Clark appears to be winning the primary for Vice President, but. . .

[wndycty]

. . .there is none! In my life I have never seen so many people pick a Vice President so early. So many people want him to run for VP, but you don't run for VP in the primary, which leads me to see a very very encouraging trend for Clark supporters.

Every time someone says he'd make a great VP they are giving him a vote of confidence, and the man has not even thrown his hat in the race yet. If the majority of supporters of other candidates like him as a VP, that actually means he has the most support, especially when you factor in how many people want him to the lead the ticket!

So I want you all to consider something, if he is the leading VP candidate without even announcing, imagine what he can do as a candidate. Once he comes out as a candidate and defines who he is, he might run to the front of the pack.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. Dean and Kerry want Clark as VP because the can't win without him

But Clark doesn't need either one of them to win. Clark is 100 times better than both of them. Clark negates any advantage Kerry has for his veteran status, and Clark can appeal to the base and the independents and Republicans more than Dean can.

Clark's a no-brainer for the Democratic party, not only can he beat Bush, but he can win us a new generation of "Clark Republicans" and put us in the majority for a long time.

[StopTheMorans]

2. "once he comes out"

and when was the last time someone with NO political experience (i.e. senate, governorship, house, etc..., not talking NATO) was nominated for President? People use the "no northern liberal has won since JFK" so I only think it's fair to say "no military brass has ever won since Eisenhower". What are your thoughts on this? That's one reason (among many others) why I consider (notice, I'm saying it's my opinion, not fact) Clark as a VP candidate at best. Thoughts?

[wndycty]

5. No argument here. . .

. . .as a Clark supporter I kind of enjoy all the VP talk because it shows how attractive to a wide variety of Democrats. He is really the only one who has a consensus, AND HE IS NOT EVEN AN ANNOUNCED CANDIDATE! As time goes on and as candidates drop out, all of those who like Clark as running mate for their candidate who dropped out will most likely switch their support to Clark.

[StopTheMorans]

6. to that I would say

"Very Wishful Thinking", but good luck to you anyways:)

[Starpass]

16. stopthe---it was also conventional wisdom that

presidential elections couldn't be stolen and decided by teh Singing Supremes, too. It's a new world out there. As our lovely repuke friends tell us, it's a new world since 9/11----enter the protective uniform of a 4 star general.

[StopTheMorans]

17. I only cited CW b/c it is invoked relentlessy in every

presidential election, and just b/c this is the first one since 9/11 it doesn't change the fact that people will tirelessly invoke the CW. My personal thoughts are that you are right, I really believe that Dean can win even though a northerner hasn't since JFK, and he is a brash northerner (label him liberal if you would like). Your feelings are that Clark can win even though a General hasn't won since Eisenhower. Well, I guess we'll both see if the CW holds true this year:)

[wndycty]

18. Pre 9/11 I think Dean could have won. . .

. . .but after 9/11 I think the swing voters who are needed to win an election will make security a big issue. I am not sure how much you know about Gen. Clark, but he is very progressive on the domestic issues that often define Democrats.

[StopTheMorans]

19. oh I have read every damn thing on "the General" out there

and if you look at the most recent polls, the security thing is swinging in Dean's favor. He did a great job last night of saying that he would address the economy, but always addressed security first. And the most recent poll that I say in today's globe stated that 45% of people think that it was the wrong decision to go into Iraq. So Dean (as well as Clark) looks good in this situation, and the numbers keep swinging in his favor. He looks smart for opposing the war b/c the same number of people think that the war increased terrorism. The Dean/security thing is a non-issue in my book:)

[wndycty]

20. A sincere question about the Dean swing. . .

. . .is that amongst all voters or Democrats. We have a responsibility of nominating someone who can win in the general election. At the Clark meet-ups we get a lot of people who like Dean, and even considered themselves supporters, who are now backing Clark because they are afraid that Dean cannot attract the swing/crossover voters. Its amazing but you would be amazed how many people who are vote Repuke would be willing to support Clark if he ran. I am not saying anything against Dean, I just am curious is that swing for Dean from all voters or just Democrats?

