IF LEGIT - HUGE STORY.....

[whosinpower]

US fights back against 'rule by clerics'

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB15Ak02.html

snip - To head off this threat of a Shi'ite clergy-driven religious movement, the US has, according to Asia Times Online investigations, resolved to arm small militias backed by US troops and entrenched in the population to "nip the evil in the bud".

Asia Times Online has learned that in a highly clandestine operation, the US has procured Pakistan-manufactured weapons, including rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, ammunition, rockets and other light weaponry. Consignments have been loaded in bulk onto US military cargo aircraft at Chaklala airbase in the past few weeks. The aircraft arrived from and departed for Iraq.

The US-armed and supported militias in the south will comprise former members of the Ba'ath Party, which has already split into three factions, only one of which is pro-Saddam Hussein. They would be expected to receive assistance from pro-US interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's Iraqi National Accord.



So, in essense, the US is funding and arming the resistance. The resistance to US occupation and Shiite control. Let me repeat that - TH US IS ARMING AND FUNDING THE RESISTANCE...OR MORE COMMONLY KNOWN VIA THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AS TERRORISTS.

Is Asia times online legitimate???????

[bloom]

1. It couldn't be any worse than FOX

and most of the MSM.

[AuntiBush]

55. Agreed!

[d_b]

83. Yea, no shit.

[Minstrel Boy]

2. Asia Times is plenty credible.

It's a legitimate source. Best English language analysis of Central Asia, I think.

[blondeatlast]

57. Very reliable. Straight reporting, no spin. nt

[anaxarchos]

93. Great flag..... n/t

[Noaell]

142. "Without Reservation" column source

Karen Kwiatkowski first posted to SFTT & now has her own column.
MilitaryWeek.com: Karen Kwiatkowski: Without Reservation
A biweekly column by Karen Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. USAF (ret.)
posted 16 Nov 04 The Iraq Solution – Coming Sooner Than You Think
http://www.militaryweek.com/kk111604.shtml

[leftchick]

3. Atimes is very legit

it is one of my favorite online publications.

another snip and boy does this make sense...

A military analyst familiar with strategic and proxy operations commented that there is a specific reason behind procuring arms from Pakistan, rather than acquiring US-made ones.

"A similar strategy was adopted in Afghanistan during the initial few years of the anti-USSR resistance movement where guerrillas were supplied with Chinese-made AK-47 rifles , Egyptian and German-made G-3 rifles. Similarly, other arms, like anti-aircraft guns, short-range missiles and mortars, were also procured by the US from different countries and supplied to Pakistan, which handed them over to the guerrillas," the analyst maintained.

The obvious reason for this tactic is to give the impression that the resistance acquired its arms and ammunition from different channels and from different countries - and anywhere other than the United States.

Asia Times Online contacts said it is clear that Pakistan would not be the only country from which the US would have procured arms. And such arms could not be destined for the Iraqi security forces because US arms would be given to them.

[Oilwellian]

10. Interesting...

Isn't Feith being investigated for having clandestine meetings with an Iranian arms dealer who was also involved in Iran/Contra?

[G_j]

73. yep, A-times has high standards

I believe this story, if they say they investigated this they DID.

[chicagiana]

75. I'll wait for Seymour Hersch ...

If Seymour Hersch sais it's so ... I'll believe it.

If it IS true AND you can pin it on the President, this is definitely an impeachable offense. Or at the very least, something that will FINALLY force Rumsfeld out of the Pentagon short of Jesus coming back and declaring that he's incompetent as Secretary of Defense.

[bloom]

108. a note from Juan Cole...

"Likewise, it is worth pointing out that the new Shiite government in Baghdad will support the Lebanese Shiites, including Hezbollah.

One of the Neoconservatives' goals had been the installation of a pro-Israel government in Baghdad. But at Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution rallies and Friday prayers services, crowds have been known to chant "Death to Israel!"

http://www.juancole.com/


--------------------------
--------------------------

If one of the goals of the war is to strengthen/protect Israel (and I think it is) then helping the "insurgents" or "terrorists" if they are against the Shiites might help accomplish that goal.

[brainshrub]

140. If Bush wasn't impeached for the torture

there is no way he'll get impeached for this.

In flagrant violation of the Constitution, the Bush Administration ignores the Geneva conventions that the Senate ratified.

The Abu Grabe pictures and Gonzalez's memo should have brought the entire BFEE down. Unfortunately, since there is currently no real opposition party to hold them accountable, they can get away with anything they want at this point.

[chicagiana]

153. Intentionally arming the enemy????

Oh no, I'm sorry but there is no way to spin the deliberate arming of the Iraqi insurgents after the Bush admin has spent so much time calling them "terrorists". They can't just get up one day and start calling them "freedom fighters." The US public isn't THAT stupid.

[havocmom]

76. Keep it kicked for the night shift

:kick:

[libodem]

92. I believe it's true

One of my current favorite books is House of Bush House of Saud. It has a chapter about the US arming both Iran and Iraq under Bush 41. It's well referenced. I'm not surprised? They have armed our enemies before. It's all about the military-industrial-complex-arms-cartel and the f-ing oil.

