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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:01 PM
Original message
Microwave gun to be used by US troops on Iraq rioters
Microwave gun to be used by US troops on Iraq rioters
By Tony Freinberg and Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 19/09/2004)

Microwave weapons that cause pain without lasting injury are to be issued to American troops in Iraq for the first time as concern mounts over the growing number of civilians killed in fighting.



The non-lethal weapons, which use high-powered electromagnetic beams, will be fitted to vehicles already in Iraq, which will allow the system to be introduced as early as next year.

Using technology similar to that found in a conventional microwave oven, the beam rapidly heats water molecules in the skin to cause intolerable pain and a burning sensation. The invisible beam penetrates the skin to a depth of less than a millimetre. As soon as the target moves out of the beam's path, the pain disappears.

Because there are no after-effects, the United States Department of Defence believes that the weapons will be particularly useful in urban conflict. The beam could be used to scatter large crowds in which insurgents operate at close quarters to both troops and civilians.

snip http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/19/wirq319.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/19/ixworld.html
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. that's what the police have said about tasers
yet they have still managed to kill people with them. How do the technologies differ?
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Stun guns shock you with electricity.
Microwave guns give you the sensation that your being cooked alive..
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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. No after-effects? That kind of heat, on the largest organ, skin..Horrible
Sounds like it would cause severe cell damage, cancer, immune suppressive response, IMHO
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. dumb question
but wouldn't a mirror reflect the beam back to sender?
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. A metal reflector could be devised. Aluminum would work well.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. What about buildings? Wouldn't buildings reflect it back at the troops?
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Not really
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 07:41 PM by Jonathan_Hoag
You would get some diffuse reflection, some absorption but no focused reflection that would in any way affect the troops or anyone else for that matter.
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. If you hold the "mirror" perpendicular to the beam, yes
Note that it has to be a mirror for the microwaves, not the light. Therefore it doe snot have to be nearly as smooth, as microwaves are huge compared to light waves. A nice piece of sheet metal would work just fine.

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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
62. Nerve, Eye, Brain Damage, burns, cancers...Outrageous
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. OMG! They are effectively "Cooking" these people from the inside out!!!
What's worse? This or the Depleted Uranium artillery? :shrug:

No lasting injury my ass....another Bush lie.... :grr:
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. No, they would not be
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 06:26 PM by Jonathan_Hoag
The microwaves used would be shorter than the 2.5 GHz variety found in microwave ovens. Therefore the waves would penetrate only to the depth of less than a milimeter.
Also there would be no burns to the skin as the energy density would be too small for that. The weapon works not by cooking teh skin but by exploiting the way human heat sensation works - not by measuring temperature but by measuring heat transfer. By heating up surface of the skin only the system would produce sensation of a much greater heat than the skin is really exposed to.


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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Phew! That info you just gave just makes me feel so much better!
:eyes: (sarcasm now off)
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Take it or leave it
But these are the facts.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. these people?
I have news for you. this weapon is going to be all the rage at protests in our own country.
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. That's about right
try put a cat in the microwave oven.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. And fuck the babies, kids, old people who can't get out of the way in time
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 06:13 PM by LynnTheDem
They'll just be microwaved to death.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Notice the terminology of calling them "Sheriffs" and "Gunslingers".
The armoured vehicles will be named Sheriffs once they have been modified to carry the microwave weapons, known as the Active Denial System (ADS). Col Hall said that US army and US marine corps units should receive four to six ADS equipped Sheriffs by September 2005.

The project was initiated only three months ago but US military chiefs intend to rush the Sheriffs into the front line, believing that they can be of immediate assistance.

In another development, the Sheriffs will be fitted with Gunslinger, a rapid-fire gun currently under development that will detect enemy snipers and automatically fire back at them.

If the Sheriffs prove successful, their use will be expanded in combat zones. They will also be deployed for security at ports and air force bases, and could take part in border patrols.

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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. How do you know that
with such certainty?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Better Question: How do YOU KNOW with such certainty all the effects of
these Microwave weaponry? :eyes: :shrug: ???????
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Physics
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'll post some links to reports mentioning health hazards of microwaves.
I'll post some links to reports mentioning health hazards of microwaves. Update October 7th 2004:

FCC Policy on Human Exposure to Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields

The FCC is required by the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 to evaluate the effect of emissions from FCC-regulated transmitters on the quality of the human environment. At the present time there is no federally-mandated radio frequency (RF) exposure standard. However, several non-government organizations, such as the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. (IEEE), and the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP) have issued recommendations for human exposure to RF electromagnetic fields. The potential hazards associated with RF electromagnetic fields are discussed in OET Bulletin No. 56, Questions and Answers About the Biological Effects and Potential Hazards of Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields.

