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I like Clark for 08, am I wrong to?

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:52 PM
Original message
I like Clark for 08, am I wrong to?
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:26 PM by themartyred
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are you talking about?
I don't see anything about Clark on that link. Are you sure it's the correct link?
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Way too early......
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:01 PM by liberalnurse
to discuss. But, one can always dream.

I have no clue where this came from base upon the the link????? Are you hoping a Clark President would change this travesty?
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. What does that article have to do with Clark?
What really I wonder is how come someone who was almost invisible in the primaries has so many DU's praising him like he was the second coming? The percentage of Clarkies here is mind boggling. I've never seen such a fanatical Clark crowd in my life.

<scratches head>


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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You should have been here during the primaries!
Clark wasn't invisible in the primaries.

But you are right that he has a lot of supporters here at DU.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Shanty Oilish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Zip it up sellitman!
I mean your asbestos suit. I'm not sure it's even legal to describe Clark supporters as 'fanatical.' I myself was ferociously attacked last year for not appreciating the superb General Clark, and I was very diplomatic about it. Even a high post count won't inoculate you against some things here.
A.B.C.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Shall I ....
drink the Clark Kool-aid? Sheeeeez!!!!!

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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. We don't serve Kool-Aid.
We get you with our Cheetos!

Yeah, Clark was just an invisible candidate who outlasted two US Senators, a former US Senator and Ambassador, and a long-time congressman with big labor connections.

Invisible? When was your last eye exam? ;)
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. There are lots of reasons to like Clark as a candidate
just as some of the other "invisibles" had much to offer. Simply because a candidate did poorly in a primary does not mean that they would fair poorly in a general election.

Clark's strengths were (obviously) his military background, his strong leadership role in NATO, and (less obviously) his solid understanding of economics. As a former general, he would have brought some serious credibility to a party that has done relatively poorly among military voters. More than anyone else on the Democratic candidate slate, Clark would have had direct insight into how to effectively handle a pull-out from Iraq without further diminishing our reputation abroad. Historically speaking, generals and governors have historically won more presidencies than senators. Image-wise, his wife Gert would have been a definite asset to his campaign, and not subject to any of the usual detractions and questioning that come with second-marriage candidates. Nor was his military record subject to the same kind of attacks that have plagued Sen. Kerry throughout his career. Not being a long-time legislator also has its advantages.

Wes Clark would have been an excellent ticket-topper, and I think he could have run strong in states like Arkansas and Missouri, which Kerry ceded from the start. I don't want to be too critical of Kerry, who I think ran a good campaign with a few exceptions, but those are exceptions we would not have faced with Candidate Clark.

Now what this all has to do with the article, I don't know either.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. It interests me how fast people dismiss Clark supporters as some
kind of groupie. I find that demeaning and insulting. Clark supporters got there the old fashioned way. They studied him and decided to support him. For goodness sake! What is the deal here?!
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I Never called Clark Supporters Groupies
those are your words. I participate in many Left Wing web sites and in all the time I have been doing so I have never seen so many supporters of Clark in one place ever. Sorry but it makes me wonder.

Certainly any of the Democrats that ran against bush the lesser were superior, I just have never been enamored of someone who until a little while ago was independent and voted Republican. It makes me nervous. It also makes me wonder how deep his convictions are.

I believe Dean and Kucinich were are best candidates by far and there nothing the thundering hoards of Clark supporters here on DU can do to change that.

My 0.2
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Shanty Oilish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. What he called them was 'fanatical'
The Clark supporters here. Not groupies. Personally I think fanatics are more extreme than groupies...what do you say sellitman? :D
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ICantBelieve Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. There's a reaon Clark supporters are different...
It's because he's a better person than he is a candidate. Wes Clark teaches. Wes Clark inspires. Wes Clark lifts people up.

It's not just about his positions on the issues. It's not just about whether he's electable. It's not just about whether he's got the right stuff to get us back on the right track with our allies. All of these are HUGE points in his favor. But that's not why you see Clarkies act, as you put it, "fanatical."

Clarkies are fanatical because this guy cares about his country and not about his political career. He's doing this out of love. Nothing else. And he's taught us to feel that way too. He's taught us what liberalism really means. He's changed us for the better.

I'm a better liberal for having followed Wesley Clark. I'm a better liberal because I'm no longer prejudiced against the military or against the religious or against the patriotic. Once upon a time, I sneared at soldiers, crosses, and flags. How liberal is that? Not very.

So, what's the difference? We don't just "support" Wes Clark. We follow his lead. He's truly a leader. That doesn't make us fanatics or groupies or brainwashed BECAUSE WE STILL THINK. We still evaluate carefully everything he says. We still disagree with him. We still criticize some of his actions. But he's taught us. And he's changed us. And that makes him more than our candidate. That makes him our leader.

And, frankly, that kind of leadership is what I want in a President. That kind of leadership is what my mom always promised me the President should be.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. This article has NOTHING to do with Wes Clark
except for the fact that both served in the Army, which Wes has in commom with how many million people?

What's to prove or disprove? War is hell, & nobody knows that better than a career military person like Wes, who would have done anything to prevent this war. The civilians wanted this war, not the military.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. I agree....
It may as well be a Lamaze class article.....?????