[Az]

4. When bears hibernate

they have to stuff mud and grass and other debry up their tail to create a butt plug so as not to soil their beds (true story). Its ugly, and messy, but necissary.

George and company went in and yanked out Saddam. They did so because they thought he was ugly and unnicissary. Now they are finding that without Saddam in place the entire nation seems bent and sliding into the control of Iran. Suddenly they are trying to cram something, anything back into the breech to stop the coming explosion.

We have become the butt plug.

[seemunkee]

ewwwwww

[Az]

8. Yes, Ewwwww indeed

[Tyler Durden]

7. WHAT A FUCKING GREAT ANALOGY!!!!

I forgive you for everything you said on my RELIGION JIHAD protest.

All kidding aside, NAILED 100%.

Hey, anyone else remembe IRAN/CONTRA?

[tridim]

13. I'm still pondering the loaded hibernating bears..

I never knew they did that. :) Yep, it's a great analogy.. Emphasis on the anal.

BushCo is the "Buttplug of the World". Great!

[Az]

23. Just read up on them a bit

They don't actually stuff things up there. But a butt plug does form and its made of some rather unpleasant materials. Read here http://www.yellowstone-reservations.com/hibernation_denning.htm

[othermeans]

147. Great aside! Very interesting nt

[DirtyDawg]

88. Even More Ironic...

...is that first they give the world an enema...THEN they have to be the butt-plug...and the stupid-ass repig assholes will still never admit how much shit they've allowed to be spread around.

[rfranklin]

133. If Jeff Gannon is any measure...

There's a lot of anal going on in the White House.

[Sydnie]

14. Holy shit!

We have become the people that they want us to hate! I mean, we, the people of the US have now become the people that the people of the US want us to hate.

Self loathing is the name of the game folks. Make liberals hate themselves because of their labels, make gays hate themselves because of their labels, make whistleblowers hate themselves because of their labels, now make those that support you hate themselves because of the actions that will lead to new labels.

But you can be a "proud American" if you don't question what they say or do.

WAKE UP America!!! No more snooze button for you!

[blondeatlast]

58. Shock treatment is in order.

AKA, the truth about the Bush junta.

[nolabels]

18. There is no Saddam anymore though

The invaders are starting find the going a very up hill battle. The people on the ground in the area are finding strength in unity. They have been divided for years unnaturally by colonial powers. If and when they figure whats up, the odd man out will be the colonialists

[RevCheesehead]

40. Actually, I believe it was an X-Files episode that claimed...

Saddam Hussein never existed. He was some character actor in NJ, made up for scaring the American public.
(Maury, the Area 51 agent, who switched bodies with Mulder.)

[mattclearing]

44. The one with Michael McKean. That was funny. n/t

[nolabels]

118. The Trek it seems has done several out takes on that theme too

The old ones seemed better than the new ones to me for some reason. The image is just an image with no real substance, sort of like *


http://star-trek-tv-guides.fanspace.com/19910831.htm

Gosh, am I ever feeling old, they say 25 years of it and the date on the issue is 1991 yikes

[BrotherBuzz]

22. Indeed, We have become the butt plug.

Ignoranus R us.

[Gman]

54. Excellent

the butt plug option.

[Misunderestimator]

61. Great analogy...

gross... but great. The United States = Butt Plug to the Middle East.

[robertpaulsen]

69. I love it! "Nip evil...in the BUTT!"

How many degrees separates Saddam Hussein from Don Knotts?

Ask a hibernating bear.

[Donailin]

80. LOL

that's completely random, but funny.

[PsychoDad]

86. You put it so well Az...

This whole administration has been craming stuff up their ass since 2000.

Something's gotta give soon....

[xpat]

129. Maybe that's the real significance of Jeff Gannon. n/t

[geniph]

94. Well, since they're unquestionably full of shit,

that ANALogy works for me.

[ktowntennesseedem]

104. pResident Butt Plug - my new favorite name for *

[Tsiyu]

107. Az, that was astounding

The butt plug.

Damn.

[0rganism]

114. LOL! Amazing flash of insight! Of course it reminds me of a joke...

...that went something like this:

----
A team of researchers, for no obviously good reason, obtain a grant to study what happens to an elephant if it is prevented from defecating for a few weeks. So they place the unfortunate pachyderm in a large observation room with lots of tasty fibre-rich elephant food, and insert a very large cork into its anus. Thus, the elephant will not poop for a while, and presumably their report will be published in respectable zoological journals and they can renew their grant for further studies on other animals, and so on.

Having formed this hypothesis, one of the researchers points out that removing the cork could be a dangerous job, not fit for a pedigreed research scientist. Having numerous monkeys waiting in the wings for other experiments and a few weeks of uneventful elephant observation on their hands, the scientist who raised the concern opts to train one of the monkeys in the art of cork removal. He trains it to uncork wine bottles, unplug bathtub drains, unscrew lightbulbs, etcetera. By the time the experiment is winding up, the monkey will pull corks and plugs out of damn near anything.