The biological effects on dead chickens mat be observed in your own microwave at home. And yes, in order to incapacitate a human a microwave is overdose them on ionizing radiation. If you haven't done the math yet, the weapon is roughly 4-thousand times more powerful than your home microwave, 1-2 million times more power than a cell phone's output and presumably pulsed at a frequency designed to involuntarily fire nerve synapses. Short bursts or not, ionizing is ionizing, but absent animal testing protests (and they're not testing on Barbie dolls), who cares?

Source: Urban Survival

http://www.niburu.nl/index.php?showarticle.php?articleID=4757&lang=ENG
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. You do realize that there are EM waves of different wavelengths?
The kind of microwave that you cook your dead chickens with is completely different from the kind of microwaves that will be used for this.

Also, 4000 times stronger? Certainly not for the crowd control system described in the OP. Your link was about an airborne weapon, compeltely different thing.

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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. FCC Policy on Human Exposure to Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields
This is what I was referring to in that link, though the airborne weapon described in there is interesting. I'm aware that there is a broad electromagnetic spectrum, and that it can be radiated in a continuous wave, or it can be pulsed, or modulated, and that this will effect what it can do. I'm posting links to all mentions of RF hazards, not just to the effects of this weapon. Some here may be overstating, you may be understating the possible hazards, and damage potential of this technology. It will of course depend on how much power is used, the frequency used, and how it is pulsed, and modulated. In my opinion there is much damage that this could do.
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. In general, yes
But I was specifically referring to the crowd control microwave weapons described in the OP.
The frequency that is used there is around 100 GHz or above and does not properly fall under RF.

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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. By the way, welcome to DU, Robert Heinlein fan!
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. Thanks.
May you never go thirsty
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Thermal models for microwave hazards and their role in standards developme
1: Bioelectromagnetics. 1999;Suppl 4:52-63. Related Articles, Links


Thermal models for microwave hazards and their role in standards development.

Foster KR, Erdreich LS.

Department of Bioengineering, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 19104-6392, USA. kfoster@seas.upenn.edu

We consider the thermal response of the body to radiofrequency (RF) energy, with emphasis on partial-body exposure, to assess potential thermal hazards. The thermal analysis is based on Pennes' bioheat equation. In this model, the thermal response is governed by two time constants. One (tau1) pertains to heat convection by blood flow and is (for physiologically normal perfusion rates) on the order of 3 min. The second (tau2) characterizes heat conduction, and varies as the square of a distance that characterizes the spatial extent of the heating. We examine three idealized cases. The first is a region of tissue with an insulated surface, subject to irradiation with an exponentially decreasing SAR, which models a large surface area of tissue exposed to microwaves. The second is a region of tissue in contact with a hemispherical electrode that passes current into it, which models exposure from contact with a conductor. The third is a region of tissue with an insulated surface, subject to heating from a dipole located close to it. In all three cases, we estimate the maximum steady-state temperature increase as a function of the relevant electrical and thermal parameters and the thresholds for thermal hazard. We conclude that thermal models are a potentially fruitful but underutilized means of analyzing thermal hazards from RF fields. A quantitative analysis of such hazards enables the development of data-based uncertainty factors, which can replace arbitrary "safety factors" in developing exposure limits. Finally, we comment on the need to marry quantitative modeling of data and risk assessment, and to incorporate contemporary approaches to risk assessment into RF standards development.

PMID: 10334715
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10334715&dopt=Abstract
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Ah, then you know that it'd cause serious burns.
That could very well result in death. Particularly the elderly and very young.
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. If you wanted to build a lethal weapon, sure, you could do it easily
But not with the setup described in the OP.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:04 PM
Original message
Microwave Ovens and their Hazards
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Physical Agents
Microwave Ovens and their Hazards


Why do people worry about microwave radiation?

Microwave ovens are used daily in restaurants, cafeterias, lounges, kitchens, snack bars, and homes. Microwave oven users are often concerned about potential health hazards from the exposure to microwave radiation leakage. With the latest technological advances in door seal design and with proper maintenance, microwave oven leakage has been greatly minimized or eliminated.



How do microwave ovens work?

