Is Anyone Else Surprised To Be Agreeing With Pat Buchanan These Days?

[DistressedAmerican]

Since his book "Where the right went wrong", I have been impressed with his analysis of the foreign relations situation.

I feel like it really is the 7th sign. Maybe the Fundies ARE RIGHT!

I know (and have been saying for a long time) that true conservatives do not support Bush. Still, It is odd that we are seeing eye to eye. I guess he IS a united after all!

[MarianJack]

1. Stunned!

Whats the thermometer reading down in Hell these days, anyway?

[LostInAnomie]

2. For the very short term his goals and ours are similar...

... but in the long run our goals and his could not diverge any farther. He's an evil man, don't ever forget it.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. That I DO NOT ever forget!

He is still Satan but, he is a thinking man's Satan.

[kedrys]

11. Agreed. I don't think Buchanan is dumb, not by a long shot.

We're just used to the idea that evil is stupid. Buchanan is *not* stupid, but he *is* evil.

[Shopaholic]

3. Every so often, Buchanan makes sense.

And it usually scares the hell out of me when I find myself agreeing with something he says. I don't think he likes * any more than we do but he's still a GOP whore at heart and will also remain so. But at least every so often he tells it like it is about the neo-cons (whom he despises).

[Warren Stupidity]

5. keep in mind

that pat has a history of holocaust denial. I look at it this way, the nazis were in favor of universal health care and a clean environment.

Also, while pat is against the war, last fall he wasn't so against it that he thought people ought to vote out the instigators. Se he remains a two-faced lying right wing creep, with an ideological bent towards isolationism.

[DWolper]

22. He does not

I know Pat Buchanan. He does not have a history of holocaust denial. That's just a lie! He has been widely regarded by Zionists as being anti-semitic and they jump at each and every criticism of Israel to "prove" it. They tried to destroy him with twisting his comments out-of-context from one of his books concerning his thoughts on WWII. I do not agree with him on a lot of things, but Pat is a good man. He is not anti-semitic and has always treated me (a Jew) with the deepest of respect. Holocaust denial!! Where did you hear such a thing about Pat Buchanan?

[CindyDale]

26. So ask him why he blames Jews for everything that is done to help

the American petroleum industry and Halliburton, and let us know what he says.

[Leilani]

38. Would you by any chance be "The David Wolper"

of Hollywood?

[Garbo 2004]

39. He said yes in a previous thread, now archived.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2254942#2255073

Not to be OT here, but I certainly recognized the name. Pretty good body of work for a "hobby." ;)

[mdmc]

45. I don't think that Pat Buchanan is anti Semitic or evil at all

I would rather think of him as the loyal opposition. I think that he epitomizes everything that I oppose.

If you go far enough to the right, you eventually will find the left.

[Leilani]

46. Thanks, Garbo...

Sort of what I suspected....some hobby!

LOL!

[Warren Stupidity]

53. nothing much to do with Israel

In a 1977 column, Buchanan said that despite Hitler's anti-Semitic and
genocidal tendencies, he was "an individual of great courage...Hitler's
success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an
intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness
masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood
in his path." (The Guardian, 1/14/92)

Writing of "group fantasies of martyrdom," Buchanan challenged the
historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel
exhaust at Treblinka: "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide
to kill anybody." (New Republic, 10/22/90) Buchanan's columns have run in
the Liberty Lobby's Spotlight, the German-American National PAC newsletter
and other publications that claim Nazi death camps are a Zionist
concoction.

Buchanan called for closing the U.S. Justice Department's Office of
Special Investigations, which prosecuted Nazi war criminals, because it was
"running down 70-year-old camp guards." (New York Times, 4/21/87)

http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/buchanan.html

It has to do with Pat's dubious record of statements regarding nazi germany and the holocaust.

If you would like to wade through the 75,000 google hits on buchanan holocaust be my guest, and friend or not, there are plenty of quotes attrbuted to Pat that you will have to find some way to dismiss.