On the big day, the elephant is looking sickly, very uncomfortable, extremely swollen, and more than a little bit pissed off. The monkey-trainer leads his monkey into the observation room, points it in the direction of the elephant's ass, and watches from what he deems to be a safe distance, 20 feet or so away, with a notebook ready. The monkey gracefully ascends the elephant's hindquarters, firmly grasps the cork with two hands, pulls with a counter-clockwise twist, and

KRAAAWHOOOSHBLAAAT!

The other scientists watching from the window are at something of a loss to explain what they see, but they do note that their colleague is potentially in danger from the raging brown tsunami and rush to his assistance. They open the air-tight door, and find him shoulder deep in foul-smelling turbulent elephant feces. With some effort, they pull him out the door and seal it hastily. One says sympathetically to his be-fouled co-worker, "You got hit pretty hard back there, huh?"

To which the scientist replies, "You think I had it tough? You should have seen the monkey trying to put the cork back in!"
----

Eh? Eh?

Ah well, like so many other things, it was funnier back in elementary school.

[Renew Deal]

132. lol

:yourock:

[leesa]

138. Either that or Georgie's going for Armageddon..that's always a possibility

Great anaology...very vivid!

[shadowknows69]

5. is any of our mainstream news sources?

roll the dice and take your pick. Incomprehensible as it is I could see this administration playing both sides of this conflict. As long as there are attacks and instability we're going to use that as an excuse to have troops there. If there isn't crisis to fuel the agenda. The agenda will create it. See 9/11 for a possible reference.

[JohnyCanuck]

19. NATO sponsored "terrorists" in Europe during the cold war.

So I would not be at all surprised with the revelation in the Asia Times article that the US is sponsoring a similar program today in Iraq.

The Pentagon's 'NATO Option'

<snip>

It all began during WWII when British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, ordered a secret army to be created to fight communism. Allen Dulles, the first chief of the CIA, worked out the original plan, and British MI6 and special forces teamed up with the CIA to train “stay- behind armies” in Western Europe to counter a possible Soviet invasion. It was all very James Bond - only grim - with forged passports, dead letter boxes, and parachute jumps over the channel, according to some of the trainees.

It turns out that what Washington meant by counter-terrorism, might often have been, well, terrorism.

Here’s the money part from one of the field manuals (FM 30-31B):

"...when the revolutionaries temporarily renounce the use of force ….US army intelligence must have the means of launching special operations which will convince Host Country Governments and public opinion of the reality of the insurgent danger…”

That’s to say, if there wasn’t any terrorism to speak of, the secret armies were prepared to get some going.

<snip>

As one of Gladio’s operatives said, “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security.” (my emphasis /jc)

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0210-22.htm

[LiberalVoice]

70. Think about this...

Who could possibly be our secret army? Aren't the Bushies and Bin Ladens tight? Kill 3000 americans and invade an oil rich country and drop american bases all over it. Perfect strategic placement.

[Colorado Blue]

37. Especially if there is money in it. Nothing like a war to...

funnel funds to your buddies in the war industry.

AAARRRRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[leftofthedial]

6. It wouldn't surprise me to learn the bushturd

neocon death cult is arming all the "insurgents"

It wouldn't be the first time they armed terrorist enemies of America.

[RaleighNCDUer]

74. We already know they did --

when they didn't secure the munitions dumps after the invasion.

[AlCzervik]

9. atimes=legit

[BlueEyedSon]

11. kick

[stevedeshazer]

12. kick and nominated for greatest page

We'll never hear this in the US snooze media.

[Skidmore]

15. So is this where the planeloads of money have disappeared

to that were discussed in those hearings today?

[arikara]

50. Bingo!

Billions of dollars that weren't counted or even weighed were flown out to nobody knows where. Money that should have gone to the reconstruction of Iraq... hospitals, schools, jobs... instead is being used to arm "insurgents". Oh the ugliness and foul smelling evil stench of this bunch is unbelievable.

[cthrumatrix]

16. this is how the sham is being played so we stay there longer and we

can rig the outcome....disgusting

[never cry wolf]

17. Could this be the "Salvador Option?"

Wrong group, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had "death squads" and mlitas on both factions.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4407

[UL_Approved]

111. My thoughts exactly

Did anybody here even once think that the U.S. was going to allow Iraq to get out of our hands?

Did we ever think that the U.S. was going to allow "free elections"?

Did we ever think that the U.S. was going to give up their little pets?

When the toaster and the microwave start an uprising in the kitchen, we just try to cash in on the warranty agreement. There was NEVER going to be an Iraqi controlled regime. We all knew that, but this states it clearly.

[ktowntennesseedem]

136. The "elections" were only window dressing for the folks back home!

That's why they stuck with the date regardless of the conditions on the ground. They were basically meaningless to the average Iraqi, didn't change anything, but it sure made good headlines back in the US!

