Why Gannongate matters.

[Hamlette]

It's NOT that he's gay. It's NOT that he's a ho. It's that he's a plant.

Don't lose focus.

We need to be screaming about propaganda Bush style. We need to be saying:

"How can you believe anything you read in the papers or see on the news anymore? It's all bought and paid for government propaganda.

If it were true, reporters would report it for free. You only need to buy reporters when what you want them to say is not true. You lie to people for one of two reasons: the people won't like the truth or you don't trust them with the truth. Doesn't the government trust me with the truth? Is the government hiding something?

It's bad enough that politicians lie to us but now politicians are buying reporters to lie to us too. That's what I hate when I see government getting too big. Too big means they control too much of my life. If the press isn't free how are we different than the old Soviet Union or Iraq where the government controlled what information the people could get. This is the kind of big government we need to be worried about.

Keep saying it. Don't say "Bush" or "Republicans" or "this administration". Just say "government" or "big government". Tie it in to Armstrong Williams.

If we can get people to think Fox is lying to them, that's half the battle. If they mention "Rather" mention "Williams and Gannon" and say at least Rather reported what he thought was true. The GOP had to pay money to Williams and Gannon (supposedly) to get them to help the "cause".

[K-W]

1. This is not big government, this is corruption.

Big government? Why would we want to recycle Republican nonsense-terms that helped to tear down liberalism.

[coloradodem2005]

2. Good post.

You're right. We need to master the language too.

[Rockerdem]

17. Why?? So we can talk to ourselves?

Ive been thinking about this for the last few hours. Barring some major new development on the main river, all we are doing is paddling around on a small tributary. Right where the WH and the MSM want us. And that tribuatary is narrowing down fast.

There hasnt been one mention in all the broadcast programs that Ive been monitoring. The "paid media" media story is 2-3 weeks old, and the porno angle wont be touched by any corporate reporter or talking head.

Either Gannon is involved with a criminal act with a WH person/group, or this thing is dead. The window of opportunity to make further hay is about shut. Somehow he has to be both guilty and be forced to talk. If either is a whiff, its on to something else.

IMHO

[LondonAmerican]

3. this is the same kind of stuff

that the wh did when it paid off pundits to flack for them. in this case it's just a bit funnier since the guy literally is a prostitute whereas the others were just figuratively.

but it's about the wh setting up a covert propaganda operation. that is scary, nasty stuff.

[cthrumatrix]

4. that IS the story --- It's more Factual Evidence of Propaganda

this WH has been caught several times pumping the propaganda

[BurtWorm]

5. That's a good idea.

Make it about "the government." Everyone hates "the government!"

It really is about how low our standards have fallen. We don't expect truth from the government. We don't demand it. We expect PR and we that's all we get.

[K-W]

10. How is repeating right wing talking points a good idea?

The idea that government is a dangerous wasteful mess that should be limited is completely against everything that is liberalism.

This isnt about the government, this is about the people in our government and our society who are corrupting the system.

[Hamlette]

11. ok, say "its not big government I fear, its dishonest government"

and I'll drop the gate...whatever.

[K-W]

13. Its an important destinction.

Conservatives attack the idea of government. They do this because it keeps us from using the government as, when it is functioning properly, the only legitimate authority in society to advance social justice.

We must be clear that we have problems with the corruption and flaws of our government, not that we hate government. Because without the government our rights are not protected and our economy cannot be regulated.

[BurtWorm]

15. It's not about "wasteful government." It's about a lying government.

It's a good idea in the sense that it isn't partisan. The Brits refer to whoever is in charge as "the government." That's the sense I mean it. I'm imagining a shift in the way of framing (if you will) the argument against the Bushists, which half the country cuts slack because of their party affiliation, to the government (in the British sense). You shouldn't have to be a Democrat to be outraged by this government's habit of lying to further its agenda. Unfortunately, only Democrats really do seem capable of outrage over it.

Of course I don't believe all government is evil.

[K-W]

18. Right, but you are playing into a powerful right wing talking point.

Im not saying you think government is bad, im saying that reinforcing thier talking points in an attempt to reframe ours would be a mistake.

