own presidential candidates. ;-)

Believe me, I'm probably as disenchanted with Dems as you are, in terms of policies. There ARE some true progressives left in the party, however, which is more than can be said about Republicans.

But I'm looking at the bigger picture as well -- at the sort of people among the masses that are attracted to each party. The radical hard right does NOT have a home in the Democratic Party, and however weak the Dems have become, they do not give aid, comfort, and legitimacy to the incipient brownshirts among us like the Republicans do.

That's the facsism to which I was referring.

sw

[Terwilliger]

14. yes, and we must vote for the War Resolution

because its more important for the country to be together than it is for us to question the integrity of George W. Bush

[Terwilliger]

12. well, that pretty much sums it up for me as well

except to add that I'm not totally against capitalism, but it must be servant to the social necessity

[contract3d]

17. a trifecta of reasons

1. The 1990's takeover of the GOP by the radical right wing, people bent on destroying even the current, minimal, social contract between Americans by bankrupting future governments.

2. The Republican domination of the Senate and the House makes it absolutely critical to have a Democrat armed with the presidential veto pen to limit the damage they can do.

3. GOP tax policies (like estate tax repeal) designed to help concentrate an ever-greater share of our nation's wealth in the richest families.  Marx himself would vote for the Democrat in 2004.

So should you.

[newyawker99]

24. Hi contract3d!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sandnsea]

18. Because you want the right to continue to be a Socialist

And you may not have that right with John Ashcroft interpreting the laws.

[Ein]

19. If a liberal nominee isn't available....

NO.

The Democratic Party as of this time rely on liberals fooling themselves into thinking the Democrats are liberal. Lesser of two evils is the call. Even the flamers to this post will exemplify this.

The centrist Dems like Carter and Clinton have given the people nothing substantial, and beyond that in not so long your vote will not matter anymore due to corruption of fundamental voting systems.

The Democrats aren't liberal, the votes aren't counted (like the bodies), the Greens have no viable solution (and they are liberal), and something drastic needs to be done.

[Kamika]

21. all i can say is this

Let me say this. In my dream our President is Green. But thats a dream. Now this will sound like a cliche but to Not vote for the two major parties is to throw your vote away. And not voting Democratic ie voting green etc is technicly just voting for Bush.

So anyway.. what can i say. Either vote democratic or be silent and accept it when Bush invades middle east country nr 2.

Please dont take offense i dont mean to sound harsch or anything.

[H_NeverAgain]

22. Maybe I've an answer...

Maybe I've an answer...

I'm sorry to interfere in an American internal political debate, but as the US policy affects also my life I estimate that I can at least give my opinion.

Then why you should vote for a democrat candidate? I don't know. But you should vote for anyone who can stop the neocon, and this because it's your duty as human being.

I understand that you feel uncomfortable in voting for only to vote against someone else. And usually you'll be perfectly right to not support a candidate who doesn't represent you. But presently the situation is totally different.

It's no more a matter only between Democrats and Republicans. Perhaps you underestimate it, but this US government does really a big mess in the world. And it seems that it have absolutely not a clue about how managing foreign relations.
The recent expedition in Iraq shows how it underestimates opposition and can bring itself in dangerous situation. And don't believe that it's over, nor that other countries will accept indefinitely such comportment. They have already started to adapt themselves to the new situation (and generally it's not good for the population).
You don't want to "wasting my vote on fear mongering" ok. But when an imperialist (who doesn't cares about reality and probably believes that his position is a gift from god) leads the first military power of the world, you'll maybe better to worry a bit.

Then even if it's unpleasant, you have to vote to stop the neocon as it can be done only by American citizens. And from a foreign point of view, it seems that you'll really need to be united to stop them. Because, always from a foreign point of view, the Bush's government seems as good manipulating American feeling than it's bad in its foreign relations.

And nothing prevents you to pursue your political combat once that the neocon's threat is weakened (even if you have to remember that it'll always be present).

BTW, I come from Japan, and I'm in use to live under the range of North Korea missiles and with an earthquake by month; then generally I don't worry for nothing :-)

[Mairead]

25. I'm a socialist, and I'm for Kucinich because he's the closest we're going

to get anytime soon. And we MUST turn the country totally around rather than simply tweak its direction. Kucinich is the only candidate{1} who's talking about doing that. Dean and Kerry are business-as-usual, Kerry being the more liberal of the two.

(edit)And the fact that Chomsky and Zinn favor Kucinich doesn't hurt.




1. Sharpton is talking about it too, but US national racism will keep his candidacy from succeeding this time.

[JanMichael]

26. Because the stakes are too high to play with.

Look, beside being a Registered Democrat, I'm also SP-USA so "I feel you pain" (Hate to use the ruined phrase but it fits).

Read "The Iron Heel" by Jack London or "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis.

That farther that we trend into Corporatism/Fascism the uglier the release from it will be.

We sinmply can't risk it.