[wishlist]

20. Rummy has talked about U.S. backed Iraqi special operations units

Rummy described the Iraqi forces being trained and sponsored by U.S. during his Meet the Press interview on Feb 6 with Tim Russert as follows:

"We have 136,000 Iraqi security forces, excluding the 70,000- plus in the site protection, and they are in the Ministry of Interior, the Ministry of Defense, and there's a lot of different types. Some are policemen and they walk a beat. Some are border patrol and they sit on a border in a patrol place. Others are in commando units and they operate in a region and go in on special assignments. Still others are in the regular army, and they're being trained for that type of function. A small number of them, as Dick Myers said, something like 40,000, are highly mobile, can move anywhere in the country and be sustained." (Quote from Donald Rumsfeld)

Wouldn't surprise me that some of these units are engaged in very questionable clandestine activities.

[shadowknows69]

24. I always thought

that there was a disproportionate number of attacks on the Iraqi citizens as opposed to our troops who you would think would be the main targets. It would be nothing for us to rig a remote controlled car bomb and roll it into a crowd or an Iraqi police station every other day. There were some tin foil stories about the people who were beheading captives and how they all looked to be in quite robust shape for seemingly hungry, constantly on the run, insurgents. In any conflict there's the war that's on the radar and then there's black ops. As we can see the rules on how we wage a "mainstream" war have begun to erode can you imagine the rules of engagement (if any) on the dark side?

[KansDem]

39. "...beheading captives ..."

How many beheadings have occurred since Nov. 2? I don't recall a single one in the 3 1/2 months since, yet there seemed to be one happening every other week or at least once a month before Nov. 2...

[blondeatlast]

60. Only one, and it was a fake.

Jesus Christ have mercy (I mean that lamentation sincerely, too), this is getting ugly.

[Warpy]

21. They're a little like Al Jazeera

Most of their stuf pans out. Some of it doesn't.

[Dhalgren]

25. Which puts them head and shoulders above our MSM...

[porkrind]

26. Am I understanding this right?

We are staging a covert ops to overthrow the very government we just had elections to install? Unf**kingbelievable. **AND**, we need another $86B to do it! When are the right-wingers going to learn? How many times can they be suckered to act against their own best interests?

[smoogatz]

28. Well...

P.T. Barnum said it best. And to paraphrase the Sage of Baltimore, nobody ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

[blondeatlast]

62. Apparently that's how they won this one. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. I'd really like an answer to that question.

Any lurking FReepers care to answer the question? How many times can you be suckered to act against your own best interests?

[Colorado Blue]

38. It's almost impossible for people raised in a patriarchal...

system, like most of the folks I suspect vote Republican, to believe that Dear Ol' Dad is capable of such foul deeds.

It's gonna take something really wrenching to get them to wake up. I have no idea what. But I wish they would - at least SOME of them - would get a clue and help us out here!

Calling Intelligent Republicans! We are in trouble!

[smoogatz]

27. So idiotic it must be true.

Only Bushco could orchestrate a war in which our military is now fighting itself. Viva Arbusto!

[lostnfound]

29. One step further than his father, who armed both sides of Iran-Iraq

while VP under Reagan.

[lockdown]

41. The US armed opposing sides in the Yugoslav Wars too

SOP it seems. As said, they want chaos and strife in Iraq to justify a continued occupation. If conflict widens beyond Iraq all the better.

So, the Pakistani conduit for false flag operations thrives to this day hmm? Well who could have imagined!

[Roland99]

30. It's right inline with colonialism...the British did it, now it's our turn

Now it emerges that there is a strong movement in southern Iraq for the establishment of autonomous Shi'ite provinces as a precursor to introducing vilayet-e-faqih (rule by the clergy) in the whole country.

Of these calls for autonomy or federalism, the most disconcerting for US authorities is the call for religious rule. Already, leading Shi'ite clerics in Iraq are pushing for "Islam to be recognized as the guiding principle of the new constitution".

From those paragraphs, it leads one to believe this is a separate movement afoot from the more fundamental elements of the south. That was always a sore spot for Saddam and may partially be why the British created Kuwait out of the Basra province (to restrict the then govt's access to the sea.)

Don't be surprised to see Pakistani and Indian troops used before long to suppress any uprisings.

[htuttle]

31. This would be a Negroponte "classic move", wouldn't it?

Forming unofficial death squads to spread terror to subvert a government? Classic Negroponte, right out of 1980's Latin America.

[Roland99]

32. And then Allawi and Chalabi would fit in nicely in a new Iraq

Since they're puppets, they'll keel over easily and allow foreign companies to rape Iraq of its natural resources. Sure, some Iraqis will get some jobs but the profits will end up *outside* of Iraq.

Then, the nationalists in Iraq will rise up, yet again, and the cycle will repeat for the umpteenth time.

[Fridays Child]

120. But Chalabi is siding with those who want autonomy in the Shi'ite South.

Unless he's playing both sides against the middle and the Pentagon still sees him as an asset, these new American-funded terrorists will probably be instructed to get him.

I suppose he could be a sort of canary in the coal mine, here. If he is assassinated, then the Asia Times is probably on to something.