In a microwave oven, food is cooked by exposing it to microwave radiation. Most household microwave ovens operate on a frequency of 2450 megahertz (MHz or million cycles per second) in a continuous wave (cw) mode. Larger ovens used for industrial applications sometimes operate at 915 MHz.

snip What are the health effects of microwave radiation?

A large amount of literature has been published on the biological effects of microwave radiation. Generally speaking, exposure to very high levels of microwave radiation can result in significant amounts of energy being absorbed by the body. Just as with food, this energy is transformed into heat in the body. Sensitive body parts, such as the eyes, testes and brain, are not able to get rid of the extra heat that may build up. However, the situations where effects of thermal (heat) damage has actually occurred to the eye or brain required long term exposure to very high power densities well in excess of those measured around microwave ovens.

Some biological effects cannot be explained by a temperature rise in the body or in any one part. Persons working in microwave fields have reported headaches, eyestrain, over-all fatigue and disturbance of sleep. These effects have been associated with the interaction of the microwave fields with the central nervous system of the body. Such effects have been labeled as "non-thermal" interactions. These may be responsible for some of the long-term effects from prolonged exposure to low levels of electromagnetic fields. There is no confirmed scientific evidence to prove a link between such effects and microwave radiatus exposure. However, it must be emphasized that these effects usually occur with pulsed or pulse-modulated fields and not with the continuous wave fields associated with microwave ovens.

snip http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/microwave_ovens.html
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. Of course this weapon would be using Pulsed Microwave Technology.
Which is not the same as the continuous wave fields associated with microwave ovens. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pulsed+microwave+technology&btnG=Google+Search
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. These effects require EM energy to penetrate into the body
With the technology described the EM waves are so short that they do not penetrate into the body but are absorbed by the outer skin layer.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. This is from OSHA. Radiofrequency and Microwave Radiation
Safety and Health Topics
Radiofrequency and Microwave Radiation


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Focus

Health Effects



Radiofrequency (RF) and microwave (MW) radiation are electromagnetic radiation in the frequency ranges 3 kilohertz (kHz) - 300 Megahertz (MHz), and 300 MHz - 300 gigahertz (GHz), respectively. Research continues on possible biological effects of exposure to RF/MW radiation from radios, cellular phones, the processing and cooking of foods, heat sealers, vinyl welders, high frequency welders, induction heaters, flow solder machines, communications transmitters, radar transmitters, ion implant equipment, microwave drying equipment, sputtering equipment and glue curing.

These pages are maintained as a product of the Alliance between OSHA and the American Industrial Hygiene Association (AIHA), specifically the AIHA Non-Ionizing Radiation Committee.

The following questions link to safety and health information relevant to RF and microwave radiation.
What standards apply?
OSHA | FCC | Australian | ANSI | ACGIH | ICNIRP | NRPB
What are the health effects of radiofrequency and microwave exposure?
General Health Effects Reviews | Health Effects by Exposure Source
Where do radiofrequency and microwave hazards occur and what are possible solutions?
General| Interference with Medical Devices | Amateur Radio | More
How do you evaluate radiofrequency and microwave exposures?
Where can I find example radiofrequency and microwave safety programs?
Where can I find additional information?
Websites | Training


http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/radiofrequencyradiation/
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Cellular/Mobile Telephones And Their Potential Hazards
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. In tests, the pain was SO intense, it could only be withstood for a few
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 08:57 PM by LynnTheDem
seconds; what happens to the very young & elderly who may not be able to get out of the way? What happens when those manning the weapons are stupid/ignorant or purposefully ignore the proper time & temp settings?

Links:

Although high-powered microwave weapons are designed to destroy the electronic equipment used by enemy command centers, their effect on humans in the vicinity is less clear. The U.S. military says HPM weapons are non-lethal, but that doesn't mean free from harm. The U.S Marines Corp. is currently developing a microwave-based weapon that inflicts a brief, intense burning sensation on the target's skin similar to touching a hot light bulb. Mounted on Humvee, the weapon is designed for crowd dispersal. The temperature settings are variable, however, and can be set as high as 130 degrees F. Given that temperature variability, it's possible that someone in the path of a HPM burst might be cooked like a meal readied by a microwave oven.

Source: Scientific American, February 18, 2003

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CBC91-B6FD-1E51-A98A809EC5880105

MICROWAVING IRAQ
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Microwaving_Iraq.htm

Killing Me Softly; Non-Lethal Weapons

...And that's if the new weapon is used properly. According to the Marine Times, the VMADS -- called the "people zapper" -- may be capable of inflicting far more than brief discomfort when not used as directed; that is, for no more than three seconds. "The amount of time the weapon must be trained on an individual to cause permanent damage or death is classified." (In other words, it only takes one 18-year-old recruit with a sick curiosity or a slow watch to turn the thing deadly.)