Here's another: http://www.holocaust-history.org/~jamie/buchanan/

And another:
Buchanan Cuts Hitler Another Break
Jacob Weisberg
Posted Tuesday, Oct. 26, 1999, at 1:13 PM PT
http://slate.msn.com/?id=1003886

Then you have Buchanon's associates, for example Peter Gemma to explain:
"The report notes that Peter Gemma, a senior staff member of Pat Buchanan's 2000 presidential campaign, spoke at a February 19, 2004 meeting in Virginia of the Institute for Historical Review, the leading Holocaust-denial organization in the United States. Gemma introduced the evening's keynote speaker, IHR director Mark Weber."
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=40829

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. He's on MTP right now -- 11am Eastern

[Ilsa]

7. Yeah, and it makes me uncomfortable if I think about it too long.

But I've been noticing this for a couple of years. He tends to be too isolationistic for me, but his point about US history not interfering in internal affairs fo other countries needs to be screamed from the highest roof tops.

[DistressedAmerican]

8. It was by far his best talking point on MTP. (n/t)

[whistle]

9. Be careful, Pat Buchanan is way out there....

...and he will say anything to get people to come over his his way of thinking:

<snip>

11/18/98 - SPEECH - CHICAGO CFR
"As you may have heard in my last campaign, I am called by many names. "Protectionist" is one of the nicer ones; but it is inexact. I am an economic nationalist. To me, the country comes before the economy; and the economy exists for the people. I believe in free markets, but I do not worship them. In the proper hierarchy of things, it is the market that must be harnessed to work for man - and not the other way around."

<snip>

9/19/99 - CBS - Face the Nation
"If there's quotas for one, should there be quotas for all? I say quotas for none. Let's have wide-open competition in Harvard and every other school. If you're going to put quotas for this group and that group, and the folks thrown out happen to be the folks who vote for Pat Buchanan, then why don't you have quotas for them? Let's have zero quotas on any college campus, all by open competition. If it's good for the Alabama -- the Alabama police, then why isn't it good for Harvard and Yale?"

<snip>

9/26/99 - CNN LATE EDITION
"Ronald Reagan was in my judgment the greatest president of the 20th century... Ronald Reagan in his heart was an economic nationalist. Who put those quotas on steel? Who put those quotas on Japanese autos? Who put tariffs on those Japanese motorcycles to save the Harley hog? That is an American."

<more>

http://www.buchanan.org/000-p-pjb-quotes.html

[idlisambar]

25. What's wrong with the first comment?

11/18/98 - SPEECH - CHICAGO CFR
"As you may have heard in my last campaign, I am called by many names. "Protectionist" is one of the nicer ones; but it is inexact. I am an economic nationalist. To me, the country comes before the economy; and the economy exists for the people. I believe in free markets, but I do not worship them. In the proper hierarchy of things, it is the market that must be harnessed to work for man - and not the other way around."

I would say this puts him pretty close to Kucinich, whose views on economics and trade I hold in great respect.

[whistle]

30. Not a problem, it's just the term "Economic Nationalist"

...which coming out of Pat Buchanan mouth really takes on a fascistic tone of control and militancy.

[mdmc]

48. if you go far enough to the right, you will eventually discover the left

[Warren Stupidity]

54. well yes but

that meeting ground is populated with totalitarians like Hitler and Stalin - that is where left meets right.

[No Exit]

10. Pat Buchanan is a "good party man", don't you ever doubt it!

He is a card-carrying, totally supportive, REPUBLICAN.

Witness his "run for president" in the 2000 election. Now, at that time, the repukes knew that the Reform Party could be a threat to them. Perot and that party had split the repuke vote twice, with the result being that Clinton won two elections.

They needed to neutralize that threat. Riding to the rescue was Pat Buchanan! He was that party's candidate.

But... uh-oh! "Pat! How you gonna make sure you don't INADVERTANTLY drain off votes from our leader, George W. Bush?? I mean, some of our members might not realize that they're not supposed to vote for you!"
Pat just smiled his pleasant smile... he knew there was a simple way to make sure he didn't INADVERTANTLY drain votes from HIS LORD AND MASTER BUSH. Simple: pick a BLACK FEMALE as his running mate. Everyone knows republicans, especially the unwashed republican masses, don't vote for any ticket that includes a black woman. Voila! Reform Party neutralized, way cleared for Bush.