In any case, everyone who warned that Iraq would soon descend into civil war, may see their forecasts come true.

[Roland99]

139. The south of Iraq was always a thorn in the side of

the British empire (that's why Britain carved Kuwait out of the Basra province...restricting access to the sea) and in Saddam Hussein. That sort of makes sense. But, I think Chalabi is just playing to the voices who would be the loudest in support of him (it's not like he could campaign with the Kurds).

[Capn Sunshine]

33. Maybe the missing 9 Billion

is being used to fund these roving death squads, a specialty of Negroponte's.

[Fridays Child]

121. This is a nightmare.

:scared:

[Old and In the Way]

35. The last thing this administration wants is a stable Iraq.

They will keep Iraq in a state of turmoil so they can justify their continued presence there.

If Iraq was to be able to stabilize and run a democratic government.....what would be the justification for us to remain?


It's all about the oil.

[libertypirate]

36. Or could it be a distraction. Always ask why is this being reported.

[robertpaulsen]

45. And always ask why MSM is IGNORING it.

[libertypirate]

47. or reporting it!

[robertpaulsen]

49. Absolutely. But in this case, they're ignoring it.

Or if the veracity of these claims are being investigated by MSM (LOL) we're being kept in the dark.

[ClintonTyree]

81. Hey, Michael Jackson's trial is coming up soon.....................

now what's more important to the American public? Remember, they think in 30 second sound bites. Something like this would.............take some thought! We can't have that.

The bush gang of criminals has the government so messed up it's hard to know where to start. Where would somebody start to explain the crimes of this administration and keep it cohesive? I don't think I could do it, where the hell would I start?

[robertpaulsen]

144. Oh goodee! I can't wait to see Corey Feldman testify!

You're so right, MSM exists solely as an entertaining form of distraction. God forbid the American public figures out what their priorities are.

I love your signature. Though I must amend that to say democracy has been in a coma since December 12, 2000.

[blondeatlast]

64. It isn't being reported here.

And I sincerely doubt it will be.

[bvar22]

42. If this is true,

(and I don't doubt it) these weapons, and these anti-Shiite (pro-Saddam) militias WILL COME IN CONTACT with American and British Troops.

Again, IF THIS IS TRUE,
bush* and the NeoCons are providing arms and support to groups that will be killing American and British troops!!

[whosinpower]

46. That is why -

I was asking how legitimate Asia times Online is...

If this is true, Bushco is playing both sides of the coin, off each other to keep the Iraq destabilized and insecure.

And, if this is true, then surely this is grounds for impeachment - reason - Treason and aiding and abetting the enemy.

And - I wonder if any MSM will have the balls to report this.....not likely.

[robertpaulsen]

43. "nip the evil in the bud"?! Is Barney Fife running this shit?

I'm really not surprised. Nothing but praise and waving purple fingers for SOTU, but when CIA stooge Allawi only gets 14% of the vote and Sistani starts talking about instituting Islamic law, suddenly we hear murmors on MSM about possible "fraud". And now, death squads. I guess that makes John Negroponte Barney Fife.

[Bluebear]

53. you said a mouthful friend

[MrModerate]

48. Even after all the years, it's hard for me to believe that . . .

Schimpanski is soooooo stupid.

If he gives guns to Baathists, clandestinely, it will come out. And then he's burnt toast.

[dogindia]

51. Lets sent every msm we know.

Wonder if it will get air.

[Chicago Democrat]

52. Holy Jesus! Save our country!

From the MONSTER! MONSTER BUSH!

[cthrumatrix]

77. we have been had... both sides have to know about this shit !

[Gman]

56. The Salvador Option

plain and simple.

[stanwyck]

59. considering U.S. relations/history in South America

this just doesn't seem that far-fetched.

[Swamp Rat]

63. Kick for the "Made in USA" butt plug. n/t

[Disturbed]

65. The Bush Junta are Fascists and

don't give a damn about Amerikans. The entire goal is to to control the ME and the rest of the world. It's about Globalization of Capitalism favoring Multi-Corps and the spread of Freedom. Freedom to rape the planet of resources and cheap labor.

btw the Nick Berg beheading was a Black Ops to offset the Abu Grahib Torture situation. Notice how it was used to counter that scandal.

[annabanana]

66. kick!! Too important to let slide..

How can you get someone to give this thread a more descriptive name?

[Straight Shooter]

67. Like everything else, bush thinks he can control the outcome.

He also believes that money will buy silence. Somebody out there is playing him for a fool, and waiting for the right time to expose the United States to the world.

This is bigger than Iran/Contra. The whole world protested the invasion of Iraq. But bush went ahead and defied everyone. Look at this mess we're in.

I can think of no one on earth for whom I have greater contempt than the squatter in the Oval Office. He just doesn't give a rat's a**.

[cthrumatrix]

68. kick

[NEOBuckeye]

115. This is much, MUCH more than Bush by himself could ever handle

Bush is a little bit smarter than what we usually give him credit for here, but not by much.