In 1995, in fact, a military spokesman qualified the concept of "non-lethal" weapons: "t's really less lethal ... because these weapons if improperly used could be lethal."

Marine Col George Fenton, likewise, is on record in the May 2000 National Defense Magazine saying the term "non-lethal ... does not mean that they can't kill or injure." Reassuring, isn't it?

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2001/03/newshole1.html

Want more links?





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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thanks for the excellent links Lynn. Do Microwave Weapons Kill?
Do Microwave Weapons Kill?


Although high-powered microwave weapons are designed to destroy the electronic equipment used by enemy command centers, their effect on humans in the vicinity is less clear. The U.S. military says HPM weapons are non-lethal, but that doesn't mean free from harm. The U.S Marines Corp. is currently developing a microwave-based weapon that inflicts a brief, intense burning sensation on the target's skin similar to touching a hot light bulb. Mounted on Humvee, the weapon is designed for crowd dispersal. The temperature settings are variable, however, and can be set as high as 130 degrees F. Given that temperature variability, it's p ossible that someone in the path of a HPM burst might be cooked like a meal readied by a microwave oven. Meanwhile, scientists at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee have proposed building an electromagnetic pulse weapon that would disrupt a person's short term memory and cause him to lose control of involuntary body functions. So whereas a HPM weapon's lethality is uncertain, it's definitely going to hurt, leaving the victim incapacitated for a short period of time. --Frank Vizard

Back to Extinguishing the Threat
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CBC91-B6FD-1E51-A98A809EC5880105
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Nazis tested their new weapons in Spain during the Spanish
Civil War. The Bush Crime Family is using Iraq for its tests.
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I sent this awhile ago to DU
but somehow I was put down.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Use of microwave weapons is under reported, because it sounds so far out.
People think you're talking tin foil hat stuff, but most of the info that I've been posting has been from press releases, reports in the press, and from official studies. Here is a link to another thread I started on some of the things being done with microwaves. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3079832
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. New military toy... Who to try it out on? Hmmm........
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. This will be used
on American citizens in the future.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sounds like a test run for use on Americans
If it works out for them there, expect them to start frying American protesters alive here.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Hey, three units were deployed but not used....
in NYC for the republican convention....I kid you not!
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Conservativesux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. I would consider such use as an attack on my life and act accordingly.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
65. And THIS IS HOW WE WARN PEOPLE:
"The police will soon be boiling the water in the largest organ of our bodies if we refuse to disperse."

Make it sound as farking scary as it is.

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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. What keeps the army from "tweaking" the energy of the microwaves?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Or to torture prisoners.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. They do have engineers
who could possibly boost to microwave so that it has a shorter wavelength...
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Any technology can, and will
be misused.
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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #37
60. Sadly, yes. GWEN Towers, HAARP & Satellite GPS_EMF Control Grid
An evil Elf


GWEN Towers, HAARP & Satellite GPS_EMF Control Grid



The Purpose Behind The Neighborhood ELF Microwave Towers

Sent To Don Croft By an unidentified friendly source
May 23, 2002

Think grid triangulation. Like the old grid paper, put a dot at each corner. expand the box outward. Each level of panel acts also dimensionally (not like 4th, but in 3d space dimensions, don), or to put it another way, pitch, yaw, up, down, right, left, x, y, intensity, duration,  frequency pulse, etc, those kind of dimensions.

The whole damn dumb show was supposed to go down in late 99, but they didn't get people's guns, that big final obstacle to fascism. That's  when they hit upon these ELF towers. Tested them in Ventura, Africa, and the Sudan. They had GWEN operational in '92, but it did entire counties and would affect their own people, who have body suits they were (lined with lead-impregnated kevlar- which blocks elf and piggyback freqs.).

So they found out that the little towers, by the tens of thousands,  they could literally aim any energy like a gun to a single home, a given  range area, and so forth. Big places run by FEMA/NORAD run it all from computers. But they can also go remote, with the proper clearance and hookup.  They found out they didn't need to get the guns (that's why the push and schoolyard shootings stopped here; they no longer needed that scare op that worked so well in England, Australia, Germany, ....)

Now...how can you fire a gun or load it, if you are crawling on the ground begging for mercy? If you can imagine the worst abdominable pain there is, then you know how debiliating it is - you simply can't do anything, but lie on the ground and pray for relief  .