[StopTheMorans]

22. the swing, my friend, the beauty of the dean movement

is that it is made up of a large percentage (at least at meetups, where I think it counts, not on a progressive website where support can be expected) of people who have never voted dem before. There are many greens, I've met 2 former pukes, and most significantly, I've met more people than I can name who have never voted before b/c of alienation/disinterest. These are the "swing voters", heck, these are even better than swing voters, we're bringing lots of new voters into the fold. Two of the people I met last week said that they don't really know much about politics, they just watched the Dean speech in NYC at the end of the sleepless summer tour at the behest of one of their friends (a deaner) and were immediately taken with his sincerity and his anger at how wrong things have gone. So to answer your question, Dean is not just making inroads among rich white dems, he is pulling in all kinds of votes from all over the place, which is another reason I like him.

[wndycty]

24. Well Clark has that too. . .

. . .at the last meet-up on Monday we had a couple Greens, a few Republicans and even a PEROT supporter. I think this is something we will let playout and see what happens.

[StopTheMorans]

25. notice I haven't really criticized you:)

I appreciate that, and it's one reason why I will give Clark some serious consideration when and if he is ever a candidate. I think it's great that he can do that as well, like I said, best of luck to ya, in a half a year, more than likely, we'll both be on the same team one way or another:)

[Clark Can WIN]

26. The evil freakin' trolls and imps

hiding under Bush's bridge haven't gotten ahold of them yet either. I believe those 4 stars are going to give Wesley Clark teflon. I don't see how Dean can hold up on that issue against Rove. I like Dean but I'm afraid that he is just what the republican evil dream team is looking for. He's great for us, because we're all pissed as hell. But for the average Larry and Judy out there, just a little scary. They want warm and safe right now. The Dean/security thing is not an issue yet because right now the Republicans don't have to campaign against any of us. They just roll Bush around the country and suck up money, letting us campaign against ourselves, but the Dean/security thing, if he gets the nom.......... it'll be BIG.

[StopTheMorans]

28. think you're wrong

you're entitled to your opinion, but if people keep questioning shrub on natl. security (his ratings get worse every month), it won't be the issue that every thinks it will be. It will be an issue, for sure, but it will be like every other issue; i.e. people will be able to compare the candidate to shrub on the issue, and he will fall flat on his simean face. It will be an issue, but Shrub has mishandled it so badly that Rove and Co. won't even use the flight suit pic, they're afraid too. Any candidate (make that, any front-runner) can beat * on security, like I said, 45% of people think the war was wrong. That leaves * wide open to criticism on natl. security from anyone, including Dean.

[Clark Can WIN]

30. Well best of luck to both of us

I like Clark, Dean and Kerry in that order. I like other candidates also but that ends the list of candidates I think have a prayer of winning in the big one, and that's the one that matters. I just happen to like Clark a little more, and believe that he would have the ability not just to win, but to win in a humiliating landslide against Bush. I want to see Bush not just beaten, but humiliated, and I don't want to give them any chance of stealing it again. I want to win this time.

again, good luck to us both :hi:

[Mz Pip]

3. We'll know by the end of next week

I'd love to see him jump into the race but can certainly understand the hesitancy. He seems to have a pretty good life without the added grief and stress of a campaign.

I don't know how anyone "runs" for VP. I don't recall Lieberman "running" last time or Cheney for that matter. I don't think people really vote for who is the VP candidate that much anyway. People who voted for Gore because of Lieberman probably would have voted for Gore anyway.

MzPip
:dem:

[RamboLiberal]

4. The Economist said Dean and Clark should run as a ticket

I still think that would be the best ticket and I have no preference which man is on the top of the ticket.

[Born_a_Democrat]

7. I doubt that he would be bigger as Candidate than as VP contender

Why?

1. No political experience at all (all the current front runners do no matter how small)

2. Too late in the race (if most people in the US don't recognize the Dems that have been campaigning for months how will they know Clarke's face?)

3. Campaign Funds (many people have already endorsed, and given money, to one Dem or another and those who haven't are just waiting for the winner of the current field...)