And Pat was allowed to kiss the godfather's ring.

Pat Buchanan is nothing more than a republican shill in intellectual's clothing.

[DWolper]

23. Except that

Pat ran for president in 1996 and WON the New Hampshire primary, sending shock waves into the Republican establishment. In 1992, he ran and won 36% of the NH vote sending shock waves into the Bush White House. Buchanan has always been a political iconoclast. Frankly, I respect his independent thinking and have never bought into the "evil" talk. Besides, though we disagree on many issues, Pat's a good man.

[No Exit]

61. Oh, I never bought into the "evil" talk, either.

I could handle his unpopular views, concerning Demjanjuk, etc. But it's party shill-ism that I can't stand--I can't stand to see how, when the chips are down, he insists on standing with the republicans, a party which deserves to be destroyed (and have the ground salted under its remains.)

I sense you, um, may have some "paleocon" roots. I used to vote republican myself. It was a huge mistake. Never again!

[BornaDem]

24. Where are you getting your info or should I say misinfo?

Buchanan hasn't been a Republican for a long time. They hate him and I think he despises them for what they did to him. He is blamed for causing the loss of the election of Bush's father because of his serious primary fight. Most presidents who have a battle royale in the primaries do not get re-elected. He refused to quit when he couldn't possibly win after S.C. and went all the way to the convention campaigning against and opposing Bush, Sr.

I found myself agreeing with Buchanan along time ago on his trade policies. When he ran for president and campaigned on trade, he carried a lot of the blue collar union Reagan Dems in my area who sometimes vote Republican. (The 40% they talk about who don't listen to the union bosses.) It did not bother any of them what color or who he had for a running mate. In other words, he took potential votes away from Bush because the steel workers had been badly burned by Clinton-Gore and were never going to vote for Gore no matter what the union said.

[No Exit]

57. Okay, so why did he pull that stunt with the Reform Party?

In the 2000 election? The stunt I described in my first post, which you called "misinformation"? Are you saying he DIDN'T fight to be the Reform Party candidate (causing a schism in that party, and a court fight), and that he DIDN'T pick a rather obscure running mate who, while a brilliant person, also happened to be a black female (making her anathema to the average repukelican voter)?

Look, I've found myself agreeing with things Buchanan said, too, in the past. But he is a disappointment. I don't think he really runs to win. He is IMO just another opportunist who runs to either sell books, or for some other publicity-related rewards he gets.

Sure, sometimes he says something which, though unpopular, is sensible. But all you have to do is wait for the wind to change, and Pat always returns to the repukelican fold. Always.

[mdmc]

50. I agree, he is loyal to the GOP

[No Exit]

58. Exactly! And that loyalty supersedes all his other views! n/t

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. he did get sidelined by some health problems

and think he picked ezola foster, because she held similar views to him, not because of a secret attempt to drain off his own votes

remember, pat went out of his way to say that the 'jews for buchanan" votes from the butterfly ballot did not belong to him

i have issues with pat, but i don't give this theory on his 2000 run any credence. this guy hates the bushes as muchas we do

[No Exit]

59. I would like to think that he does...

hate the Bushes as much as we do, that is... but I believe he is certainly one of the old Reaganites AND Nixonites. I think his loyalty to his party overcomes his disagreements with the Bush crime family. I think Buchanan is happy as long as his party is on top, even though they are currently led by a criminal.

I honestly don't think he was "running" to win in 2000. I think he was assigned the job of neutralizing the Reform Party, and he went and did the job adequately, and probably was well-rewarded for it.

[AlCzervik]

12. like a broken clock Pat is right twice a day

but dont mistake his other views, he's on the way far right.

[Coventina]

13. He's a Medievalist....and not the good kind.

He's the Inquisitor, burn-the-witches, baptize-the-Jews, Crusade-against-the-infidel, support-the-monarch, keep-the-wife-barefoot-and-pregnant type.