Then they can clean up entire streets, districts, small towns, enclaves, as needed. They don't need to pulse the whole country at once. Only as they do sweeps would they need to fire the machine up. And it is great for little revolts as they are sure to spring up. You can aim this grid like a net, down to the meter's distance. Got a neighborhood or backwoods community that isn't cow towing the NWO line? Simple, fire up the machine and down they go...as you walk through, kill the ringleaders, disarm the rest, then the lesson is taught to the survivors. (snip)

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/gwen-haarp-satellite-gps-emf-control-grid.htm
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. I don't know, that seems a bit far fetched
Such a system would have been widely known. The circle of eyes and ears would have to be so big to put it in operation, that keeping it from the front page would be impossible.
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kamqute Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. They've been using stuff like this for a long time in Iraq
And of course there are after-effects--on the nervous system, etc.--you can't just mess around with super high and low frequencies and expect not to--heck, cordless phones and shortwave radios have documented effects.

http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Microwaving_Iraq.htm
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jjtss Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. God forgive me but...........
Maybe I should buy stock in Reynolds or ALCOA Aluminum.
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NCN007 Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
34. Microwave guns are non-leathal weapons
but they are still weapons. They are designed to give the soldiers options other than opening fire on a group of demostraters who may or may not be armed and dangerous. Does this new technology cause lasting damage? Hard to say. But it sure as hell doesnt cause the kind of damage a bullet would, so I'd call it a good alternative option. As far as their use at home goes, I wish the national guard at Kent State had had this technology.
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Grey Ranks Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Common Sense
Thank you for having a rational viewpoint on this.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. Of course, not being bullets, it might be used more freely.
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 08:50 PM by norml
And there have been many who have died, or who have been permanently damaged by weapons that have been called non lethal. The effects of such irradiation would not be nearly as strait forward as the effects of rubber bullets, or even of Tasers.
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Grey Ranks Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. True
but these people should be trained to use this weapon. Humans aren't in the habit of handing out weapons to the inept.

There is a difference between propaganda and marketing. This weapon was invented for the purpose of crowd control. Versus the weapon being a new toy and them making up some story about how it is non-lethal.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. Killing Me Softly
According to the Marine Times, the VMADS -- called the "people zapper" -- may be capable of inflicting far more than brief discomfort when not used as directed; that is, for no more than three seconds. "The amount of time the weapon must be trained on an individual to cause permanent damage or death is classified." (In other words, it only takes one 18-year-old recruit with a sick curiosity or a slow watch to turn the thing deadly.)

In 1995, in fact, a military spokesman qualified the concept of "non-lethal" weapons: "t's really less lethal ... because these weapons if improperly used could be lethal." Marine Col George Fenton, likewise, is on record in the May 2000 National Defense Magazine saying the term "non-lethal ... does not mean that they can't kill or injure."

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2001/03/newshole1.html

I'd prefer to die by bullet.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. So you won't be dead--
you'll just wish you were. Great.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. New non-lethal weapon lets troops microwave hostile crowds


New non-lethal weapon lets troops microwave hostile crowds
GEOSTRATEGY-DIRECT.COM

Special to World Tribune.com

Thursday, February 3, 2005 - The United States has developed a non-lethal microwave weapon for use in Iraq.

The Active Denial System uses millimeter-wave electromagnetic energy that can be directed at targets at a range of 1 kilometer.
Officials said the vehicle, termed Sheriff, would contain the Active Denial System. The system uses millimeter-wave electromagnetic energy that can be directed at targets at a range of 1 kilometer, Middle East Newsline reported.

The ADS system would be downgraded for Iraqi deployment in urban areas, officials said. The modified weapon causes a burning sensation on the skin, causing the people to run away.

The Pentagon eventually plans to install the non-lethal, high-powered microwave weapon on a military vehicle. The deployment of the first platforms in Iraq would take place in September 2005.




snip http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m9462&l=i&size=1&hd=0
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. My tinfoil hat is coming out of obsolescence!
Hooray!
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. If you liked that, you'll love this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3079832 Microwaving Iraq
'Pacifying' Rays Pose New Hazards In Iraq
William Thomas

Janaury 25, 2005 - On the rooftop of a shrapnel-pocked building in the ruins of Fallujah, a team of GI's stealthily sets up a gray plastic dome about two-feet in diameter. Keeping well back from the sight lines of the street and nearby buildings, they plug the cable connectors on the side of the "popper" into a power unit. The grunts have no clue what the device does. They are just following orders.