Oh, a shit starting thread????

Okay, bye.....


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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing wrong with Clark.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. We've been had....
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:40 PM by liberalnurse
It's a flame based starter thread. Just like the kindling we use to start our fireplace with....

Or it can just be a form of foreplay for Clark fantasies.:shrug:

Let's just go play elsewhere.....please folks....
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Dread Pirate KR Read Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. 
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Dread Pirate KR Read Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. hmmmm,,, repost, me'thinks,...
<----- En'Whatever gave you that idea laddy? ;)
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I Like Clark, Too...
but only if we want to win in'08. I can't believe how we democrats have managed to nominate candidates, for the last two elections, with negative personalities. How goofy do you have to be to make Bush look good? I don't know, but Gore and Kerry managed to do it!
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. No you are not wrong, silly...
He will make a great VP for Boxer!
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need him now
He should AT LEAST have been our VP in 2004. He's about the only one who can stop the insanity in this country IMO.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't like the idea of Clark in 08 for Pres and I doubt he will even run
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 04:35 PM by ultraist
He is very focused on working in the private sector now. He has consultant contracts with Nextel and CNN as a spokesperson about the Iraq war. He also has private contracts with the Homeland Security Dept through some private security company, Axicom, I believe it is.

I realize he is taking a position on that committee with Newt Gringich which is public, but most of his endeavors are private sector. That doesn't sound like someone who is planning on running in 08.

Some Democrats were leary of him because: he voted for Reagan, worked on a WhiteHouse committee in the seventies as a registered Independent, voted for Nixon, and was military for so long.

He seems to be a populist that leans liberal, so I would certainly consider him as a VP option.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I liked him a lot, but my wife couldn't handle
watching him. She'd yell at him, "blink dammit blink!"
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I like Gore, but hell, whomever the Dems decide on will be fine
even Hillary Clinton and Zell Miller could get my vote.

I'll follow the DNC and whomever they support. If it is Clark, then so be it.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. How about a Yellow Dog?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. sure
I'm not sure what the Yellow Dog Dems are, but sure. If Dean and the DNC give a yellow dog the go ahead, then :kick: .
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. If the Democrats ran
a yellow dog for office we'd rather vote for the yellow dog than for a Republican.

I am a yellow dog Democrat.

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. so what does it all mean?
I'm still not sure what a yellow dog dem is...
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I will type slowly. :)
A yellow dog Democrat is a person who will vote for a Democrat no matter what. If the Democrats ran a yellow dog for office, I would vote for the yellow dog. It is another word for a very loyal Democrat.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. thanks...
perhaps I am now a DNC yellow dog...
I still think Kucinich is god, however. :~)

(I wasn't sure if yellow dogs were loyal, or if they were only dems in some weird zell miller way).
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Dennis a a good guy.
I met him back during the dying days of the primaries. He impressed me. He also impressed a Republican friend of mine.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. cool!
Thanks for the info....
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ICantBelieve Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. He blinks now...
So he had an annoying mannerism that he's now corrected. By the way, has your wife seen Wes in a Speedo?
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. Clark is running in 08, and is a leading contender.
Clark has been quietly lining up support of various groups within the Democratic Party. He has the support of the veterans, and the Democratic Christians. (Contrary to popular myth, many Christians are Democratic, and to be a liberal does not require one to be an atheist.) Southern groups are strongly behind him. Also, Hilary backers are beginning to realize that she has peaked and are starting to swing their support toward Clark.

The race for 08 has already started.
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jerryster Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. Didn't check out the link, but
I have my own reason for not supporting Clark. I realize it's my own issue but I can't help it. I feel very strongly that no one should be elected to the Presidency as their FIRST elected office. I felt this away about Clark, Perot, Forbes, Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, SR. The President should have had to deal with the realities of lesser offices and campaigns. I believe that with Clark - whom I admire tremendously for the person he is - the lack of those experiences hurt his efforts when he was running. He often looked like a deer caught in the headlights. I also wondered if he believed that his military record alone was going to bail him out of every tough situation. Doesn't work that way.

I stress here that I am an admirer of Mr. Clark. Again, I just can't bring myself to vote for anyone who seeks the Presidency as their first elected office. It's almost an act of disrespect on their part.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Disrespect?
Gimme a break.

I respect your different view, but the reasoning isn't sound to me.

Haven't you considered that the process and compromises that people have to deal with by holding lesser office creates the weak leadership we've seen for so long?

Obviously, the campaign process takes some level of specialized skill, but I think there's a reason lesser office isn't a requirement to seek the presidency. There may come a time in our political life when a politician is the last thing we need in a president.

As for your observations about Clark's 2004 run, I think you're right. In the end, that's why he wasn't the nominee.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-15-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
36. Clark's biggest "problem".
He is trying to win the nomination of the Democratic Party. Winning the nomination requires strong support from the hard-core of the party, and our hard-core has a LOT of military-haters in it. Kerry was able to win the nomination only because he had repented of his military service and atoned for it by starting the VVAW. And Kerry was only a junior officer. Clark is not ashamed of having served and risen to the rank of General. For many on the left that is an automatic disqualifier.

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