There are a LOT of people in on this, Dick CHENEY far from being the least of them. I'd wager that Bush's father, George Herbert Walker, his right hand man James Baker, and their whole clique (think CARLYLE) are in on this. And these are just the people we can see. We're talking a major Mob-style, clandestine corporate-political network here, so far-reaching, with its' corruption-laden tentacles in so many governments around the world, reaching into so many aspects of our lives, it would make your head spin, were the truth ever somehow beaten bloody over the head with a stick and dragged out into the light of day.

To expose and bring down this monstrosity made and maddened by money and power would literally mean the collapse of the United States and British governments at least, the crash of the global economy, and unprecedented upheaval, ferment, chaos and anarchy unknown in our times -- or any other time in recorded history for that matter. I honestly don't know what it is going to take to bring this all about, though I suspect that peaking and declining Oil reserves is going to give this "great unraveling" one big push.

[Anakin Skywalker]

71. Just How Dumb are the Neo-Cons?

Ah hah hah hah! I wonder how the chickenhawksh*ts are gonna spin their way out of this one.

[dweller]

72. from the article

"But with Shi'ite religious parties emerging as the strongest power, no
sooner were the elections over than voices were raised for the
creation of an autonomous southern Iraqi region, and for
vilayet-e-faqih ".

can someone translate that last term?

it's used more than once, but i can't garner the definition.

dp

[da_chimperor]

131. vilayet-e-faqih = Iranian-style theocracy/kinda, sorta, democracy

So they would have elections, but a supreme council of clerics could basically do as they wished. That's how it is in Iran, anyhow.

[chicagiana]

154. Even stronger ..

Even stronger is the desire for the Kurdish north to be autonomous and independent. In that case, it's only a matter of how the Kurds and Shi-ites will carve up the Sunni triangle and extract their revenge.

[annabanana]

78. kick!! Too important to let slide......n/t

[Donailin]

79. kick

[ourbluenation]

kicking

and sick to my stomache at the same time.

[DemonFighterLives]

82. Very Bush/Rumsfeld/Negroponte of them

US is now having it's own civil war over there and the troops don't even know it.
We should get out now. CNN announcing that UN wants to help out there now. I'm sure bu*sco will have none of it.
I wonder is anyone in Washington would listen if you showed them how insane "they" are.

[Ellie of Amherst]

84. I have cited Asia Times

many times in writing labor rights reports on abuses in Southeast Asia.

[FlyingIrishman]

85. It's funny

I remember when the whole Iran/Contra bit hit the fan; I was a little tike and I was uber pissed because the major networks cut into my afternoon cartoons so they could show Ollie North being grilled. Now I'm sitting here praying that this is true so that they can cut into my afternoon cartoons and show Rummy in the hot seat...oh please oh please oh please.

[cthrumatrix]

89. we need more eyes and bloggers on this stuff (drip drip drip)

[PROGRESSIVE1]

87. ......................

[bush_is_wacko]

90. The same way they funded Saddam's genocide and gave him WMD's in

the first place.

Saddam led to his own destruction by getting rid of those WMD's or allowing them to be hidden from public view. Of course then again he knew if they found them he would at least temporarily validate baby bush and I'm sure he didn't want to do that.

I don't sympathize with the tyrant in the least but it is kind of insane to remove a tyrant that YOU gave weapons to. Of course that is US policy in these situations. Provide them weapons, frame the hell out of them, and then blow them up!

I hear he (Saddam) has been quite a pill with all his talk about the US involvement in his extermination of Iranians and Kurds. He will NEVER be allowed anywhere near a camera, or tape recorder.

[merh]

91. What is so sad is - this doesn't surprise me in the least!

They are without souls, so why wouldn't they arm the resistance that is killing our soldiers? :shrug:

[northamericancitizen]

96. Keep on Kicking

[dweller]

95. i sent the link to a left wing radio pesonality,

yep, Big Eddie, asking him to comment upon it. Asked him if it were true that *moron was arming the Iraqi insurgency?

i wonder if he will touch it...even if he disagrees.

:kick:

dp

[merh]

97. Glad you sent it on - thanks!

:hi:

[wadestock]

98. FACTS

1. Bush has to keep the war going indefinitely to make sure we are all on edge, so we are distracted...so that tax breaks for the rich can be further promoted.

2. Peace in the Middle East would be a disaster for the Bush administration...it means we can't stay in the area...can't promote the formation of US military bases, and can't get dibs on the 2nd largest oil reserver in the world.

What you see now in Iraq will be approximately the same or worse by 2008.

[cthrumatrix]

128. you are correct ....he can't stay in Iraq if there is PEACE

[Selteri]

99. OMFG

This is... more than I would have ever imagined, the perfect form of perpetual war as described in 1984 since both the army and the insurgencts are being run by the same master organization in the end.

And I though reading Macheavele, 1984 and other books had some intensely scary ideas that the Bush administration has left far in the dust for how perverted they have taken this if this story is 100% true.

Simply stated, the Bush administration said 'why trust someone else' for this perpetual war of thiers so they are running it themselves. What hubris.