4. Message...he currently has none (or a very small one compared to Dean)...


In my opinion...if Dean won the nomination Clark would be his VP (after all they are good friends) and with Clarke on the ticket I don't think Bush would stand a chance...

[wndycty]

8. Again as a Clark supporter I appreciate your support for Clark as VP

Because it will help him secure the nomination.

[Terwilliger]

9. I'll reserve judgement on Clark until he runs

frankly he should just say he's running already

[CentristDemocrat]

10. Frankly, he's doing the smart thing.

[StopTheMorans]

12. if he keeps this up,

he's going to "do the smart thing" himself right out of the running for President if that's what he wants. I've heard it said time and again by Clark supporters that he's going to announce on such and such a date. For the whole summer, it was "by labor day", now it's this date. Reminds me of the people who always claim that a date will be the end of the world, and when they're wrong, they miscalcuted:) Not a serious knock, don't take it that way, I just will reserve any judgment on the general until he announces. And Wndycty, to keep assuming that b/c people don't think Clark has the creds for pres. and support him as a VP means that they will support him as our nominee for Pres. is a far-fetched argument. It's like saying that someone everyone likes for head of the EPA who has great environmental creds. automatically would be supported for the presidential nomination. IMHO, it's a tough argument to make:)

[wndycty]

14. It is a tough argument to make. . .

. . .but I believe in Clark enough to make the argument. If he does not have the credentials to be president he should not really be considered for the vice presidency (he would after all be one heart beat away from the presidency).

Unlike the projected Labor Day announcement which cam out of the mouths of us Clark supporters, Clark himself has come out and said he would make an announcement by next week. It is well known he has a 9/19 speech at the University of Iowa which will be a great place to kick off his campaign.

[StopTheMorans]

15. fair enough...

good reply, although I think that MANY a VP has not had what it would take (Quayle is one that obviously sticks in my mind), and people assume that a VP will not have to have the creds. a pres. nominee would have going in (hence, they can get some on the job training). Just my thoughts. ANd the Sept. 19th speech would be the right time for Clark, my personal beliefs are any time later than that would be getting way too late to make an impact. Just my thoughts:)

[wndycty]

11. Its strategy. . .

. . .he has gotten more press (most of it positive) than he would have as one of 9 candidates. And when he announces he will be the focus for at least a week before things settle down. The anticipation of his potential run works to his advantage. Its a smart strategy and he is smart to announce next week.

[robbedvoter]

13. He is defining the race before even joining it.

Everyone is already comparing themselves to him (the VP line is the benign way of doing it)

[Clark Can WIN]

21. Interesting point KoKo

I like your thinking here. Soon some of the campaigns will be running out of money and dropping out, just when Clark is building his momentum. His acceptance as a possible VP is after all acceptance, and as you have stated, he's not officially begun his run. We must also not forget the still ENORMOUS pool of voters who are not decided yet, for many of them the primaries haven't even hit thier radar screens yet. Most of them seem to vote on a combination of policy and personality (of course who doesn't) but they will be introduced to Clark while he is on the way up, with momentum. Fabulous.

[wndycty]

23. Hey I want my credit. . .

. . .and I love KoKo, but I started this thread dammit! LOL

[Clark Can WIN]

29. Uuups.......... Sorry

And the credit goes to........... WNDYCTY :yourock:

[wndycty]

31. Thanks. . . .

. . .I have been offline for a bit and I was hoping you would give me my proper credit. . .LOL!

[lindashaw]

27. And anytime a union keeps their powder dry...

Union Awaits Clark's Decision on Run

WASHINGTON - One of the nation's politically powerful labor unions is willing to delay its endorsement process as it awaits word from Wesley Clark on whether he will seek the Democratic presidential nomination

"I think we would owe it to our members and to the country really, to at least let him be in it for a time to see whether he gets some traction," Gerald McEntee, president of the 1.5 million-member American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, said Tuesday. "I don't see how our union would be prepared to do anything until he has some time."


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030910/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_labor_1