Never, never forget that he is our ENEMY. Just because he speaks against Bush does NOT make him our friend. Not for one minute.

It makes me happy to see Bush weakened, but it doesn't change my feelings for Pat.

[Wright Patman]

14. By the time Buchanan selected

his running mate, Perot had already deliberately destroyed the Reform Party and Buchanan knew that.

Perot has a lot of Jewish associates who were understandably upset at Buchanan's somewhat revisionist book about World War II which had been published only a few months before Buchanan made his bid for the Reform Party nomination.

There is a man in Dallas named Mort Meyerson who was Perot's aide-de-camp for many years. I am pretty sure he despises Buchanan with a passion.

Compared to Germany, we still have free speech about World War II, its causes and alternative scenarios, but anyone who "goes there" has destroyed his "political viability within the system," to borrow a phrase from Clinton when he was discussing the issue of the draft with some military official in Arkansas.

Then Buchanan had to have gall bladder surgery right before the election. We always knew he had a lot of gall. I think the selection of the running mate, whose name I couldn't even begin to recall, was just a way of making sure his candidacy would be remembered in the history books, if only as a footnote.

This link describes what happend to Buchanan in 2000 in detail:

http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2001/antle/qtr4/1023.htm

[hollowdweller]

15. He's putting out a great argument why invasion and occupation don't work

On Meet The Press, right now.

[H2O Man]

16. It's important

to be able to distinguish between his books, which are serious, and his performanes on tv, which are primarily for entertainment. While I disagree with Buchanan on a number of significant issues, I recognize that he is one of the smartest people in national politics. And he is no fan of the Bush family. He will be one of the factors that helps to change the public perception of this administration.

[DistressedAmerican]

27. Frankly, As Long As Bush Is In, I'll Take ALMOST Any Allies

Conservatives that can talk to conservatives about the evils of the Bush Family and the very non-conservative nature of his policies are far more likely than DUers in convincing Republicans to abandon the neo-con revolution.

As such, I will (as I always have) judge him on each issue. He is an odd mix. Some I strongly agree with some I do not. Hopefully, in the end he will do more good than harm at least in the near term.

[mdmc]

51. exactly,

Pat Buchanan is doing a better job then most of our Democratic party "leaders".

[LdyGuique]

17. Pat Buchanan is a mix

The political scene has changed a lot over the past 30 years. These offshoot candidates, such as Perot and Buchanan, were running independently because they didn't agree with the entire platform of either party nor could they break through the juggernaut of the offical party political machines. Plus, they were appealing to voters who felt disenfranchised by the two-party system.

Buchanan has come out strongly against the war in Iraq, is anti-offshore outsourcing, and is anti-neocons. He's more of a populist than most Repugs. He's also strongly anti-abortion (he's a devout praciticing Catholic). He's an interesting man when he's not locking himself into the point-counterpoint mentality. He's as concerned as many others who are outside of any official party about the slide towards fascism (which is Corporate-worldview based).

I've felt for a long time that we need several viable political parties as I'm opposed to the entire issue that a handful of primaries early on decide who is going to be the official candidate and push all other viewpoints aside.

Buchanan isn't evil. He's a mix and has the strength of his beliefs to oppose "official" partylines. Would I vote for him? Highly unlikely. But, at least, he's not oil-driven and doesn't want to impose the US onto the rest of the world as a bullyboy, either.

[H2O Man]

18. Good post.

While I would likely never vote for him, I'm always interested in reading his serious writings. He may be more popular on DU if it were better known that as a teen, when a red-neck cop kept riding his ass, Buchanan was arrested to knocking the stuffings out of the guy. Hence, while we may not always agree with him, we can admire his strongly held sense of right & wrong.

[hollowdweller]

20. My brother, a strong union guy is a mix, voting for Buchanan once and

Jesse Jackson another time. Buchanan is a lot closer on trade and america first to the old democratic party.

[clem_c_rock]

19. Not at all. When he writes essays like this:

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

You know, I have to give him a massive amount of credit. This takes balls to say the truth like this when you're a repuke.