[Gloria]

100. Asia Times is solid. I use it often in the World Media Watch

eom

[muchacho]

101. hypocrisy

This is some of that "moral relativism" the Right has been whining about pouring from the Liberal colleges for the last decade.

[Disturbed]

102. "The ends justify the means ."

This has been and will be Govt. policy. Troops are "fungable" (Expendible). This is not surprising to me, in the least. Those who think that Iraq was invaded out of some whim are seriously mistaken. The U.S. Govt. will never give up on this prize and that includes most the Dems in Congress. Nothing will come of this story. No one will touch it.

[muchacho]

130. History repeats

Didn't we go through this in Afghanistan? Didn't we learn from arming and networking the Majahadden to fight our battles?

[Maguzzi]

103. My First Post

Hi DU

[annabanana]

105. Hello Maguzzi!

Welcome to DU :toast:
You may have made your first post on what will be some historic stuff. (When the whole truth comes out)

[McCamy Taylor]

106. WTF! We are arming Sadams troops to overthrow the elected guys?

:wtf:

Who in Congress do we email this to? I guess I start with Kerry.

[annabanana]

110. kinda looks that way, or something like it

The article says that some ex-Saddamite have no "loyalty" remaining to the man, just to the political structure.... Of course with "black ops" nothing really matters except "the ends"....

[RDL]

109. Might be disturbing

but it sure ain't suprising. This is SOP for these fucks.

[Divine Discontent]

112. Heaven help us, our Congress sure as hell isn't...

Why is this cache of weapons being given to the very same people we've been fighting, in essence, 'terrorists'? Won't these weapons be used to kill our own troops days from now? Haven't we learned any lessons?

I don't believe we STILL fully understand the bee's hive we've entered, and if these people want vilayet-e-faqih (rule by the clergy), they're gonna get it, or, we're going to have to kill millions of Shi'ites to stop them. I don't advocate that occurring and saying, "Mission Accomplished" all those months ago showed why the war plans concerning the region & religion were suspect, as Gen. Wesley Clark states.

It's as if the U.S. couldn't find WMD's, so we decided to make this about democratic elections, but now, we're not happy about who the people of Iraq voted for because these individuals want Islam to be the guiding rule of law in huge Iraqi Provinces since they received the most votes, and so we're going to do whatever it takes to have things our way, but at what costs? The people I know who are there, and who've been there, and those who've died and will die, deserve better than this. I don't want my gov't supplying the terrorists with any more weapons, like they did Hussein for 20 years and my friends, family, and fellow citizens being placed in harm's way with misguided military precision.

[Learning2Fly]

113. We've just dusted off the old "playbook"

Mohammad Mosaddeq and the 1953 Coup in Iran (Syracuse University Press, 2004)


"On the morning of August 19, 1953, a crowd of demonstrators operating at the direction of pro-Shah organizers with ties to the CIA made its way from the bazaars of southern Tehran to the center of the city. Joined by military and police forces equipped with tanks, they sacked offices and newspapers aligned with Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddeq and his advisers, as well as the communist Tudeh Party and others opposed to the monarch. By early afternoon, clashes with Mosaddeq supporters were taking place, the fiercest occurring in front of the prime minister's home. Reportedly 200 people were killed in that battle before Mosaddeq escaped over his own roof, only to surrender the following day. At 5:25 p.m., retired General Fazlollah Zahedi, arriving at the radio station on a tank, declared to the nation that with the Shah's blessing he was now the legal prime minister and that his forces were largely in control of the city.

Although official U.S. reports and published accounts described Mosaddeq's overthrow and the shah's restoration to power as inspired and carried out by Iranians, this was far from the full story. Memoirs of key CIA and British intelligence operatives and historical reconstructions of events have long established that a joint U.S.-British covert operation took place in mid-August, which had a crucial impact. Yet, there has continued to be a controversy over who was responsible for the overthrow of the popularly elected Mosaddeq, thanks to accounts by, among others, former Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and Zahedi's son, who later became a fixture in the Shah's regime. Those versions of events virtually ignored the possibility that any outside actors played a part, claiming instead that the movement to reinstate the Shah was genuine and nationwide in scope.

Among the book's main conclusions is that Iranians and non-Iranians both played crucial parts in the coup's success. The CIA, with help from British intelligence, planned, funded and implemented the operation. When the plot threatened to fall apart entirely at an early point, U.S. agents on the ground took the initiative to jump-start the operation, adapted the plans to fit the new circumstances, and pressed their Iranian collaborators to keep going. Moreover, a British-led oil boycott, supported by the United States, plus a wide range of ongoing political pressures by both governments against Mosaddeq, culminating in a massive covert propaganda campaign in the months leading up to the coup helped create the environment necessary for success."

[ablbodyed]

137. Stunningly ironic but TRUE>>>>

Norman Schwarzkopf's father was the CIA head-of-station controlling the entire operation. Interbred thugs, all of them.