Sorry, but the idea of big government is massively partisan.

[BurtWorm]

22. Big government has nothing to do with it.

I hear what you're saying, and you may be right, but the point is, we're talking about those people on the other side of the divide from all of us outside the administration. You don't have to defend them just because they're in your political party. Know what I mean?

[Caution]

6. please no more "gate" stuff. it's old, tired and never made any sense

Just call it "Penetration of the Media Whore"

[cthrumatrix]

7. remember the Soc Sec office was sick of having to "lie"

they testfied and "whisltle blew" on the WH


It's all propaganda.

[Ilsa]

8. "Gannon" claimed he was being threatened and harassed,

presumably by "libruls". I don't believe him. I wish we could find out more about that also.

Yes, the fact that he is a plant is a really big deal. It is proof that they lie and want to control the message getting out to the public.

I hope this story stays forward.

[goodhue]

9. yes indeed

Its the propaganda not the prostitution that matters.

[Zan_of_Texas]

21. Depends.

Okay. We have:

-- the plant aspect, with JG parroting administration talking points in his questions and articles.

-- the fake name aspect, and the pass, AND getting called on, including by the president

-- the Valerie Plame aspect, with JG having access to a memo no one else had access to, months ago

-- the silence or lack of curiosity of the rest of the White House press corps, none of whom blew the whistle on this guy -- left it to the internet researchers to do so

-- the involvement in gay wesbites


The reason the gay websites (is prostitution proven?) are important is if the reason JG had access to White House officials and classified info is BECAUSE of his activity as a gay man or his procurement of paid gay male prostitutes for someone in the White House. I have seen no proof of that, but the possibility is dangling.

ON EDIT: Ok. I see some rather persuasive stuff that would lead me to believe JG was or is indeed a gay male prostitute. $1200 for a weekend, complete with all the particulars as to weight, size, etc. Here is the Americablog link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads

[Malva Zebrina]

12. The approach to Gannon

and I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever had anything to do with lawsuits,nor have I ever been in the position to employ a lawyer, might be, from my perspective, to get him on income tax evasion, get the evidence, get the records of his phone calls which would implicate a lot of people, offer him a deal, whereby he would spill the beans, to use a crummy cliche, in order to avoid being imprisoned.

It would of course take some smart progressive lawyer to do that and see it to it's end.

my two cents for what it is worth

[vicman]

14. Do remember...

though, that the escort stuff came to light only because of the work of a few people who were simply trying to find out just who the hell this guy was. And it wasn't difficult to find at all. While I agree with you that the corruption angle on this needs to be hammered first, the seamy side of this is also part of the story. How does it all fit? How does it tie together? Why was Gannon/Guckert given this access and not someone with less immediately discernable baggage? Why was Bernie Kerik allowed to get as far into the public eye as he did? What the hell's going on inside the Bush White House?

The following link brings up yet other considerations. This has happened before, folks...

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/stirring-white-house-honey-pot.html

[Disturbed]

19. The GW Bush Govt. Coruption

Possibly even treason. That is what this story is about. The Corp. Media are desperately trying to bury this story because it could also implicate them in the Govt. Coruption.

[leftofthedial]

16. a plant and a traitor

and the recipient of above top secret government documents that resulted in the loss of a major anti-terrorism intelligence asset.

[justiceischeap]

20. Why this is important to me

For me the point is this:

Within a week (I think I have the timeline correct) bloggers with little more than the internet were able to uncover all this information about Gannon / Guckert. Why didn't the FBI pick up on any of this? It's no wonder the FBI fell down when it came to 9-11. That is the talking point for me. If the FBI, with all its resources cannot find out Gannon's past, then what else are they not finding out about.

Another thing for me is, if they did find out about it, on who's request did they cover it up or sweep it under the rug? Something is rotten in Denmark folks and it's not that this guy was/is a male escort. That's just the proof that somethings not legit and we need to keep hammering on it.

[Ilsa]

23. Also need a rundown on all the "Gannons" Bush knows, since he

mentioned "the Gannons" in one of his Crawford press conferences. I wonder if it is the same man.