"Most of the worker-bees that are placing these do not even know what is inside the "domes" just that they were told where to place them by Intel weenies with usually no nametag," reports my source, a very well informed combat veteran I will call "Hank".

The grunts call the plastic devices "poppers" or "domes". Once activated, each hidden transmitter emits a widening circle of invisible energy capable of passing through metal, concrete and human skulls up to half a mile away. "They are saturating the area with ULF, VLF and UHF freqs," Hanks says, with equipment derived from US Navy undersea sonar and communications.

But its not being used to locate and talk to submarines under Baghdad.

After powering up the unit, the grunts quickly exit the area. It is their commanders, fervent hope that any male survivors enraged by brutal American bombardments that damaged virtually every building in this once thriving "City of Mosques", displacing a quarter-million residents while murdering thousands of children, women and elders in their homes -- will lose all incentive for further resistance and revenge.



snip http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m9177&l=i&size=1&hd=0
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Democracy 1, Iraqis 0. WTF has happened to Amurka.... eom.
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
59. A mess of an article
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 10:26 PM by Jonathan_Hoag
Confusing acoustic and EM waves and ignoring the fact that VLF EM waves in air require antennas 100s of miles long. Small domes just can't cut it.
Typical pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Oh really? Well if you liked that, you'll love this.
Home
Indexed under "S" for "Silent Sound" on these sites:

http://www.nas.net/~raven1 (main)
http://www.bestnet.org/~raven1 (mirror)

This article shows clearly the military's intent to use every possible thought-influencing technology. This technology is largely classified but there are leaks, like this article. We involuntary test subjects can tell you from first hand experience that far more invasive devices now exist.

This article represents one of the two parallel "tracks" on which thought-influencing technology is being used and further developed:

- Radio frequency signals, based on the WW II phenomenon called "radar hearing"

- Ultrasound signals, which can be transmitted through the air or piggybacked on to radio/TV signals

For the radio frequency or "microwave" references, click to the Site Index.

FOR DETAILED DISCUSSION OF THE TECHNOLOGY ITSELF SCROLL DOWN TO THE HEADING "MIND CONTROL WITH SILENT SOUNDS"

Nexus
Volume 5, Issue 6
October/November 1998
--------------------------
EXCERPT: More in magazine.
--------------------------

Military Use of Mind Control Weapons

by Judy Wall 1998

PSY-OPS WEAPONRY USED IN THE PERSIAN GULF WAR
MIND CONTROL WITH SILENT SOUNDS
CLONING THE EMOTIONS
SYSTEM DELIVERY AND APPLICATIONS
OFFICIAL DENIALS
KGB PSYCHOTRONICS
POWER OF THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
INTERNATIONAL CONCERNS OVER NEW WEAPONS
TOWARDS GLOBAL MIND CONTROL

PSY-OPS WEAPONRY USED IN THE PERSIAN GULF WAR

See also another article on this site.

For years, rumours have persisted that the United States Department of Defense has been engaged in research and development of ultra-sophisticated mind- altering technology. Confirmation of this came to me recently in the form of two ITV News Bureau Ltd (London) wire service bulletins.<1>

The March 23, 1991 newsbrief, "High-Tech Psychological Warfare Arrives in the Middle East", describes a US Psychological Operations (PsyOps) tactic directed against Iraqi troops in Kuwait during Operation Desert Storm. The manoeuvre consisted of a system in which subliminal mind-altering technology was carried on standard radiofrequency broadcasts. The March 26, 1991 newsbrief states that among the standard military planning groups in the centre of US war planning operations at Riyadh was "an unbelievable and highly classified PsyOps program utilising 'silent sound' techniques".


snip http://www.whale.to/b/wall.html
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Jonathan_Hoag Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. There you go again ...
Ultrasound "piggybacked" (I assume he meant modulated) on radio/TV signals. You can't do that - one is accoustic waves, other is electromagnetic waves.

And even if you could, how would that affect humans other than distupt their TV or radio reception?

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
63. Certainly it's harmless... Just Like Depleted Uranium... Right?
Edited on Mon Feb-14-05 02:39 AM by impeachdubya
On the plus side, maybe enerprising soul will make some money selling the Iraqis Safety Vests for this thing from Orville Redenbacher. Come away burned, but with a tasty treat!

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
64. Don't overreact. They'll only use this crap on the Iraqis until
they find an excuse to use it on US.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
66. Sounds nasty...but it proably better than

Its proably better than being shot by an M16 machine gun though.

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