[moggie12]

21. I e-mailed MTP and thanked them for having him on

Giving Buchanan a national platform on MTP is a great thing: The conservatives in this country need to hear from "one of their own" how insane Bush and the neocons are. Maybe this country will start to WAKE UP if they hear this message from Buchanan (who is clearly not a "left winger"!!!!!)

Here's the link in case anybody also wants to e-mail them:
[e-mail]

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Good for you. I will follow up myself.

It was a very good discussion!

[PassingFair]

34. This thread cracks me up.

My husband and I were just watching him yesterday, he was on with one of Dean's managers.
I turned to my husband and said "isn't this WEIRD? This guys was too right wing for Bush I, and now he's CENTRIST"
This is how far looney this country has become.
I'm just thankful for DU, so that I know I'm not going looney myself. THanks for noticing these things, everyone!

[earthboundmisfit]

28. Whew - I thought it was just me & maybe I just wasn't hearing quite right

Yeah I still disagree with many of his ideas. But I have been surprised that he speaks out, maybe like NO other Repug (including John McCain), when he thinks the administration is wrong. I would really, really like to hear what he thinks of the influence of Rev. Sun Myung Moon on the governmental & religious powers that be ...

[DistressedAmerican]

35. I've heard reference to the moonie thing before.

I'm not familiar with the story. Can someone please enlighten me?

[earthboundmisfit]

37. Here's great info from a DU 'er, with good links to more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3095899&mesg_id=3095899

[DistressedAmerican]

41. Thanks for that link. Interesting!

[Stirk]

29. Oh, hell yes. I remember when Buchanan *defined* the far-right.

The fact that he's considered moderate these days is very disturbing. His ideas haven't changed, either- the political climate has.

Pat Buchanan, moderate. I can't reconcile those two ideas.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Not the first time

He was the first politician to label foreign outsourcing a problem, although that mostly comes from his basic xenophobia.

[spanone]

33. The sad truth is that this cabal is so far to the right that Buchanan

seems like a raging liberal.

[livinginphotographs]

36. I've said the same thing.

I was watching him on McLaughlin Group, and with his staunch opposition to the Iraq War, I found myself (grudgingly) agreeing with him.

Of course, after the (s)election, he seems to be back to his old, loony tricks, so I can go back to comfortably disagreeing with each and every pile of bullshit that comes out of his mouth. I hope this hasn't changed...

[Shopaholic]

40. I'm very clear that he has some very

disturbing opinions and is a raging isolationist. But he's no neo-con, that's for sure. And yes, I too remember a time when he represented the far-right wing of the party. :scared:

[Darranar]

42. I don't agree with him. And that's not surprising. n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

43. Not even on the war?

[Darranar]

55. No, not even on the war...

We both oppose it, and we both strongly disagree with the Bush Administration's position on the matter, yet we do so for different reasons.

Our views on foreign policy itself sharply differ. The US should be acting as a responsible and a moral member of the international community, not as a member of American Island where only one country exists. From those two obviously differing perspectives, the rest follows rather smoothly.

[LinuxInsurgent]

44. well..

ocassionaly I agre with him...such as his "A Republic, Not an Empire" vision..but he's still a xenophobe, pro-capitalist, pro upper class conservative...

So...I don't forget that.

[inslee08]

47. He says so many damn things

that every once in a while, you agree with him.

It's happened to me a couple of times, but it doesn't take long to remember why he's such a jerk.

[tsuki]

49. It scares the Hell out of me. Four years ago, I thought this guy was

a total fRight Wingnut. Now, he sounds middle of the road to me. And he has not changed his positions.

[Topo]

52. Even a broken clock

is right twice a day, and even a conservative can be right sometimes. He's still an obnoxious ass though. :P

[newyawker99]

63. Hi Topo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Padraig18]

60. No one ever said the man was stupid. n/t

[H2O Man]

62. Well, he is

Irish. Most Irish-Americans have a relative like him. At family reunions, weddings, etc, it's fun to sit and debate the issues of the day with "Uncle Pat."