[TeeYiYi]

116. Legit. ..n/t

TYY :kick:

[candu]

117. U.S. against clerics

Why did it take two weeks to count the ballots? Did in not seem like they were trying to manipulate the votes so nobody has any real power?The Shia had the most votes since they were told to do so; much like the pope telling Catholics what to do do. They should have had more than 52% because overall turnout was abysmal and the numbers were fudged. Sistani is Iranian and favours an Islamic State. He forced the election and not Bush. If Bush thinks he can stop him, he is in for a rude shock. If the Shia do not get their way, there will be another uprising, much like 1923 against the British. I can't imagine the U.S. to be able to quell the genuine wishes of the Iraqis and can't see a civil war either because the U.S. is hated first and foremost. Also training Iraqi troops in U.S.methods is stupid; how can they expect them to shoot their own people? How can an Administration be so awfully ignorant?:crazy:

[bdot]

119. Afghanastan

It talks about the simular strategy used in Afghanastan in the 80's.
Isn't that when Osama was funded by the US?

Never ending circle of death?

[marcologico]

122. If ever there was an argument against "intelligent design," this is it.

Are these guys trying to blow our cash and credibility or what?!

[marcologico]

124. p.s. In a "democracy," majority rules. Majority of voters are Shiite. DUH

This war is so lame it hurts to think about it.

[Patriot Acts]

123. I dont see what the big deal is...

...I could have told you the same thing two years ago. History does seem to repeat itself.

[marcologico]

125. No, this level of cluelessness has got to be unprecedented. n/t

[ima_sinnic]

126. kicking. to keep the ugly truth at the top (n/t)

[LibertyorDeath]

127. "nip the evil in the bud".

:kick::kick::kick:

[LiberalVoice]

134. kick

[radwriter0555]

135. In other words, the US will arm those who support the regime THEY wanted

in power, in iraq.

Which is NOT the Clerics.

Get it?

The bush style version of democracy IS NOT WANTED IN IRAQ.

[annabanana]

141. Apparently, we will arm almost anyone at any given time...

regardless of who they are shooting at. If I let myself think about our kids over there, being shot at by guns we supplied in this cynical maneuver, I will just be too pissed to even function.

[radwriter0555]

143. Hey, for people with no ethics, as in the bush regime, profits have

priority over the constituency, voters, humans, women, children AND puppy dogs. It makes no difference to them. Money and power are priority over EVERYTHING.

The general populace is too fukcing stupid to know better, much less be pissed. The general populace is too busy being utterly and pathetically apathetic and brainwashed.

[V Lee]

145. So in America they're fighting to merge Church and State ...

... while in Iraq they're fighting to separate them.

So is Church=State good, or is Church=State bad?

I'm so confused ...

[tom_paine]

148. Only THE PARTY Church is OK...all others are the Enemy of Big Bushler

There. Was that DoublePlus Good?

Church = State is Double Plus Good when it's the New and Improved PARTY Church of Bushler Worship.

Church = State is UnGood or even DoublePlus UnGood when Big Brother Bushelr or the Designated PARTY Pundits tell us.

Report to Room 101.

[realFedUp]

146. Their "insurgent" is your freedom fighter

oy.

[bigtree]

149. This was predictable

The U.S. cannot couch in with the Shia majority so it will have to employ the former wedge that they used for years to keep the Iranian connected Shi'ites down. Batthists were our government's allies for years. Saddam was nothing more than a nuisance in that relationship. The entire manufactured conflict was nothing more than an ego trip for junior Bush. Now we will be forced to endure a backward ass cleanup of a problem created by BushI with his tolerance of Saddam as a wedge against Iran, and the mindless, ignorant meddling of Junior which rearranged the chessboard, involved our country more deeply in the religious/political mess there, and exposed our troops and our future to decades of retaliation and retribution.

Anyone who believes that the 'election' served U.S. interests would have to believe that our government secretly wanted Iran to take over Iraq, despite our well-documented assistance to Iraqis during their clashes along the Iraq/Iran border. (Not so far-fetched since the no-fly zone effectively protected the southern Shi'ite community against aggression against Saddam.) But our actions make more sense when viewed in the context of our government's corporatist greed for oil, in Kuwait, in the Kurdish provinces, and in Iran as well.

[Me.]

150. I Bet It Is True

Judith Miller was on Tweety a week or so ago and she casually mentioned how Chalabi had been approached by US about taking a high position in the new government. Tweet called her on it and asked how could they be placing people in government positions when the election hadn't even been decided. She just shrugged and let it dropped Evan after Tweety came after her a couple of times about it.

[CAcyclist]

151. Is chaos the goal here?

There are Christian Iranians in the US waiting and planning for the "opening up" of Iran.
I know because I accidentally used a secondary email address that one of these people had had, so I got a bunch of emails directed to this person.

If we do to Iran what we did to Iraq and stateside Iranians vote in Iran's new US controlled elections, could a Christian faction have a chance to seize power in Iran?

[annabanana]

152. not gonna happen.

Iran is MUCH bigger and stronger and more unified than Iraq (a made-up country to start with) ever was.

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. Is there any new news on this topic?

This seems like it would be big news in the MSM.

What am I saying?